Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

SligoBrewer

Can teachers apply for CIDs even though they know that they are not entitled to them?
Could be an interesting form of protest.

Mekekka

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Can teachers apply for CIDs even though they know that they are not entitled to them?
Could be an interesting form of protest.

The deadline is gone this year anyway but I actually did jokingly suggest this in school one day, imagine the workload it would cause if all those who would normally have been applying but can't now did apply. On a more serious note, You'd never get a principal to sign it though.

ccazza

Mekekka wrote: »

The deadline is gone this year anyway but I actually did jokingly suggest this in school one day, imagine the workload it would cause if all those who would normally have been applying but can't now did apply. On a more serious note, You'd never get a principal to sign it though.

Actually one of the notes in from ASTI head office during the week was about this. It said if you were due a CID to apply for it.
http://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/SS_re_Update_April.pdf

Mekekka

ccazza wrote: »

Actually one of the notes in from ASTI head office during the week was about this. It said if you were due a CID to apply for it.
http://www.asti.ie/uploads/media/SS_re_Update_April.pdf

No way!

evolving_doors

Mekekka wrote: »

No way!

Maybe they're looking for a test case of some sort! Esp. if one teacher gets a CID over a teacher who doesn't get one in the same school. That could nullify the 2yr vs' 4 yrs disparity.

Mekekka

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Maybe they're looking for a test case of some sort! Esp. if one teacher gets a CID over a teacher who doesn't get one in the same school. That could nullify the 2yr vs' 4 yrs disparity.

I'm totally going to apply, see what happens!

judeboy101

Mekekka wrote: »

I'm totally going to apply, see what happens!

Nothing like a bit of devilment:-)

evolving_doors

Mekekka wrote: »

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Maybe they're looking for a test case of some sort! Esp. if one teacher gets a CID over a teacher who doesn't get one in the same school. That could nullify the 2yr vs' 4 yrs disparity.

I'm totally going to apply, see what happens!

Have a discrete nose around the staffroom too (play cards close to chest). Only way it'll have a chance is if another person (preferably with the same subject as you) gets one and you don't. :pac:

acequion

Charming headlines in today's blueshirt mouthpiece! http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/public-servants-to-lose-up-to-100000-in-reform-of-goldplated-pension-system-35671800.html

MrJones1973

Typical game plan of Government-Offer something outrageous-ASTI/Unions reject-Offer something thats **** but not outrageous-Most unions accept- ASTI stays out-Ballot the **** out of ASTI (give publicity to failed union politicians) and asti Usually caves in. This time Union holding the line.


Im wondering how long I can go not forgiving FF!

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Typical game plan of Government-Offer something outrageous-ASTI/Unions reject-Offer something thats **** but not outrageous-Most unions accept- ASTI stays out-Ballot the **** out of ASTI (give publicity to failed union politicians) and asti Usually caves in. This time Union holding the line.


Im wondering how long I can go not forgiving FF!

Well we have to get rid of those blueshirts before they run state workers into the ground. They were always anti PS but they've lost the run of themselves lately in these generally anti state times. FF would be better for us,but by how much you'd wonder.

Mekekka

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Have a discrete nose around the staffroom too (play cards close to chest). Only way it'll have a chance is if another person (preferably with the same subject as you) gets one and you don't. :pac:

I'm in a relatively small voluntary secondary school and unfortunately don't think there are any TUI / non union people who could apply for it this year, just myself and a couple of other asti members. I didn't expect it this year anyway once the Dept announced they were recinding the ward report conditions so there's no harm chancing applying anyway.

MrJones1973

I think at this stage ASTI should go on offensive and present a position Paper. Outlining what it would accept. Would dominate headlines and no doubt would come across as reasonable. I would propose this
1) Reformed Croke Park hours along lines that so long as work accounted for-no need to have detention for teachers
2) Principle that we dont assess our own pupils accepted
3) All Future Pay deals have a premium of 33% extra for New scales ie Old timers get 2% They get 3%
4) A reasonable deal on middle Mgt

I want pay equality. I gave up 5k for it but without other unions behind us-we are pissing in the wind on that, as it effects entire Public sector. ASTI can piss them off on JC but on Pay equality we need to give a bottom line as 18000 members out of 300,000 is not going to change policy on pay. Simply saying Pay equality wont bring it about-especially without a serious strike.
I plan to forward the above in some form TO HQ. I would like recommendations. Realistic ones.

deiseindublin

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

...I would propose this
1) Reformed Croke Park hours along lines that so long as work accounted for-no need to have detention for teachers

Was there not talk about a study into CP hours and the outcome being released in May?

I'm TUI and still doing these stupid feckin' hours. REALLY resent them that they're so regimental. I did 33+ hours every year before there were introduced but there was nobody there with a stop watch counting them.

SligoBrewer

Over 1,100 signatures handed into the ASTI today, the Irish Times reporting now.

I remember you telling me not to get invested Mr. White. Well I'm the idiot for not following that through; even after the union voted to help us.

joebloggs32

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think at this stage ASTI should go on offensive and present a position Paper. Outlining what it would accept. Would dominate headlines and no doubt would come across as reasonable. I would propose this
1) Reformed Croke Park hours along lines that so long as work accounted for-no need to have detention for teachers
2) Principle that we dont assess our own pupils accepted
3) All Future Pay deals have a premium of 33% extra for New scales ie Old timers get 2% They get 3%
4) A reasonable deal on middle Mgt

I want pay equality. I gave up 5k for it but without other unions behind us-we are pissing in the wind on that, as it effects entire Public sector. ASTI can piss them off on JC but on Pay equality we need to give a bottom line as 18000 members out of 300,000 is not going to change policy on pay. Simply saying Pay equality wont bring it about-especially without a serious strike.
I plan to forward the above in some form TO HQ. I would like recommendations. Realistic ones.

You are correct on the new entrant pay. It was clearly outlined to us in the TUI this time last year that it was a public sector wide issue and the department of education wouldn't and couldn't yield on it on their own due to the knock on effect in the whole of the public service.

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think at this stage ASTI should go on offensive and present a position Paper. Outlining what it would accept. Would dominate headlines and no doubt would come across as reasonable. I would propose this
1) Reformed Croke Park hours along lines that so long as work accounted for-no need to have detention for teachers
2) Principle that we dont assess our own pupils accepted
3) All Future Pay deals have a premium of 33% extra for New scales ie Old timers get 2% They get 3%
4) A reasonable deal on middle Mgt

I want pay equality. I gave up 5k for it but without other unions behind us-we are pissing in the wind on that, as it effects entire Public sector. ASTI can piss them off on JC but on Pay equality we need to give a bottom line as 18000 members out of 300,000 is not going to change policy on pay. Simply saying Pay equality wont bring it about-especially without a serious strike.
I plan to forward the above in some form TO HQ. I would like recommendations. Realistic ones.

Agreed on all except CP hours. Apart from after school P/T meetings and staff meetings,let them piss off with anything beyond that!

acequion

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Over 1,100 signatures handed into the ASTI today, the Irish Times reporting now.

I remember you telling me not to get invested Mr. White. Well I'm the idiot for not following that through; even after the union voted to help us.

Not sure exactly what you mean SligoBrewer, but no way are we going to be defeated by a right wing faction within the union who just cannot nor will not accept a democratic decision. The idea of standing down industrial action at this juncture when the LRA is winding down,the economy is good,other unions are sick of being straitjacketed and threatening action and the blueshirts continue to treat us all like public enemy number one,is quite frankly,ludicrous.

They'll get their special convention,they'll inconvenience everybody just to go back over the same ground,they'll deepen divisions in the union but they won't get their way.

SligoBrewer

acequion wrote: »

Not sure exactly what you mean SligoBrewer, but no way are we going to be defeated by a right wing faction within the union who just cannot nor will not accept a democratic decision. The idea of standing down industrial action at this juncture when the LRA is winding down,the economy is good,other unions are sick of being straitjacketed and threatening action and the blueshirts continue to treat us all like public enemy number one,is quite frankly,ludicrous.

They'll get their special convention,they'll inconvenience everybody just to go back over the same ground,they'll deepen divisions in the union but they won't get their way.

Hopefully. It's sickening to see people, my colleagues, go to such lengths to keep you labelled as a second class member of the profession.

Not only that, but they say they speak in my name. 1,100 people think they know my life, my CID-less, 8000 a year down, Junior Cycle teaching professional life better than me.

They haven't a clue.

MrJones1973

I was at a special convention once on changing structures of the ASTI. I cant recall how delegates were picked.

Villain

I remember people telling me people couldn't join another union during a dispute and members weren't leaving ASTI over their nonsense, well today's Independent shows

judeboy101

Villain wrote: »

I remember people telling me people couldn't join another union during a dispute and members weren't leaving ASTI over their nonsense, well today's Independent shows

The 'future' of the union, methinks someone wants to make a name for themselves.

Icsics

When is this special convention likely to be?

MrJones1973

A special convention wont necessarily change anything. The 1000 or so members only represent less that 6% of members (roughly)They wont elect special delegates-well not them all. The delegates come from branches and you can bet that many of the signatories are not actively involved .

joebloggs32

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

A special convention wont necessarily change anything. The 1000 or so members only represent less that 6% of members (roughly)They wont elect special delegates-well not them all. The delegates come from branches and you can bet that many of the signatories are not actively involved .

I would be surprised if those who signed it don't turn up at their branch when selecting delegates.

MrJones1973

I think a special convention would have less than 400 people at it. I take it all members on a petition would have to be verified and then the six week clock starts ?

sitstill

I teach in a dual union school where ASTI was the bigger union. Over the course of the past year or so, this has changed. TUI now have 30+ members while ASTI has 5. We have no real voice in the school now and are losing our right to vote a nominee to the BOM. The 5 of us met yesterday to discuss packing it in and moving to TUI. It makes financial sense, but in the face of our almost extinction, also gives us back our voice. I don't want to leave the ASTI but I don't feel they are representing me anyway. Months have passed and they have achieved nothing. They say they are not losing members, but I find that hard to believe.

judeboy101

sitstill wrote: »

I teach in a dual union school where ASTI was the bigger union. Over the course of the past year or so, this has changed. TUI now have 30+ members while ASTI has 5. We have no real voice in the school now and are losing our right to vote a nominee to the BOM. The 5 of us met yesterday to discuss packing it in and moving to TUI. It makes financial sense, but in the face of our almost extinction, also gives us back our voice. I don't want to leave the ASTI but I don't feel they are representing me anyway. Months have passed and they have achieved nothing. They say they are not losing members, but I find that hard to believe.

If you are full time and permanent why change? While all the other fools do 33hrs a year extra and slave away in slar meetings you have your freedom. A single thorn can hurt more than a full bush of them.as for bom any teacher has the right to be nominated its up to tui to enforce a voting strategy.

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think a special convention would have less than 400 people at it. I take it all members on a petition would have to be verified and then the six week clock starts ?

Will we be told where and when so I can go and protest outside?

PureClareGold

judeboy101 wrote: »

If you are full time and permanent why change? While all the other fools do 33hrs a year extra and slave away in slar meetings you have your freedom. A single thorn can hurt more than a full bush of them.as for bom any teacher has the right to be nominated its up to tui to enforce a voting strategy.

"slave away in slar meetings" What utter nonsense. Spending time working with colleagues discussing what constitutes good work, learning from each other on how we teach different things in our classrooms. The slar has been the most positive experience I've had in my school in all my years of teaching. We are paid to work and we do need to earn it.