Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

political analyst

Talks are expected to conclude this week.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1128/835047-teachers/

judeboy101

Grab your lube of choice and assume the position http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1129/835141-teachers-talks-education/

km79

judeboy101 wrote: »

Grab your lube of choice and assume the position http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1129/835141-teachers-talks-education/

I've a feeling there will be a lot of angry Asti members soon

feardeas

km79 wrote:

I've a feeling there will be a lot of angry Asti members soon

That will be new!!!

Icsics

Surely we'll have the usual leak from SC

damemcd

.......any sign of de oul leak there ....anyone?

MrJones1973

judeboy101 wrote: »

Grab your lube of choice and assume the position http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1129/835141-teachers-talks-education/

This made laugh our loud .Oh so true

judeboy101

damemcd wrote: »

.......any sign of de oul leak there ....anyone?

Here ya go

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asti-to-consider-proposals-aimed-at-ending-industrial-action-1.2886233

TLDR: Same deal as TUI with bit more for newbies and more flex in CP. Guarantee on New junior cert re assessment and all inside LR

MrJones1973

judeboy101 wrote: »

Here ya go

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asti-to-consider-proposals-aimed-at-ending-industrial-action-1.2886233

TLDR: Same deal as TUI with bit more for newbies and more flex in CP. Guarantee on New junior cert re assessment and all inside LR

Exactly what is different for JC as being taught now in English class ?

km79

judeboy101 wrote: »

Here ya go

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asti-to-consider-proposals-aimed-at-ending-industrial-action-1.2886233

TLDR: Same deal as TUI with bit more for newbies and more flex in CP. Guarantee on New junior cert re assessment and all inside LR

The TUI will also be getting any new deal

implausible

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Exactly what is different for JC as being taught now in English class ?

If there's a guarantee of no assessment for state certification - nothing!

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

The TUI will also be getting any new deal

Tui and into will get bits that affect their members but they wont b voting on it lol. The JC bit has no mention of higher/ord. Plus the big question is, where is the productivity to offset this extra money for nqt/lpt?

implausible

judeboy101 wrote: »

Tui and into will get bits that affect their members but they wont b voting on it lol. The JC bit has no mention of higher/ord. Plus the big question is, where is the productivity to offset this extra money for nqt/lpt?

I'd imagine the only bits TUI and INTO will get will be a bit more flexibility on CP hours and maybe a few quid extra on top of what LPTs are getting in Jan.

Would the productivity not be cooperation with JC reform and s/s and agreement that CP hours are part of contract?

judeboy101

implausible wrote: »

I'd imagine the only bits TUI and INTO will get will be a bit more flexibility on CP hours and maybe a few quid extra on top of what LPTs are getting in Jan.

Would the productivity not be cooperation with JC reform and s/s and agreement that CP hours are part of contract?

Problem with productivity =junior cert is tui already doing that so they cant call it productivity. S&s might be productivity but as tui already doing it for s&s payment again how it can be shown that it is suddenly productivity ??? Id say massive overhall of posts and two tier structure remains forever to offset extra pay for nqt/lpt. Their tier becoming the new payscale in 29 yrs when last pre 11 retires

implausible

judeboy101 wrote: »

Problem with productivity =junior cert is tui already doing that so they cant call it productivity. S&s might be productivity but as tui already doing it for s&s payment again how it can be shown that it is suddenly productivity ??? Id say massive overhall of posts and two tier structure remains forever to offset extra pay for nqt/lpt. Their tier becoming the new payscale in 29 yrs when last pre 11 retires

Yes, but the Govt. moved the goalposts by tying s/s and its payment (under HRA) into the LRA, so technically, they can say it's productivity. Likewise with CP hours, by rolling them into LRA, in my opinion, they've got TUI to agree to productivity in perpetuity.

There was a commitment to "a robust review of in-school management structures" in the agreement, which has only borne fruit in the extra DP positions so far, but the Dept does seem to be aware that something has to be done with posts.

TUI logic behind two tiers instead of three seemed to centre around the hope that the Public Pay Commission would address the remaining issue of inequality.

This is all idle speculation though, any additional productivity will be the sting in the tail.

MrJones1973

Every school should get a couple of extra posts. I want ab opt out for s and s. I think a 70℅ deal for young teachers is acceptable. So long as time scale is short.
But the first One for me is a deal breaker.
However I think members have lost faith in SC. Radical element disappointed that we didn't continue with action. Moderate element shocked we walked into all out even though they perhaps should have realized what withdrawal from s and s entailed.

deiseindublin

Will be interesting when the full details emerge to see what (if anything) extra has been achieved over the TUI deal.

man_no_plan

deiseindublin wrote: »

Will be interesting when the full details emerge to see what (if anything) extra has been achieved over the TUI deal.

It will. Hopefully there's something after the extent of the action. Some of the stuff in the article is lightweight enough though and seems to be what is already there - for example the clarification on assessment for state certification. All we can do now is wait and see.

I note that the times article says that the deal will have to pass the standing committee and the CEC. I would have thought that a condition of the proposed deal would be that there would have to be a ballot of members? This was the case with the guards AFAIK. Can the CEC / standing committee veto every thing under the ASTI rules?

judeboy101

man_no_plan wrote: »

It will. Hopefully there's something after the extent of the action. Some of the stuff in the article is lightweight enough though and seems to be what is already there - for example the clarification on assessment for state certification. All we can do now is wait and see.

I note that the times article says that the deal will have to pass the standing committee and the CEC. I would have thought that a condition of the proposed deal would be that there would have to be a ballot of members? This was the case with the guards AFAIK. Can the CEC / standing committee veto every thing under the ASTI rules?

CEC can

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Every school should get a couple of extra posts. I want ab opt out for s and s. I think a 70℅ deal for young teachers is acceptable. So long as time scale is short.
But the first One for me is a deal breaker.
However I think members have lost faith in SC. Radical element disappointed that we didn't continue with action. Moderate element shocked we walked into all out even though they perhaps should have realized what withdrawal from s and s entailed.

I cant morally vote for 70% equality without a cast iron signed-in-the-popes-and-michael-d's-blood guarantee that the other 30% will be returned by 2018.

evolving_doors

judeboy101 wrote: »

Problem with productivity =junior cert is tui already doing that so they cant call it productivity. S&s might be productivity but as tui already doing it for s&s payment again how it can be shown that it is suddenly productivity ??? Id say massive overhall of posts and two tier structure remains forever to offset extra pay for nqt/lpt. Their tier becoming the new payscale in 29 yrs when last pre 11 retires

But that's predicated on the notion that Lansdowne road will still stand... I think there's mutterings today that Lansdowne Road 2.0 is in the pipeline.

I presume the ASTI wont be at the table for this as they are outside LR1!

acequion

man_no_plan wrote: »

It will. Hopefully there's something after the extent of the action. Some of the stuff in the article is lightweight enough though and seems to be what is already there - for example the clarification on assessment for state certification. All we can do now is wait and see.

I note that the times article says that the deal will have to pass the standing committee and the CEC. I would have thought that a condition of the proposed deal would be that there would have to be a ballot of members? This was the case with the guards AFAIK. Can the CEC / standing committee veto every thing under the ASTI rules?

To my knowledge both can.Which is only right and proper, in my opinion. And the reaction of both will be interesting. If all it is is a watered down version of what's gone before it may not be greeted with much enthusiasm. And having done two terms without the awful CP hours who will want them back?? Personally I could accept all the meetings outside school hours but no more and that would be a deal breaker for me.Flex hours for CPD and some such, forget that!! if they get in now they're in for good.

So I would be voting against anything that isn't a huge improvement and will happily go back out on strike and stay striking if I have to.How other ASTI members feel at this stage is anyone's guess.

So interesting times ahead,I think.

feardeas

Gebgbegb wrote:

I presume the ASTI wont be at the table for this as they are outside LR1!

I would imagine if this deal is accepted we will be in LRA1 though it might be like arriving at a party when everyone is getting their coats.

man_no_plan

Gebgbegb wrote: »

But that's predicted on the notion that Lansdowne road will still stand... I think there's mutterings today that Lansdowne Road 2.0 is in the pipeline.

I presume the ASTI wont be at the table for this as they are outside LR1!

Well according to RTE news tonight Paschal has invited unions yo talks about anomalies arising from the Garda deal. I still can't understand how there was no reaction to the TUI teachers achieving Restoration or the nurses getting the training allowance but anyway...

There will he successor talks in mid next yr he says

judeboy101

Gebgbegb wrote: »

But that's predicted on the notion that Lansdowne road will still stand... I think there's mutterings today that Lansdowne Road 2.0 is in the pipeline.

I presume the ASTI wont be at the table for this as they are outside LR1!

This deal is inside LR1

deiseindublin

man_no_plan wrote: »

Some of the stuff in the article is lightweight enough

I was thinking the same, hopefully it's just lightweight reporting though and the devil is in the detail.

evolving_doors

feardeas wrote: »

I would imagine if this deal is accepted we will be in LRA1 though it might be like arriving at a party when everyone is getting their coats.

judeboy101 wrote: »

This deal is inside LR1

So would I be right in assuming that the TUI/Into are negotiating the details of this deal..... on behalf of the ASTI?

deiseindublin

Have they said on any sources when the documents will be ready for release?

ccazza

deiseindublin wrote: »

Have they said on any sources when the documents will be ready for release?

It said in the Independent that Standing Committee are meeting to discuss it tomorrow so I presume they'll have it then.

man_no_plan

Gebgbegb wrote: »

So would I be right in assuming that the TUI/Into are negotiating the details of this deal..... on behalf of the ASTI?

How would that be the case?