Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

km79

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I cant even see what our plan is....

To wait

For what i do not know

mtoutlemonde

km79 wrote: »

RTÉ also had info from sc meeting before the delegates at convention

We have been told wait for election
Wait till November
Wait till ballot
Wait till weeks after ballot
Wait till convention

Now wait again till September

At this stage a years free s and s will have been given AND the option to opt out will have passed forever
Not to mention the pay increases , increments etc
JC is in and no osnervice received
WHAT IS THE POINT of waiting now
There is no leadership no plan

Nobody can say otherwise now

Tui membership will soar

Yes I've said all of the above before. The waiting time should have been over but we'll obviously have to wait for the TUI to ballot over pay parity and if they strike - we'll go with them. The ASTI fightback have been very quiet of late - have they given up as well?

mtoutlemonde

km79 wrote: »

To wait

For what i do not know

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km79

I was forced into s and s last time had no choice
I would have had the choice this summer
I now will be locked into it again forever due to this new "plan"

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

RTÉ also had info from sc meeting before the delegates at convention

We have been told wait for election
Wait till November
Wait till ballot
Wait till weeks after ballot
Wait till convention

Now wait again till September

At this stage a years free s and s will have been given AND the option to opt out will have passed forever
Not to mention the pay increases , increments etc
JC is in and no osnervice received
WHAT IS THE POINT of waiting now
There is no leadership no plan

Nobody can say otherwise now

Tui membership will soar

I'm happy to wait til Sept and let all the chaff fall away. The union will be more hard core and harder to crack but can cause more damage. Smaller unions have a history in this state of causing serious damage and getting their way. Talks over summer might show pathway to equality but I'm happy to have 5 extra periods a week free nxt yr and no CP hrs.

km79

judeboy101 wrote: »

km79 wrote: »

RTÉ also had info from sc meeting before the delegates at convention

We have been told wait for election
Wait till November
Wait till ballot
Wait till weeks after ballot
Wait till convention

Now wait again till September

At this stage a years free s and s will have been given AND the option to opt out will have passed forever
Not to mention the pay increases , increments etc
JC is in and no osnervice received
WHAT IS THE POINT of waiting now
There is no leadership no plan

Nobody can say otherwise now

Tui membership will soar

I'm happy to wait til Sept and let all the chaff fall away. The union will be more hard core and harder to crack but can cause more damage. Smaller unions have a history in this state of causing serious damage and getting their way. Talks over summer might show pathway to equality but I'm happy to have 5 extra periods a week free nxt yr and no CP hrs.

They will fall away to the OTHER teaching union !
There is no way the Asti can gain anything more from this now
It's been over since November

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

They will fall away to the OTHER teaching union !
There is no way the Asti can gain anything more from this now
It's been over since November

Id be surprized if we lose more than 20% which means more mixed schools which makes any action by us incredibly difficult to be punished on a whole school basis. To use an analogy, one Ebola carrier in a room is easily sorted, one Ebola carrier in croke park on all Ireland fay is an epidemic

MrJones1973

judeboy101 wrote: »

Unless its an all out strike, I don't see the point

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0420/868858-schools_asti/

By September Vlad the impaler will be leader and we can whistle for any pay equality. Tesco workers go out for three weeks. Bus workers for weeks as well. The mighty Asti threatens strike in. ..Four months?! Joke
No doubt talks will occur and another offer will be put. I really doubt we won't be doing s and s in September. Or striking

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

By September Vlad the impaler will be leader and we can whistle for any pay equality. Tesco workers go out for three weeks. Bus workers for weeks as well. The mighty Asti threatens strike in. ..Four months?! Joke
No doubt talks will occur and another offer will be put. I really doubt we won't be doing s and s in September. Or striking

Nah, the boggers wont want lizard Leo, it'll be sexy Simon.

MrJones1973

judeboy101 wrote: »

Nah, the boggers wont want lizard Leo, it'll be sexy Simon.

They could randomly pick any FG TD or FF TD to run us- they are all pretty much the same

BoatMad

km79 wrote: »

They will fall away to the OTHER teaching union !
There is no way the Asti can gain anything more from this now
It's been over since November

+1

evolving_doors

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

They could randomly pick any FG TD or FF TD to run us- they are all pretty much the same

Ruairi... Jan.... Richard... all put in to bide their time before retirement.
It's all about the eternal government... the civil servants. They don't give a twizzlers about getting elected or furthering education. It's just about the budget and busting the unions.

BoatMad

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ruairi... Jan.... Richard... all put in to bide their time before retirement.
It's all about the eternal government... the civil servants. They don't give a twizzlers about getting elected or furthering education. It's just about the budget and busting the unions.

given most of them are in a union, i fail to see your logic.

The simple issue is this, the majority of teachers and teaching unions are inside an agreement and working that agreement

One union is not and persists in thinking it can unilaterally affect change .

this dispute has nothing to do with ministers or civil servants

judeboy101

BoatMad wrote: »

given most of them are in a union, i fail to see your logic.

The simple issue is this, the majority of teachers and teaching unions are inside an agreement and working that agreement

One union is not and persists in thinking it can unilaterally affect change .

this dispute has nothing to do with ministers or civil servants

101 years ago another small group of people didn't follow the status quo and thought it could unilaterally affect change and........

BoatMad

judeboy101 wrote: »

101 years ago another small group of people didn't follow the status quo and thought it could unilaterally affect change and........

caused 10 years of armed instability , a civil war and a conflict in the northern half of this country that persisted for 40 years. The end does not justify the means

and your comparison is not apt to begin with

judeboy101

BoatMad wrote: »

caused 10 years of armed instability , a civil war and a conflict in the northern half of this country that persisted for 40 years. The end does not justify the means

and your comparison is not apt to begin with

There is a reason we have our convention at Easter, and its not because we have 2 weeks off. Teachers took part in the rising, helped free this country. The ASTI will come out of this stronger than ever once the weak willed have scurried off for their 30 pieces from their FG masters. Pay rises come and pay cuts go BUT changes to terms and conditions are forever.

MrJones1973

judeboy101 wrote: »

There is a reason we have our convention at Easter, and its not because we have 2 weeks off. Teachers took part in the rising, helped free this country. The ASTI will come out of this stronger than ever once the weak willed have scurried off for their 30 pieces from their FG masters. Pay rises come and pay cuts go BUT changes to terms and conditions are forever.

I agree with you and will continue to vote no. At least we have a plan for September.

Chancer3001

Why are we still doing supervision!?

Won't there be supervisors paid to do that

picturehangup

BoatMad wrote: »

+1

Agree. Game over.

acequion

I must be a serial and serious glutton for punishment to continue checking out this thread.

Three days at convention fighting to salvage what we can for teachers while the usual brigade here bitch and moan, flinging all sorts of toys in all sorts of directions out of all sorts of prams, all the while enjoying their holidays unperturbed by such inconveniences as standing orders,motions, debates and very real divisions in a very real union. God but it really is so easy to be a keyboard warrior!!

1.Exodus to TUI. Hello!!! Have people totally forgotten that TUI, for all their bravado now, are full signatories to the LRA,and have fully accepted the new JC. And have people totally forgotten how punitive the former is to teachers and how regressive the latter is to the education system? Because maybe those of you touting the fantastic solution of deserting ASTI to join TUI might just need to be reminded of that.

2. The ASTI. While you bitch and rant and direct your ire at people like Ed Byrne or some vague entity called the ASTI, be aware that today 145 people,ordinary members like you,voted to stand down our industrial action. Meaning that the rest of you would get no say whatsoever! You would return to school to immediate CP hours and immediate compliance with all aspects of the JC, regardless of the ballot just over two months ago. Obviously it's too much to ask that you might recognise that this ASTI you so demonise, epitomised not by Ed Byrne and his top table,who in no way influence the cut and thrust, but by ordinary delegates who took to the podium one after another to allay the panic and the wanting to throw in the towel, to uphold, for about the third time in as may weeks, the democratic result of the last ballot and to somehow managed to convince 149 people to hold tight. The tiniest majority.

3. Strike.Did that ratio register with you?? 149/145, a mere 4 votes to flinging you straight into LRA, 5 weeks from the end of the school year and some of you guys are bitching that we didn't work a Houdini and convince them to go on strike??? What will it take to convince you that you that the people who are screwing you over time and time again are your own collegues?? If you wanted a different result, why were you not there and up at that podium yourselves? Then you might see how hard it can be to reason with a bunch of teachers!

And finally S&S. There you're off again bitching. It's only one and not the other. Can you not see that this is protecting you from a lock out? It's far from perfect but it's a start! And yes I'd also prefer if it could start immediately but don't forget the 149 /145 factor!! We are damn lucky we made so much progress this past two days. And believe me,we made PROGRESS.

It's obviously impossible to convince you people that we are in a very difficult situation in very difficult times and that there is no easy PLAN. This is a very intricate game of chess that requires nerve, balls,focus and commitment.

Many of you people should never have voted no because you clearly lack any of the above!

BoatMad

judeboy101 wrote: »

There is a reason we have our convention at Easter, and its not because we have 2 weeks off. Teachers took part in the rising, helped free this country. The ASTI will come out of this stronger than ever once the weak willed have scurried off for their 30 pieces from their FG masters. Pay rises come and pay cuts go BUT changes to terms and conditions are forever.

reasoned debate , thats fine, a lord haw haw style propaganda piece, well now lets just ignore that and move along

Chancer3001

Acquieon, what's happening next??

Nothing til September...then don't substitute...but do supervise....

Doesnt that kill extra curricular? Is that on purpose?

acequion

I need to amend something in my earlier post. The 149/145 was on a motion to debate standing down industrial action,not standing down industrial action. However if that debate had been allowed,given the determination of a certain faction to get us into pay agreements,there is no doubt that a motion to suspend industrial action would ensue and would result in almost the same ratio if not a victory for this motion. The point is that it was extremely close and the divide in the union remains at 50/50.

BoatMad

acequion wrote: »

I need to amend something in my earlier post. The 149/145 was on a motion to debate standing down industrial action,not standing down industrial action. However if that debate had been allowed,given the determination of a certain faction to get us into pay agreements,there is no doubt that a motion to suspend industrial action would ensue and would result in almost the same ratio if not a victory for this motion. The point is that it was extremely close and the divide in the union remains at 50/50.

God help us that democracy might give us the " wrong " answer or change its mind .

acequion

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Acquieon, what's happening next??

Nothing til September...then don't substitute...but do supervise....

Doesnt that kill extra curricular? Is that on purpose?

Extra curricular wasn't mentioned at all but I see where you're coming from. The Batt O Keefe hours which every school has at their disposal were spoken about and could be used here.

TheDriver

The Batt hours are a very small portion of subbing hours available to a school but they are there

evolving_doors

BoatMad wrote: »

given most of them are in a union, i fail to see your logic.

They're not in the teacher unions though. Loads of cases of teachers vs. Dept for pay and contract issues. You hardly think when they sit down to argue it's a case of 'ah shur we're all in a union aren't we'.
Actually I'd be interested to know if senior civil servants stay in any union once they move to the top tier.

BoatMad wrote: »

The simple issue is this, the majority of teachers and teaching unions are inside an agreement and working that agreement

One union is not and persists in thinking it can unilaterally affect change .

this dispute has nothing to do with ministers or civil servants

Which is why I said they are largely unaffected by any union action (be it ASTI TUI INTO who ever)

The dispute is about education. And who does this impact on the most?
The public.
Nothing will change until they are woken up to the issues. And this won't happen with lunchtime protests and hanging banners out windows... and worrying about the current students exams. Doing S&S for free.
If there's no follow through with strike then theres nothing and change cannot be affected.

Chancer3001

There will be a hit to government pockets with having to hire supervisors.

There will be a hit to their policies when we're still not doing new jc or inservice for it

A hit to inspections when we can't have any department meetings to plan stuff

BoatMad

Gebgbegb wrote: »

They're not in the teacher unions though. Loads of cases of teachers vs. Dept for pay and contract issues. You hardly think when they sit down to argue it's a case of 'ah shur we're all in a union aren't we'.
Actually I'd be interested to know if senior civil servants stay in any union once they move to the top tier.

right then, Ted, its just all down to Grudges , I see.

The dispute is about education. And who does this impact on the most?

funny most of the rhetoric is about pay and conditions.

The public.

well only the school going sections:D

Nothing will change until they are woken up to the issues. And this won't happen with lunchtime protests and hanging banners out windows... and worrying about the current students exams. Doing S&S for free.
If there's no follow through with strike then theres nothing and change cannot be affected.

Hiding this dispute in the cloak of " educational righteousness " is in my view entirely duplicitous. There may be " differing opinions " of various educational aspects of this ,but thats not the core issue

Of course disrupting schools and exams , is not of course " an educational issue "

MrJones1973

Thanks aqueion for such a great account of events. For the record I did try to get down to convention but it proved impossible in the end

I think given the Dynamics of the situation the strike in September was the most we could salvage. I didn't realize vote was so close but I think it reflects the split in the Union.
If a ballot was called again on LR it would pass.
I still would believe in strike action in May but democracy is democracy.
I would like more focus on the JC campaign