Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

MrJones1973

I doubt where pickets are in place TUI members would cross even if not directly mandated by their Union? But the TUI are in a tricky position. If they have a strike in support of ASTI, doesnt that mean they have effectively stepped outside of LR?

deiseindublin

Education matters wrote: »

When both unions worked together their coherent approach was listened to and supported by students the parents and ultimately it changed the Departments approach.

All the more reason they should have worked together and stayed on the same page. Only reason DES is playing absolute hardball now is that TUI folded/voted Yes and ASTI are on their own. If it was 100% of schools in the country, there would have been some give.

MrJones1973

deiseindublin wrote: »

All the more reason they should have worked together and stayed on the same page. Only reason DES is playing absolute hardball now is that TUI folded/voted Yes and ASTI are on their own. If it was 100% of schools in the country, there would have been some give.

But the reality is they didnt! We have to move from there. I agree with your sentiments but we might be looking for some form of TUI support soon so best not to antagonize them !

deiseindublin

Not trying to antagonise, I'd just be really surprised if they were any more use to ASTI than a chocolate teapot.

MrJones1973

The problem with TUI is the inclusion of lecturers in its vote. I would be for One union but not with that element

Moody_mona

I see there's a English update on the state exams website today - I don't understand the dates or CBAs as it's not my subject, can anyone paraphrase?!

Pursefan

Looks like the removal of teacher assessment requirement. Students can complete the booklet which could secure the 10 percent mark without any element of teachers correcting their work. It looks like a win for us. Finally!! Any coincidence in talk of a snap election soon?

evolving_doors

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

The problem with TUI is the inclusion of lecturers in its vote. I would be for One union but not with that element

Edit: Also the TUI refuses to represent school paid teachers in fee charging schools ... equality my hat.

joebloggs32

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

The problem with TUI is the inclusion of lecturers in its vote. I would be for One union but not with that element

The problem with the Asti is retired teachers being allowed vote. It is easy for them to reject a deal. They won't be standing on a picket without pay when a strike is called.

joebloggs32

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Also the TUI refuses to represent school paid teachers... equality my hat.

Correct me if I am wrong, but would school only paid teachers be found in the voluntary school sector, where the TUI are not represented.
The Asti does not allow members of religious orders to become members.

joebloggs32

Pursefan wrote: »

Looks like the removal of teacher assessment requirement. Students can complete the booklet which could secure the 10 percent mark without any element of teachers correcting their work. It looks like a win for us. Finally!! Any coincidence in talk of a snap election soon?

That was conceded 12 months ago. You facilitate it, while the SEC marks it. A bit like CSPE project.

Pursefan

No. It's was not like the CSPE Action Project Report as in the case of English the teacher was required to mark 3 pieces of work from each student which then led into the booklet that would be completed in class. They could not do the booklet unless they had submitted the pieces of work and received feedback. Today's announcement has removed that teacher correction part. English teachers never wanted the corrections part as it would also involve SLAR meetings too.

MrJones1973

I think both unions could use structural reforms. There are too many branches in Asti and the CEC is too big . The decision to place ballots in schools is the only positive change I have seen in recent years. The annual convention is just mainly a piss up. It's like a Parliament in exile. Motions passed that haven't a hope of being acted upon.
The guest speakers are like a PDST light
The worst one was that condescending speech from Elaine Byrne a few years back. The columnist

evolving_doors

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but would school only paid teachers be found in the voluntary school sector, where the TUI are not represented.
The Asti does not allow members of religious orders to become members.

Talking about teachers in a fee charging school ... privately paid out of school funds. TUI won't represent them.

r93kaey5p2izun

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Also the TUI refuses to represent school paid teachers... equality my hat.

All school paid teachers or school paid teachers in fee charging schools? Do they accept any members from fee charging schools? They are ideologically opposed to fee charging schools - I thought that was the issue.

joebloggs32 wrote: »

The problem with the Asti is retired teachers being allowed vote. It is easy for them to reject a deal. They won't be standing on a picket without pay when a strike is called.

They can only vote if it affects them - the recent ballot affects their pension.

On the issue of TUIs third level members - don't be so sure they are the reason for TUI rolling over. The most militant Executive Committee members (including the ones who tried to start the Grassroots campaign and ran for President to try change policy) are from third level.

joebloggs32

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Talking about teachers in a fee charging school ... privately paid out of school funds. TUI won't represent them.

Exactly as I said. TUI have no negotiating rights with a fee charging school. That is the voluntary sector.

joebloggs32

Kolton Teeny Hall wrote: »

All school paid teachers or school paid teachers in fee charging schools? Do they accept any members from fee charging schools? They are ideologically opposed to fee charging schools - I thought that was the issue.



They can only vote if it affects them - the recent ballot affects their pension.

On the issue of TUIs third level members - don't be so sure they are the reason for TUI rolling over. The most militant Executive Committee members (including the ones who tried to start the Grassroots campaign and ran for President to try change policy) are from third level.

I would agree with you there regarding the 3rd level members.

evolving_doors

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Exactly as I said. TUI have no negotiating rights with a fee charging school. That is the voluntary sector.

Ooooo this is all getting complicated. Ya sorry I meant school paid teachers in a fee charging school. And as an extension I presume TUI wouldn't want to represent any teacher in such a school.

MrJones1973

Tradition plays a part in ballots. Asti traditionally more militant and this militancy handed down as it were. The arrival of fightback gave militants a much needed boost. By militants I mean those willing to stand by principle

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Tradition plays a part in ballots. Asti traditionally more militant and this militancy handed down as it were. The arrival of fightback gave militants a much needed boost. By militants I mean those willing to stand by principle

At this stage I wouldn't be surprised if the DES blamed Putin for planting agitators in the asti

r93kaey5p2izun

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ooooo this is all getting complicated. Ya sorry I meant school paid teachers in a fee charging school. And as an extension I presume TUI wouldn't want to represent any teacher in such a school.

I don't think TUI accept members from fee charging schools. I don't think it has anything to do with being school paid (I have known somebody to be a member while school paid in an ordinary school). If they are ideologically opposed to fee charging schools, and have a stated policy of opposing this model (as they do), then it would make little sense to represent teachers in such schools.

doc_17

TUI does not have negotiation rights with the employer so therefore cannot represent teachers in the fee paying sector.

implausible

Pursefan wrote: »

No. It's was not like the CSPE Action Project Report as in the case of English the teacher was required to mark 3 pieces of work from each student which then led into the booklet that would be completed in class. They could not do the booklet unless they had submitted the pieces of work and received feedback. Today's announcement has removed that teacher correction part. English teachers never wanted the corrections part as it would also involve SLAR meetings too.

Correct, but now it is like the CSPE project or the Science booklet - completed in school, but sent off with the final exam and marked by the SEC. I wonder what ASTI will do now, as I suspect that teachers refusing to do this could be in breach of contract.

acequion

Pursefan wrote: »

No. It's was not like the CSPE Action Project Report as in the case of English the teacher was required to mark 3 pieces of work from each student which then led into the booklet that would be completed in class. They could not do the booklet unless they had submitted the pieces of work and received feedback. Today's announcement has removed that teacher correction part. English teachers never wanted the corrections part as it would also involve SLAR meetings too.

I haven't been following this as closely as I should,given that I teach English,but don't have third years.

But are you sure it's as good as it looks Pursefan? It would be brilliant if we could get rid of these SLARS and indeed all teacher assessment.But who corrects the collection of texts now? And what about the oral presentations that they're supposed to make?

As for facilitating, without having to assess, I can't see why that would pose a problem. But I'm open to correction.

implausible

acequion wrote: »

I haven't been following this as closely as I should,given that I teach English,but don't have third years.

But are you sure it's as good as it looks Pursefan? It would be brilliant if we could get rid of these SLARS and indeed all teacher assessment.But who corrects the collection of texts now? And what about the oral presentations that they're supposed to make?

As for facilitating, without having to assess, I can't see why that would pose a problem. But I'm open to correction.

My guess is that this is a temporary concession to get this first cohort through and that the collection of texts (CBA2) is not going to be assessed at all

The problem is that a large amount of the learning outcomes are assessed through the CBAs, so this means that the work students have done for the collection of texts isn't assessed, except by themselves in the AT. This cohort will also have gone through without having their oral skills assessed, the same thing that happened with the old Junior Cert in 1992.

Icsics

So does this upcoming assessment only cover studied texts? ASTI have really dropped the ball on this one, complete silence allowing the SEC to rumble on & u can be sure JMB will be issuing a directive before the end of the week! And what are ASTI doing....'considering' it Thurs & Fri! Some very condescending posts from them on their Facebook page....about the structure of the Union. The JCT is in lads, being assessed & we've had no inservice on it!

judeboy101

Icsics wrote: »

So does this upcoming assessment only cover studied texts? ASTI have really dropped the ball on this one, complete silence allowing the SEC to rumble on & u can be sure JMB will be issuing a directive before the end of the week! And what are ASTI doing....'considering' it Thurs & Fri! Some very condescending posts from them on their Facebook page....about the structure of the Union. The JCT is in lads, being assessed & we've had no inservice on it!

You are assuming they ever had the ball in the first place. Expect the usual guff Friday, no clear strategy and leaving our most potent weapon, the exams outside the threat zone. I cant think of another group of workers that have such a stick to threat the government with and yet don't use it.

man_no_plan

There is no practical difference between this assessment and the one TUI teachers did before Christmas.

The AT doesn't depend on the CBA, all it needs is the collection of texts. No work has been marked by teachers for state certification. The CBA'S do require a SLAR but nothing to do with the final mark. The CBA is different, its more work, it might be a pain in the ass but its nit teachers marking students for state certification.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE!!

MrJones1973

Im not worried by this. It obviously would aid students to have an SLAR/Mark but not necessary. I would chalk it as a victory.

implausible

Icsics wrote: »

So does this upcoming assessment only cover studied texts? ASTI have really dropped the ball on this one, complete silence allowing the SEC to rumble on & u can be sure JMB will be issuing a directive before the end of the week! And what are ASTI doing....'considering' it Thurs & Fri! Some very condescending posts from them on their Facebook page....about the structure of the Union. The JCT is in lads, being assessed & we've had no inservice on it!

No, the AT is where the students reflect on their collection of texts, which is CBA2. TUI teachers have taught, given feedback on and given a descriptor to two final pieces of writing selected by the student from their collection of texts. ASTI teachers have taught and given feedback on the pieces of writing in the collection of texts.

In the AT, students of TUI teachers will reflect on pieces of writing that have been awarded a grade; students of ASTI teachers will reflect on pieces of writing that have not been awarded a grade (if the union doesn't prohibit teachers from carrying it out.)

I don't know how the ASTI didn't predict this and have a response ready to go. English teachers in the ASTI have been hung out to dry, having to teach a brand new syllabus with only having had one inservice (after which the assessment was drastically changed), no 14 hours in-school planning time this year and no timetable reduction of 40 minutes from September.