Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

joebloggs32

acequion wrote: »

Where that came from was The ASTI's announcement of strike days to begin in October. Strategic timing to take the wind out of our sails and also the fact that there was a union outside the LRA who were prepared to confront the issue head on. You are deluded if you think otherwise and I'm laughing at being compared to Trump.

I am sure you are right about the timing of the announcement, however the strike day called in February by the TUI was designed to put pressure on the government on the eve of the general election. They caved in and offered talks. When we voted last May we were told talks would take place over the summer, which they did along with the INTO. I knew by the end of August something was coming, but obviously the minister was playing politics, waiting for the opportune time to announce it.
You may feel that the gains offered were down to the Asti stance, and you are entitled to that opinion, but cast your mind back to when the ward report was issued. No union was in dispute when that was granted. It is possible sometimes to convince the department what is the right thing to do. That is the current TUI strategy. Have them understand how important pay equality is and get them to lobby DPER on it,

acequion

joebloggs32 wrote: »

I am sure you are right about the timing of the announcement, however the strike day called in February by the TUI was designed to put pressure on the government on the eve of the general election. They caved in and offered talks. When we voted last May we were told talks would take place over the summer, which they did along with the INTO. I knew by the end of August something was coming, but obviously the minister was playing politics, waiting for the opportune time to announce it.
You may feel that the gains offered were down to the Asti stance, and you are entitled to that opinion, but cast your mind back to when the ward report was issued. No union was in dispute when that was granted. It is possible sometimes to convince the department what is the right thing to do. That is the current TUI strategy. Have them understand how important pay equality is and get them to lobby DPER on it,

You have a more benign view of the department /Govt than I do.They don't want to understand the importance of pay equality because they are committed to driving down costs. And I take your point about the Ward report but removing it from ASTI members was pure vindictiveness, so I wouldn't have much faith in their interest in good causes. TUI's Eddie Conlon is pessimistic about the pay talks and I'd be inclined to agree. I can't see them yielding much more on pay equality but we have to stick to our guns and for once have the two unions united in this cause.Together we're much stronger.

doc_17

acequion wrote: »

Very much doubt it. You assume people are very noble,they're not. Don't forget that pay equality only affects the post 2011 cohort. The greater majority of serving teachers are pre 2011. They will put their own interests first. It's human nature.

The last deal was rejected by 52-48 with no pay equality. If it were offered in addition to that I think the middle ground would shift.

But fair play to the ASTI anyway. Their principles are correct even if I don't think their strategy is correct.

MrJones1973

doc_17 wrote: »

The last deal was rejected by 52-48 with no pay equality. If it were offered in addition to that I think the middle ground would shift.

But fair play to the ASTI anyway. Their principles are correct even if I don't think their strategy is correct.

Pay equality will not be offered just extra money for new entrants but not pay equality per se

SligoBrewer

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Pay equality will not be offered just extra money for new entrants but not pay equality per se

And I won't accept it.

dory

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Pay equality will not be offered just extra money for new entrants but not pay equality per se

I think I would after all this. I'd love to be on equal pay to everyone else but at this stage I'd love to: throw JC under bus, get some kind of pay restoration, move on.

Every single day I'm hearing of more people heading over to TUI. Can understand why.

Icsics

TUI members in voluntary secondaries are getting the 40 minutes off timetable for planning next yr, negotiated by JMB with DES

MrJones1973

I cant see next pay deal being rejected. But I have been wrong before!

km79

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/update-on-current-issues/

jayo76

What was the pattern of events at Standing Committee today? Were Standing Committee in favour of standing down action?

2011abc

Gas that the letters from Dept are signed by Assistant General Secretary who must be playing 'Good Cop'.Was some stunt during last long spell without a government running the country when the Dept head honcho was doing his best Rambo impression launching ad hoc attacks on ASTI .Some ego !

km79

jayo76 wrote: »

What was the pattern of events at Standing Committee today? Were Standing Committee in favour of standing down action?

Anyone ?

acequion

dory wrote: »

I think I would after all this. I'd love to be on equal pay to everyone else but at this stage I'd love to: throw JC under bus, get some kind of pay restoration, move on.

Every single day I'm hearing of more people heading over to TUI. Can understand why.

So you're ready to throw in the towel? So are plenty of others, it seems. And while I sympathise,do remember that your idea of moving on is basically moving on to even worse working conditions and an even greater workload,and in your case, for very poor pay.

The Govt are breaking people's resolve as they have done time and time again. And people will give in as they have done time and time again.Until they can't stick it anymore and vote to strike in huge numbers as they have done time and time again. It's all so predictable it's almost getting boring.

We will never regain any lost ground while we keep caving in.

acequion

2011abc wrote: »

Gas that the letters from Dept are signed by Assistant General Secretary who must be playing 'Good Cop'.Was some stunt during last long spell without a government running the country when the Dept head honcho was doing his best Rambo impression launching ad hoc attacks on ASTI .Some ego !

The trouble is that it will be harder now to persuade people to hold the line and they know that full well and are smelling blood. Now while I could respect a desire to stand down action if it were the result of a ballot,that it might result from a coup staged by a bunch of people who are basically pandering to their own agenda would make my blood boil.

jayo76

acequion wrote: »

The trouble is that it will be harder now to persuade people to hold the line and they know that full well and are smelling blood. Now while I could respect a desire to stand down action if it were the result of a ballot,that it might result from a coup staged by a bunch of people who are basically pandering to their own agenda would make my blood boil.

Acequion what is your general feeling now after today's Standing Committee meeting? Do you think there has been a lessening of resolve, are we looking at a stand down?

JD3112

Is there a deadline on receiving CIDs?

If I am reading the letter correctly, if the action is suspended, members could apply for CIDs and get their contracts?

I assume, regardless of what is said about the 'benefits' being rescinded they couldn't take that CID back off them as it is a contract of indefinite duration after all??

If that is the case, and the young teachers get their CIDs quickly, I would be on for suspending action and then reinstating it in September if the new pay deal isn't good enough

evolving_doors

JD3112 wrote: »

Is there a deadline on receiving CIDs?

If I am reading the letter correctly, if the action is suspended, members could apply for CIDs and get their contracts?

I assume, regardless of what is said about the 'benefits' being rescinded they couldn't take that CID back off them as it is a contract of indefinite duration after all??

If that is the case, and the young teachers get their CIDs quickly, I would be on for suspending action and then reinstating it in September if the new pay deal isn't good enough

My understanding was that 2 yr CID's were contingent on ASTI being in LR.

JD3112

Gebgbegb wrote: »

My understanding was that 2 yr CID's were contingent on ASTI being in LR.

But it says in the letter "ASTi members would again be covered by the terms of the Ward Circular, including reduced qualifying period for a CID and the removal of the career break and job sharing categories of objective grounds"

It does seem strange that the Dept. would be giving us the 'benefits' without being in the LRA as long as we suspend ind. action.

But maybe they think that once we suspend it, we have lost and there'll be no appetite for reinstatement. But we'll be voting on a different agreement by then anyway so quite strange.

Also, what margin does the motion at special convention need to pass by to be carried??

acequion

jayo76 wrote: »

Acequion what is your general feeling now after today's Standing Committee meeting? Do you think there has been a lessening of resolve, are we looking at a stand down?

Well I'm not on SC,jayo76 and I haven't been talking to anyone on it so as yet I don't know what the general feeling is on SC.

There's no doubt that right now this letter swings the momentum in favour of standing down and if the special convention were tomorrow that would be the most likely outcome. However the special convention is still two weeks away and who knows how things will look then. The pay talks will be well advanced or over by then and whatever emerges from that should have a big bearing on the special convention.

Also,delegates will have been chosen in all branches by now and I'd imagine the people going will be either strongly for or strongly against standing down. There won't be a large middle ground easily persuaded on the day,as there would be at annual convention where a lot of people are just there for the craic /piss up/nice holiday in Killarney as was the case this year.

It doesn't at all surprise me that the Govt are now trying to welcome us back with open arms. They always wanted us in the LRA and they always badly needed us onboard with the new JC. All the more reason to resist the carrot but it really could go either way.

MrJones1973

As stated before the fact that convention will be public vote will be a factor

MrJones1973

Can I clarify something-if you are chosen as a delegate are you mandated to vote a certain way? I know if a branch nominates a VP candidate you are-is this the same protocol in this case?

dory

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Can I clarify something-if you are chosen as a delegate are you mandated to vote a certain way? I know if a branch nominates a VP candidate you are-is this the same protocol in this case?

I would say not necessarily as we had a vote whether or not to mandate people in my branch. So we must have had the option not to mandate them.

km79

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/asti-teachers-to-get-perks-if-industrial-action-is-halted-35765146.html?utm_content=buffer2d78a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

acequion

km79 wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/asti-teachers-to-get-perks-if-industrial-action-is-halted-35765146.html?utm_content=buffer2d78a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Thank god for the "hardliners".

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/asti-teachers-to-get-perks-if-industrial-action-is-halted-35765146.html?utm_content=buffer2d78a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Perks?? That's like saying you get a cup of tea with your chemo.

2011abc

So now the Indo decides who are moderates and hardliners ?!Gas !

SligoBrewer

Well, it was the Irish Times and their "ASTI sources" who did so for the last 12 months or so.

MrJones1973

Im starting to wonder what the point of this campaign is? Mixed messages from new recruits. We will be balloted again in September and you could bet your house on this-that will pass (New deal) so long as it doesnt ask for too much. Yes, I was wrong earlier part of year but not by much.

People at convention didnt vote for strike action in May. There is no momentum for a long strike and as far as im concerned that was only thing that would bring a pay equality time table.

ethical

I reckon we are "broken" at this stage.Remember Paschal Donohue will be running two depts in Leos new Ireland,according to the media,that of Finance and his old portfolio of social Protection (some protection,I say!). Same man said pre the new talks that there will be no equalisation of pay.The Government are hell bent on keeping the two tier system,the longer they continue with this the less it will become.Remember the recent survey being talked about here re "not many teachers being over 45 yrs of age".I think this group can be pensioned off early,remember also they are on the higher salary scale,get rid of as many of them as possible and you have just the new lower scale teachers left! As I said previously its a joke on behalf of the various Teacher Unions "promoting -no redundancies",I know many teachers who would gladly take a redundancy package now ,if offered,especially the over 50 year olds.And with the onset of the new Junior Cert. there will be fewer teachers required as some staple subjects of yester year will now become optional.The numberof students taking History ,geography and( expect Irish ) will dwindle and hence less teachers will be required.The easiest way of getting rid of over quota staff will be to pension them off!

judeboy101

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Im starting to wonder what the point of this campaign is? Mixed messages from new recruits. We will be balloted again in September and you could bet your house on this-that will pass (New deal) so long as it doesnt ask for too much. Yes, I was wrong earlier part of year but not by much.

People at convention didnt vote for strike action in May. There is no momentum for a long strike and as far as im concerned that was only thing that would bring a pay equality time table.

Soundings from the talks are that two tier is here to stay. They'll hit older staff harder on pension and use savings to help younger staff, all smoke and mirrors stuff. Our only hope is one of the critical big unions jumps ship.