Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Where now for ASTI? ****ASTI Action- Part III - See 1st Post***
Options
Comments
-
No honey I'm throwing no toys out of my pram. I'm abroad on holidays, will future teachers be able to afford that? I own my own home. Will future teachers be able to do that? And I'm at most 8 years from retirement so I reckon I'll be gone before the June holidays are pulled. So for me personally,it's not a major deal. But it is one hell of a major deal for our NQTs, who you and your buddies have blithely sold out today. And actually I would do all out strike,I would do whatever it takes to restore the integrity of my profession and the collegiality which you people sell so cheaply. And the backlash against you all tonight means that a No in September is starting to look very real.
And somehow from the tone of your posts over the past months I sincerely doubt you'd ever play hardball or any way except your way!
You make many false assumptions about me honey. I would have no issue with an all out strike. I would support it, honey. What I don't agree with is doing nothing, NOTHING and hoping to achieve something. That doesn't sit with me,honey. Where were we going? The first sniff of having to suffer by being locked out and we jumped into talks and suspended our actions.
When we found ourselves there nothing changed. We were suffering by all of this, honey.
Sometimes it's OK to say you've made a mistake and change your ways. I'm big enough to admit that.
Junior cycle is in honey. It's happened. Union directives have been broken left right and centre in relation to it. Hard working teachers want to do what is best for the students in their care by receiving the inservice that's available
Enjoy the rest of your holidays. I'm here at home helping the education system by supervising the exams and will be correcting then after that. That's my commit to education honey You seem to see it as a way to get long holidays and look after your suntan, honey. It's all about June for you.0 -
Thank you jayo. I really appreciate your contribution which totally concurs with everything I've heard. I was unable to be there but I got a running commentary from the outset by branch members and that's exactly what they described. Many of the people from my branch were never at convention before either but they are fair minded and were totally horrified by the atmosphere and many felt too intimidated to get up to speak. They now think I'm crazy to be on CEC and I had a huge job to convince them that CEC is not like that. CEC is a respectful, even if at times a very conflictual forum. Today, with its bused in supporters,was a new low for the ASTI.Today was a sad day for the ASTI, I obviously don't like the result of the vote and the acceptance of the motion but that is something I will get over, what saddens me is the whole atmosphere and conduct of the convention today.
The people who proposed this motion and the very vocal supporters they had present today genuinely seem to believe only they know best and showed such a condescending attitude in belittling anybody who dared as they see it to disagree with them. People who sought ammendments or spoke against the motion were variously described and often to great applause as saboteurs, paranoid, obstructionists, tricksters, loony left, delusional. I didn't speak today and I was very much against this motion as my posts here make obvious but I genuinely don't see myself as falling into any of the above categories.I do accept that certain terms were then used by opponents of the motion also such as bonkers, cowardly but I do genuinely feel that this was the result of frustration with the tone of many of the speakers they were listening to. The labelling of proposers of one amendment as Obstructionsts and the totally unjustified and over the top attack on emeritus members were in my eyes particularly abhorrent. That people could actually react with a very positive reaction of applause and cheering to the speakers who made these addresses is I beleive a stain on our Union I have to say. Yet people then get up and speak about the need for unity going forward, baffling to me I must admit.
It was a particularly strange atmosphere in the hall today with many people around me blatantly showing no interest in listening whatsoever to the debate but with very preconceived notions of what they were going to do. Nothing wrong with this but at least show the courtesy to listen and consider. I heard two people directly behind me say they had never been to a branch meeting or convention before but when one speaker gave his name at the podium one said to the other "oh this is the guy we were warned about, the People before Profit" guy. These two people then went on to laugh and snigger their way through the various people who spoke against.
Sorry for the rant, I just genuinely do feel disillusioned with what went on today. I don't agree with people on the other side of the debate to me but I know many of them from many other different spheres of interest, I spoke to many of them today and we respectfully agree to disagree. To me that respect was all too often absent today, maybe on both sides but on one more than the other for me. The proposers and supporters of the motion see themselves as the moderates, the people to claim back the Union from dangerous extremists, if the behaviour of many today was anything to go by the dictionary definition of moderate must have changed.
The passing of the motion I can very easily deal with and members will get the chance to vote on LRA 2 in a few months but the claim that the Union has somehow been saved today please spare me.0 -
Thank you jayo. I really appreciate your contribution which totally concurs with everything I've heard. I was unable to be there but I got a running commentary from the outset by branch members and that's exactly what they described. Many of the people from my branch were never at convention before either but they are fair minded and were totally horrified by the atmosphere and many felt too intimidated to get up to speak. They now think I'm crazy to be on CEC and I had a huge job to convince them that CEC is not like that. CEC is a respectful, even if at times a very conflictual forum. Today, with its bused in supporters,was a new low for the ASTI.
I'd say you'd have fitted right in with the personal insults you have no problem throwing about on here. Sore losers springs to mind0 -
MacGyver007 wrote: »There was a significant holdup after HRA was accepted! Cast your mind back to late 2014, when there was a delay in increments that were due on December 1 of that year:
http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/salary-increment-delays/
http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/salary-increments-delay-update/
They were finally paid at the beginning of March 2015. What odds of a similar delay in payments owed this time around....?
This is exactly what I'm worried about, and more specifically worst case scenario that they will somehow tie it in to us balloting on the new agreement. Like say they will pay us monies owed on 30th September if a ballot would be happening before that and if the ballot doesn't go their way, they could pull the plug on their promises as they did before. Again though, I hope my cynicism is misplaced and the government do exactly as they promised without delay.0 -
PureClareGold wrote: »No honey I'm throwing no toys out of my pram. I'm abroad on holidays, will future teachers be able to afford that? I own my own home. Will future teachers be able to do that? And I'm at most 8 years from retirement so I reckon I'll be gone before the June holidays are pulled. So for me personally,it's not a major deal. But it is one hell of a major deal for our NQTs, who you and your buddies have blithely sold out today. And actually I would do all out strike,I would do whatever it takes to restore the integrity of my profession and the collegiality which you people sell so cheaply. And the backlash against you all tonight means that a No in September is starting to look very real.
And somehow from the tone of your posts over the past months I sincerely doubt you'd ever play hardball or any way except your way!
You make many false assumptions about me honey. I would have no issue with an all out strike. I would support it, honey. What I don't agree with is doing nothing, NOTHING and hoping to achieve something. That doesn't sit with me,honey. Where were we going? The first sniff of having to suffer by being locked out and we jumped into talks and suspended our actions.
When we found ourselves there nothing changed. We were suffering by all of this, honey.
Sometimes it's OK to say you've made a mistake and change your ways. I'm big enough to admit that.
Junior cycle is in honey. It's happened. Union directives have been broken left right and centre in relation to it. Hard working teachers want to do what is best for the students in their care by receiving the inservice that's available
Enjoy the rest of your holidays. I'm here at home helping the education system by supervising the exams and will be correcting then after that. That's my commit to education honey You seem to see it as a way to get long holidays and look after your suntan, honey. It's all about June for you.
I also correct the exams and actually am not interested in a suntan babe!! You sound exactly like what was there today. Enjoy it! Those of us who believe in standing up for your youngest collegues won't give up! So enjoy awaiting your few extra bob,which we all know is all you care about.PureClareGold wrote: »No honey I'm throwing no toys out of my pram. I'm abroad on holidays, will future teachers be able to afford that? I own my own home. Will future teachers be able to do that? And I'm at most 8 years from retirement so I reckon I'll be gone before the June holidays are pulled. So for me personally,it's not a major deal. But it is one hell of a major deal for our NQTs, who you and your buddies have blithely sold out today. And actually I would do all out strike,I would do whatever it takes to restore the integrity of my profession and the collegiality which you people sell so cheaply. And the backlash against you all tonight means that a No in September is starting to look very real.
And somehow from the tone of your posts over the past months I sincerely doubt you'd ever play hardball or any way except your way!
You make many false assumptions about me honey. I would have no issue with an all out strike. I would support it, honey. What I don't agree with is doing nothing, NOTHING and hoping to achieve something. That doesn't sit with me,honey. Where were we going? The first sniff of having to suffer by being locked out and we jumped into talks and suspended our actions.
When we found ourselves there nothing changed. We were suffering by all of this, honey.
Sometimes it's OK to say you've made a mistake and change your ways. I'm big enough to admit that.
Junior cycle is in honey. It's happened. Union directives have been broken left right and centre in relation to it. Hard working teachers want to do what is best for the students in their care by receiving the inservice that's available
Enjoy the rest of your holidays. I'm here at home helping the education system by supervising the exams and will be correcting then after that. That's my commit to education honey You seem to see it as a way to get long holidays and look after your suntan, honey. It's all about June for you.0 -
Advertisement
-
I also correct the exams and actually am not interested in a suntan babe!! You sound exactly like what was there today. Enjoy it! Those of us who believe in standing up for your youngest collegues won't give up! So enjoy awaiting your few extra bob,which we all know is all you care about.
Who is the we you are talking about? How is doing nothing standing up for our younger colleagues? If you really cared you'd have been there today instead of looking after yourself first.0 -
Ah here get lost again would you! Sore losers, my hat! Your crowd won today like you'd bus in a crowd of nuns to vote against abortion. It's an aberration and it's a joke. But I really can't be bothered arguing with people like you so why are you bothering with me, go out and enjoy your moment!PureClareGold wrote: »Thank you jayo. I really appreciate your contribution which totally concurs with everything I've heard. I was unable to be there but I got a running commentary from the outset by branch members and that's exactly what they described. Many of the people from my branch were never at convention before either but they are fair minded and were totally horrified by the atmosphere and many felt too intimidated to get up to speak. They now think I'm crazy to be on CEC and I had a huge job to convince them that CEC is not like that. CEC is a respectful, even if at times a very conflictual forum. Today, with its bused in supporters,was a new low for the ASTI.
I'd say you'd have fitted right in with the personal insults you have no problem throwing about on here. Sore losers springs to mind0 -
Pure Clare Gold- You are incorrect when you say we achieved nothing in opposing the JC. ASTI teachers of English held the line and we did not assess our own pupils for certification nor did we attend SLAR meetings and the SEC were forced to change the specifications to reflect this. That was success. My pupils were extremely well prepared for their state exam. Now it all seems to have been for nothing as we must now all march to the department tune of CBAs and SLAR meeting after school next year. What a farce!0
-
I think it is only natural that many would be upset today. Acequion has held a consistent view throughout and has been polite to me on here. You and others will feel as I did last February.
Personally I think the right tactic May be at hand. Bank the improvements, increments s and s the 1000 and cid. Also the new posts. Teachers get cpd in the junior cycle, it's not altogether a big bad wolf.
The INTO and TUI are both recommending rejection of new deal. I'm sure you will follow suit. That means there is until December to get some move from the paymaster which will probably involve the rest of us foregoing something.
The talk of the convention isn't nice and reminds me of how I was spoken to at branch meetings. The two I ever went to.0 -
Very,very disappointed in you Mr White. That you actually sat though the heckling today and still voted against the very people you claim to represent shows you as untrustworthy. Sorry but I've been following this thread for a long time. You were once on CEC,you left the union before the last vital ballot because you didn't think we were all radical enough!! Yet you actually voted with the bused in masses today!! People who never gave a shyt about trade unionism or its principles. Just because we aren't all going out on strike!! That's your only strategy is it? Sorry I don't buy it. You've left us all down very,very badly!Mrwhite1970 wrote: »After a week of soul searching I voted yes. In the end pay equality or any reversal of croke park hours or anything you object to - won't be reversed without a strike. Strikes have been proposed several times since November climbdown and been defeated.
Thus bar saving an hour a week we are costing members thousands a week and have lost 1200 members
Let's let TUI and INTO take a lead . All members can vote in September and thus we can see view of all members. These members have never indicated they want a strike. Nothing and I repeat nothing will turn this government or any other government bar a strike. A long strike only thing that would rattle lenister house. A long one .0 -
Advertisement
-
Today was embarrasing from the point of view that a motion that was supposed to be spoke on did not commence until 3:00!!!! due to varying amendments which the President had to let happen,as the Union is a democracy,he pointed out.Pity these so called amendments could not have been sorted out earlier.The debate ,if you want to call it that lasted only 1 hour 15 minutes.Unfortunately there are an awful lot of "delegates who hog the microphone the whole time,same as in Killarney.The rowdy atmosphere would not be tolerated in class,not in mine in any case!
We have a government who are very North Korea -like in how they treat people and I reckon the Union now know this.Years back ,when dirsputes were sorted ,back pay was paid for work done,anything to keep the same payscale equality etc for all teachers but now the Gov does not care about having 100s of different pay/salary scales.I recently spoke to an ETB salary admin worker who told me they have gone from having one set up on payroll to several different payrolls due to opt in/opt out,asti/tui,non union,and thats only the start of it! What with the new opt in/opt out of the LR2 this number of different payrolls will increase further.
Unfortunately teachers cannot afford to strike for anymore than a day or two at most,we saw that during the past year.We have such low pay and our expenses are going up all the time,child care,college fees,travel to work etc.Priviledged politicians like Golden Spoon Kenny or RICHard Bruton do not understand how Public Servants are scrimping and saving all the time in order to provide for their families, throw in a looney Principal and 100s of CP hours and breaking point is very near for many.(and then they,Dept. promote Wellbeing and Mindfulness!!!!!.........for who?)
I believe the Union had no choice but to call a halt to "inaction" that was only punishing its own members,US.
Remember we are only signing up for the next few months! All teacher Unions will be turning down LR2,no doubt we will be balloted in September.We will bring down the Government yet I believe!0 -
PureClareGold wrote: »I'd say you'd have fitted right in with the personal insults you have no problem throwing about on here. Sore losers springs to mind
The irony is strong with this one. Surely the special convention was nothing but the voice of a minority of "sore losers" from a democratic union vote?0 -
I think it is only natural that many would be upset today. Acequion has held a consistent view throughout and has been polite to me on here. You and others will feel as I did last February.
Personally I think the right tactic May be at hand. Bank the improvements, increments s and s the 1000 and cid. Also the new posts. Teachers get cpd in the junior cycle, it's not altogether a big bad wolf.
The INTO and TUI are both recommending rejection of new deal. I'm sure you will follow suit. That means there is until December to get some move from the paymaster which will probably involve the rest of us foregoing something.
The talk of the convention isn't nice and reminds me of how I was spoken to at branch meetings. The two I ever went to.
Feardeas I agree with a huge amount of what you say in this post I genuinely do, banking the increments, s and s ,1000, CID and going again in conjunction with other Unions in September i can stomach. Well stomach if I genuinely feel this is seen as a staging post on the road to pay equality, it is seen as such by many who spoke for the motion today but unfortunately I feel many of the supporters of the motion today have no interest in taking any further action. Indeed i feel many have no interest in opposing the pay and pension proposals put forward this week, it will be interesting to see how many of the people supporting this motion speak against the LRA 2 proposals when September comes around. It amazed me today to hear the number of speakers seemingly celebrating that by 2020 we will be back to 2008 levels of pay. 12 years to get back to the same point and with now the permanent retention of a pension levy which was introduced to deal with the seemingly long over financial emergency, cause for celebration??
Unfortunately I would disagree with you on banking Junior Cycle CPD as a positive, look I do accept that it may be inevitable we will have to cooperate with it but I just feel it is so flawed in terms of it's educational philosophy that I can't take JC CPD as a positive.
Saddened to hear that you were spoken to in an unacceptable manner at branch meetings,that shouldn't happen as it shouldn't have happened today. Wishing you and all posters here a happy and restful Summer.0 -
PureClareGold wrote: »You make many false assumptions about me honey. I would have no issue with an all out strike. I would support it, honey. What I don't agree with is doing nothing, NOTHING and hoping to achieve something. That doesn't sit with me,honey. Where were we going? The first sniff of having to suffer by being locked out and we jumped into talks and suspended our actions.
When we found ourselves there nothing changed. We were suffering by all of this, honey.
Sometimes it's OK to say you've made a mistake and change your ways. I'm big enough to admit that.
Junior cycle is in honey. It's happened. Union directives have been broken left right and centre in relation to it. Hard working teachers want to do what is best for the students in their care by receiving the inservice that's available
Enjoy the rest of your holidays. I'm here at home helping the education system by supervising the exams and will be correcting then after that. That's my commit to education honey You seem to see it as a way to get long holidays and look after your suntan, honey. It's all about June for you.
I've stayed well out of this thread, mainly because I'm not ASTI, but also because it had the potential to become a train wreck, but this is genuinely once of the worst, most condescending, disrespectful posts I've ever seen posted in T&L towards a fellow colleague.
PCG, you're not committed to the education system over the summer anymore than the teacher who goes on holidays in June. You are getting paid for supervision and for correction. You are not doing it for free or out of the goodness of your heart.0 -
All teacher Unions will be turning down LR2,no doubt we will be balloted in September.We will bring down the Government yet I believe!
I would like to believe this, but I don't honestly think it will happen. I'd even go so far as to say that LRA2 will be passed by all three teaching unions by a comfortable majority.
The cut and thrust of LRA2 (I read the document this evening) seems to be 6-7% pay rise over three years, consolidation of the pension levy into a pension payment, and a continuation of CP hours.
I think a lot of teachers on the ground will go 'I'm no worse off in terms of hours, and I will be better off financially' and that will be the bottom line for a lot of them. I would like to think that teachers will vote against LRA2 to force more talks to ensure pay parity for all teachers but I just don't believe it will happen, despite recommendations from INTO and TUI to reject the deal.
I know when I go into my staffroom in September (where a lot of people are generally apathetic to union votes, even though it affects their livelihoods), will look around and go 'the new pay scale doesn't affect me, wouldn't mind a pay rise', and tick the yes box. Altruism isn't as widespread as we would like to believe in my opinion.0 -
Very,very disappointed in you Mr White. That you actually sat though the heckling today and still voted against the very people you claim to represent shows you as untrustworthy. Sorry but I've been following this thread for a long time. You were once on CEC,you left the union before the last vital ballot because you didn't think we were all radical enough!! Yet you actually voted with the bused in masses today!! People who never gave a shyt about trade unionism or its principles. Just because we aren't all going out on strike!! That's your only strategy is it? Sorry I don't buy it. You've left us all down very,very badly!
Interesting. This thread(which I started ) does not represent all Asti members. As for bussed in masses you are old enough to know how democracy works. There were no bussed in masses from the branches im familiar with.
Without a strike by Asti or in combination with other unions we were going nowhere. Your friends on CEC or SC backed away from that several times. Several times
It's very rare to find an LPT who wanted to strike. So if they are not willing to fight their own corner why should I fight it for them!? Trade unionisn is about struggle. LPTs are not willing to struggle.
As for JC I am concerned but again it has to be asked what we can achieve on our own?
We will all be balloted in September.
You made some rather personal attacks. I went with an open mind. I was there . Where were you ??
As for shouting at convention. It's democracy. It's an emotive issue. Intimidation ? Hardly0 -
After the years we have had politically it's a brave man or woman who would predict how LR 2 will turn out. Based on past events I think most teacher unions might reject it first time then a tweak or two then acceptance. Until a strike is a real possibility this is the way of things0
-
its Sunday morning and the world is still turning
I wrote here before the last vote about how i was conflicted between general principals of equality and fairness, and the individual circumstances of members re redundancy and cids
And this morning after the convention I am even more conflicted......because we have lost something that we will never get back...the whole rationale of a union....which is to protect and serve the entire body of the membership.
There are many many people for whom today is a day when they can look forward to meeting with their principals during the week, and gathering a cid they thought was gone, along with the benefits to their personal situation that will come about...and for them I am delighted.
But I am old enough to have a lot less left to do than I have done in terms of my service....and thats the key word....service...to the children in our care...and to our colleagues in the profession.
So what will the future hold....already the INTO and TUI have recommended rejection....and we will have to see if the membership follows their lead....and if they do....well September will be an interesting month.
But maybe it was, for now, the right move to suspend, regroup, talk with all teachers, and work together for the future of our professsion.
But history will show...the ASTI...that moderate union of my younger days in teaching ...an inherently conservative profession....stood up and said that inequality is wrong....and for that I salute and say thank you to those...of whatever political persuasion they have....who ensured that we can at least still dream of a society that cares.....and not an economy that people exist to serve0 -
Thanks themusicman, and on that note.....I think it's time for a pause as tensions are running hot. Comments are getting personal.
Either way... toast can't be bread.
It's the dept's move next, and you can bet they'll enjoy watching the infighting while they muse on ways to split further.
So until clarity is forthcoming... thread closed.
Please don't start parallel threads on the same topic (questions about CID's are probably hard to answer for now but feel free ).
This topic is HOT LAVA
MOD0
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement