Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

evolving_doors

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

But where do you see Asti going?

They're gong to go all out with the nuclear option.... and hang a second banner out the window. :pac: Only kidding.

Obviously they must proceed with 'the plan'. Withdraw from S&S in September. Continue not doing CP. Not engage with JC.
Actually what's the story with this, are schools making preparations! I suppose not as it would be seen as giving in to terrorists etc.

ethical

All Teacher Unions leaders must meet immediately and galvanise and tell Paschal (who had his own election funded with the Queens money!) where to go. Did ye see his point on the "extra hours" giving so much to the economy and he singled out teaching for this,its easy to see he never sat in a fcukin Croke Park meeting! And the other thing ,farcical as it may sound ,is that we will possibly now have to pay to give up Croke Park hours!!!....if we see such hours interfering with family time.There is so much waffle coming from Gov.at moment.We need an election now and perhaps Paschal will get his come uppance then.

judeboy101

ethical wrote: »

All Teacher Unions leaders must meet immediately and galvanise and tell Paschal (who had his own election funded with the Queens money!) where to go. Did ye see his point on the "extra hours" giving so much to the economy and he singled out teaching for this,its easy to see he never sat in a fcukin Croke Park meeting! And the other thing ,farcical as it may sound ,is that we will possibly now have to pay to give up Croke Park hours!!!....if we see such hours interfering with family time.There is so much waffle coming from Gov.at moment.We need an election now and perhaps Paschal will get his come uppance then.

Teachers always had to pay to get out of cp hrs. Only difference now I that this option is extended to all public servants subject to needs etc.

ethical

I understand that teachers always had to pay (and had to pay even more on childcare etc so as to sit in these useless gatherings),but I gather that similar to S & S opt out payments,this is what Paschal has in mind for the future.

SligoBrewer

INTO recommend rejection.

Here we go lads.

judeboy101

SligoBrewer wrote: »

INTO recommend rejection.

Here we go lads.

Ballot result by end of June.

man_no_plan

I would hope that the three unions would get themselves together and go all out until there is pay equalisation - even if this means forgoing the upcoming raises for our sector. I'm sure there is a balance there somewhere, if anyone has the figures, where in the education sector we could get, say, 2% for all staff in addition to pay equalisation.

It cant be wait three years as there will be a higher number of new entrants and the govt will plead inability to pay. If we say hold on there lads look after the new entrants first and then come back to us with whatever is left we will be doing the right thing in a reasonable way, very hard to face that down with waffle and double speak.

The TUI / INTO won't dispute the continuation of CP hours in the medium term and the TUI will continue with JC cooperation. Incidentally, they don't save a penny in the education sector. I think the key to a united front on this will be what happens with the multiple strands of the ASTI dispute.

I really don't think that a promise to look at this in 2020 will do much to placate anyone. This issue is a bigger one on the education sector as the moratorium didn't apply. In other areas it will only grow in the coming years but when the remaining unions cop themselves on the problem will be too great.

I personally cant see anything of much worth in this agreement. Pension levy becomes a permanent pay cut for anyone with a bit of service or a POR and it seems that it's only for the duraton of the agreement that existing pension arrangements are safeguarded.

Being pragmatic and possibly selfish, if nothing else, the time to look after new entrants is now. Very soon when the govt come with the knife to slash our pension rights they will think back to what happened in 2017 and throw us under the bus if we do the same to them now. And they'd be right.

man_no_plan

judeboy101 wrote: »

Ballot result by end of June.

TUI should just post the ballots and be done with it too. Were ASTI at these talks?

MrJones1973

I presume this won't be balloted for secondary teachers until September?? What's this about an opt out for croke park or is it cpd hours ?

Asti were at talks.
Many new teachers jumping ship or willing to take deal as for screwing us long term who knows ?
At some stage government will want a big over haul of pensions but remove they have public sector pensions too.

deiseindublin

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

There needs to be a coordinated response from all teaching unions.

This was always needed and why the whole thing has gone to pot.

Hopefully they'll start talking between themselves a bit more before this deal gets tweaked.

deiseindublin

I'd gladly pay to get our of Teacher Detention, aka CP hours. Divide any pay cut by 3 for take home, then divide by 12 to see if you'd even notice it in your pocket every month.

On that note, when exactly is the CP hours review due? I thought it was due before summer hols but heard nothing about it in a long time, if it has even started.

SligoBrewer

deiseindublin wrote: »

This was always needed and why the whole thing has gone to pot.

Hopefully they'll start talking between themselves a bit more before this deal gets tweaked.

So long as one union was gaining financially from another union taking a stand, I don't think that was going to happen.

deiseindublin

Well, at least they're all agreeing with rejecting this new deal SligoBrewer, the nearest we've all been to the same page in a long time. I'm hoping that some good will come of it.

SligoBrewer

deiseindublin wrote: »

Well, at least they're all agreeing with rejecting this new deal SligoBrewer, the nearest we've all been to the same page in a long time. I'm hoping that some good will come of it.

Same.

Sir123

Let's hope it's a final NO in tomorrow's ASTI special convention. Be a bit awkward if LRA1 was accepted at this stage. Great to see TUI and INTO finally understanding the government we work for. Vote no everyone.

feardeas

If the INTO reject it not only is it in bother with the Education sector it is in bother full stop. They, IMPACT and SIPTU are the ones that swing it at ICTU level.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this being rejected by the INMO, GRA and perhaps some others as well. They are the areas where there was recruitment. The other unions have had very little and anyway the civil service unions are relatively small aside from the CPSU.

I think it may very well be rejected by the INTO and then the two second level unions will follow suit. It would be madness to ballot on it before the return in the Autumn, the deal may have died by then or perhaps have been amended.

One thing I am fairly sure of is that there is a finite amount of money so therefore pay equalisation or indeed a roadmap towards it will mean those of us from pre 2011 taking a hit. It will be up to everyone to make the call on that. Given that pensions are career averages post 2013 I would imagine that all future pay deals into the future will have to differentiate around that date. Also the employer is right in saying that there is no real shortage except in some subject areas and any primary principal will tell you that they are inundated with applications. That is different to the nurses and is a fact that we have to accept, not sure how you get round it but there must be a way.

In an aside it might be clever tactics for the ASTI to suspend the action, allow the CIDs to be awarded, allow people to be awarded increments and get the S and S and 1,000. Then see what happens in the Autumn. I'm not a member anymore so that is just me musing really.

The government will not want primary schools closed, it would cause mayhem and parents, I think, have a greater bond with the primary teacher so will be more minded to support them in the IR situation than second level teachers.

I think there will be some kind of side deal, it may not go the whole way but coupled with what was got last year it may close the gap further and then go for a road map but there will need to be a realisation that some of us will have to forego increases or at least some of them and also perhaps that into the future teachers would not receive the same level of award, akin to the proposal on extra hours.

SligoBrewer

These salaries for teachers were decided back in 2002, 15 years ago. The state can afford them.

judeboy101

Best of luck to all attending the special convention. Remember 'No means No' .

littlebsci

Good luck to all going to the special convention today. Keep us up to date if you can.

I truly hope the side against the motion manage to get enough people out today to shut this ridiculous waste of union resources and people's time down. I know my own branch is stacked with people in favour of the motion....lots of hand wringing and "somebody think of the nqts" when in reality they're thinking of their own pockets, the disingenuity of it all was making me sick at the last branch meeting.

acequion

Yes indeed,best of luck and fair play to those taking the time and trouble to go. I'm raging to be missing it but am out of the country and couldn't change plans at such short notice. I'm nervous though at the calibre of delegates. My own branch is sending a really good bunch who are firmly in the No camp as will be a lot of  the branches from Dublin and the west. But there are disturbing accounts of lots of hand picked yes people and there are 430 there apparently. Fingers very tightly crossed as we anxiously await news.

deiseindublin

feardeas wrote: »

I'm not a member anymore so that is just me musing really.

Did you join TUI or just leave ASTI?

Icsics

Any report from convention?

judeboy101

Icsics wrote: »

Any report from convention?

How long does it take to say no?

feardeas

deiseindublin wrote:

Did you join TUI or just leave ASTI?

As I said in my post. Other than that I'm not entering some kind of star chamber. Nobody's business what anyone does.

TheDriver

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0610/881631-teachers/

Bean Scoile

So it only takes 800 people to overturn a majority vote.

Democracy is alive and well.

judeboy101

Can't wait to see the tui out in the rain in Nov while I get paid to have a day off

Bean Scoile

Does this leave us back in Croke park hours? That we didn't get to negotiate with management because we were instructed not to? I do hope the tui teachers in my school voted well.

Sir123

Outrageous to say the least. Disheartening to NQTs and LPTs who have had to endure an additional year (without income) and at an extra cost to pay for their teaching qualification (PME) of two years. Disgusting!

Yes, I presume croke park hours and full JC cooperation is now expected of every teacher .

Beaulieu

Whats the story with people due to get CID's this year but didnt?