Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

Liberal_irony

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Well, it has to be asked-what has the ASTI achieved ?

Even less pay for lpts and a longer wait to permanence at the moment.

deiseindublin

judeboy101 wrote: »

The faux-outrage from INTO and TUI conferences about equal pay is laughable. You'd swear they didn't have an opportunity in the last year to do something about it!!

I had just this reaction today when I heard Irwin on the news.

SligoBrewer

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Well, it has to be asked-what has the ASTI achieved ?

As an LPT I'm happy that the union is at least accepting that they won't sign up to any pay agreement that continues to labels me as a second class teacher.

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Well, it has to be asked-what has the ASTI achieved ?

We are the only public servants that don't have to do croke park hours, that is some achievement.

MrJones1973

Yes but you aint going to fight the Government on Croke park hours all by ourselves. Id like a plan on equal pay. How are we to proceed?

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Yes but you aint going to fight the Government on Croke park hours all by ourselves. Id like a plan on equal pay. How are we to proceed?

What fight? We won on CP hours, we don't do them everyone else does. Education system didn't collapse due to our decision not to do them anymore, despite what Sonderfuhrer Bruton said.

MrJones1973

Ì had problems with Croke park hours but Im not willing to be down a couple of grand over them. Pay equality yes. Croke park hours no

I would also like a serious debate on the lack of senior Management in schools. The government offer was waffle. Leadership teams. The only way I see progress on anything is
1) No s and S from september-announced in May
2) Seven days of strikes starting in September


Unless both happen no real progress on anything.

TheDriver

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I would also like a serious debate on the lack of senior Management in schools.

I don't get your point here? We have senior management in form of p and DP plus extra DP are now being appointed to qualifying schools. Middle management however needs review and support in form of Assis Principals

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Ì had problems with Croke park hours but Im not willing to be down a couple of grand over them. Pay equality yes. Croke park hours no

I would also like a serious debate on the lack of senior Management in schools. The government offer was waffle. Leadership teams. The only way I see progress on anything is
1) No s and S from september-announced in May
2) Seven days of strikes starting in September


Unless both happen no real progress on anything.

On your death bed if someone would offer you €50,000 or 1400 hours more with your friends or family, which would you take? Id rather have 1400 hours more with my grandparents rather than 50k which would-be taxed to the hilt. Money comes and goes but time is precious.

doc_17

TheDriver wrote: »

I don't get your point here? We have senior management in form of p and DP plus extra DP are now being appointed to qualifying schools. Middle management however needs review and support in form of Assis Principals

Not all schools even have a non-teaching deputy at the min never get an another one. The problem this will bring for the smaller schools is thatvbiw the dept will heap extra administrative work in the direction of all schools. Bigger ones will be more resourced than smaller ones.

km79

#ASTI17 Motion to suspend the day's business and have private session for strategy on pay and JC reform passes by overwhelming majority.

Massive few hours ahead now
Future of the union depends on what comes out of this session
If there is no clear strategy after this we can forget about it

mtoutlemonde

km79 wrote: »

#ASTI17 Motion to suspend the day's business and have private session for strategy on pay and JC reform passes by overwhelming majority.

Massive few hours ahead now
Future of the union depends on what comes out of this session
If there is no clear strategy after this we can forget about it

100% Correct - if they don't have the answers now - we might as well start filling in our TUI membership forms. We've waited and waited for a definite strategy and most people said it would happen at congress - well here we are - fingers crossed.

judeboy101

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

100% Correct - if they don't have the answers now - we might as well start filling in our TUI membership forms. We've waited and waited for a definite strategy and most people said it would happen at congress - well here we are - fingers crossed.

My money is on a vigorous letter writing campaign and a bigger poster on the front of HQ

MrJones1973

Hey Jude that made me laugh. Sorry I meant middle Mgt which are by now on the ropes in many schools. I think a lot of teachers with kids want cash now, Ireland expensive place to live. We have a state that cant provide housing. A state with exorbitant childcare costs, A state without a poilicy to bring down car insurance costs. I have two kids. Would shudder at the cost of more!

Thus an hour a week vs 5k in my case? No brainier but Im out on a limb over Pay equality and JC bull****

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Hey Jude that made me laugh. Sorry I meant middle Mgt which are by now on the ropes in many schools. I think a lot of teachers with kids want cash now, Ireland expensive place to live. We have a state that cant provide housing. A state with exorbitant childcare costs, A state without a poilicy to bring down car insurance costs. I have two kids. Would shudder at the cost of more!

Thus an hour a week vs 5k in my case? No brainier but Im out on a limb over Pay equality and JC bull****

I'm down a s h i t ton as well with a couple of little parasites at home to boot. But I've seen them more this year than any other due to lack of CP and when they pupate to teenagers they wont want to know me. So I'm happy for no CP ��

evolving_doors

With LR2 on the way I doubt CP hrs will be ever written out. The govt are getting extra work in other sectors for free, so if anything they'll be consolidated into terms and conditions. It's the same argument as abolishing USC) any reduction will be declared as a 'cutback to govt. spending'.

So the question is... if asti want in to LR2 then at the very least the Dept. are going to come lookin for their pound of flesh.

Or it'll be all wrapped up into one last vote.
CP+JC+SS=LR2

judeboy101

Gebgbegb wrote: »

With LR2 on the way I doubt CP hrs will be ever written out. The govt are getting extra work in other sectors for free, so if anything they'll be consolidated into terms and conditions. It's the same argument as abolishing USC) any reduction will be declared as a 'cutback to govt. spending'.

So the question is... if asti want in to LR2 then at the very least the Dept. are going to come lookin for their pound of flesh.

Or it'll be all wrapped up into one last vote.
CP+JC+SS=LR2

My issue with CP hours is they represent the movement of teaching away from classroom. Coupled with decreased teaching time envisaged under new JC, it dilutes or primary function. I see the amount of paperwork guards and nurses and primary teachers have to do now compared to years ago and I shudder.

mtoutlemonde

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Hey Jude that made me laugh. Sorry I meant middle Mgt which are by now on the ropes in many schools. I think a lot of teachers with kids want cash now, Ireland expensive place to live. We have a state that cant provide housing. A state with exorbitant childcare costs, A state without a poilicy to bring down car insurance costs. I have two kids. Would shudder at the cost of more!

Thus an hour a week vs 5k in my case? No brainier but Im out on a limb over Pay equality and JC bull****

With some of those we are fighting for transferring to TUI or staying out of the unions altogether. It was frightening to hear from that lady on the news saying that her school had gone from 49 members to 19. Now is the time Ed and co did something to rectify this or it will be the end of the ASTI.

I am still prepared to fight for the JC reforms however, but again as I can't attend training I don't know the positives (if any).

evolving_doors

judeboy101 wrote: »

My issue with CP hours is they represent the movement of teaching away from classroom. Coupled with decreased teaching time envisaged under new JC, it dilutes or primary function. I see the amount of paperwork guards and nurses and primary teachers have to do now compared to years ago and I shudder.

Aye I agree, but wrap that up with:
1. A junior cert which we'll all be teaching anyway.
2. S&S which ASTI are currently doing for free now anyway.
3. A token realignment to old payscales.
4. 2 yr CIDs for all (which really wouldn't cost the Dept that much anyway)

Put it to one last vote and I'd say it'll be a yes.

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Aye I agree, but wrap that up with:
1. A junior cert which we'll all be teaching anyway.
2. S&S which ASTI are currently doing for free now anyway.
3. A token realignment to old payscales.
4. 2 yr CIDs for all (which really wouldn't cost the Dept that much anyway)

Put it to one last vote and I'd say it'll be a yes.

If that happens - I'm out and I can see others doing the same. Is it the end of the road for the ASTI?

judeboy101

I'll believe it when I see it http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0419/868644-teacher-conferences/

joebloggs32

judeboy101 wrote: »

I'll believe it when I see it http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0419/868644-teacher-conferences/

You do realise that the TUI began campaigning on this issue before the Asti. We have chipped away at the gap and will continue to push for an end to it.

evolving_doors

judeboy101 wrote: »

I'll believe it when I see it http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0419/868644-teacher-conferences/

I thought that taking part in industrial action was breaking LR !
Why don't TUI put it to a ballot now... rather than October. It'd be a few token strike days and then back to work.. a la ASTI. Then 'talks' then promises to look into it... then before you know it that year is over.

MrJones1973

A good motion must come out of Asti but I am sick saying it, unless we go on strike for a few weeks this will go nowhere and run out of steam. If the government snooker Asti into another ballot through LR 2 it's over unless you strike.
The government are looking at the Asti now as a hamster on a wheel.

judeboy101

joebloggs32 wrote: »

You do realise that the TUI began campaigning on this issue before the Asti. We have chipped away at the gap and will continue to push for an end to it.

I thank you and your fellow TUI members for the tremendous personal, professional and financial sacrifices you have made in delivering equality in the education sector and, might I add, the unwavering support and solidarity you have shown to your brothers and sisters in the ASTI.

Notorious

judeboy101 wrote: »

I thank you and your fellow TUI members for the tremendous personal, professional and financial sacrifices you have made in delivering equality in the education sector and, might I add, the unwavering support and solidarity you have shown to your brothers and sisters in the ASTI.

You know that many TUI members voted to remain outside of LR with the ASTI? An big issue with TUI membership it the amount of members who work in PLCs (predominantly older staff) and who the new JC and pay parity does not effect.

Anyway, I'm delighted that there's going to be a TUI ballot on pay parity. I don't know why we have to wait until September for a ballot; maybe the executive are hoping to turn screws on the Dept of Ed and for parity to be solved sooner rather than later?

joebloggs32

judeboy101 wrote: »

I thank you and your fellow TUI members for the tremendous personal, professional and financial sacrifices you have made in delivering equality in the education sector and, might I add, the unwavering support and solidarity you have shown to your brothers and sisters in the ASTI.

Your welcome!

joebloggs32

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I thought that taking part in industrial action was breaking LR !
Why don't TUI put it to a ballot now... rather than October. It'd be a few token strike days and then back to work.. a la ASTI. Then 'talks' then promises to look into it... then before you know it that year is over.

The motion concerns the current talks for the new upcoming pay deal, so effectively it would be balloting if this new deal does not address this issue. We would be able to commence industrial action if needed once the new deal kicks in.

evolving_doors

joebloggs32 wrote: »

The motion concerns the current talks for the new upcoming pay deal, so effectively it would be balloting if this new deal does not address this issue. We would be able to commence industrial action if needed once the new deal kicks in.

It's all a bit moot though, by its very nature any new deal will have leanings towards pay parity (in some shape or fashion). What's the point of LR2 if there's no concessions. This is a given.

Once lr2 talks offer this then TUI can claim it was all their sabre rattling this easter what done it. Members will gladly take LR2. Like they took lr1.
But hey maybe TUI and its members are playing a better more patient game of wait and see whilst ASTI are out in the cold (literally!) and down on pay.

man_no_plan

Gebgbegb wrote: »

It's all a bit moot though, by its very nature any new deal will have leanings towards pay parity (in some shape or fashion). What's the point of LR2 if there's no concessions. This is a given.

Once lr2 talks offer this then TUI can claim it was all their sabre rattling this easter what done it. Members will gladly take LR2. Like they took lr1.
But hey maybe TUI and its members are playing a better more patient game of wait and see whilst ASTI are out in the cold (literally!) and down on pay.

Well we are in the LRA until July 2018. FEMPI will surely be dead by then!

The two unions want the same thing, going about it different ways.