Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

I'm not always sure how to share the links from this site, but some data between Kroos,Carrick and Herrera. Just pulled out some potentially comparable stuff. Not going to prefix it with any narrative from my end. Kroos this season is playing a bit more advanced in a three man midfield, similar to what we have Herrera doing. But has history operating at the base of a midfield in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3

Caveat for the below is Carrick has played the least minutes, with Herrera playing the most.

Total figures
https://goo.gl/34CVUj

Avg figures per game
https://goo.gl/NxIE33

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

put schneiderlin or Fellaini in the same position as Carrick and we haven't performed as well. Carrick has done best in that position, also allowing Herrera and Pogba to be better.

At this stage we can probably improve on Carrick - I don't specifically know who - but Fellaini and Schneiderlin aren't going to do it.

From our squad, Blind looks so blindly(lul) the obvious choice. I'd very much like to see him in that role against say Reading in the FA Cup. It's like it's just forgotten he came to the club as a midfield to specifically replace Carrick....

Schneiderlan, in retrospect, looks to have just been damaged being deployed in that deeper role. I thought he could do it, but evidently he "kinda" can, but it doesn't really capture what he is good at.

In the current setup, he's probably understudy to Herrera. Although Morgan got absolutely no chances, the games he did play I think we were operating in that 4-2-3-1.

I think it's a bit risky to let Morgan go, obviously I get Mourinho's point with his explanation of the situation, but maybe sometimes a manager needs to be selfish and potentially hamper a player, to plan for the squad. An injury to Herrera and whats the option there? Fellaini?

FA Cup, league Cup, Europa League and then premier league. That's a hefty workload for Carrick,Herrera and Pogba unless Mourinho starts to try some people out.

raze_them_all_

Had to listen to my hammers supporting grandfather tell me how united paid off the ref and he was a 12th man. The delusional old git

Lord TSC

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Had to listen to my hammers supporting grandfather tell me how united paid off the ref and he was a 12th man. The delusional old git

Must be frustrating when a ref seems biased and your team gets hard done by.



Swings and roundabouts and all that....

jayo26

TheDoc wrote: »

What do you mean when you say overlooked?

He is definitely not being overlooked by Zidane, who rates him massively.

He is "possibly" overlooked by Madrid fans, but they are typically braindead when it comes to appreciating good disclipined midfielders (The fact they've given some **** to Kroos for not scoring goals is just symptomatic of their sense of entitlement from the Galactico era)

He is definitely not being overlooked in the general Spanish viewership of the game either, earning plenty of plaudits for the platform he provides that team.

Overlooked maybe in the sense the world and it's mother isn't raving about him. I don't think he's the best DM walking the planet or anything, he is a pretty decent player, but I don't think DM's ever really get the recognition they deserve, but I'd say he is getting a fair share of the plaudits from where it matters?

I mean by game time he has only made about 7 appearances this season and mostly only been parts of games. I'm sure he is highly rated by Zidane but he aint playing much.

Yeh I agree he aint the best in the league but he does have alot of potential and would get better with experience.

sky88

i would love for blind to get a chance against reading as i think we need to try different players in that position as i fear carrick and ibra as well burning out so i would also play rashford up front. You could see ibra yesterday looked very tired and needs a rest.

Doc i have actually watched kroos a lot for madrid as i would watch majority of madrid games and he just hasnt done it for me. it could be that ronaldo, bale etc catch my eye more as im not looking intently on these games as i would uniteds. Plus hes playing with modric who i just love to watch play and i still will never know why we didnt throw the checkbook to spurs and buy him.

Cantona's Collars

Speaking of refs and bias,Sagna is in trouble over what he posted after the Burnley game.

https://twitter.com/hirstclass/status/816272822880391169

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

I mean by game time he has only made about 7 appearances this season and mostly only been parts of games. I'm sure he is highly rated by Zidane but he aint playing much.

Yeh I agree he aint the best in the league but he does have alot of potential and would get better with experience.

Had a pretty bad injury that kept him out for two months and he seemingly needs to be gradually brought back into the fold with a special programme (according to smething I read a few weeks back anyway)

TheDoc

sky88 wrote: »

Doc i have actually watched kroos a lot for madrid as i would watch majority of madrid games and he just hasnt done it for me. it could be that ronaldo, bale etc catch my eye more as im not looking intently on these games as i would uniteds. Plus hes playing with modric who i just love to watch play and i still will never know why we didnt throw the checkbook to spurs and buy him.

That's fair enough , everyone isn't going to agree on every player. Appreciate Modric seems to be most peoples cups of tea, as he is a more eye catching player.

J. Marston

Refs will be wary of giving us the slightest advantage in the future if this is the type of coverage they're going to get...

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/816047127809949697

Poor Mike.

Jayop

It's hilarious how much everyone is pissing themselves over this one performance after the riding we've been getting all season.

You know we're back when it's gung-ho from all corners moaning about us. I love being hated. That vic guy is hilarious in the West Ham thread.

DM_7

Dean did not leave his feet and jump into a tackle he could not win.

It was a stupid tackle and pundits etc should be telling current pros to be more careful.

Jayop

While I don't think it was a red I'm not sure it'll even be recinded.

Mitch Connor

J. Marston wrote: »

Refs will be wary of giving us the slightest advantage in the future if this is the type of coverage they're going to get...


Poor Mike.

United have been on the end of a load of bad calls from the refs this season, and I wonder if this is going to make it even worse. They are going to be fearful of any decision that they give United will be wrong.

DM_7

Jayop wrote: »

While I don't think it was a red I'm not sure it'll even be recinded.

It won't be recinded. It was stupid and wreckless. The end result should not have to be an injury for a player to get punished. Those tackles have to be punished, the real mistakes were the ones Rojo got away with.

Jayop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United have been on the end of a load of bad calls from the refs this season, and I wonder if this is going to make it even worse. They are going to be fearful of any decision that they give United will be wrong.

It's been the same way for 30 years. We get one bad call in our favour for every five against us, but generally despite the bad calls we'd win anyway so nothing would be made about them. When we get the call in our favor and we win then it's a big scandal and we only won because of it. The only decision that mattered yesterday was an early red card. We'd probably still have won anyway. The offside goal didn't matter in the end because one goal would have won't he game.

beno619

Kroos is too weak defensively to replace Carrick.

He'd be fine in the role Herrera occupies.

RobertKK

zerks wrote: »

Speaking of refs and bias,Sagna is in trouble over what he posted after the Burnley game.

https://twitter.com/hirstclass/status/816272822880391169

He should get sanctioned as he said Burnley played with 12 men versus 10.
Clearly implying the referee was cheating.

Jayop

So what do we reckon guys? Chelsea or spurs to win tonight. Chelsea win makes our job of a top 4 place a bit easier but only against spurs. A spurs win brings the gap to the title back to just 10 points which wouldn't be too bad although it's still only a bit of a pipe dream.

I think I'd be happy with either. A title dream is still hanging on by a thread and I'm less worried about spurs than any of the other teams ahead of us in the top 4 battle.

Lukker-

J. Marston wrote: »

Refs will be wary of giving us the slightest advantage in the future if this is the type of coverage they're going to get...

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/816047127809949697

Poor Mike.

It's not purely the United/West Ham game people are lambasting Dean for. He's sent off 7 more players than any other ref this season, often ruining games with an early sending off. Ex-players seem to despise him, he very clearly has no time for footballers and if you question anything to do with him he'll hold it against you. I don't want refs and players to be buddy buddy like Clattenburg tries, but you need to at least show respect and decency.

Case in point. The player looks at Dean the wrong way after the sending off and this is his response:

https://twitter.com/footbalIfights/status/815991510890123264

I think Garth Crooks hit the nail on the head last season:

https://twitter.com/FourFourTweet/status/815979657057210368

BTW he got decisions wrong against both teams yesterday, but honestly if he isn't curbed it could be a United player he sends off next for a relatively innocent challenge. Don't confuse people attacking Dean and United, the 2 aren't synonymous

Mitch Connor

Jayop wrote: »

So what do we reckon guys? Chelsea or spurs to win tonight. Chelsea win makes our job of a top 4 place a bit easier but only against spurs. A spurs win brings the gap to the title back to just 10 points which wouldn't be too bad although it's still only a bit of a pipe dream.

I think I'd be happy with either. A title dream is still hanging on by a thread and I'm less worried about spurs than any of the other teams ahead of us in the top 4 battle.

Title is a pipe dream, COME ON CHELSEA!

Jayop

If Dean had sent off a United player wrongly there wouldn't be a fraction of the uproar. Fact.

Jayop

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Title is a pipe dream, COME ON CHELSEA!

Ten points though? Not insurmountable and I'm really not worried about spurs. They have the Thursday cup coming up which will cost them points and they always seem to get worse as the season goes on. Of all the teams above us spurs are the ones I don't worry about

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

It's hilarious how much everyone is pissing themselves over this one performance after the riding we've been getting all season.

You know we're back when it's gung-ho from all corners moaning about us. I love being hated. That vic guy is hilarious in the West Ham thread.

To be honest I'd say it's just finally, FINALLY, Dean has been called out for his horrendous standard. That United were playing was just a by product. He has made some absolutely horrendous calls on us in the past and I absolutly dread any fixture with us when I see him officiating.

Too often referees get off easily when it comes to the pundits and commentators, getting the "oh its a tough job". Sorry, but they know what they are signing up for when they get into the refing game. And it's no excuse, at this elite level, with this amount of money, and so much riding on the games that referees can operate at this standard.

Mike Dean for a long time now has been an absolute law unto himself. He is the ONLY ref, noticeably, who really clamped down on the shirt pulling to the point where he has become a complete contradiction and contrast to his colleagues.

He is a complete parody, with the way he carries himself and behaves on the pitch, knowing he generates a parody following with his actions and behaviour. As Pearson commented two seasons ago, he is the most arrogant man operating in top level football and it's unbelievable how he feels he is answerable to no one.

I for one love the coverage he is getting. He has pissed me off for way too long with his behaviour and conduct, it's totally unbecoming of a ref, who I literally, nor does any fan, want to give two ****s about. We are here to watch the players, not the ref.

It's frustrating that so much of his careless decision making and poor standard has been overshadowed for so long due to his "parody" persona and the vines and the likes that make him look like a good laugh.

Up there with Phil Dowd for me, was delighted when I saw he retired. Dean can swiftly **** off too. They really need to sort out the referee pool in the premier league, it's atrocious

Lukker-

Jayop wrote: »

Ten points though? Not insurmountable and I'm really not worried about spurs. They have the Thursday cup coming up which will cost them points and they always seem to get worse as the season goes on. Of all the teams above us spurs are the ones I don't worry about

Don't United also play in the "Thursday Cup"?

FutureGuy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Title is a pipe dream, COME ON CHELSEA!

6-1 Chelsea. Nothing to do with Fantasy Football. Honest.

Seriously, I think Chelsea are going to run away with it. Far too consistent under Conte. Realistically, a top 4 is required so a Chelsea win or a draw would be great.

sReq | uTeK

Jayop wrote: »

So what do we reckon guys? Chelsea or spurs to win tonight. Chelsea win makes our job of a top 4 place a bit easier but only against spurs. A spurs win brings the gap to the title back to just 10 points which wouldn't be too bad although it's still only a bit of a pipe dream.

I think I'd be happy with either. A title dream is still hanging on by a thread and I'm less worried about spurs than any of the other teams ahead of us in the top 4 battle.

That's tomorrow

Mitch Connor

FutureGuy wrote: »

6-1 Chelsea. Nothing to do with Fantasy Football. Honest.

Seriously, I think Chelsea are going to run away with it. Far too consistent under Conte. Realistically, a top 4 is required so a Chelsea win or a draw would be great.

they also don't have to worry about euro football so they can plan to keep a much more consistent (and fresh) line up than the other contenders (Liverpool have the same advantage).

Jayop

My biggest reason for maybe wanting a Chelsea win is so as they get further away from Liverpool before we play them.

Yeah tomorrow sorry.

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

If Dean had sent off a United player wrongly there wouldn't be a fraction of the uproar. Fact.

I'd say there would. He's come firmly into the spotlight this season for all the wrong reasons, and in recent weeks and months for some consistently piss poor displays.

It was called by plenty of outlets before the season started, the shirt pulling and addressing the ref in a hostile manner being a bookable offence, had Mike Dean rubbing his hands in glee.

He has been abhorrent abusing that booking players for dissent this season, he's totally unapproachable when you compare to some of the other refs who seem to attempt to explain/build rapport, its shocking how its never addressed.

Jayop

Doc how come then after all these brutal performances is it only now that it's favored United that the uproar is coming? He's had worse games before but no bug complaining on this scale. Very nieve to say that it was united is inconsequential.

Jayop

Lukker- wrote: »

Don't United also play in the "Thursday Cup"?

They do and it'll cost us points too. But we are used to it and probably imo have a squad now better equipped for it.

Lukker-

Jayop wrote: »

Doc how come then after all these brutal performances is it only now that it's favored United that the uproar is coming? He's had worse games before but no bug complaining on this scale. Very nieve to say that it was united is inconsequential.

I really don't think it's United being persecuted. The fact is, it's a big game during the Xmas period. It was on TV, there wasn't any other games on at the same time and lots of people aren't back to work and it was also in the evening time so probably had high viewership. Dean has had some atrocious games this year, for many this was just the straw that broke the camels back.

Mitch Connor

Jayop wrote: »

They do and it'll cost us points too. But we are used to it and probably imo have a squad now better equipped for it.

I'd worry about our midfield to be honest. We only have three players I want to see in those three positions. If Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger leave, as they are rumoured to, this January it will be a massive mistake if we don't bring someone in.

I can't think of anyone suitable or available.

Quandary

Chelsea win all the way for me. I have this gnawing fear that they will eventually hit a bad spell and the team most likely to overtake them and win the title is Liverpool.

The unthinkable cannot be allowed to happen and if hoping for a Chelsea win helps prevent it then that's fine by me

Rayne Wooney

I don't see the need for the outrage, from where Dean was standing it more than likely would have looked dangerous with the player leaving the ground and crunching into Jones and he has to make decisions on what he sees.

Mitch Connor

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I don't see the need for the outrage, from where Dean was standing it more than likely would have looked dangerous with the player leaving the ground and crunching into Jones and he has to make decisions on what he sees.

It was a dangerous tackle - red is somewhat justifiable. Not showing a red to Obiang was a poorer decision, imo.

Bridge93

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It was a dangerous tackle - red is somewhat justifiable. Not showing a red to Obiang was a poorer decision, imo.

Neither were red cards. Can it not just be accepted you got the rub of the green in this game? You've had enough go against you lot this year to have earned a day where things went your way. You don't have to be the victims in every game.

TheDoc

Jayop wrote: »

Doc how come then after all these brutal performances is it only now that it's favored United that the uproar is coming? He's had worse games before but no bug complaining on this scale. Very nieve to say that it was united is inconsequential.

I'd say the fact it happened while it was the only televised game is a big part of it. Really don't think it's anything to do with United.

You'll notice most of the media spread for referee performances comes when its the only televised game, cause all eyes are on.

There has been some absolutely brutal performances over the last few weeks, many have gone largely unnoticed due to them being not being televised(through traditional means) or there being other matches on.

Wasn't it the Palace game recently that was not on any UK channel? I was watching it on NBCSports from the states, so not sure if that game was televised or if I just hid in the PC room, but all the furore over the piss poor decisions there seemed to be centred to United fans. Adox and a few others were mentioning it on this thread, my mates chat group was going mental over it, but in general, not much was said in the wider context.

If I remember correctly, the headlines were actually how we were lucky with Rojo not being sent off.

That was Craig Pawson, who to be fair I don't know how to take. He doesn't annoy me with his attitude, and sometimes I think he is a good ref, but then he has a game like Palace where I'm like "oh dear".

I'd say its actually more specific in this case it being Dean rather than United. Like I said, his attitude and demeanour stinks and rubs a lot of people within football up the wrong way. I thought Quinn's comments were notable for him basically saying he was delighted Dean made a meal of it. More often then not a ref is going to get away a bit lightly with the critique.

The fact it was Dean is why it was visceral, and that it was the only televised match. That it was United playing opens the narrative for Jose earlier in the season and the poor decisions we have had against us, but as you can see from general reporting and fan reaction, that narrative hasn't stuck at all.

GavRedKing

Quandary wrote: »

Chelsea win all the way for me. I have this gnawing fear that they will eventually hit a bad spell and the team most likely to overtake them and win the title is Liverpool.

The unthinkable cannot be allowed to happen and if hoping for a Chelsea win helps prevent it then that's fine by me

I'll make ya a deal, we'll beat Spurs, ye beat Liverpool, everybody wins.

Mitch Connor

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'll make ya a deal, we'll beat Spurs, ye beat Liverpool, everybody wins.

Deal.

Someone tell the higher-ups. (Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and City.... rdrr (bonus simpsons joke!))

duffman13

It probably shouldn't have been a red card really but the bollocks from some of pundits on Sky/BBC since yesterday saying that Jones might have have deserved a red is actually ridiculous. The fact is both players went for a 50/50 that Jones won comfortably and Feghouli was a little late and a bit out of control

Also rich from Bilic saying Jones reaction was dramatic, studs running down the back of your legs and mightily close to your sack will generally cause a bit of a reaction.

TheDoc

Quandary wrote: »

Chelsea win all the way for me. I have this gnawing fear that they will eventually hit a bad spell and the team most likely to overtake them and win the title is Liverpool.

The unthinkable cannot be allowed to happen and if hoping for a Chelsea win helps prevent it then that's fine by me

Personally I'm pretty comfortable not picking sides.

From my perspective, I'm looking at all these games as irrelevant in terms of the victors, it's basically dropped points for someone, regardless of the scenario.

In that mindset where of course I'm keeping tabs on other results, but I'm very much just watching the top 5 play while being neutral knowing any result is beneficial to us with someone dropping points, and just hope and ensure our team continue to win.

Like it's going to be so big when we come to play these teams, starting with Liverpool. It's a cliche but you can only influence your own matches, and if we can pickup some good results against those above us, they are all going to drop points. Either against us or each other.

I'm still with my old belief that it will be who drops the least points against the bottom 10 teams. We got off to a horrible start in that regard, but if we can avoid anymore blunders then I'd say we will probably break into that top 4 regardless.

Which is a massive turnaround considering the piss poor results not so long ago and it was looking a bit hopeless. But even as I said at the time, the end will justify the means.

RobertKK

GavRedKing wrote: »

I'll make ya a deal, we'll beat Spurs, ye beat Liverpool, everybody wins.

Sorry Gav, Spurs win, I am still keeping my eyes on the prize and my bet that has united to win or at worst come 2nd in the league...
But we will beat Liverpool to compensate :P

Rayne Wooney

When you watch something a million times back from 10 different angles obviously it could be different but it doesn't mean the referee didn't make the right decision to the best of his ability in the moment.

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

When you watch something a million times back from 10 different angles obviously it could be different but it doesn't mean the referee didn't make the right decision to the best of his ability in the moment.

And in this instance, he did not. Was a terrible decision.

I got aggravated when the whistle went because I thought a)Jones had busted himself again and b)Jones got a foul given from him, cause it looked like he lunged more so then the West Ham player.

It was a terrible decision, I don't know why you are defending it.

yabadabado

With Schneiderlin looking likely to leave this month and Basti not really in Jose's plan's do ye think there might be a CM bought this window?

I wouldnt expect there to be a big transfer in but maybe a squad player just to cover a few bases.

Mitch Connor

yabadabado wrote: »

With Schneiderlin looking likely to leave this month and Basti not really in Jose's plan's do ye think there might be a CM bought this window?

I wouldnt expect there to be a big transfer in but maybe a squad player just to cover a few bases.

we'd have to bring someone in - the lack of depth would be scary if we didn't.

StringerBell

TheDoc wrote: »

What do you mean when you say overlooked?

He is definitely not being overlooked by Zidane, who rates him massively.

He is "possibly" overlooked by Madrid fans, but they are typically braindead when it comes to appreciating good disclipined midfielders (The fact they've given some **** to Kroos for not scoring goals is just symptomatic of their sense of entitlement from the Galactico era)

He is definitely not being overlooked in the general Spanish viewership of the game either, earning plenty of plaudits for the platform he provides that team.

Overlooked maybe in the sense the world and it's mother isn't raving about him. I don't think he's the best DM walking the planet or anything, he is a pretty decent player, but I don't think DM's ever really get the recognition they deserve, but I'd say he is getting a fair share of the plaudits from where it matters?

Been banging the drum about him for years at this stage, always been a big admirer as anybody who has seen me post over the years could tell you I guess. Think his potential for the role is huge and would love him at United.

He is appreciated there by Zidane for sure, he understands. But much in the same way as Madrid were actually happy to let Makelele go they will never appreciate a player like Casemiro properly, they will never be too concerned about letting him go or giving him the praise he would ever deserve.

The role he plays also will not garner huge attention in Spain but I think he would be gaining plenty of plaudits from the English media if he was playing here.

In short, he is overlooked by Spanish media and Madrid fans/board more then likely, but who cares really?Especially if it made him a more attainable in the future

jimmytwotimes 2013

Regarding Kroos, I'd take Modric ahead of him and look elsewhere for a DM