Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

bucketybuck

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Noble is their Captain.

And stout are the men!!!

Dwarf.Shortage

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

As relevant as saying that they deserved to win for having nicer jerseys and better fans.

Well no, in terms of whether or not they should win saying the team had the better of the general play, control of the game and chances created is not "as relevant" as saying they have the better jersey and fans.

If you can't figure out why I'm not sure there's anything I can do to help you.

jayo26

edgecutter wrote: »

Just seen Rooney saying the media coverage he is getting is a disgrace and shows no respect. Seriously, the ego on this guy he needs to shut up. If you don't want to be front page material then don't stay up to 6am at a wedding with tons of people who have cameras.

He is showing a bit of fight and defending himself and is right the media are a disgrace they do it to everyone that achieve something. He wasn't the only one there and as has been said there was a dozen players in London not even in the team hotel.

He is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't.

Cantona's Collars

Fergie is one of many on a list who have to pay back a fortune after an investment scheme was found to be a tax avoidance scheme.Afaik Robbie Keane,Carrick,Lampard and many more are involved.

Nick Wood, an adviser for hundreds of investors in the Eclipse 35 partnership, told The Times: 'I think there will be people potentially jumping off bridges.

'My expectation is, out the 780 people involved, I'd think it highly likely that up to 600-700 would go bankrupt.'

An investor to the scheme who stumped up £200,000, for example, could be expected to pay back somewhere between £2million and £4million.

deaddonkey15

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Well no, in terms of whether or not they should win saying the team had the better of the general play, control of the game and chances created is not "as relevant" as saying they have the better jersey and fans.

If you can't figure out why I'm not sure there's anything I can do to help you.

Except the expression was 'deserved to win' - past tense, not 'should win' which implies the game is yet to occur. So looking back and saying we deserved to win because of our chances created, and general play is utterly pointless. We deserve to win when we score more goals than the likes of Arsenal, Stoke, Burnley etc. Not when we create lots of chances and put some nice moves together.

jayo26

Another hatrick from ronaldo that man just keeps going and going love him.

Trigger

jayo26 wrote: »

Another hatrick from ronaldo that man just keeps going and going love him.

Yeah and opened up a 4 point gap with Barca only drawing at home to 9 man Malaga.

Atleti 5th and Villareal who are in 4th have a game in hand, need to get the finger out

deaddonkey15

jayo26 wrote: »

Another hatrick from ronaldo that man just keeps going and going love him.

Bellague in the studio claimed the first was a Varane goal because it took a nick off him as it flew past, he didn't know much about it. He then made a point of saying Ronaldo wasn't scoring freely lately but "scored two" tonight. Ridiculous how anti-Ronaldo he is.

RobertKK

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Bellague in the studio claimed the first was a Varane goal because it took a nick off him as it flew past, he didn't know much about it. He then made a point of saying Ronaldo wasn't scoring freely lately but "scored two" tonight. Ridiculous how anti-Ronaldo he is.

I wouldn't take much notice of Ballague, he has a Messi fetish.

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Yeah and opened up a 4 point gap with Barca only drawing at home to 9 man Malaga.

Atleti 5th and Villareal who are in 4th have a game in hand, need to get the finger out

Im actually happy to see Zidane do well it took balls for him to take that job and to win the champs league and then come back and build on it the next season if they keep going as they are. It's going to be a challenge to see how he keeps that squad fresh with lack of transfer action.

jayo26

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Bellague in the studio claimed the first was a Varane goal because it took a nick off him as it flew past, he didn't know much about it. He then made a point of saying Ronaldo wasn't scoring freely lately but "scored two" tonight. Ridiculous how anti-Ronaldo he is.

If balague was Irish his name would be Eamon Dunphy he is seriously stealing a living from sky TV I would have no respect for his opinion.

deaddonkey15

jayo26 wrote: »

If balague was Irish his name would be Eamon Dunphy he is seriously stealing a living from sky TV I would have no respect for his opinion.

At least Dunphy is funny.

jayo26

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

At least Dunphy is funny.

Ummmm no he aint.... He was back in the days of italia 90 and USA 94 but now he is just talking sh1t for the sake of attention.

Dwarf.Shortage

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Except the expression was 'deserved to win' - past tense, not 'should win' which implies the game is yet to occur. So looking back and saying we deserved to win because of our chances created, and general play is utterly pointless. We deserve to win when we score more goals than the likes of Arsenal, Stoke, Burnley etc. Not when we create lots of chances and put some nice moves together.

I'm ok for English lessons thanks. We don't "deserve" to win when we score more than the opposition, in those cases we actually win.

We deserve to win when the overall picture of the game (chances created, possession, general play etc) are such that one could expect the team to win 7 or 8 out of ten games which had similar characteristics.

We scored a goal and Arsenals first shot on target was in the 88th minute, you're going to win 99 out of 100 such games, ergo we deserved to win.

But please, tell me more about how the tenses people use in their arguments validate your ridiculous views on what constitutes deserving to win a game.

sReq | uTeK

Just watched the game. We were absolute class for 90 minutes..very unfortunate to draw that game.

1 million per cent moving in the right direction.

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

Another hatrick from ronaldo that man just keeps going and going love him.

https://twitter.com/selecaoportugal/status/799700044085690373

Liam McPoyle

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

The special unlucky one!!

deaddonkey15

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

I'm ok for English lessons thanks. We don't "deserve" to win when we score more than the opposition, in those cases we actually win.

I wasn't giving an English lesson. You said "should win" when I took issue with the phrase "deserved to win". They're not the same thing.

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

We deserve to win when the overall picture of the game (chances created, possession, general play etc) are such that one could expect the team to win 7 or 8 out of ten games which had similar characteristics.

We deserve to win when we score more goals than the team we are playing against. Today we should have used our chances created, possession and general play to get more than 1 goal to cement our lead, or else prevent Arsenal from scoring to ensure our 1 goal would be enough. We didn't do either of those things and got exactly what we deserved - a draw.

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

We scored a goal and Arsenals first shot on target was in the 88th minute, you're going to win 99 out of 100 such games, ergo we deserved to win.

We deserved to beat Arsenal, deserved to beat Stoke,deserved to beat Burnley, deserved a draw against City. Are we going to keep this childish sh*t up all season?

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

But please, tell me more about how the tenses people use in their arguments validate your ridiculous views on what constitutes deserving to win a game.

Ha, scoring more goals than the opposition - what a ridiculous way to show you're deserving of winning a football match. Perhaps we should petition the FA to change this ridiculous goal scoring system?

Trigger

https://www.instagram.com/p/BNAQoGihGQU/

"After a great perfomance but a bad result I had a phone call from king Diego. Gracias amigo. With you, with my family, with other friends, with my players and with Utd amazing supporters… Monday i will be ready again!!!"

Dwarf.Shortage

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I wasn't giving an English lesson. You said "should win" when I took issue with the phrase "deserved to win". They're not the same thing.



We deserve to win when we score more goals than the team we are playing against. Today we should have used our chances created, possession and general play to get more than 1 goal to cement our lead, or else prevent Arsenal from scoring to ensure our 1 goal would be enough. We didn't do either of those things and got exactly what we deserved - a draw.



We deserved to beat Arsenal, deserved to beat Stoke,deserved to beat Burnley, deserved a draw against City. Are we going to keep this childish sh*t up all season?



Ha, scoring more goals than the opposition - what a ridiculous way to show you're deserving of winning a football match. Perhaps we should petition the FA to change this ridiculous goal scoring system?

Claims made earlier in the thread that the team should have won the game or deserved to win the game were quite obviously in the context of the team having not in fact won the game.

Had we scored more than Arsenal today nobody would be talking about how we deserved to win. As such your claim that "We deserve to win when we score more goals than the team we are playing against" is a fallacy.

If you win the narrative isn't "we should have won" it's just "we won".

jayo26

So the latest on the rooney story is that while rooney was being totally unprofessional and drinking in the team hotel some of his team mates travelled over 100 miles to a strip club the same night.

The_Kew_Tour

Another good performance, but result does not reflect it. Should have won 3-0.

Im keeping the faith. We are going in right direction and confident we will get reward sooner then later with good run.

sReq | uTeK

When you look at the league table and you look at what we should have had after our last 3 home matches it's very frustrating.

However as I said before I'm starting to enjoy watching us again.

Quandary

Wouldn't it be great if Jones was able able to stay injury free. Bailly , Smalling, Jones fighting it out for starting places would be a nice problem to have. In fairness to Rojo, he has also looked fairly decent in his few game at centre half which has been surprising.

The last few results have been annoying but I think Jose is getting it right, maybe not as quickly as he or some people might like but I do think we are improving. I'm enjoying watching the team again this season. I also think Pogba is becoming more influential in games. He will never be able to do enough in some people's eyes to justify his price tag but I think he is doing fine and will become a vital player for us.

It will be interesting to see where we are in the league when Jose has had the same amount of games in charge as Klopp or Pochettino.

deaddonkey15

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Claims made earlier in the thread that the team should have won the game or deserved to win the game were quite obviously in the context of the team having not in fact won the game.

Had we scored more than Arsenal today nobody would be talking about how we deserved to win. As such your claim that "We deserve to win when we score more goals than the team we are playing against" is a fallacy.

If you win the narrative isn't "we should have won" it's just "we won".

Well if we win, the win is obviously deserved. Chelsea deserved to win when we played them earlier this season because they scored 4 times and we didn't score at all. Walcott claimed that Arsenal deserved the draw after today's game and he was right. They had more possession than us and were far more clinical. Defensively, they were as good as we were. Why then did they deserve to lose and we deserved to win?

My claim that "We deserve to win when we score more goals than the team we are playing against" is certainly not a fallacy, it's a fact of life. You deserve something when you do what's necessary to achieve it. If you don't do what's necessary, then why do you deserve it?

niallo27

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Well if we win, the win is obviously deserved. Chelsea deserved to win when we played them earlier this season because they scored 4 times and we didn't score at all. Walcott claimed that Arsenal deserved the draw after today's game and he was right. They had more possession than us and were far more clinical. Defensively, they were as good as we were. Why then did they deserve to lose and we deserved to win?

My claim that "We deserve to win when we score more goals than the team we are playing against" is certainly not a fallacy, it's a fact of life. You deserve something when you do what's necessary to achieve it. If you don't do what's necessary, then why do you deserve it?

Yes but sometimes you don't always get what you deserve in life.

KaiserGunner

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Another good performance, but result does not reflect it. Should have won 3-0.

Im keeping the faith. We are going in right direction and confident we will get reward sooner then later with good run.

Utd were the better team yesterday, but why should it have been 3-0? Cech had to make one decent save from Mata in the whole match, that was it. Mourinho said the same thing in his post match interview, but I'm failing to see where the 3 goals were coming from, you swear Utd peppered the Arsenal goal all game. It was a match of very few chances, kinda like the Liverpool Man Utd match a few weeks ago.

bucketybuck

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Utd were the better team yesterday, but why should it have been 3-0? Cech had to make one decent save from Mata in the whole match, that was it. Mourinho said the same thing in his post match interview, but I'm failing to see where the 3 goals were coming from, you swear Utd peppered the Arsenal goal all game. It was a match of very few chances, kinda like the Liverpool Man Utd match a few weeks ago.

I remember one cross from Rashford that was flashed across the goals and just inches from being turned in, and then there was the penalty appeal which 7/8 times out of ten would have been given. So while its not really a case of "should" have been 3-0, with a bit of luck it certainly could have been.

And if there is one thing we aren't getting this season it is lucky.

gosplan

bucketybuck wrote: »

I remember one cross from Rashford that was flashed across the goals and just inches from being turned in, and then there was the penalty appeal which 7/8 times out of ten would have been given. So while its not really a case of "should" have been 3-0, with a bit of luck it certainly could have been.

And if there is one thing we aren't getting this season it is lucky.

I think the only way Utd were unlucky was that one moment of bad defending cost them an equaliser.

Penalty wasn't a penalty. Best chance from open play was Sanchez's awful miss early on.

Utd were unlucky with the equaliser but apart from that 1-0 was about right.

Dwarf.Shortage

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

You deserve something when you do what's necessary to achieve it. If you don't do what's necessary, then why do you deserve it?

In sport you control the process, not the outcome. You can do everything right and lose, you can do very little right and win.

A team doesn't only deserve to win games they win and may not deserve to lose games they lose.

Liam O

gosplan wrote: »

I think the only way Utd were unlucky was that one moment of bad defending cost them an equaliser.

Penalty wasn't a penalty. Best chance from open play was Sanchez's awful miss early on.

Utd were unlucky with the equaliser but apart from that 1-0 was about right.

United have had a major problem this season in turning dominance into goals. It seems unlucky but when it's happening every week there are obviously other factors at play. Really lacking top class wide forwards imo. Also their defensive responsibility and lack of interchanging means that when they come up against a structured team they find it hard to break down as nobody is being dragged out of position.

greendom

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Another good performance, but result does not reflect it. Should have won 3-0.

Im keeping the faith. We are going in right direction and confident we will get reward sooner then later with good run.

What was wrong with Giroud's goal?

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

United have had a major problem this season in turning dominance into goals. It seems unlucky but when it's happening every week there are obviously other factors at play. Really lacking top class wide forwards imo. Also their defensive responsibility and lack of interchanging means that when they come up against a structured team they find it hard to break down as nobody is being dragged out of position.

I dont know what this is about but we have had so much go wrong in this area the last few years from buying to class or having potential not working out. Zaha, Januzi, Di,Maria, Depay, Martial, Miki not writing off the last few yet but its frustrating after all that to not have a decent regular performer Mata has worked out to some degree but not sure he will ever be a wide player for me or if he is we have never got the balance right with him

Cantona's Collars

We seem to be still making poor decisions when balls are played across the box, it's as if the players want the perfect ball to feet every time and aren't following in when low crosses are played. It's happened a lot this season,if you take a chance at running into the 6 yard box rather than waiting for the ball to land on your toe you might get more goals. I learned that at an early age with shouts of "follow it in", " make a run". We can't always score the perfect goal,even the 3 yard tap ins count.

J. Marston

Off topic but after listening to the commentary yesterday, give me Carragher over Neville on TV anyday.

Neville is an insufferable arse.

bucketybuck

gosplan wrote: »

I think the only way Utd were unlucky was that one moment of bad defending cost them an equaliser.

Penalty wasn't a penalty. Best chance from open play was Sanchez's awful miss early on.

Utd were unlucky with the equaliser but apart from that 1-0 was about right.

Maybe it was a penalty, maybe it wasn't, but I still think that the vast majority of times the ref gives it and so that makes it unlucky for us.

deaddonkey15

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

In sport you control the process, not the outcome. You can do everything right and lose, you can do very little right and win.

A team doesn't only deserve to win games they win and may not deserve to lose games they lose.

But United didn't do everything right. They struggled to create good chances, the ones did they did create were missed/easily saved. They scored one goal and failed to defend their lead. Why did they deserve to win?

Dwarf.Shortage

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

But United didn't do everything right. They struggled to create good chances, the ones did they did create were missed/easily saved. They scored one goal and failed to defend their lead. Why did they deserve to win?

On the basis of watching the game I am happy with my conclusion that, on balance, Utd deserved to win.

We've both made our position clear and are at this point repeating ourselves, we're not going to agree so let's not hijack the thread.

gosplan

bucketybuck wrote: »

Maybe it was a penalty, maybe it wasn't, but I still think that the vast majority of times the ref gives it and so that makes it unlucky for us.

But then you may as well say Utd were lucky because Sanchez scores that chance he had more often or Arsenal aren't that bad so often.

You can only judge what happened on the pitch yesterday. Not what happens on other pitches other days.

Utd didn't create much. One goal is about right.

They were very unlucky that Arsenal converted from so few chances.

blueser

greendom wrote: »

What was wrong with Giroud's goal?

Some utd fans on here are claiming that Phil Jones was fouled as the cross was coming in. There was certainly contact, which ended up with Jones on the deck. Interesting watching the highlights though; not one utd player (not even Jones himself) appealed for a foul.

Flint Fredstone

blueser wrote: »

Some utd fans on here are claiming that Phil Jones was fouled as the cross was coming in. There was certainly contact, which ended up with Jones on the deck. Interesting watching the highlights though; not one utd player (not even Jones himself) appealed for a foul.

Well that's that settled then. Definitely not a foul so.

blueser

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Well that's that settled then. Definitely not a foul so.

I was only answering so the question that was asked. There's no need for the sarcasm.

bucketybuck

blueser wrote: »

Some utd fans on here are claiming that Phil Jones was fouled as the cross was coming in. There was certainly contact, which ended up with Jones on the deck. Interesting watching the highlights though; not one utd player (not even Jones himself) appealed for a foul.

Because it wasn't a foul. Jones was all over the place before that cross came in, he was watching the ball and then as it went over his head he was on his heels shuffling back until he backed into the attacking Arsenal players and went on his arse. It was the very opposite of a center back dominating his area.

niallo27

bucketybuck wrote: »

Maybe it was a penalty, maybe it wasn't, but I still think that the vast majority of times the ref gives it and so that makes it unlucky for us.

It's looked stonewall from our angle on TV but when they showed the refs angle you can see why he didn't give it.

Jayop

niallo27 wrote: »

It's looked stonewall from our angle on TV but when they showed the refs angle you can see why he didn't give it.

Because he bottled it. It was a penalty from every angle there was. Shocking decision

jayo26

Here is pat to cheer us up lads
https://www.instagram.com/p/BNCQCj5jBN3/

sky88

J. Marston wrote: »

Off topic but after listening to the commentary yesterday, give me Carragher over Neville on TV anyday.

Neville is an insufferable arse.

I don't mind him on non United matches but he's so bad with United. Scholes is the worse. Giggs hasn't seemed to bad but haven't seen a lot of him.

adox

Rojo missed a similar chance to Sanchez. Martial was inches away from putting a cross in. There's two excellent chances besides the goal and four others on target.

Also when managers say their team should have won 2 or 3 nil it doesn't really need to be taken literally. I think most know what managers are trying to say.

Blatter

Mourinho definitely has the team playing better and is showing a more clear, consistent improvement than Moyes or van Gaal had ever achieved (bar maybe a 5-6 game spell towards the end of van Gaal's first season). I'm reasonably happy at the progress shown. They're playing well for the most part but just missing that steel to see a game out or conviction to kill one off. I believe that'll come in time.

Another important thing to take into account is Pogba. He's shown real signs in the last few weeks that he's finding a suitable role in the team and he's getting more and more effective. When the team gets more cohesive and if he keeps going the way he is, he's going to be a real deal breaker when it comes to deciding games. I suppose that's what £89m gets you!

Cantona's Collars

Blatter wrote: »

Another important thing to take into account is Pogba. He's shown real signs in the last few weeks that he's finding a suitable role in the team and he's getting more and more effective. When the team gets more cohesive and if he keeps going the way he is, he's going to be a real deal breaker when it comes to deciding games. I suppose that's what £89m gets you!

More passes and dribbles than any other United player this season.