Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

joebloggs32

man_no_plan wrote: »

If you want to deny reality that's your business.

There's an offer to pay for s&s.

I agree with you on low pay for new entrants. Problem is there's too many irons in the fire here. If everyone is so elated with the SEC news why not just get on with the new JC??

I'd say he'd call them alternative facts!

MrJones1973

implausible wrote: »

The idea is that the collection of texts/portfolio is where students can focus on essay-writing. Instead of training them to write an essay under pressure, they get time to draft, edit and redraft until they're happy with their final piece of work. Maybe you have better students than me, but I find it impossible to get LCs to draft and redraft their work. Hopefully with the new course, they will come into LC used to the idea of reworking a piece of writing.

Unless we go home with students in the evening and supervise them reading books I don't think any curricular change can make them read more.

To be fair I acknowledged that as a possible direction but I think they have to focus it more-make an essay in portfolio obligatory. A sustained piece of writing otherwise they flounder like fish out of water with LC.
As for Learning outcomes-dont kid yourselves. These will be driven into your like nails on a cross. Not something to take out for the inspector.
If any of you use TES website look at material there by English teachers. The material is quite good but the LO are laughable. With three different bars of achievement. To call it moronic doesn't do it justice

You wont be able to send Jack to the toilet without a LO because they dont trust you and think Knowledge can be narrowed down to a Learnig outcomes. You 'll be a Mcdonald's Educator-large,medium or small etc

judeboy101

joebloggs32 wrote: »

I'd say he'd call them alternative facts!

Kelly Ann would definitely do better than our current PR team

acequion

implausible wrote: »

What I've emboldened are learning outcomes written in a teacher-centred way. The new course just breaks these down into smaller chunks and makes them student-centred. I think of the LOs as a checklist e.g.

The old JC English curriculum had aims and learning objectives. It came in just before I did the JC, but I'll hazard a guess that there was resistance to that too and it was seen as the dumbing down of education.

If I recall rightly there wasn't resistance to it and teachers welcomed it. It replaced both the old Inter Cert and Group Cert. And you're right there were aims and objectives. But is that not like telling us to remember to breathe? I mean there are always objectives or learning outcomes. Why suddenly make a song and dance? Why can't they just let teachers get on with their jobs!

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

To be fair I acknowledged that as a possible direction but I think they have to focus it more-make an essay in portfolio obligatory. A sustained piece of writing otherwise they flounder like fish out of water with LC.
As for Learning outcomes-dont kid yourselves. These will be driven into your like nails on a cross. Not something to take out for the inspector.
If any of you use TES website look at material there by English teachers. The material is quite good but the LO are laughable. With three different bars of achievement. To call it moronic doesn't do it justice

You wont be able to send Jack to the toilet without a LO because they dont trust you and think Knowledge can be narrowed down to a Learnig outcomes. You 'll be a Mcdonald's Educator-large,medium or small etc

Well I'll definitely be in trouble so because I just can't teach like that. Nor do I want to. But are you not exaggerating a bit? As always can we not just throw on a show for the inspector and get back to normal once he's out the gate?

Totally agree with your point about the essays. It should be a mandatory for the portfolio work. As of now it's very much dependant on the individual teacher's own skill and expertise to guide them through it and that's not always a given. At least before, if the curriculum was covered they were more or less prepared for fifth year.

implausible

Mrwhite1970 wrote:

You wont be able to send Jack to the toilet without a LO because they dont trust you and think Knowledge can be narrowed down to a Learnig outcomes. You 'll be a Mcdonald's Educator-large,medium or small etc

It's more about making the course explicit to students than not trusting teachers.

acequion wrote:

If I recall rightly there wasn't resistance to it and teachers welcomed it. It replaced both the old Inter Cert and Group Cert. And you're right there were aims and objectives. But is that not like telling us to remember to breathe? I mean there are always objectives or learning outcomes. Why suddenly make a song and dance? Why can't they just let teachers get on with their jobs!

Fair enough. Sure having any curriculum, by that logic, is reminding us to breathe!

acequion wrote:

Well I'll definitely be in trouble so because I just can't teach like that. Nor do I want to.

You'd swear you're being asked to change to teaching Swahili through the medium of dance. It's the same stuff - still poems, essays, Shakespeare, To Kill a Mockingbird and films (same as LC). The Oral is new and they've brought in new media - both needed. We've been telling students about LOs for a long time now, the different is now you have to plan around them.

It's only on boards that I come across as a cheerleader for the JC, because I see so much resistance to change and misinformation. In real life, I have my grumbles about it, but my colleagues and I are getting on with it.

judeboy101

Finally!!! The ASTI have taken action!!

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/r270/17155826_1452266428139689_650747467625002722_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=881e24ce6d84cda354c9414451c9b65c&oe=5960CB40

Icsics

judeboy101 wrote: »

Finally!!! The ASTI have taken action!!

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/r270/17155826_1452266428139689_650747467625002722_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=881e24ce6d84cda354c9414451c9b65c&oe=5960CB40

This is what teachers would come up with, not industrial relations strategists, which is what is needed now to move forward.

MrJones1973

Cant access that link-what does it Say?

mtoutlemonde

judeboy101 wrote: »

Finally!!! The ASTI have taken action!!

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/r270/17155826_1452266428139689_650747467625002722_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=881e24ce6d84cda354c9414451c9b65c&oe=5960CB40

Richard Bruton hasn't been well since he saw that Can't believe they put that up on their Facebook page. Great progress.

franktennis

Millem wrote: »

Disgraceful. The rep should be reported.

Okay just to confirm once and for all that's it easy to join the TUI and received all the financial benefits of Lansdowne. I've just done it and will be receiving S&S payment backdated and future increments. All one has to do is to sign the consent form on the department website and send it to payroll.

I've given up on the ASTI after 10 years membership. I don't see any strategy at all going forward. If they at least got a year of having a common payscale then that would have satisfied me but they couldn't even arrange that. Then again Bruton doesn't believe that all teachers should be paid the same so where does one go!

MrJones1973

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Richard Bruton hasn't been well since he saw that Can't believe they put that up on their Facebook page. Great progress.

It's a good idea so let's build on it. Strike on it .. Speech by Gen secretary saying redundancies happening because we dared ask for equal pay ??
Kieran needs to get out on the media

evolving_doors

judeboy101 wrote: »

Finally!!! The ASTI have taken action!!

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/r270/17155826_1452266428139689_650747467625002722_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=881e24ce6d84cda354c9414451c9b65c&oe=5960CB40

I'm on the way over to Lansdowne road now to sign up. Are the forms in reception?

judeboy101

franktennis wrote: »

Okay just to confirm once and for all that's it easy to join the TUI and received all the financial benefits of Lansdowne. I've just done it and will be receiving S&S payment backdated and future increments. All one has to do is to sign the consent form on the department website and send it to payroll.

I've given up on the ASTI after 10 years membership. I don't see any strategy at all going forward. If they at least got a year of having a common payscale then that would have satisfied me but they couldn't even arrange that. Then again Bruton doesn't believe that all teachers should be paid the same so where does one go!

Did you tick yes or no to "are you at present or have you ever been a member of any other union"?

mtoutlemonde

franktennis wrote: »

Okay just to confirm once and for all that's it easy to join the TUI and received all the financial benefits of Lansdowne. I've just done it and will be receiving S&S payment backdated and future increments. All one has to do is to sign the consent form on the department website and send it to payroll.

I've given up on the ASTI after 10 years membership. I don't see any strategy at all going forward. If they at least got a year of having a common payscale then that would have satisfied me but they couldn't even arrange that. Then again Bruton doesn't believe that all teachers should be paid the same so where does one go!

I don't think you'll be the only one. I will consider it as well next year if there isn't any fight from the ASTI as I'll be eligible for a CID hopefully. Just to confirm I voted yes and have seen nothing from ASTI only a silly poster hanging out of a window.

franktennis

judeboy101 wrote: »

Did you tick yes or no to "are you at present or have you ever been a member of any other union"?

I ticked yes

mtoutlemonde

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

It's a good idea so let's build on it. Strike on it .. Speech by Gen secretary saying redundancies happening because we dared ask for equal pay ??
Kieran needs to get out on the media

If that's all they can do then I'm off to TUI because I can worry about myself, get paid for S&S, get my increments and be eligible for CID. It is a ridiculous move and a slap in the face to its members.

judeboy101

franktennis wrote: »

I ticked yes

Yes and they have given you official confirmation that they have accepted you?

franktennis

judeboy101 wrote: »

Yes and they have given you official confirmation that they have accepted you?

Yes . I've sent back my bank details after acceptance.

judeboy101

franktennis wrote: »

Yes . I've sent back my bank details after acceptance.

Wow, I just find it hard to believe that a tui branch meeting would accept an asti member during a dispute.

mtoutlemonde

judeboy101 wrote: »

Wow, I just find it hard to believe that a tui branch meeting would accept an asti member during a dispute.

Yeah I thought it was an ICTU ruling - looks like TUI is going to grow in numbers if this is the case.

franktennis

judeboy101 wrote: »

Wow, I just find it hard to believe that a tui branch meeting would accept an asti member during a dispute.

Don't be. You can change unions during a dispute. I think we had 11 ASTI members up to 2 weeks ago and now just 5 left.

judeboy101

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Yeah I thought it was an ICTU ruling - looks like TUI is going to grow in numbers if this is the case.

Depends how you look at it. I'd rather fight on the frontline with those I trust, than with ppl who run at the first sign of blood.

joebloggs32

franktennis wrote: »

Yes . I've sent back my bank details after acceptance.

Not asking what branch, but have you been accepted into one, or is it just that hq have asked you to fill in the DAS form?
You are not in unless a branch ratifies it.

mtoutlemonde

judeboy101 wrote: »

Depends how you look at it. I'd rather fight on the frontline with those I trust, than with ppl who run at the first sign of blood.

They've gone into hiding though. They're only concentrating on redundancies and are waiting until then to act. The JC is coming and English teachers now have to submit a portfolio when at this stage of the year, should be used for revision/perfecting answers etc. The new JC English paper is being examined this year with some teachers never having attended in service and the ones who did unhappy with the content because the tutors didn't know what they're talking about. There should have been immediate strike action after the ballot. We are probably going to go into LR now so we should have just went in with TUI and INTO and got paid for s&s, no strike days, increments and two year CID. I'm very disappointed with the ASTI - going to leave it another few weeks and if there is no progress - I'm out. This is going on all year and all we hear is 'talks' with no results except a poster hanging out a window. If the bus drivers / LUAS drivers / guards / nurses have union that fight and get results - why don't the ASTI. I also don't have confidence in Ed Byrne - he doesn't handle the public the way Pat King did or Kieran Christie. As well as a fighter, we need an articulate leader.

SligoBrewer

franktennis wrote: »

Don't be. You can change unions during a dispute. I think we had 11 ASTI members up to 2 weeks ago and now just 5 left.

Thanks for the help in fighting the fight by leaving a union when people decide to stand up for equality and joining a union who are happy to label me and my LPT colleagues as second class teachers.

amacca

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I also don't have confidence in Ed Byrne - he doesn't handle the public the way Pat King did or Kieran Christie. As well as a fighter, we need an articulate leader.

I wasn't sure I agreed with some of your other posts but I definitely have to disagree on the above

I thought Pat King didn't get many points across at all any time I seen him...in any televised debate or radio interview he always came across as insipid, meek, mild and conciliatory....nearly rolling over to have his belly scratched by whatever govt flunky was rolled out to debate him...at least that was my perception

while I wouldn't be overly enthused with the performance of Byrne or Christie they do at least argue the point and back up their statements + correct the mixture of downright inflammatory an wilful misinformation filled drivel flung at them by interviewers and govt representatives at times....particularly Byrne, he at least debates rather than obfuscates and doesn't allow misinformation and half truths to pass without challenge or correction...even if at times he does seem to miss glaring opportunities for points scoring or really making govt spokespeople/propagandists squirm with a well chosen question or two regarding the motivations/justifications for their "reforms" ..........reforms, what a complete misnomer for whats happening imo

franktennis

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Thanks for the help in fighting the fight by leaving a union when people decide to stand up for equality and joining a union who are happy to label me and my LPT colleagues as second class teachers.

Ya it's all my fault.

franktennis

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Not asking what branch, but have you been accepted into one, or is it just that hq have asked you to fill in the DAS form?
You are not in unless a branch ratifies it.

I've been accepted into branch

mtoutlemonde

amacca wrote: »

I wasn't sure I agreed with some of your other posts but I definitely have to disagree on the above

I thought Pat King didn't get many points across at all any time I seen him...in any televised debate or radio interview he always came across as insipid, meek, mild and conciliatory....nearly rolling over to have his belly scratched by whatever govt flunky was rolled out to debate him...at least that was my perception

while I wouldn't be overly enthused with the performance of Byrne or Christie they do at least argue the point and back up their statements + correct the mixture of downright inflammatory an wilful misinformation filled drivel flung at them by interviewers and govt representatives at times....particularly Byrne, he at least debates rather than obfuscates and doesn't allow misinformation and half truths to pass without challenge or correction...even if at times he does seem to miss glaring opportunities for points scoring or really making govt spokespeople/propagandists squirm with a well chosen question or two regarding the motivations/justifications for their "reforms" ..........reforms, what a complete misnomer for whats happening imo

Well neither of them are great but they were more articulate than Ed Byrne - in my minds eye - I just see a 'commoner' and the others laughing at him. For an educated man - he doesn't show it well.