Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

SligoBrewer

franktennis wrote: »

Ya it's all my fault.

franktennis wrote: »

I agree. Free periods where I can plan and be more productive and free lunch for mental well being. Yes money is important but for once let's stick together for this one and see how it plays out. Great progress today and two ballots to come. The equal pay ballot for all has to happen. when we get it which I think is a certainly within the next year.

deiseindublin

I'm not an ASTI member but those that are should be ringing head office en masse to ask about the agreement between the unions. Only they can follow up on it.

feardeas

deiseindublin wrote:

I'm not an ASTI member but those that are should be ringing head office en masse to ask about the agreement between the unions. Only they can follow up on it.

It might be more worthwhile for them to ask about the plan the ASTI have in relation to resolving the dispute their union are involved in.

deiseindublin

I presume that's still being decided feardeas, CEC meeting coming up?

There's an agreement about moving unions, surely ASTI HQ should be following up if it's not being followed.

evolving_doors

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Well neither of them are great but they were more articulate than Ed Byrne - in my minds eye - I just see a 'commoner' and the others laughing at him. For an educated man - he doesn't show it well.

Ahhh it's just cos he has a Dublin accent.

evolving_doors

feardeas wrote: »

It might be more worthwhile for them to ask about the plan the ASTI have in relation to resolving the dispute their union are involved in.

I think the plan was to hang a banner out the window.... and then.... roll some tumbleweed and take a photo of it.

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ahhh it's just cos he has a Dublin accent.

Maybe that's it but loads of 'talks' without a plan he's doing us all a disservice - I would wonder why we pay for them to protect us when they don't.

man_no_plan

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I think the plan was to hang a banner out the window.... and then.... roll some tumbleweed and take a photo of it.

The worst thing to do would be to do nothing!

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I think the plan was to hang a banner out the window.... and then.... roll some tumbleweed and take a photo of it.

Do you think the plan could be written on the other side and they turned out the wrong side?

judeboy101

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I think the plan was to hang a banner out the window.... and then.... roll some tumbleweed and take a photo of it.

ASTI HQ are playing some 6-D chess, they are so far beyond our level of comprehension. Trust the 'Ed' and he will lead us to the promised land.

acequion

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Fair play to you for finding and posting the earlier comment by that poster SligoBrewer. I find the turncoat behaviour of such people so beneath contempt that I don't trust myself to say more.

But it proves a point I was making earlier in the week.A lot of teachers don't have the bottle or the integrity to see out a dispute which is why we rarely get anywhere. And rather than man up and admit as much, they try to blame it on the union.

franktennis

acequion wrote: »

Fair play to you for finding and posting the earlier comment by that poster SligoBrewer. I find the turncoat behaviour of such people so beneath contempt that I don't trust myself to say more.

But it proves a point I was making earlier in the week.A lot of teachers don't have the bottle or the integrity to see out a dispute which is why we rarely get anywhere. And rather than man up and admit as much, they try to blame it on the union.

Yes at one time I was all for it. The union had bottle and a backbone last year. The timeline of strikes was well planned. Withdrawing S and S was used as backup which I liked. I could have stayed out everyday if it led to change but the plan was in tatters after a couple of weeks. My real change of mind came during those 4 weeks of secret talks after Xmas and still nothing. Then I gave up. What the hell were they doing in there for 4 weeks !!

The ASTI must be bleeding members at this stage due to inaction. Lobbying politicians seems to be the strategy these days. It's pathetic. I'm not sure if we will ever see a common payscale ever again. The economy is expected to grow by an average of 3-4% over the next 5 years according to the ESRI and yet FEMPI is still being used. When will that ever end I wonder. CAO numbers for teachers has also dropped this year. I wonder why. The ASTI will have to join the next agreement whether they like it or not and build change from within.

SligoBrewer

ASTI only has a backbone if its members have a backbone.

That comment took 30 seconds to find.

MrJones1973

franktennis wrote: »

Yes at one time I was all for it. The union had bottle and a backbone last year. The timeline of strikes was well planned. Withdrawing S and S was used as backup which I liked. I could have stayed out everyday if it led to change but the plan was in tatters after a couple of weeks. My real change of mind came during those 4 weeks of secret talks after Xmas and still nothing. Then I gave up. What the hell were they doing in there for 4 weeks !!

The ASTI must be bleeding members at this stage due to inaction. Lobbying politicians seems to be the strategy these days. It's pathetic. I'm not sure if we will ever see a common payscale ever again. The economy is expected to grow by an average of 3-4% over the next 5 years according to the ESRI and yet FEMPI is still being used. When will that ever end I wonder. CAO numbers for teachers has also dropped this year. I wonder why. The ASTI will have to join the next agreement whether they like it or not and build change from within.

Democracy comrades-Democracy. Whether you like it or not-we aint in an agreement. Events are out of all our hands now. CEC-meeting April 1. No joke. I expect that members will be balloted either before the threat of redundancies or after they are initiated. Legal aspects will come into play too.
The ball is in the Departments court as well. Will they carry out redundancies or not? I asked a FG politician and he said no-but thats only one opinion.
None of us here are on SC-we might have one or two CEC members. Its in their hands. I expect a motion to be passed at CEC .
Be stoical-its out of our hands now until next vote. Suck it up!

acequion

franktennis wrote: »

Yes at one time I was all for it. The union had bottle and a backbone last year. The timeline of strikes was well planned. Withdrawing S and S was used as backup which I liked. I could have stayed out everyday if it led to change but the plan was in tatters after a couple of weeks. My real change of mind came during those 4 weeks of secret talks after Xmas and still nothing. Then I gave up. What the hell were they doing in there for 4 weeks !!

The ASTI must be bleeding members at this stage due to inaction. Lobbying politicians seems to be the strategy these days. It's pathetic. I'm not sure if we will ever see a common payscale ever again. The economy is expected to grow by an average of 3-4% over the next 5 years according to the ESRI and yet FEMPI is still being used. When will that ever end I wonder. CAO numbers for teachers has also dropped this year. I wonder why. The ASTI will have to join the next agreement whether they like it or not and build change from within.

The union made a mistake last year.We all know it and they've admitted it. Its nowhere near an acceptable excuse for being a turncoat. And sorry but no the ASTI dont have to join any agreement if the members dont want to sign up.As for this business of change from within, thats laughable. Just look at all agreements so far which have given nothing but a worsening of conditions.If you somehow think you're better off in TUI good for you.But do spare us the excuses.

evolving_doors

SligoBrewer wrote: »

ASTI only has a backbone if its members have a backbone.

That comment took 30 seconds to find.

Yes but that backbone has been tested so many times with little organisation and follow through. Last time the appetite for indefinite action was there to force the issue to a head, but union in head office blinked first under the paltry charade of 'talks'.
Everyone knew talks outside LR weren't allowed and Bruton was relishing that. This was a sham, as soon as the ruse was realised it should have been back to plan A.

Where are the ASTI leadership leading us to now?

.... banner outside a window! C'mon like.

That of redundancies is a ruse too. Bruton will probably be gone before any principal delivers a p45, no incoming new minister would follow through.

Threats of redundancies are to keep the ASTI further riled up, busy and outside LR.

Once talks for LR2 commence without ASTI it's checkmate. All faith/appetite will have been lost by ASTI members.... unless serious action is taken... maybe a banner each outside two windows... or some terribly polite lunchtime protests, cos you know... we wouldn't like to upset anyone.

SligoBrewer

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Yes but that backbone has been tested so many times with little organisation and follow through. Last time the appetite for indefinite action was there to force the issue to a head, but union in head office blinked first under the paltry charade of 'talks'.
Everyone knew talks outside LR weren't allowed and Bruton was relishing that. This was a sham, as soon as the ruse was realised it should have been back to plan A.

Where are the ASTI leadership leading us to now?

.... banner outside a window! C'mon like.
That of redundancies is a ruse too. Bruton will probably be gone before any principal delivers a p45, no incoming new minister would follow through.

Threats of redundancies are to keep the ASTI further riled up, busy and outside LR.

Once talks for LR2 commence without ASTI it's checkmate. All faith/appetite will have been lost by ASTI members.... unless serious action is taken... maybe a banner each outside two windows... or some terribly polite lunchtime protests, cos you know... we wouldn't like to upset anyone.

So, you leave and take the money that ASTI have earned but the TUI have claimed? You break ICTU agreements between the two unions to suit your own pay packet and leave your union colleagues for dead for what, less than 40 quid a week. That's some backbone.

evolving_doors

SligoBrewer wrote: »

So, you leave and take the money that ASTI have earned but the TUI have claimed? You break ICTU agreements between the two unions to suit your own pay packet and leave your union colleagues for dead for what, less than 40 quid a week. That's some backbone.

No not me I'm in it till the better end. leaving a union during a dispute to join another union for personal gain is tantamount to crossing a picket.

feardeas

SligoBrewer wrote:

So, you leave and take the money that ASTI have earned but the TUI have claimed? You break ICTU agreements between the two unions to suit your own pay packet and leave your union colleagues for dead for what, less than 40 quid a week. That's some backbone.

How in the name of all that is holy did the ASTI gain anything. Nonsense. Utter and complete nonsense. The TUI and INTO went into talks in August last year, talks which the ASTI declined to enter by virtue of the CP vote in May. That's where the offer came for. The idea that what came from those was gained by the threat of industrial action by ASTI is the definition of an alternative fact.

I was told months ago on this forum that if my views aligned with TUI to join them. Now when someone does that there's a hissy fit. This agreement is a gentlemanly understanding, by all accounts. The public sector committee of Congress accepted LRA. A whole staff left prior to the strike. Heard that from someone on SC while being drenched at the gate on the last strike day.

Good God people the ire should be pointed at the lack of direction. Unless unfurling a banner is direction. I'd say the lads in Molesworth St aren't over the shock yet.

Is it any wonder people are leaving if this is what's happening never mind the derision that was pointed at people who voted yes, 48% BTW.

At the end of the day CEC and SC got their result nearly 6 weeks ago. The only people that can be held responsible for inaction or praised for any possible positive are those committee. Complaining about people leaving, joining another union is as useful as an umbrella in a hurricane.

deiseindublin

feardeas wrote: »

...... people who voted yes, 48% BTW.

feardeas wrote: »

Complaining about people leaving, joining another union is as useful as an umbrella in a hurricane.

Harping on about the 48% figure is equally useful. >50% voted No so it's all water under the bridge.

Icsics

CEC meeting 1st April.....can see this going to a reballot

mtoutlemonde

Icsics wrote: »

CEC meeting 1st April.....can see this going to a reballot

So we can accept LRA - if a reballot is issued - I'm out. How many times do they have to be told? Starting to look like the Nice treaty referendum again.

man_no_plan

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

So we can accept LRA - if a reballot is issued - I'm out. How many times do they have to be told? Starting to look like the Nice treaty referendum again.

ASTI members voted no to the LRA the DES posted clear details of their intentions prior to the ballot.

Now the members are unhappy that the DES are doing wat they said they would do.

The best you could have hoped for was stalemate.

The question of low pay is different and its that really was the poorest call in terms of strategy. Madness!!

mtoutlemonde

man_no_plan wrote: »

ASTI members voted no to the LRA the DES posted clear details of their intentions prior to the ballot.

Now the members are unhappy that the DES are doing wat they said they would do.

The best you could have hoped for was stalemate.

The question of low pay is different and its that really was the poorest call in terms of strategy. Madness!!

No I'm unhappy with the leadership of the ASTI not the DES. It's all talk and no action - at least the DES stood their ground and doing what they said they would do.

man_no_plan

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

No I'm unhappy with the leadership of the ASTI not the DES. It's all talk and no action - at least the DES stood their ground and doing what they said they would do.

I know. What could the ASTI do though? Really? It was never going to be simple. At this stage I can understand the frustration from yourself. The fact remains though that many ASTI members thought that ticking a box was all it would take.

I don't know where the fault lies on this really. There was a recommendation certainly, but members make their own decisions too.

deiseindublin

What has changed to warrant a reballot?

evolving_doors

man_no_plan wrote: »

I know. What could the ASTI do though? Really? It was never going to be simple. At this stage I can understand the frustration from yourself. The fact remains though that many ASTI members thought that ticking a box was all it would take.

I don't know where the fault lies on this really. There was a recommendation certainly, but members make their own decisions too.

Plan A ... withdraw from S&S. I think that's what ASTI originally balloted to do!

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Plan A ... withdraw from S&S. I think that's what ASTI originally balloted to do!

Yes I agree - they/we should have kept the fight going with s&s. If it were me, I would withdraw from s&s after Easter - they now have a month - it would seriously hamper the dates for orals/practicals but it would a be a definite threat - one which the DES would have to adhere to in order to keep their dates in order.

acequion

The posts tonight range from pure fiction to downright idiocy.

Take a look at this one for a piece of fiction:

Icsics wrote: »

CEC meeting 1st April.....can see this going to a reballot

And look at how fast a figment of the mind, a piece of idle conjecture, gains traction:

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

So we can accept LRA - if a reballot is issued - I'm out. How many times do they have to be told? Starting to look like the Nice treaty referendum again.

I'd say a re-ballot at this stage is as fantastical as Enda Kenny moving into the White House! Total fabrication!

But the prize for downright lunacy has to go to this post:

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

No I'm unhappy with the leadership of the ASTI not the DES. It's all talk and no action - at least the DES stood their ground and doing what they said they would do.

Really! You're not unhappy with the DES,the crowd who have run your working conditions into the ground,but you're very unhappy with the ASTI, whoever those dreadful people are, for having the gall to try to stand up for you. Wow! Some trade unionist you are!

SligoBrewer

At least she's in the union to be fair.