Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

Grueller

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

From What I have gathered no motion is before CEC about LR2 but a motion will emerge. This CEC meeting was not organised by a branch, That's bull****. SC made the running here but it was likely to happen via 25 CEC signatures.

What will emerge out of CEC i Have no idea. I would prefer a few strike days in May and withdrawal of s and in May or September. However, I dont see this as likely. A re ballot could happen but CEC has not been called to discuss a re ballot

Having had a minor car accident today I could use that LR money!

Hope everyone is OK after the fender bender.

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

From What I have gathered no motion is before CEC about LR2 but a motion will emerge. This CEC meeting was not organised by a branch, That's bull****. SC made the running here but it was likely to happen via 25 CEC signatures.

What will emerge out of CEC i Have no idea. I would prefer a few strike days in May and withdrawal of s and in May or September. However, I dont see this as likely. A re ballot could happen but CEC has not been called to discuss a re ballot

Having had a minor car accident today I could use that LR money!

Glad to see us back on the same wavelength Mrwhite and it's kind of funny to see you defending the union when that's been my role all along

But I completely second everything you say above because I've also been making enquiries and found out exactly the same. It's amazing how rumours grow legs and get exaggerated, that said, a motion to reballot could still be put before CEC but hopefully if that happens it will get voted down.It seems that a lot of even conservative minded people are against it seeing it as anti democratic,which of course it is. It's preposterous! However, these are high stakes times and there are a fair few pro LRA people in CEC so you just never know. But at least there will be a good and hopefully productive debate on where we are headed.

However whatever is decided there's no doubt that it will be a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. We have so many critics, the most dangerous within our own ranks, however for all that I'm far happier to still be outside the strait jacket of the the LRA and the JCT, despite what some TUI people would have us believe. And I also disagree with this notion that the Govt don't want us in LRA. Of course they want us there and of course the fact that we're not is a big thorn in their side. Don't ever forget that this is a weak minority Govt.

So, as long as we're not reballoting which would be game over, the biggest challenge is pacifying the members and devising a plan of action. Choppy waters!

MrJones1973

Grueller wrote: »

Hope everyone is OK after the fender bender.

Just scrapped the other car so could cost a couple of hundred. A couple of hundred I don't really have. But such is life. Could have been worse and they seem reasonable people.

MrJones1973

At this point I'm happy to accept whatever the CEC decides. I don't want a reballot but they are mandated by their branches so I will respect democracy. I got up on my high horse before and don't intend doing so again. It sucks too much out of me

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Just scrapped the other car so could cost a couple of hundred. A couple of hundred I don't really have. But such is life. Could have been worse and they seem reasonable people.

Dash cam, best 50 quid I ever spent.

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

At this point I'm happy to accept whatever the CEC decides. I don't want a reballot but they are mandated by their branches so I will respect democracy. I got up on my high horse before and don't intend doing so again. It sucks too much out of me

A reballot is NOT democracy! I won't accept it!

MrJones1973

acequion wrote: »

A reballot is NOT democracy! I won't accept it!

You dont have to accept it but the CEC has the right to ask for a reballot. I wont be voting Yes. It would be so Irish to reballot. I have contacted the four SC people I know and specfically made the argument against a re ballot. Its not respecting the outcome of last ballot.

Remember Democracy can be abused and re balloting is an abuse but you cant deny the right to reballot . Personally I would have a rule that no re ballot unless something has changed but their is no rule.

Pinkycharm

Lots of unrest in my school at the moment, we've 5 that we're waiting on CIDs this year and the rep is begging them to stay put- she's full sure there will be a re ballot and it will work in their favour

acequion

Pinkycharm wrote: »

Lots of unrest in my school at the moment, we've 5 that we're waiting on CIDs this year and the rep is begging them to stay put- she's full sure there will be a re ballot and it will work in their favour

Well I'd go back and tell her that she has little reason to be so confident. Talks of a reballot are greatly exaggerated. There was a ballot less than 8 weeks ago where a majority said No. A democratic decision. If people don't like that decision,tough!

SligoBrewer

Pinkycharm wrote: »

Lots of unrest in my school at the moment, we've 5 that we're waiting on CIDs this year and the rep is begging them to stay put- she's full sure there will be a re ballot and it will work in their favour

I'm due a CID too, but I'm also due full pay equality.

judeboy101

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I'm due a CID too, but I'm also due full pay equality.

I'm due a CID too, but I'm also due full pay equality.

This needs to be sent to every nervous nelly in the asti

MrJones1973

Lets face an unplesant fact-unless ASTI went out for 2-3 weeks no pay equality is on the way-not even a timetable. Talking to a Tesco worker who was out for 2 weeks (strike) and he was laughing at us. All striking employees were advised to tell their banks-no mortgage this month and the banks were fine. I do accept that some teachers might be on the edge debt wise-especially single parents- but the way some teachers went on-you think the Roman Empire was about to collapse!

Given teachers deal with some really difficult pupils its surprising they are o weak but to fair after Nov some obviously realized the General's horse had no rider and took fright.

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Lets face an unplesant fact-unless ASTI went out for 2-3 weeks no pay equality is on the way-not even a timetable. Talking to a Tesco worker who was out for 2 weeks (strike) and he was laughing at us. All striking employees were advised to tell their banks-no mortgage this month and the banks were fine. I do accept that some teachers might be on the edge debt wise-especially single parents- but the way some teachers went on-you think the Roman Empire was about to collapse!

Given teachers deal with some really difficult pupils its surprising they are o weak but to fair after Nov some obviously realized the General's horse had no rider and took fright.

I'm not surprised. Teachers are extremely conservative by nature and will always return to the status quo. Being at serious odds with the establishment doesn't suit them at all especially if its drawn out over a period of time as is the current situation. In fact this desire to not stand out,to stay within safe limits, is an overall characteristic of public servants in general. When you ask youngsters why on earth they want to be teachers most point to the holidays and the safe job. So if the majority were willing to really put it up to the employer and risk their ass they'd hardly be in the job they're in in the first place. Not all are like that obviously but a lot and probably most.

MrJones1973

acequion wrote: »

I'm not surprised. Teachers are extremely conservative by nature and will always return to the status quo. Being at serious odds with the establishment doesn't suit them at all especially if its drawn out over a period of time as is the current situation. In fact this desire to not stand out,to stay within safe limits, is an overall characteristic of public servants in general. When you ask youngsters why on earth they want to be teachers most point to the holidays and the safe job. So if the majority were willing to really put it up to the employer and risk their ass they'd hardly be in the job they're in in the first place. Not all are like that obviously but a lot and probably most.

There is some truth in what you say but ASTI always seem to be last union standing . I think we are passive aggressive!

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

There is some truth in what you say but ASTI always seem to be last union standing . I think we are passive aggressive!

I reckon the input of the fightback group, plus their very persuasive and informative facebook page, has a lot to do with us being the last union standing.If there were such a presence in other unions we probably wouldn't be the only ones outside.

deiseindublin

There is TUI Grassroots too, smaller following though.

acequion

deiseindublin wrote: »

There is TUI Grassroots too, smaller following though.

Yes indeed there is and I'd like to see them get a stronger foothold.

MrJones1973

Anyway what will be will be. Let's see what happens Saturday.

gaiscioch

We all just received Circular Letter 0020/2017:

Teachers not covered by the Public Service Stability Agreement 2013 – 2018
(Haddington Road Agreement/ Lansdowne Road Agreement)
9. For the avoidance of doubt, teachers who are not covered by the Public Service Stability Agreement do not receive the €1,000 increase or the restoration described above. The current pay scales for teachers who are not covered by the Public Service Stability
Agreement remain in place and are re-stated at Appendix 1 for ease of reference.

If you scroll down, you find the difference in pay scales. It seems those of us outside HRA/LRA do not receive the €1000 "extra" or the "restoration"
(if applicable), but we will still get our increment from tomorrow. Is this correct?

deiseindublin

I don't know how there's not a legal challenge to these punitive anti-union clauses. We didn't need to vote to get into FEMPI so why do we have to have collective bargaining to unwind it.

The doctors fought similar and won.

man_no_plan

gaiscioch wrote: »

We all just received Circular Letter 0020/2017:



If you scroll down, you find the difference in pay scales. It seems those of us outside HRA/LRA do not receive the €1000 "extra" or the "restoration"
(if applicable), but we will still get our increment from tomorrow. Is this correct?

No increment if not in the LRA.

judeboy101

gaiscioch wrote: »

We all just received Circular Letter 0020/2017:



If you scroll down, you find the difference in pay scales. It seems those of us outside HRA/LRA do not receive the €1000 "extra" or the "restoration"
(if applicable), but we will still get our increment from tomorrow. Is this correct?

You don't miss what you never had. Worth every penny not to do CP hrs

solerina

possibly off the point but if we got the money that they steal (imo) from us every month in the pension related deduction this 1000 wouldn't seem so bad. I looked at 115 deducted from todays pay for this crazy 'tax'.

acequion

deiseindublin wrote: »

I don't know how there's not a legal challenge to these punitive anti-union clauses. We didn't need to vote to get into FEMPI so why do we have to have collective bargaining to unwind it.

The doctors fought similar and won.

Totally agree. How it's legal and they're still using FEMPI is beyond me. But how did the doctors manage to win?

deiseindublin

Not the same as such but consultants on 25% less challenging in the courts.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/consultants-to-launch-court-challenge-to-two-tier-pay-structure-1.2903210

Also, Junior doctors went to ECJ on working hours on won after banging their head against a brick wall here for a few years.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/state-facing-fines-up-to-100m-after-finding-on-doctors-hours-1.2145306
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/ruling-on-working-hours-could-have-serious-implications-for-hospitals-1.2145512

acequion

Would someone remind me please what the nurses got in their recent deal? Thanks.

judeboy101

How come we cant do a wild cat strike at etb schools? No sign of bus drivers being rounded up to spike island after their stunt this morn.

evolving_doors

judeboy101 wrote: »

How come we cant do a wild cat strike at etb schools? No sign of bus drivers being rounded up to spike island after their stunt this morn.

The best ASTI can do is a lunchtime protest ... and continue on to do S&S for free... refuse 2 year cid's
That'll really put manners on the minister.

Oh wait, we also really annoyed the public by hanging that banner from a window.

Take that Rory Quinn... and Jan O sullivan... and Richard Bruton... and the next minister who takes up the retirement post once enda leaves.

Pi55 up
Brewery
Could not be organised
By asti

deiseindublin

Really wondering what tomorrow might bring. I'm hoping it'll bring something anyway.

acequion

Gebgbegb wrote: »

The best ASTI can do is a lunchtime protest ... and continue on to do S&S for free... refuse 2 year cid's
That'll really put manners on the minister.

Oh wait, we also really annoyed the public by hanging that banner from a window.

Take that Rory Quinn... and Jan O sullivan... and Richard Bruton... and the next minister who takes up the retirement post once enda leaves.

Pi55 up
Brewery
Could not be organised
By asti

And have you done your bit to make the asti work more effectively?

Why don't you just leave if you have so little confidence in your union?