Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

MrJones1973

To be fair to SC they want to see what the government will do but it would be a mistake to do nothing until September. I would pull plug on s and s after Easter . It's a move but not too risky as gives schools time to do recruit.

The government is planning to send in externs to do CBT task for English but I do think the department is annoyed over the impact all this has on roll out for JC
I would impose a strict work to rule and ban all tutorships and anything that's non teaching . I would ban sports as well. You will have members who will continue to do sport ie Kilkenny hurling etc but it's worth a shot.
Caution won't win anything

Moody_mona

I'm a shop steward and proud asti members, and NO voter.

I was disappointed with the statement put forward, but on reflection I think it's better to not give too much away, and take our time with the industrial action I guess.

3k means a lot to me. I'm trying to buy a house, and 3k in my salary is worth 12k in my mortgage. It's not going to stop me voting NO but I'm just highlighting a stressful and frustrating effect of the increment freeze and s&s non payment.

Stay strong and stick together ASTI!

SligoBrewer

Updated the graph to include what I can make out ASTI deficits to be.

acequion

joebloggs32 wrote: »

If you had an A post and were near top of the scale you would probably also be in Fempi territory, so if your gross is up over 65k you are getting another cut there compared to TUI, who will see Fempi cuts reversed in two stages, incremental pay rise, lra pay rise and S&S.
First fempi relief in April and next in January 2018.
Difference between an Asti and TUI worker at this level will be over €7k by next January if nothing changes. Difference for lpt's probably around €6k p.a. by next January.
It is a serious amount of cash.

Yes but look at all you have to sacrifice in return! Look at the constant erosion of conditions, the unreasonable demands,the constant new initiatives,the new JC in its current incarnation with CBA's, SLAR's,not to mention all the new courses,assessments etc that teachers have to get their heads around. And for a dumbed down course with common levels! Plus continuing huge class sizes, micro management of teachers, much less teacher autonomy or even support, much more box ticking and red tape. Thankfully I've a lot less years left to do than done,otherwise I'd be off re-training for something else because it really is becoming unbearable.

So there really are more important things than money!

judeboy101

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Updated the graph to include what I can make out ASTI deficits to be.

The days of teachers doing 40 yrs are coming to an end. Nice graph but it reminds me of the story of the tortoise and the hare, and we all know what happened to the hare ��

MrJones1973

I'm sure SC know how close they came to screwing it all up and are ready to hold the no camp together. I have been critical of them but I'm willing to give them some time to map a direction but it would be a terrible mistake to do nothing until September

judeboy101

At 11pts up FF might never have a better chance to pull plug in the next two yrs, a GE would help us a lot right now.

feardeas

judeboy101 wrote:

At 11pts up FF might never have a better chance to pull plug in the next two yrs, a GE would help us a lot right now.

After Brexit and Trump nobody should heed polls not mind trust them.

FF determined to see three budgets through I'd say because they know they may need a similar arrangement after the next election.

Also they are now committed to improved services rather than pay increases.

Other than the country taking leave of its senses and going AAA/PBP then I doubt there will be any major deviation from public pay policy. Remember FF sought assurances after the labour court recommendation with the guards that the improved services, as they saw it, got in the budget would be safe. That's their mantra. They feel it won them seats, and that it will win them more. They are convinced the centre must hold.

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

After Brexit and Trump nobody should heed polls not mind trust them.

FF determined to see three budgets through I'd say because they know they may need a similar arrangement after the next election.

Also they are now committed to improved services rather than pay increases.

Other than the country taking leave of its senses and going AAA/PBP then I doubt there will be any major deviation from public pay policy. Remember FF sought assurances after the labour court recommendation with the guards that the improved services, as they saw it, got in the budget would be safe. That's their mantra. They feel it won them seats, and that it will win them more. They are convinced the centre must hold.

Would tend to agree largely re FF. Their next incarnation will definitely not be the more indulgent one of previous times,though I'd reckon they'd still be better for public servants than FG. I despise FG and wouldn't be mad about FF but they're slightly the better of the two evils.

However, what is with your attitude towards AAA/PBP and the general middle Irish horror of the left? This business of the country "taking leave of its senses" is utter hyperbole and offensive to left leaning thinkers. We've always had right and centre right Governments in this country and look at the mess that's made of the economy almost every other decade.

I know that all this is a discussion for another forum but that type of conservative, let's not rock the boat thinking is one of the reasons why the Irish are so sheepish and hence we always get the Governments we deserve, and for those of us paid out of the public purse,perhaps the employer we deserve. Food for thought!

feardeas

acequion wrote: »

Would tend to agree largely re FF. Their next incarnation will definitely not be the more indulgent one of previous times,though I'd reckon they'd still be better for public servants than FG. I despise FG and wouldn't be mad about FF but they're slightly the better of the two evils.

However, what is with your attitude towards AAA/PBP and the general middle Irish horror of the left? This business of the country "taking leave of its senses" is utter hyperbole and offensive to left leaning thinkers. We've always had right and centre right Governments in this country and look at the mess that's made of the economy almost every other decade.

I know that all this is a discussion for another forum but that type of conservative, let's not rock the boat thinking is one of the reasons why the Irish are so sheepish and hence we always get the Governments we deserve, and for those of us paid out of the public purse,perhaps the employer we deserve. Food for thought!

I mean no offence, honest to God. Just that ideologically I would be left of centre but not AAA/PBP. Boyd Barrett in the debate of seven leaders last year talked about having a garda station where ever and all the rest with no notion how it would be paid for. Economies work in cycles all over the world except perhaps the old communist states where people lived in awful conditions and were not really helped by the state. Yes our economy was made a mess of by the banks, developers etc. However part of the problem was unsustainable spending based on resources [stamp duty] that were not guaranteed. The last thing we need is to go back to that.

You are right it is not directly part of the discussion but it has to feed in to the wider narrative imo for us to have any hope of having a sustainable future as an econmy, a society and indeed a public service.

judeboy101

feardeas wrote: »

After Brexit and Trump nobody should heed polls not mind trust them.

FF determined to see three budgets through I'd say because they know they may need a similar arrangement after the next election.

Also they are now committed to improved services rather than pay increases.

Other than the country taking leave of its senses and going AAA/PBP then I doubt there will be any major deviation from public pay policy. Remember FF sought assurances after the labour court recommendation with the guards that the improved services, as they saw it, got in the budget would be safe. That's their mantra. They feel it won them seats, and that it will win them more. They are convinced the centre must hold.

I'm not sure you are seeing my point. A GE now would have a gov in place over Easter, and the first thing that gov would have to deal with would be a massive threat to the state exams from us, we could catch them on the hop before they have time to settle in especially if we get a weak Jan o Sullivan style minister.

SligoBrewer

Fianna Fáil's economic policies are the reason why the LPT debate even exists.

acequion

feardeas wrote: »

I mean no offence, honest to God. Just that ideologically I would be left of centre but not AAA/PBP. Boyd Barrett in the debate of seven leaders last year talked about having a garda station where ever and all the rest with no notion how it would be paid for. Economies work in cycles all over the world except perhaps the old communist states where people lived in awful conditions and were not really helped by the state. Yes our economy was made a mess of by the banks, developers etc. However part of the problem was unsustainable spending based on resources [stamp duty] that were not guaranteed. The last thing we need is to go back to that.

You are right it is not directly part of the discussion but it has to feed in to the wider narrative imo for us to have any hope of having a sustainable future as an econmy, a society and indeed a public service.

There's huge amounts of untaxed wealth in this country and while I don't have the figures off the top of my head,I do know that we're one of the worst in terms of social equality /gap between rich and poor. So I just don't buy into this notion that there isn't enough money to pay for decent public services and reasonable pay and conditions for state workers.

We all know what caused the last crash but what about the one in the 80's and before that again in the 50's! No other country in Europe has done the cycle of crippling recessions like the Irish. Governance has to have something to do with it!

That said,I don't agree with the Left on everything and you're right that sometimes they talk as if there were unlimited reserves of cash which of course there isn't. But the comparatively recent ideology of neo liberalism, with its inherent notion of shrinking state funding is potentially hugely damaging to areas that need decent state funding such as education. So it's urgent that we get rid of the most right wing large party in the state asap.

MrJones1973

At heart I know that fg hate us. Does that mean FF would be better ?Not sure as public purse has many demands I would like a left leaning government that won't cut taxes but will improve public services and tackle big problems like the health service , spiraling insurance costs and the failure to prosecute bankers over tracker mortgage scandal

If Maurice McCabe founded a party he would get a majority but failing that im probably going to vote SF as the best of a bad lot. They at least said they would not abolish USC as the state needs cash. Do I approve of the IRA no I don't but they are gone
As for SC unless they get a strategy together then vote yes next time but I suspect blue shirts will over react and hand a strategy to them

man_no_plan

joebloggs32 wrote: »

He might be treated the same now by the government for the rest of the school year, but don't be surprised if the government bring out a new form like last September asking people to sign if they are available to do new jct, croke park hours and everything else.

On the issue of LPT's it is a classic case of one bird in the hand v two in the bush. Can the Asti deliver the two in the bush.

I heard the other day that there would be firms issuing to schools to bring in non unionised teachers.

I also heard that a number of cases of ASTI members signing the previous form and getting paid even though they weren't doing the cp hours or JC.

I think we are to expect our allocations for next year shortly now that the result is in.

evolving_doors

..."the Irish Congress of Trade Unions claimed Tesco was engaged in a campaign to encourage workers to leave their unions.
It said letters from a senior company director were distributed to staff, offering to facilitate them in exiting their respective trade unions if they filled out a form.
“It has taken an extremely serious turn,” said congress general secretary Patricia King. “The company has made decisions that demonstrate how they intend to approach their dealings with staff into the future.
“They are telling workers they will work when they want them to work, on the terms they want them to work, and that they would be better off leaving their trade unions. They have provided workers with forms to leave their unions.”

Sound familiar?

judeboy101

man_no_plan wrote: »

I heard the other day that there would be firms issuing to schools to bring in non unionised teachers.

I also heard that a number of cases of ASTI members signing the previous form and getting paid even though they weren't doing the cp hours or JC.

I think we are to expect our allocations for next year shortly now that the result is in.

Firms as in 'green street elite' firms?

JakeSisko1980

Forms is obviously whats intended. As stated the strategy (asti) might be determined to a move by Dept. If the Dept was to try a divide and conquer move-would be interesting to see what ICTU would do. ASTI could use a war cabinet- SC and CEc too big to think strategically. Will this happen-not a chance.

Benicetomonty

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-face-first-forced-redundancies-in-years-1.2990087?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Carl O Brien talking sense for once. Theres no doubt whatsoever that making a single member of the ASTI redundant is going to escalate this dispute into unchartered territory. Cant see Bruton following through on this particular threat if even the Times thinks its a dangerous move.

gaiscioch

I have to say that as I was driving into work this morning I greeted the latest threat (on Morning Ireland) from the overpaid fonctionnaires of the Department of Education with utter contempt. All the old divide and conquer strategies out in force. It just strengthened my resolve to say 'No' to everything they propose. I have no goodwill for their tactics, not to mention their utterly risible concept of "reform".


Just a reminder of the personal financial circumstances of some of these Department of Education "reformers", from the dark economic days of 2011:

1. Senior civil servant to get €114,000 pension at 53 years of age: 'Brigid McManus will retire in mid-February when her seven-year term expires. In accordance with the terms under which secretaries general were appointed, she will receive a full pension of €114,839 per year. She will also receive an after-tax lump-sum payment of €204,000.'

2. Irish civil servant to get paid more than most world leaders: 'The new Secretary General of the Department of Education will get a whopper €190,000 pay cheque every year.

The salary of the new department head, Seán Ó Foghlú, will far outweigh those of the leaders of some of the world's superpowers. Seán will be rewarded for his skill set with €17,000 more than the British Prime Minister David Cameron...'

And that's before the pension is included. Lord knows what our great "reforming" Department of Education is paying him, and many others, in 2017.

And it is to satisfy the "reforming" demands of these people that each of us is doing unpaid S&S and keeping schools open. Not content in depriving us of increments, their latest response is to threaten and bully us. Nah, it's not going to work at all, bright ones, and these particular heels get dug in deeper and deeper. It will only be a matter of time before all impartial observers will see the hypocrisy, arrogance and double standards at work from these great "reformers" in the Department of Education. Long past time to reform these arrant parasites and stop scapegoating teachers - in today's case, teachers who are among the most marginal in our increasingly marginalised profession.
When it comes to reforming conditions of employment, this really and truly is a "Do as we say, not as we do" government.

Finally, I'm still waiting for a single journalist in that abysmally compromised profession to grill the Minister for Education and his overpaid minions about how this state benefits from forcing Irish teachers to do Croke Park Hours. Or how any student benefits from any of the posteria-covering, box-ticking "reforms" they want to impose on us (I was speaking with somebody who returned from teaching in England and she was saying if she wanted to organise a school trip she needed to get health and safety reports on all aspects of the trip before it could be authorised. Jesus. This is "reform" and it's coming your way if you let it, teachers of Ireland.)

evolving_doors

Benicetomonty wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-face-first-forced-redundancies-in-years-1.2990087?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Carl O Brien talking sense for once. Theres no doubt whatsoever that making a single member of the ASTI redundant is going to escalate this dispute into unchartered territory. Cant see Bruton following through on this particular threat if even the Times thinks its a dangerous move.

The union should be balloting members to strike NOW if someone is redundant.
Bruton has his timing right.
If someone is made redundant it'll be next mid term break before union issues ballot to strike... then 2 weeks notice... then what? Minister is gone, along with Enda's cabinet. What's the chance of striking in May?

km79

Gebgbegb wrote: »

The union should be balloting members to strike NOW if someone is redundant.
Bruton has his timing right.
If someone is made redundant it'll be next mid term break before union issues ballot to strike... then 2 weeks notice... then what? Minister is gone, along with Enda's cabinet. What's the chance of striking in May?

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/asti-responds-to-redundancy-threat/


I don't know what to say anymore

judeboy101

Gebgbegb wrote: »

The union should be balloting members to strike NOW if someone is redundant.
Bruton has his timing right.
If someone is made redundant it'll be next mid term break before union issues ballot to strike... then 2 weeks notice... then what? Minister is gone, along with Enda's cabinet. What's the chance of striking in May?

I get the distinct impression the the lights are on but nobody's home, in Winetarvern street.

Remember how quickly the dept came to the table back in the day when we started threatening the LC?

Icsics

Another feckin ballot! Surely we've already balloted on Ind action? Are our union ever going to do anything for its members?

Autochange

Tell me if im wrong but instead of striking for more pay couldnt teachers get summer jobs and work the full year to make up the difference like the rest of us? Just wondering

evolving_doors

Icsics wrote: »

Another feckin ballot! Surely we've already balloted on Ind action? Are our union ever going to do anything for its members?

As far as I'm aware the union will be powerless to act quickly if someone is made redundant. The have to ballot then give 2 weeks notice.... which would be over 4 weeks I guess.

amacca

Gebgbegb wrote: »

As far as I'm aware the union will be powerless to act quickly if someone is made redundant. The have to ballot then give 2 weeks notice.... which would be over 4 weeks I guess.

OH says she thought last ballot included provision for strike in event of any member being made redundant

coillsaille

amacca wrote: »

OH says she thought last ballot included provision for strike in event of any member being made redundant

I can't remember the exact wording of the previous ballot on industrial action pretty sure there was no mention of the redundancy issue, just about equal pay. As far as I'm aware the DES only brought up the redundancy threat in the run-up to the last ballot on the talks proposals.

Chancer3001

Yes it's painful havung ballots for industrial action but there are strict protocols that have to be adhered to.

Look at what happened at tesco.

They called a strike but didn't adhere to the strict conditions. Tesco threatened to go to court regarding the validity of the strike and this resulted in the entire strike being called off.

If you strike unofficially you can be sacked.

TheDriver

IR protocols and rules are there for the protection of both sides and only the parties that are on strike. From my dealings with them, they are quite complex and thorough