Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

evolving_doors

Yup fairly to the point article.
We're nearly always looking for teachers of home ec and languages. You'd think theyd be chomping at the bit to become teachers.... going by what the uneducated say about our great terms and conditions.

evolving_doors

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Agree with everything in the article. Unfortunate, however, that we're depending on Breda's popularity to win us friends amongst Times' readers

In other news, INMO has deferred industrial action for another ballot, recommending acceptance after WRC conceded a few allowances. On our own again.

Allowances and posts of responsibility are back on table for nurses due to talks to avert proposed strike action.

Transport strike is also called off as talks go underway to avert proposed strike action.

I get the feeling the ASTI are missing the pattern.

acequion

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Allowances and posts of responsibility are back on table for nurses due to talks to avert proposed strike action.

Transport strike is also called off as talks go underway to avert proposed strike action.

I get the feeling the ASTI are missing the pattern.

You need to explain your point here a bit better. What pattern exactly are we missing?

Remember that we too stood down our industrial action to attend TCC talks. And that single action, as well as resulting in virtually zero concessions, almost derailed our campaigns and very much divided the members.

If we're on our own, so be it.

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Great article By Brenda O'Brien ASTI Member and Irish times columnist

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-government-is-holding-back-education-1.2996849

A really great article. It gives me hope when I see a journalist, any journalist, pointing the finger of blame squarely where it lies,namely this excuse for a Government.

dg647

The pattern is that you have to be prepared to take action. When the government think you will follow through on threatened industrial action they will take you seriously. We need to use our greatest bargaining chip, the state exams. We should put the department on notice that we will be withdrawingfrom S&S. This should begin at the start date of the oral exams or else the start of the practical exams for Art, Home Ec, Engineering etc. If the JMB want to close schools so be it, but it will be them and the DES who are impacting on the state exams, not us.

evolving_doors

acequion wrote: »

You need to explain your point here a bit better. What pattern exactly are we missing?

Remember that we too stood down our industrial action to attend TCC talks. And that single action, as well as resulting in virtually zero concessions, almost derailed our campaigns and very much divided the members.

If we're on our own, so be it.

The tcc talks were a facade I think we can all agree on that.

Either were talking indistrial action or not.

What's going on at the moment? We're doing S&S for free just to spite the minister.
Maybe the asti is just holding out for their one trump... the junior cert. Is that it?

TheDriver

dg647 wrote: »

If the JMB want to close schools so be it, but it will be them and the DES who are impacting on the state exams, not us.

Unfortunately its not always black and white in eyes of those who pay the bills I.e. Electorate. Its all about the spin and way its put. Same as S&S, same as unreasonable reason for FEMPI still around etc, its the way any of it is portrayed.

evolving_doors

TheDriver wrote: »

Unfortunately its not always black and white in eyes of those who pay the bills I.e. Electorate. Its all about the spin and way its put. Same as S&S, same as unreasonable reason for FEMPI still around etc, its the way any of it is portrayed.

Has any action by teacher unions ever been portrayed in a positive light?

dg647

TheDriver wrote:

Unfortunately its not always black and white in eyes of those who pay the bills I.e. Electorate. Its all about the spin and way its put. Same as S&S, same as unreasonable reason for FEMPI still around etc, its the way any of it is portrayed.

We need to look after ourselves and don't worry about public perception. The public don't seem to be too worried about what is happening to teachers or the Junior Cert.

The exams are our best bargaining chip. We will be available to teach when we withdraw s&s, DES/JMB will be the ones who close the schools if they want to. We need to bring this to a head and get it sorted.

km79

Wait and see what the nurses do they said

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nurses-industrial-action-deferred-to-allow-for-ballot-on-proposals-1.2998220

Now what

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

Wait and see what the nurses do they said

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nurses-industrial-action-deferred-to-allow-for-ballot-on-proposals-1.2998220

Now what

180 million quid I hear and they didn't have to lose a days pay. Feck me, threaten the exams now and we will be millionaires by summer!!

SligoBrewer

judeboy101 wrote: »

180 million quid I hear and they didn't have to lose a days pay. Feck me, threaten the exams now and we will be millionaires by summer!!

They have only gotten 10 million worth of allowances back.

judeboy101

SligoBrewer wrote: »

They have only gotten 10 million worth of allowances back.

Don't forget changes to recruitment and over crowding.

km79

We absolutely need to hear something from Head Office this week now .
Guidance /Reassurance/ Strategy call it what you want we need to hear SOMETHING
With every passing week it is becoming more and more obvious that there was no plan other than wait and see and hope for the best
That's not going too well .....

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

We absolutely need to hear something from Head Office this week now .
Guidance /Reassurance/ Strategy call it what you want we need to hear SOMETHING
With every passing week it is becoming more and more obvious that there was no plan other than wait and see and hope for the best
That's not going too well .....

There is a plan, haven't you heard? We are going to wait til the mocks are over, wait til the orals and practical's are done, wait til the last term is over, wait til the state exams are over, wait til our members correct those exams in July, wait til our members are sacked, have a meeting of SC, then have a meeting of CEC, then announce a ballot, then have a ballot and then in November lose a couple of days pay after which we will vote on the same deal again.

MrJones1973

Ah Come on Judeboy. I know I was heavily critical of the ASTi in November and even left the ASTI for a short time but one thing Im certain of-one way or another this dispute will be ended by Summer. I know that ASTI is under a lot of pressure from those threatened by redundancy. They aint going to let this drag on over Summer.

The Department will offer something but what they offer is anybody's guess. There is already talk of externs coming in for JC English tasks. There might be some give on management posts (clarity) and an understanding over the over all thrust of reform.

We shall know more this week.

km79

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Ah Come on Judeboy. I know I was heavily critical of the ASTi in November and even left the ASTI for a short time but one thing Im certain of-one way or another this dispute will be ended by Summer. I know that ASTI is under a lot of pressure from those threatened by redundancy. They aint going to let this drag on over Summer.

The Department will offer something but what they offer is anybody's guess. There is already talk of externs coming in for JC English tasks. There might be some give on management posts (clarity) and an understanding over the over all thrust of reform.

We shall know more this week.

Why what's happening this week ?
Heard no mention of any meetings

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Ah Come on Judeboy. I know I was heavily critical of the ASTi in November and even left the ASTI for a short time but one thing Im certain of-one way or another this dispute will be ended by Summer. I know that ASTI is under a lot of pressure from those threatened by redundancy. They aint going to let this drag on over Summer.

The Department will offer something but what they offer is anybody's guess. There is already talk of externs coming in for JC English tasks. There might be some give on management posts (clarity) and an understanding over the over all thrust of reform.

We shall know more this week.

I have it from someone on the dark side that the DES want to nail the asti, not one syllable will be changed, you can see how every other group has gotten their cake; guards, luas, nurses and probably guards. The blood is in the water and the des know we a reactive rather than proactive unlike the above mentioned unions. We also have an inexperienced negotiating team compared the the other unions as shown by the November debacle. I hope I'm wrong and next week I hear the asti go for the proverbial ghoulies but they wont imho.

Icsics

judeboy101 wrote: »

I have it from someone on the dark side that the DES want to nail the asti, not one syllable will be changed, you can see how every other group has gotten their cake; guards, luas, nurses and probably guards. The blood is in the water and the des know we a reactive rather than proactive unlike the above mentioned unions. We also have an inexperienced negotiating team compared the the other unions as shown by the November debacle. I hope I'm wrong and next week I hear the asti go for the proverbial ghoulies but they wont imho.

What's happening next week?

judeboy101

Icsics wrote: »

What's happening next week?

Same thing as last week, nothing.

The_Valeyard

judeboy101 wrote: »

Same thing as last week, nothing.

like the worst episode of Pinky and the Brain

MrJones1973

There is a meeting of standing committee next week. I think Ed Byrne deserves one more shot at this. Personally if I were him I'd play it to the wire. Ballot members. Ballot to include exam disruption. At this stage it has to be in the mix. Have a list ready of what you want. Publish it . This list must show some movement by Asti IE a timeline for equal pay rather than pie in the sky equality now

SligoBrewer

Everyone would settle for a timeline of equality, but Bruton won't even acknowledge that we deserve it.

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

There is a meeting of standing committee next week. I think Ed Byrne deserves one more shot at this. Personally if I were him I'd play it to the wire. Ballot members. Ballot to include exam disruption. At this stage it has to be in the mix. Have a list ready of what you want. Publish it . This list must show some movement by Asti IE a timeline for equal pay rather than pie in the sky equality now

Ballot on what? We already have given union go ahead to take industrial action up to and including strike action. They need to grow a pair and use it. My preference would be an immediate withdrawal from co op with sec with regards to all state exams, and a 2 day week from after Easter. It means we strike Tues)Thurs but still get paid for weekend and summer. Zero media interviews and request that we will only do a deal with the dept of finance. Try to cut the JC issue out of the equation by offering finance some serious concessions. Finance just care about money, not ideological differences between asti and DES mandarins.

MrJones1973

judeboy101 wrote: »

Ballot on what? We already have given union go ahead to take industrial action up to and including strike action. They need to grow a pair and use it. My preference would be an immediate withdrawal from co op with sec with regards to all state exams, and a 2 day week from after Easter. It means we strike Tues)Thurs but still get paid for weekend and summer. Zero media interviews and request that we will only do a deal with the dept of finance. Try to cut the JC issue out of the equation by offering finance some serious concessions. Finance just care about money, not ideological differences between asti and DES mandarins.

Not a bad plan but I think Striking over redundancies as opposed to LR/Equality would require a ballot. I could be wrong

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Not a bad plan but I think Striking over redundancies as opposed to LR/Equality would require a ballot. I could be wrong

It probably does but why wait until November to strike for sacked colleagues when we can strike for them under the banner of a mandate we already have re equal pay etc. Everyone will know the real reason we are on strike but it will be immediate and legal strike. It's still not too late to pull the plug on orals and practical's, its a good shot across the bow with minimal effect to kids (sec can reschedule in may if need be) but max shock to mammy and daddy.

MrJones1973

judeboy101 wrote: »

It probably does but why wait until November to strike for sacked colleagues when we can strike for them under the banner of a mandate we already have re equal pay etc. Everyone will know the real reason we are on strike but it will be immediate and legal strike. It's still not too late to pull the plug on orals and practical's, its a good shot across the bow with minimal effect to kids (sec can reschedule in may if need be) but max shock to mammy and daddy.

We will have to ballot On redundancies. (confirmed this) There wont be a fudge on that as would be confusing and could be open to legal challenge.
However Im with you on time being of the essence

What I can see happening is we ballot-ballot passes-talks occur.
Thats the sequence of events. It would be a tactically dangerous move to go into talks without this ballot and without some communication with TUI. Going into Department without this ballot would be like sleeping with a hooker sans condom.

deiseindublin

Expecting any back up from TUI would be a massive mistake. ASTI are on their own, TUI sold out for a pittance, no going back now.

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

We will have to ballot On redundancies. (confirmed this) There wont be a fudge on that as would be confusing and could be open to legal challenge.
However Im with you on time being of the essence

What I can see happening is we ballot-ballot passes-talks occur.
Thats the sequence of events. It would be a tactically dangerous move to go into talks without this ballot and without some communication with TUI. Going into Department without this ballot would be like sleeping with a hooker sans condom.

Talking to the TUI before talks would be like talking to your missus before you sleep with the aforementioned lady of the night

Education matters

deiseindublin wrote: »

Expecting any back up from TUI would be a massive mistake. ASTI are on their own, TUI sold out for a pittance, no going back now.

I understand what you're saying but TUI voted and accepted the deal. Yes, their Exec recommended a yes but only because they felt that was all that was forthcoming and they were right about that. The Department are playing hardball but just because TUI accepted or sold out as you call it doesn't mean they'll stand by and watch their colleagues be made redundant, it doesn't mean they're over joyed that their friends won't get a CID and it doesn't mean that they're not trade unionists. They democratically accepted what was on the table having previously rejected it. When both unions worked together their coherent approach was listened to and supported by students the parents and ultimately it changed the Departments approach.