Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

MrJones1973

I agree with you aqueion but ASTI must get going. Another ballot without a plan will end in defeat. It was tight last time. Fingers crossed Ed has a plan.
The redundancy card has been thrown at ASTI for last ten years. We need to call their bluff-lets see if they go ahead. If they do either all out strike or disrupting LC exams must be next port of call.

If members are not prepared for above-its over now folks and the patient is brain dead-you just wont turn off the machine.

franktennis

10 Asti members in our school. 4 left in 3 days. All under 35 years old. 6 remaining. Purely financial reasons.

judeboy101

franktennis wrote: »

10 Asti members in our school. 4 left in 3 days. All under 35 years old. 6 remaining. Purely financial reasons.

i think the technical term for that is "separating the wheat from the chaff":D

r93kaey5p2izun

franktennis wrote: »

10 Asti members in our school. 4 left in 3 days. All under 35 years old. 6 remaining. Purely financial reasons.

Will they benefit from leaving? Unless you declared TUI membership in September (or are a new entrant to the ETB declaring TUI membership as soon as you start) then you are stuck outside LRA for the foreseeable according the CEO of my ETB. Non union colleagues have frozen increments.

feardeas

Mrwhite1970 wrote:

A number of assumptions above that have no evidence. You have left the Union and I have rejoined but you have no idea how many have left or joined in total. Recently Asti had an increase in numbers in joint union schools which was surprising. Members coming and going will have no real impact on next ballot in my view but it's only a view As for ending blanket treatment of all teachers in voluntary schools(Asti/non Union) that's a big step and has repercussions across all public sector not just teaching but given that the tax payer is footing legal eagles they might find a way around that. You are right that teachers should not be surprised at redundancy moves. I'm not. But this time let's hope the Asti has a plan. Are you willing to pass a picket if rules are changed and you get LR despite being in a voluntary school? But I would not be confident of victory if balloted again. Yes to action vote declined by 28% last time. Unless Asti has a clear plan it's a big assumption that a ballot would pass again.

Just going on where I work. Big majority for yes and I'd say 60% have left. We could be an outlier. I've heard similar from other schools. However it's all yes people that are leaving. Hence my idea RE future ballots.

There's always been non union people in my school and they have never been asked to cross any picket.

Anyway folks busy time of year and lots to occupy rather than this. Good luck to ye all. It's in all our interests it doesn't get nasty or too deplorable. Rather liberating to be focused on other stuff now.

MrJones1973

Its the right of anyone to leave a union if they want-or any body they no longer agree with but unless the Department changes policy then it doesnt matter in most schools . As stated changing that policy has wider implications for Trade union movement. ICTU would not approve

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I agree with you aqueion but ASTI must get going. Another ballot without a plan will end in defeat. It was tight last time. Fingers crossed Ed has a plan.
The redundancy card has been thrown at ASTI for last ten years. We need to call their bluff-lets see if they go ahead. If they do either all out strike or disrupting LC exams must be next port of call.

If members are not prepared for above-its over now folks and the patient is brain dead-you just wont turn off the machine.

There's no reason to think that the union won't get going.

franktennis

Kolton Teeny Hall wrote: »

Will they benefit from leaving? Unless you declared TUI membership in September (or are a new entrant to the ETB declaring TUI membership as soon as you start) then you are stuck outside LRA for the foreseeable according the CEO of my ETB. Non union colleagues have frozen increments.

Is this true?. I have been told otherwise by school Stewart and TUI

r93kaey5p2izun

franktennis wrote: »

Is this true?. I have been told otherwise by school Stewart and TUI

This is the case in my school which is dual union. Non union members are outside LRA. Only staff who returned the Declaration of TUI Membership form are covered by LRA in dual union schools.

The DES FAQ on this is clear:
Non union in ETB schools (with the exception of designated Community Colleges) are treated as inside LRA. (These schools are TUI only officially)

Non union in Voluntary Schools are treated as outside LRA. (These schools are ASTI only officially)

Non union in ETB designated Community Colleges and in Community and Comprehensive schools are treated as outside LRA. (These schools are dual union officially)

I'm surprised TUI have advised otherwise as it has been discussed at all our branch meetings and they have been very clear on it. There are a few anomalies where there are TUI members in Voluntary Schools and ASTI members in ETB non-designated Community Colleges - the former being more common than the latter. Mostly this arises through moving jobs. Unless your school is actually a ETB non-designated Community College (officially TUI-only) with an unusually high number of ASTI members who transferred in? That's unlikely though.

MrJones1973

acequion wrote: »

There's no reason to think that the union won't get going.

Depends on which direction. The government is playing hard ball. So must we. Firing a member is a serious escalation. It must be met with a serious response. To my mind a few days token strikes won't upset the government too much

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Depends on which direction. The government is playing hard ball. So must we. Firing a member is a serious escalation. It must be met with a serious response. To my mind a few days token strikes won't upset the government too much

We wont strike on redundancy til after November at earliest. Action needs to happen after Easter, boycotting sec correcting etc and strikes every tues-Thurs until summer. Zero talking to media or dept education and willing only to talk to dept of finance.

MrJones1973

We shall just have to see. Lets think of those in a position of being fired-I dont like the word redundant. For obvious reasons. They would want immediate retaliation. They are parents,Spouses,mortgage payers etc. They are already probably losing sleep and terribly anxious. They more likely voted Yes to last ballot. Thus they need 100% support now. They probably didnt ask for more action. They got it. They need support.

Millem

franktennis wrote: »

Kolton Teeny Hall wrote: »

Will they benefit from leaving? Unless you declared TUI membership in September (or are a new entrant to the ETB declaring TUI membership as soon as you start) then you are stuck outside LRA for the foreseeable according the CEO of my ETB. Non union colleagues have frozen increments.

Is this true?. I have been told otherwise by school Stewart and TUI

Yes this is true. A fair few in my school left for financial reasons too. They think they will get increments etc. They are non union so not in the agreement so won't get anything. There was no talking to them.

deiseindublin

It depends on which type of ETB school you are.

We're a designated Comm. College and non-union staff member and teachers that didn't sign the declaration of membership document have not received the increments.

Some TUI schools are non-designated and TUI members and non-union members will both get the increment.

franktennis

Millem wrote: »

Yes this is true. A fair few in my school left for financial reasons too. They think they will get increments etc. They are non union so not in the agreement so won't get anything. There was no talking to them.

What's the point of leaving the ASTI then ?

Millem

When will schools find out about redeployment?

deiseindublin

franktennis wrote: »

What's the point of leaving the ASTI then ?

No financial reason at mo. Some posters don't feel represented by the No vote so left.

I'm in same boat with TUI, don't feel represented but haven't left.

r93kaey5p2izun

franktennis wrote: »

What's the point of leaving the ASTI then ?

Well I suppose not paying the fee if you don't feel represented is a fair reason. You said they left for financial reasons. Lots seem to be poorly informed on how LRA/FEMPI is being applied though, and I suppose they may incorrectly believe leaving ASTI will get back increments and S&S payments. Are CP hours happening in your school - since there are so few ASTI? If so then they'll now have to do them as they're no longer covered by the ASTI directive.

A colleague (always been non union) in my school actually joined and left TUI before Christmas but the ETB wouldn't accept that for getting the benefits of LRA and said take it up with Richard Bruton. DES merely referred him to the FAQ document on the application of LRA/FEMPI and refused to answer any further queries. He left TUI again as there was no benefit.

There is speculation that non-union teachers may be offered an opportunity to sign up to LRA in September - this sets a precedent for individual negotiation though which they're currently at pains to point out is not possible at the moment.

franktennis

Kolton Teeny Hall wrote: »

Well I suppose not paying the fee if you don't feel represented is a fair reason. You said they left for financial reasons. Lots seem to be poorly informed on how LRA/FEMPI is being applied though, and I suppose they may incorrectly believe leaving ASTI will get back increments and S&S payments. Are CP hours happening in your school - since there are so few ASTI? If so then they'll now have to do them as they're no longer covered by the ASTI directive.

A colleague (always been non union) in my school actually joined and left TUI before Christmas but the ETB wouldn't accept that for getting the benefits of LRA and said take it up with Richard Bruton. DES merely referred him to the FAQ document on the application of LRA/FEMPI and refused to answer any further queries. He left TUI again as there was no benefit.

There is speculation that non-union teachers may be offered an opportunity to sign up to LRA in September - this sets a precedent for individual negotiation though which they're currently at pains to point out is not possible at the moment.

All those were told that they would be getting LRA which is why they left for TUI. Very confusing . So many opinions

r93kaey5p2izun

franktennis wrote: »

All those were told that they would be getting LRA which is why they left for TUI. Very confusing . So many opinions

They can't join TUI.

franktennis

Kolton Teeny Hall wrote: »

They can't join TUI.

They have joined . Filled in online application and have payment sheet sent to home address

Millem

Frank I thought new members have to be approved at branch meetings?

franktennis

Millem wrote: »

Frank I thought new members have to be approved at branch meetings?

2 of them told me this. They just have to fill in bank details and they are in. Online application was approved. I'm just relaying what they told me.

Millem

franktennis wrote: »

Millem wrote: »

Frank I thought new members have to be approved at branch meetings?

2 of them told me this. They just have to fill in bank details and they are in. Online application was approved. I'm just relaying what they told me.

Your Tui school rep should report them if that's the case. My rep would if that was in my school.
That underhand type of stuff really annoys me. I like deise am in Tui I don't agree with JC etc but appreciate and understand how a union works!! I will not leave to be non union as want union protection.

Lots of Tui people are leaving s and s. You need 15 years service though so I can't it will be torture if hour long classes come in.

franktennis

Millem wrote: »

Your Tui school rep should report them if that's the case. My rep would if that was in my school.
That underhand type of stuff really annoys me. I like deise am in Tui I don't agree with JC etc but appreciate and understand how a union works!! I will not leave to be non union as want union protection.

Lots of Tui people are leaving s and s. You need 15 years service though so I can't it will be torture if hour long classes come in.

They did inform Rep . It was the Rep that told them to fill out application form online after they had submitted resignation from ASTI

Millem

franktennis wrote: »

Millem wrote: »

Your Tui school rep should report them if that's the case. My rep would if that was in my school.
That underhand type of stuff really annoys me. I like deise am in Tui I don't agree with JC etc but appreciate and understand how a union works!! I will not leave to be non union as want union protection.

Lots of Tui people are leaving s and s. You need 15 years service though so I can't it will be torture if hour long classes come in.

They did inform Rep . It was the Rep that told them to fill out application form online after they had submitted resignation from ASTI

Disgraceful. The rep should be reported.

joebloggs32

franktennis wrote: »

2 of them told me this. They just have to fill in bank details and they are in. Online application was approved. I'm just relaying what they told me.

The online application doesn't let anyone in. They must be approved by a branch. My branch has refused entry recently to someone who applied this way as they had just resigned from the Asti in a voluntary secondary school

MrJones1973

I hope ASTi takes this threat seriously of Redundancy. They need to be meeting those on front line-those who might be fired. Ballot papers should be printed already and ready to Roll. My gut tells me Bruton will carry this out.

MrJones1973

Great article By Brenda O'Brien ASTI Member and Irish times columnist

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-government-is-holding-back-education-1.2996849

Benicetomonty

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Great article By Brenda O'Brien ASTI Member and Irish times columnist

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-government-is-holding-back-education-1.2996849

Agree with everything in the article. Unfortunate, however, that we're depending on Breda's popularity to win us friends amongst Times' readers

In other news, INMO has deferred industrial action for another ballot, recommending acceptance after WRC conceded a few allowances. On our own again.