New build ultimate smart house

lolliedog

Hi all

Hopefully will be starting a new build in the new year. I would appreciate any advice on how to set up the ultimate smart home. I'm also interested in systems that are designed to handle these functions.

Many thanks

bk

I'm going to very briefly answer your question, but I'll add my detail when I have more time and I assume others will chime in too.

First of all just some over all general tips.

1) Put LOTS of cable in your walls.

That means lots of cat 6 ethernet cable drops to each room from some central point in your house, where you are also be able to connect your broadband services coming in from outside the house (phone line/coax cable/fibre).

Also ideally you will want lots of coax cable for TV and satellite going to each room to this central point and also plenty of drops from the roof to this room for aerial and satellite connections.

While more unusual, you might also want to think about running HDMI and 5.1 audio from this central room to your TV points.

Once your walls are sealed it becomes much more expensive to add cables. So better to over provision now up front. Ideally it would be best to have ducting in your walls with wire in it, so that you can easily pull new wires through in future. However that is relatively unusual in homes.

2) Lots of plug sockets

Similar to above, modern smart homes have LOTS of electrical devices. Most homes don't have enough plugs and people end up with lots of extension cords, which just look ugly. Again try and over provision up front.

Also those plugs with USB charging ports can be very handy for modern homes too. But make sure each USB port is rated for at least 1A and preferably 2A. Not every plug in the home has too have this, but think about where they might be handy for instance beside a bed, sofa, kitchen counter, etc.

If you have kids or planning too, then there are two brands who make really good plug sockets that have a special feature that makes it almost impossible for the kids to stick things in the plug. Important for safety. If you decide to go really fancy and get lightwaverf sockets, then they have a really nice feature that allows you to disable the power at the socket for safety.

3) Make sure to make it backwards compatible.

Even if you decide to put fancy home automation tech in place, for instacne fancy Philips Hue lights, make sure that you design it in such a way that if you decide to sell up and move out later and want to take your fancy HA tech with you, that you can easily switch to traditional cheap solutions.

For instance Philips Hue lights wouldn't actually require old fashioned light switches in a new build (actually maybe building regs would require it, you would have to ask an electrician). However I would still put in place standard light switches, so that you could easily replace your Hue lights with cheap LEDs if you decide to move out in future.

At the very least make sure the correct cables are in place and that you perhaps put a blank faceplace over where a light switch would normally go.

4) Make sure everything is easy to use, reliable and will continue to work even if the internet goes down.

I think this is very important in a multi family member home, where you might have non techy family or friends visiting.

Personally I won't buy any HA technology unless it will continue to work when your internet and wifi goes down, at least in a basic mode and I prefer things that have at least some simple to use physical control as a backup.

For instance this is why I highly recommend Philips Hue. Even if your internet and wifi go down, you can still turn on and off the lights as usual with a light switch (and/or the Philips switch), even if you can't then do the fancy features like change colours etc. At least you will always have a working system.

This surprisingly isn't true of all HA tech. Some systems fail miserably if the internet goes down and I don't think that is acceptable at all.

Also make sure things are easy to use in the normal scenario. For instance 90% of the time we simply turn on and off our Philips Hue lights using the easy and intuitive Hue switch. Only the other 10% of the time do we use the phone app or voice control to do fancy scenes or colour effects. But it would be very annoying to have to use the app the other 90% of the time too. Physcial controls are very important IMO.

TheTubes

bk wrote: »

Also ideally you will want lots of coax cable for TV and satellite going to each room to this central point and also plenty of drops from the roof to this room for aerial and satellite connections.

I'm curious about this point.
We are in the process of building and I'm meeting the electrician next week to talk about networking, etc.

For the coax i was planning on getting an Octo LNB and having him run 4 pairs of cables to 4 different rooms. Each room would then have the ability to run a sky or freeview box.
(I need to look up more about the saorview but i expected this would be another cable run from the tv aerial to the same 4 rooms).

How would running the coax to a central point work?

I'm planning on adding HUE later, putting in plugs in the kitchen where it will be used and when the time comes ill hardwire the existing switches on and put in the hue dimmer over blank faceplates.

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread...

brav

TheTubes wrote: »

I'm curious about this point.
We are in the process of building and I'm meeting the electrician next week to talk about networking, etc.

For the coax i was planning on getting an Octo LNB and having him run 4 pairs of cables to 4 different rooms. Each room would then have the ability to run a sky or freeview box.
(I need to look up more about the saorview but i expected this would be another cable run from the tv aerial to the same 4 rooms).

How would running the coax to a central point work?

I'm planning on adding HUE later, putting in plugs in the kitchen where it will be used and when the time comes ill hardwire the existing switches on and put in the hue dimmer over blank faceplates.

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread...

If you are thinking about multiroom sky or freeview etc then you are correct in that pairs direct from LNB is needed. To a central point would not work if you want to watch different channels etc.

However, in this day and age I would think ethernet would be priority over cable, most people now are going down route of streaming etc, from the web or central server(a la Plex etc) so think about putting one in next to the sat cable to the rooms.

If you can't then there is always Wi-fi but ethernet is always best

Stoner

Very basic response here as I've answered this before

1) neutral cables to be present at every light switch so that you have a switch wire, permanent live neutral and earth at the switch

2) 35mm back boxes for sockets and light switches not 25mm or 16mm, this will have room for smart sockets and switches , modules etc to fit in

3) data cables to all TV points
4) data cable to the internet incomer
5)data and power in a central location for your whole house WiFi
6)all data an TV points brought back to the same location, have power here from a dedicated circuit using a 20amp RCBO
7) all flood lights to be on the same circuit but from the attic do a radial link to each one so that you can turn them on individuality
8) If you are putting in phone cables use cat 6 bring it to your hub spot,
9) link the phone incomer to the hub
10) two TV cables to every TV, three if you want to record from that location don't terminate until you need them leave them in the back box
11) bring 5 TV cables from the dish and aerial to the hub

Save money, only terminate cables if you are sure you'll need them. Don't bring multi data cables to points , use a switch if you need a few
Don't spend money on crappy TV points use a blank plate the provider takes them off anyway

bk

TheTubes wrote: »

For the coax i was planning on getting an Octo LNB and having him run 4 pairs of cables to 4 different rooms. Each room would then have the ability to run a sky or freeview box.
(I need to look up more about the saorview but i expected this would be another cable run from the tv aerial to the same 4 rooms).

Instead I'd use a Quattro LNB instead.

Still drop the 8 cables from the dish to this central room and then run the 4 pairs from the central room to each TV.

You need put a multiswitch like the following in the central room:
http://www.freetv.ie/5-x-8-satellite-and-terrestrial-multiswitch/

While a little more expensive, such a setup gives you far more flexibility for future growth. In future if you want more rooms you can get a 5x16, 5x32, mutliswitch, etc. without needing to change the LNB.

Also you could connect Virgin TV service in there if you liked.

I also recommend having 7 or 8 cables drops from the dish/aerial to this central point. The reason being that the new Sky Q and Freesat don't really mix well. In future, you could end up with the follwoing if you wanted both Sky Q, Freesat and Saorview:

- 2 drops for Sky Q
- 4 drops for Freesat
- 1 drop for aerial.

TheTubes wrote: »

I'm planning on adding HUE later, putting in plugs in the kitchen where it will be used and when the time comes ill hardwire the existing switches on and put in the hue dimmer over blank faceplates.

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread...

Yup, a very good plan IMO.

Stoner wrote: »

Save money, only terminate cables if you are sure you'll need them. Don't bring multi data cables to points , use a switch if you need a few
Don't spend money on crappy TV points use a blank plate the provider takes them off anyway

I 100% agree with everything you say above, except with this part.

Cat 6 can be used for far more then just ethernet. It can also be used for phone lines, HDMI, 5.1 audio, powering security devices, etc. It is very flexible.

I'd put at least two drops in each room and 3 in the main "TV" room.

I have 2 cat5e drops in every room and frankly it isn't enough, I wish I had a third drop to do HDMI from my central "sever room" rather then having to run a separate HDMI cable.

TheTubes

Stoner wrote: »

Don't bring multi data cables to points , use a switch if you need a few

Can you elaborate on this please?

I was planning on running 4 cat6 to the living room/family room tv points, 2 in the kitchen and one to all the bedrooms. All running to a patch panel under the stairs, and connecting them to a network switch which connects to the modem.
Are you suggesting its better to run 1 data point to each tv instead of 4 and use switches at the tv points? Is it a cost saving or is there another reason why one would be better?

bk wrote: »

Instead I'd use a Quattro LNB instead.

Still drop the 8 cables from the dish to this central room and then run the 4 pairs from the central room to each TV.

You need put a multiswitch like the following in the central room:
http://www.freetv.ie/5-x-8-satellite-and-terrestrial-multiswitch/

While a little more expensive, such a setup gives you far more flexibility for future growth. In future if you want more rooms you can get a 5x16, 5x32, mutliswitch, etc. without needing to change the LNB.

Also you could connect Virgin TV service in there if you liked.

Thanks, I'll have to read up on this a bit more!

jester77

For satellite, I went with quattro-lnbs, dropped 8 cables to a multi-switch in the basement, and feed each room from there. Also have a patch panel and switch there as well which take all the network cable from around the house. You'll be surprised how many points you will need. I have 8 Ethernet points and 8 power sockets where my TV is, and all are used and I still needed a power extension cable.

Some other things to note, I didn't run any Ethernet cable outside, something I regret as it would be ready to install POE devices, camera, sensors, etc Also drop Ethernet cable from the ceiling where needed, you might want surveillance equipment or even just extra POE access points.

Run speaker cables to where you will want audio, modern receivers have multi-zones so you can for example send audio from the living room to the kitchen.

Cables for alarm systems from doors and windows, power sockets outside for lights, random equipment you might use over the years. Also think about the garden and sprinkler automation, and underground water pipes for feeding plants.

Stoner

TheTubes wrote:

Can you elaborate on this please?

You can buy an unmanaged switch for 20 euro with 5 ports on it. So you can hook up PlayStations Xbox, Amp, fire TV, TV etc.
So rather than bringing 4 points Tidy place bring one , it's a tidy options to. I've four in my house. The office , the TV cabinet x2 , they all hook into a 10 port Gbit switch in the attic. The internet is linked her too and cctv NAS cctv etc

The thing is that at home many of these devices are not using the network at the same time. You either on the Xbox or PlayStation or Fire TV or watching Netflix on the TV.

Fair point on the HDMI extenders

lolliedog

Can someone shed some light on KNX?

bk

lolliedog wrote: »

Can someone shed some light on KNX?

It is a network protocol for Home Automation systems. It is mostly used in large commercial buildings, but can also be used domestically. However equipment that uses it is horribly expensive IMO and it is looking a little outdated in terms of integration with modern home automation technology like Echo, Google Home, etc.

BTW I've never used it, just what I've heard about it.

some interesting info about it here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056088039?

Stoner

bk wrote:

BTW I've never used it, just what I've heard about it.

Is agree but i wouldn't say it's for home automation. It's more commercial imo it's very expensive for a house as you say.

It's very popular with commercial dimming system and knx have loads of partners making systems ABB , GE, Philips etc
We've installed a lot of it and it's the go to cover all control option written into specs here. However I've rarely seen systems linked with it or its potential realised. So you have a lighting control system, knx compliant operating pretty much the same as ones that don't have it.

For me it's going to be used even less in homes now unless they stop messing around and price for the domestic market. I'll never get it at home simple because it was priced so high when I looked at it years ago when I rewired.

You can get it for power and busbars too with knx control loops build into cable looms, energy meters and controls too.

It's very solid and a good attempt at standardising things

Stoner

bk wrote:

BTW I've never used it, just what I've heard about it.

Is agree but i wouldn't say it's for home automation. It's more commercial imo it's very expensive for a house as you say.

It's very popular with commercial dimming system and knx have loads of partners making systems ABB , GE, Philips etc
We've installed a lot of it and it's the go to cover all control option written into specs here. However I've rarely seen systems linked with it or its potential realised. So you have a lighting control system, knx compliant operating pretty much the same as ones that don't have it.

For me it's going to be used even less in homes now unless they stop messing around and price for the domestic market. I'll never get it at home simple because it was priced so high when I looked at it years ago when I rewired.

You can get it for power and busbars too with knx control loops build into cable looms, energy meters and controls too.

It's very solid and a good attempt at standardising things

lolliedog

So I would be better wiring the house to a high standard and purchasing third party add ons later.

RonanC

I'm in a similar situation as the OP - is it worth investing in something like Control4 for an integrated system to manage Sonos, Nest, lighting, TV, etc?

lolliedog

RonanC wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation as the OP - is it worth investing in something like Control4 for an integrated system to manage Sonos, Nest, lighting, TV, etc?

I would also be interested to hear opinions on the above.

Stoner

lolliedog wrote:

I would also be interested to hear opinions on the above.

I think TCP/IP uses control 4

eddiem74

I am slowly starting to retrofit in to my non-automated house Fibaro modules to start down the home automation path.

https://youtu.be/K35uFXoa5c0

Stoner

eddiem74 wrote:

I am slowly starting to retrofit in to my non-automated house Fibaro modules to start down the home automation path.

F**k the Fibaro , that's some gaff!!!

Stoner

That kit is fantastic and it's one of the reasons why I keep harping on about have neutrals at the light switches with deep back boxes

Look at the pickle and additional expenses one user is in a few posts back on the fibaro thread because he's missing one cable at a light switch

BoardsMember

Stoner wrote: »

That kit is fantastic and it's one of the reasons why I keep harping on about have neutrals at the light switches with deep back boxes

Look at the pickle and additional expenses one user is in a few posts back on the fibaro thread because he's missing one cable at a light switch

Sorry for the stupid question, but can you explain this please, to a total newbie! I see earlier you recommend "neutral cables to be present at every light switch so that you have a switch wire, permanent live neutral and earth at the switch". What would be the normal, and what is it that is extra with your recommendation, and how can it be useful?

eddiem74

Stoner wrote: »

That kit is fantastic and it's one of the reasons why I keep harping on about have neutrals at the light switches with deep back boxes

Look at the pickle and additional expenses one user is in a few posts back on the fibaro thread because he's missing one cable at a light switch

That's me in the pickle... :-)

The Fibaro Dimmer2 module works with or without a neutral which is handy for retrofitting where a neutral does not exist.

Retrofitting into an existing house will never be easy hence why various companies are providing wireless and retrofit options. Yes it might add some expense but everything will be achieved... I hope. :-)

Stoner

eddiem74 wrote:

The Fibaro Dimmer2 module works with or without a neutral which is handy for retrofitting where a neutral does not exist.

True i saw that in the post and noted the connection points from the cct diagram and commented on same. I've used x10 stitches that use the imbalance too and don't need a neutral but that user was still short a cable on his intermediate switching that one more cable to the box would address and reduces the need for two wireless switches and some systems do need a neutral.

This a generic thread.

The advice stands it's handy to have the neutral there. Many houses in the uk loop the permanent live at the ceiling rose, that's another option, either have 220v at the switch or the ceiling rose. Typically we have it at neither .

lolliedog

Stoner wrote: »

True i saw that in the post and noted the connection points from the cct diagram and commented on same. I've used x10 stitches that use the imbalance too and don't need a neutral but that user was still short a cable on his intermediate switching that one more cable to the box would address and reduces the need for two wireless switches and some systems do need a neutral.

This a generic thread.

The advice stands it's handy to have the neutral there. Many houses in the uk loop the permanent live at the ceiling rose, that's another option, either have 220v at the switch or the ceiling rose. Typically we have it at neither .

I really don't no much about this. Do we not have live & neutral at very switch?

Stoner

lolliedog wrote:

I really don't no much about this. Do we not have live & neutral at very switch?

No we usually just have switched live and permanent live
At two way switches we have a pair of strappers and either the switched or the permanent live

Stoner

lolliedog wrote:

I really don't no much about this. Do we not have live & neutral at very switch?

No we usually just have switched live and permanent live
At two way switches we have a pair of strappers and either the switched or the permanent live