Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***

Benicetomonty

Officially a lauging stock. 2 full democratic votes overturned by careerists. Unprecedented.

judeboy101

So we immidately get that 1000 quid plus 1st half of s&s plus all our increments? And I still get to vote no to lra2 in Sept?

acequion

Bean Scoile wrote: »

So it only takes 800 people to overturn a majority vote.

Democracy is alive and well.

Yes and only 400 to finish the business as was done today. Am gutted. But this could backfire. There will be a lot of ASTI members very unhappy to have everything changed by a small but clearly well organised faction. So it may well urge people to vote No in September. The fact too that members will see an extra few coppers,on a par with TUI might inspire the moderates to join with TUI and INTO into going after pay parity.

Kneebreaker

Pathetic. Utterly ashamed of what has happened today. Hard to justify being in the union now if it is not even democratically run. We are a joke, and worse, cowards.

Sir123

judeboy101 wrote: »

So we immidately get that 1000 quid plus 1st half of s&s plus all our increments? And I still get to vote no to lra2 in Sept?

I will also be voting a resounding NO to LRA2. I am a bit skeptical however to the fact that it could be easily accepted.

evolving_doors

Bean Scoile wrote: »

So it only takes 800 people to overturn a majority vote.

Democracy is alive and well.

I suppose that's the rules... in fairness it's being going on for years when it comes to union elections where candidates bussed in colleagues from schools.
Alls fair in love and war.
So does that automatically put ASTI into LR? Or just a suspension of action.

TheDriver

When will normal pay resume? Sept or now? I assume no backpay as its not an acceptance?

Sir123

TheDriver wrote: »

When will normal pay resume? Sept or now? I assume no backpay as its not an acceptance?

No back pay but immediate restoration of LRA benefits, to my understanding anyway.
Yes I presume the ASTI is fully part of LRA now. Correct me if I am mistaken.

PureClareGold

I'm delighted. We were getting nowhere with current strategy which amounted to nothing. At least now we can get on with trying to improve things from inside the talks as opposed to being outside on our own doing nothing. JC is inane happening. Will we get inservice straight away in Sept?
The normal hard working teachers voice was heard today, not just the loud left wing anti everything brigade

Kneebreaker

PureClareGold wrote: »

I'm delighted. We were getting nowhere with current strategy which amounted to nothing. At least now we can get on with trying to improve things from inside the talks as opposed to being outside on our own doing nothing. JC is inane happening. Will we get inservice straight away in Sept?
The normal hard working teachers voice was heard today, not just the loud left wing anti everything brigade

Yeah, you're alright Jack. Two democratic votes on the issue. Hang democracy, hang the principles of union membership because solidarity with your peers is "left wing anti everything"

Sir123

PureClareGold wrote: »

I'm delighted. We were getting nowhere with current strategy which amounted to nothing. At least now we can get on with trying to improve things from inside the talks as opposed to being outside on our own doing nothing. JC is inane happening. Will we get inservice straight away in Sept?
The normal hard working teachers voice was heard today, not just the loud left wing anti everything brigade.







Well union members voted twice resulting in two NO votes. That itself was democracy. All members had a voice in both LRA ballots that resulted in a democratic No vote. Today was not democracy, but rather a high group of yes campaigners that attended convention. Looking back, today's principle was wrong because we gave in. For future agreements, we do not have a leg to stand on as a union as we will always roll over. Extremely disappointed ASTI member here. Maybe I should revoke my membership to show how angry I am.

Kneebreaker

I hope you're not including me in any way with the Pure Care Gold views Sir123?

I'm with you, strongly considering leaving now. What's the point?

PureClareGold

Kneebreaker wrote: »

Yeah, you're alright Jack. Two democratic votes on the issue. Hang democracy, hang the principles of union membership because solidarity with your peers is "left wing anti everything"

Is today not democratic? Everything done today is within the rules of the union. Ordinary teachers got annoyed at losing out on everything with NO strategy that was taking us anywhere. That's the reality. Victory for us who live in reality

Bean Scoile

PureClareGold wrote: »

Is today not democratic? Everything done today is within the rules of the union. Ordinary teachers got annoyed at losing out on everything with NO strategy that was taking us anywhere. That's the reality. Victory for us who live in reality

To me, democracy is a majority vote. What happened today may be within the rules of the organisation, but it is not democratic.

judeboy101

PureClareGold wrote: »

I'm delighted. We were getting nowhere with current strategy which amounted to nothing. At least now we can get on with trying to improve things from inside the talks as opposed to being outside on our own doing nothing. JC is inane happening. Will we get inservice straight away in Sept?
The normal hard working teachers voice was heard today, not just the loud left wing anti everything brigade

I think you are on the wrong thread, boss.you need the DUP/conservatives appreciation thread.

Sir123

Kneebreaker wrote: »

I hope you're not including me in any way with the Pure Care Gold views Sir123?

I'm with you, strongly considering leaving now. What's the point?

Apologies Kneebreaker. I double clicked your quote by accident. Thank you. Today was ridiculous and undemocratic.

Amber 123

Can someone clarify if the suspension of this industrial action is contingent upon us accepting the proposed Public Service Stability Agreement?

Citing the Irish Times here: The decision at the convention means that members of the ASTI will co-operate with the requirement to work 33 additional unpaid hours each year - the so-called Croke Park hours - and with Government junior-cycle reform plans, pending a ballot on the new draft public service agreement that was agreed last week.

And the ASTI website here: “That the ASTI pending the outcome of the upcoming public service pay negotiations suspend all industrial action relating to the Lansdowne Roade Agreement (LRA) and Junior Cert reform, provided that ASTI members are treated equally to other public servants who have signed up to the Lansdowne Road Agreement (LRA)”.

If we reject the public service pay agreement (via a ballot which I am assuming will take place at some point), do we revert to the industrial action?

Nellieelephant

It is all about the money, let's not be fooled, money talks. Disheartened member.

judeboy101

Can someone explain how you can vote to suspend IA pending the outcome of talks when the talks have finished?

littlebsci

PureClareGold wrote: »

The normal hard working teachers voice was heard today, not just the loud left wing anti everything brigade

I consider myself to be a "normal hard working teacher" and just because I believe that the two ballots that have previously been held on the issue should not have been overridden by a well organised but disgruntled group within the union who, let's face it, are doing this for financial gain (no matter what spin they try to put in it) that does not make me part of a "loud left wing anti everything brigade".

You are right that today was within the rules of the union and fair play to the individuals who went through the rule book and devised this play but it doesn't make it democratic in my opinion.

Gutted but hopeful that with the recommendation from the other two unions to reject the latest "deal" the ASTI will follow suit and then all three will work together for once. Delusional might be more appropriate I suppose though!!

Bean Scoile

judeboy101 wrote: »

Can someone explain how you can vote to suspend IA pending the outcome of take when the talks have finished?

I presume the outcome of the talks could be taken as our vote on the proposals.

Sir123

judeboy101 wrote: »

Can someone explain how you can vote to suspend IA pending the outcome of take when the talks have finished?

I presume ASTI will now stay bound by LRA1 until Sep 2018. If we, along with the two other teachers' unions reject LRA2 then a possible co-ordinated strike action could take place. I don't see it happening before next September though. We are in LRA1 for another year unfortunately.

deiseindublin

feardeas wrote: »

Nobody's business what anyone does.

It was you that said you left the union, the obvious Q is if you joined the other side. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem answering this Q if I was happy with my decision.

deiseindublin

Absolutely gutted with todays convention for true blue ASTI members. Really didn't think it'd happen.

SligoBrewer

Sick.

Nellieelephant

Beyond sick. Own goal at every level. Scored in the 95th minute.

judeboy101

Opt in/out deadline passed a few weeks ago, wonder will it be extended for asti members?

SligoBrewer

judeboy101 wrote: »

Opt in/out deadline passed a few weeks ago, wonder will it be extended for asti members?

Of course it will. It saves them money at the expense of young teachers. The plat du jour.

Nellieelephant

judeboy101 wrote: »

Opt in/out deadline passed a few weeks ago, wonder will it be extended for asti members?

Only those with 15 years service.. More inequality... I have no where near that. So unfair.

judeboy101

Nellieelephant wrote: »

Only those with 15 years service.. More inequality... I have no where near that. So unfair.

Under LRA2 the opt out will be back one assumes for all (subject to employers needs)