Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

Icsics

Any word on the SC meeting?

JakeSisko1980

Asti on a hiding to nothing. Sorry to say that but its true. Unless as some posters here have said you strike for along time then really what do you think will happen? Do you think the Department cares that you aint doing Croke park hours?

They might care about s and s withdrawal .
When they hit the redundancy button-watch Ed byrne fly into Marlborough street for another tweak and one more push to get this over the line.
I know the New JC is a ton of manure but you aint going to reverse it


I voted Yes and will again.

acequion

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Yes, we have increased our availability under the s&s scheme up to 43 hours and across 5 periods a week, but come September you cant honestly say someone is taking a pay cut by not doing it.

Nurses were given additional work, which if they didn't take on they then took a pay cut.

Call it a pay cut, call it a buy out, it still amounts to the same thing as the nurses.

I know you're saying the the S&S allowance reverts back to almost what it originally was come September and that the nurses get no allowance for an extra duty like this. However my point is that an extra hour was added to S&S for the same money, with those not doing it taking a cut just like the nurses.

So my point is the extra hour + in the two extra class periods, which I have never even once heard mentioned in the public domain, let alone acknowledged. It has to be put out there as part of our argument in order to get a reduction of the teachers' detention that is the CP hours.It must be made known that CP hours are NOT the only extra imposition, contrary to what got put out in the media.

Bear in mind too all the other extras, the hours of prep and correction, the new courses, the extra curricular which nurses or no other sector do.Among ourselves we are all well aware of this but the public is not and we have to get it out there to try to strengthen our case for when it eventually comes down to hammering out a deal.

acequion

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

Asti on a hiding to nothing. Sorry to say that but its true. Unless as some posters here have said you strike for along time then really what do you think will happen? Do you think the Department cares that you aint doing Croke park hours?

They might care about s and s withdrawal .
When they hit the redundancy button-watch Ed byrne fly into Marlborough street for another tweak and one more push to get this over the line.
I know the New JC is a ton of manure but you aint going to reverse it


I voted Yes and will again.

And you don't have a clue what you're talking about like so many of the Yes brigade. it's almost funny to see you write that Ed Byrne will fly in for a tweak to get a yes. Ed Byrne of all people!! The most anti agreement president we've had since the start of these agreements.

If you had followed the campaign with even half an eye you'd realise this but you ain't been doing your homework so you ain't!

deiseindublin

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

Asti on a hiding to nothing. .......

I voted Yes and will again.

You're obviously going to say that if you voted Yes, only way to justify leaving the side down.

JakeSisko1980

acequion wrote: »

And you don't have a clue what you're talking about like so many of the Yes brigade. it's almost funny to see you write that Ed Byrne will fly in for a tweak to get a yes. Ed Byrne of all people!! The most anti agreement president we've had since the start of these agreements.

If you had followed the campaign with even half an eye you'd realise this but you ain't been doing your homework so you ain't!

This is the same Ed Byrne who ran into talks after three days of school closures. Who spent three weeks producing nothing? Trust me when the heat is on Asti leadership collapse. You won't strike for a long time. Department will throw something at you and it's over. Bet any money this will be over by Oct 2017 without much change
That should have read us. I wish it were different. To be fair Asti watered down JC but this train stops here. My advice to any young teacher or any teacher needing more cash than on offer : do grinds

GSOIRL

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

This is the same Ed Byrne who ran into talks after three days of school closures. Who spent three weeks producing nothing? Trust me when the heat is on Asti leadership collapse. You won't strike for a long time. Department will throw something at you and it's over. Bet any money this will be over by Oct 2017 without much change

Are you a member of the ASTI?

JakeSisko1980

Yes

GSOIRL

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

Yes

Why do you keep referring to you instead of us in your posts? If you are a member of a union it would very much make sense to say we, especially for an English teacher (even a lazy one ). Just an observation.

JakeSisko1980

If redundancies are on table then an all out is only response. Will this happen? Not a chance. Ed will run into Marlborough Street asap. Quecue collapse. The same scenario will apply if another onerous penalty imposed

I hope the department will just leave us alone but I doubt it.

JakeSisko1980

GSOIRL wrote: »

Why do you keep referring to you instead of us in your posts? If you are a member of a union it would very much make sense to say we, especially for an English teacher (even a lazy one ). Just an observation.

My apologies. Thinking along lines of yes and no

JakeSisko1980

Look I think Asti have done well but unless you want to shut schools and go out for a few weeks then enjoy your free year of croke park which cost you a couple of grand and get ready to kneel

JakeSisko1980

I think Asti members look pretty stupid fighting over croke park hours ,which when you talk to members seems the central issue in comparison to pay equality

GSOIRL

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

This is the same Ed Byrne who ran into talks after three days of school closures. Who spent three weeks producing nothing? Trust me when the heat is on Asti leadership collapse. You won't strike for a long time. Department will throw something at you and it's over. Bet any money this will be over by Oct 2017 without much change
That should have read us. I wish it were different. To be fair Asti watered down JC but this train stops here. My advice to any young teacher or any teacher needing more cash than on offer : do grinds

So as a yes voter you think that teachers who qualified after 2011 should put up with inequality? I presume you at not Post 2011.
Teachers need to take a stand.
You seem very negative. Some or all of what you say may happen but do we really want people who educate the children of this country to just give into bullying and accept inequality and a new Junior Certificate that has been proven to be badly flawed.
I'm not sure you are a teacher but I'll take your word for it. I just hope such a negative and immoral person never gets to teach my children.

JakeSisko1980

GSOIRL wrote: »

So as a yes voter you think that teachers who qualified after 2011 should put up with inequality? I presume you at not Post 2011.
Teachers need to take a stand.
You seem very negative. Some or all of what you say may happen but do we really want people who educate the children of this country to just give into bullying and accept inequality and a new Junior Certificate that has been proven to be badly flawed.
I'm not sure you are a teacher but I'll take your word for it. I just hope such a negative and immoral person never gets to teach my children.

Immoral ? My god what hyperbole from generation snowflake. What words do you have left for a sex crime for instance? I voted no on all previous deals. Unless you want to go out for a few weeks nothing major will change. Work to rule will scare nobody.
As a union we are streets ahead of the UK but we hold back at ultimate confrontation. If Ed was clever he would have stayed out in Nov and allowed those up in arms to cry in their porridge. Instead he gave in and ran into talks

GSOIRL

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

Immoral ? My god what hyperbole from generation snowflake. What words do you have left for a sex crime for instance? I voted no on all previous deals. Unless you want to go out for a few weeks nothing major will change. Work to rule will scare nobody.

Generation Snowflake? (Sorry I had to Google it). Not all Post 2011 teachers are young. As someone previously stated you may need to do some research.
Enjoy your weekend. I hope you have positive outlook in other aspects of your life.

SligoBrewer

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

Immoral ? My god what hyperbole from generation snowflake. What words do you have left for a sex crime for instance? I voted no on all previous deals. Unless you want to go out for a few weeks nothing major will change. Work to rule will scare nobody.
As a union we are streets ahead of the UK but we hold back at ultimate confrontation. If Ed was clever he would have stayed out in Nov and allowed those up in arms to cry in their porridge. Instead he gave in and ran into talks

Stop calling people snowflakes for not accepting a pay deficit of €8k a year.

SligoBrewer

Friday 10 February 2017
ASTI Standing Committee met today to discuss the on-going disputes with the Department of Education and Skills.



Standing Committee stated that ASTI members will continue their withdrawal from the 33 Croke Park hours. In addition, the ASTI Directive on the Framework for Junior Cycle will remain in place.



The ASTI will continue its campaigns for equal pay for recently qualified teachers and sound reform of the Junior Cycle including political lobbying, a public information campaign, and further industrial action as appropriate.

franktennis

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I hope this is a joke !

deiseindublin

What do people here want?

When ASTI went into talks last year, it was pretty obvious that lots of posters wanted to row back, they weren't interested in staying out long term without pay. Now ASTI are standing still with their new NO mandate and seeing who will blink first.

It's up to DES next, will they let it lie and let students lose the 10%, I don't believe so. All the ASTI have to do is stand and wait.

If the Nurses do actually go on strike that may change things also.

Sometimes doing nothing is very effective.

Aquals

We're well past the point of no return now. I'd like to see strikes again for as long as it takes to get equal pay for equal work! From the perspective of an LPT, the short term loss would be worth it for the long term gain.

And if the ASTI really wanted to turn the screw, it could instruct teachers not to act as superintendents for the Junior and Leaving Cert. I can't see the Dept not engaging if the state exams were under threat!

acequion

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

This is the same Ed Byrne who ran into talks after three days of school closures. Who spent three weeks producing nothing? Trust me when the heat is on Asti leadership collapse. You won't strike for a long time. Department will throw something at you and it's over. Bet any money this will be over by Oct 2017 without much change
That should have read us. I wish it were different. To be fair Asti watered down JC but this train stops here. My advice to any young teacher or any teacher needing more cash than on offer : do grinds

Trust you? Sorry but I'd find that hard to do. You come blazing into this thread as if you've the whole thing sussed. Where were you before the ballot when the issue was being well trashed out and information being exchanged?

Yet again I remind you that you don't have the remotest clue about the current leadership so stop acting like you do.

There is no point in trying to enlighten you or even debate reasonably with you as you've obviously made up your mind on the whole thing because you voted Yes. Which is entirely your prerogative. However the other poster is right that you are very negative. And because of the negativity,defeatism,selfishness and fear of the many Yes voters like you,we almost did end up in the LRA. Because of the members,not the leaders. But thankfully we didn't.

acequion

Aquals wrote: »

We're well past the point of no return now. I'd like to see strikes again for as long as it takes to get equal pay for equal work! From the perspective of an LPT, the short term loss would be worth it for the long term gain.

And if the ASTI really wanted to turn the screw, it could instruct teachers not to act as superintendents for the Junior and Leaving Cert. I can't see the Dept not engaging if the state exams were under threat!

deiseindublin wrote: »

What do people here want?

When ASTI went into talks last year, it was pretty obvious that lots of posters wanted to row back, they weren't interested in staying out long term without pay. Now ASTI are standing still with their new NO mandate and seeing who will blink first.

It's up to DES next, will they let it lie and let students lose the 10%, I don't believe so. All the ASTI have to do is stand and wait.

If the Nurses do actually go on strike that may change things also.

Sometimes doing nothing is very effective.

I think you're both right, albeit in different ways.It will come down to proper timing. Doing nothing for a while could indeed be a good idea as the ball is now in the Govt's court.

However we are heading into a very good time of year if we need to turn up the heat with the LC orals just over a month away and then the written exams. I think we have to be prepared to use them as I agree that I can't see the Govt ignoring us then.

JakeSisko1980

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Stop calling people snowflakes for not accepting a pay deficit of €8k a year.

I did not want to accept that but I saw what happened in November. Only way you would get a better deal is a long strike but members chickened out.
My hope is that I'm wrong. I really do. 25% of members didn't vote. A lot of recently qualified members voted yes.

PureClareGold

So "political lobbying" is our way forward. Holy smoke. Is that what we waited a week and a half for. Why couldn't there have been something to help us English teachers who have had no help up to this. Could we not have been given a derogation to have some training on the new course. They can change tact and give principals and deputies a derogation to sort out S&S but not us!! Feel very let down. And how can I do the Assessment Task with my students now. The union won't let me.

km79

Held my tongue for the 8 days this took ........is this really the "plan " after 2 day's meeting?
Not a mention of s and s ? The govt have got a years work out of us for free so. Job done .
If this was voted on again tomorrow now there is NO DOUBT it would be a YES and the govt know this .
All this has done now is cost us time and money.
Shambles .

evolving_doors

JakeSisko1980 wrote: »

I did not want to accept that but I saw what happened in November. Only way you would get a better deal is a long strike but members chickened out.
My hope is that I'm wrong. I really do. 25% of members didn't vote. A lot of recently qualified members voted yes.

Where are you getting the breakdown of the voting demographic from?

Benicetomonty

km79 wrote: »

Held my tongue for the 8 days this took ........is this really the "plan " after 2 day's meeting?
Not a mention of s and s ? The govt have got a years work out of us for free so. Job done .
If this was voted on again tomorrow now there is NO DOUBT it would be a YES and the govt know this .
All this has done now is cost us time and money.
Shambles .

TUI are working s and s and CP hours and are being paid a fairly pathetic figure for the former so I dont feel too upset. At least s and s within school hours

ASTI are right not to stoke the fire this close to exams. Not working CP hours and especially not doing the AT for the JCT is without any shadow of a doubt upsetting the govt and has the potential to make Bruton look very bad

I agree it does look as if the LPT issue has been shelved to an extent, but, anecdotally, I do have to agree with previous posters who say a significant number of LPTs simply arent seeing the big picture in all of this and a lot of them did vote yes.

Boohoo71

Eh, is this the best they can come up with after two days , a Croke Park meeting after school would be more productive!

2011abc

Anyone else noticed how All these Yes voters have pretty lean post counts ? After the last few days you could put nothing past the govt .Hopefully they get booted out of power over this latest in a litany of outrages .

By the way on the offchance some of these Yes voters are 'legit' what the heck is with this not uncommon line ( I've even heard it rolled out by senior union officials )of "Oh I'm up for a fight but no one else is so I'm caving ...!" Is it not stating the obvious that if everyone thinks like that we will be caving all the time ?