Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

adox

Blatter wrote: »

Mourinho definitely has the team playing better and is showing a more clear, consistent improvement than Moyes or van Gaal had ever achieved (bar maybe a 5-6 game spell towards the end of van Gaal's first season). I'm reasonably happy at the progress shown. They're playing well for the most part but just missing that steel to see a game out or conviction to kill one off. I believe that'll come in time.

Another important thing to take into account is Pogba. He's shown real signs in the last few weeks that he's finding a suitable role in the team and he's getting more and more effective. When the team gets more cohesive and if he keeps going the way he is, he's going to be a real deal breaker when it comes to deciding games. I suppose that's what £89m gets you!

Agree to an extent about Pogba. He has certainly impressed in the last few weeks. I do think the players behind him need to be aware of his limitations. Maybe limitations isn't the right word. They should be aware of his natural game. He's a weird one as he has the appearance and tools to be the complete midfielder. He's athletic, very skillfull, very strong, deceptively fast and a brilliant passer. Yet for all that his defensive discipline is poor. It just doesn't seem to come naturally to him and he will time and time again not track players or let them run off him.
Now we know that's what you get with him but I'm not sure his fellow players do yet. It's one thing having the likes of Mata in an advanced midfield role but when you have an athelete like Pogba just in front of you I guess you think he's going to do his job defensively. I also think he could do more defensively even allowing for his natural attack minded game.

Funnily enough he also looks nearly more effective picking the ball up deeper where he can run with it or pick out a pass. I honestly think if he applied himself he has all the tools to be th complete midfielder but it's seems to be accepted concensus that he will be a dynamic attack minded midfielder with few defensive responsibilities.

Dwarf.Shortage

Rooney was promising against Arsenal too actually, didn't do his crab impression at all.

Hopefully it's the start of an upturn in his form rather than a once off reaction to the slating the media gave him.

bangkok

Still sick over dropping 2 points against arsenal. They deserved nothing. Ozil again in a big game doesn't turn up.

Also where is mkhitarayan?!

Dwarf.Shortage

bangkok wrote: »

Still sick over dropping 2 points against arsenal. They deserved nothing. Ozil again in a big game doesn't turn up.

Also where is mkhitarayan?!

I'd also love to know the truth about Mkhitarayan but realistically anyone who responds to that in this thread is guessing. Whether he's poxy in training or lazy or has an attitude issue or some other behind the scenes issue at present I don't think there's any way to know exactly what the issue is.

Cantona's Collars

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

Rooney was promising against Arsenal too actually, didn't do his crab impression at all.

Hopefully it's the start of an upturn in his form rather than a once off reaction to the slating the media gave him.

Jose said he left him out of the starting XI as he's too slow.

“I thought we were going to have the ball,” said Mourinho via the Daily Mirror. “Arsenal are a team who let the opponents play.

“I thought we would have space and the ball would arrive quite easily to the attacking players.

“I believed ones like Juan Mata, Anthony Martial and Marcus Rashford were faster than Wayne — better attacking opponents one-to-one in the last line. I thought it was the best option.”

The_Kew_Tour

greendom wrote: »

What was wrong with Giroud's goal?

I say you got wrong post

bangkok

sky 88 "As good as Carrick has been you put him in the team a gainist the top6 or 7 teams and he won't do anything. He'd get run all over the place"

class yet again against a top side in the league

Jayop

So results against the four top teams this year have been strange. Draws with Arsenal and Liverpool, one of which we should have won, well beaten by Chelsea and unlucky against city despite having been awful in the first half.

Not great results and 3 points left behind.

The_Kew_Tour

I suppose its a fail that in last 3 seasons and most likely this one we wont be winning the league or even got close

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I suppose its a fail that in last 3 seasons and most likely this one we wont be winning the league or even got close

Depends if we get the team working this season and keep showing certain signs of improved play it would make it easier to accept.

Feynord Thursday night will be an important enough game we need a win there to keep the Europa League as a backup incase we have not done enough to be in with a shout of top four come February.

greendom

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I say you got wrong post

well you thought a fairer score would have been 3 - 0 - that suggests to me there was something wrong with the goal Arsenal scored ?

Jayop

greendom wrote: »

well you thought a fairer score would have been 3 - 0 - that suggests to me there was something wrong with the goal Arsenal scored ?

Christ almighty, how pedantic do you have to be to still keep this up. It was clearly a turn of phrase and he could have as easily said we should have won by two or three.

TheDoc

Just saw Jose quote that Rooney was left out because Mata was faster?

If ever there was a statement of a career finished haha

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Whatever about Martial, the last thing the team needs now is giving Memphis a spot. He's miles off the first eleven IMO.

Appreciate the sentiment, but having worked his way back into the national team, scoring twice during that break when Martial has been excluded with some harsh words about his form, I don't think it's unreasonable to maybe drop a totally out of form player for someone who might just be a few games away from regaining his.

Rashford is being massively overworked and his development doesn't look great to me being shunted out wide by Mourinho, nor does Martial for that matter.

Martial and Rashford shouldn't be starting against West Ham. If they do, it's ridiculous from the manager who has assets and tools he is under utilising or just ignoring.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

This is why I have no real problems with Jose. It was about now I lost faith in Moyes, and about now last year I lost faith in LVG. But I can see progress being made under Jose.

The problem today, as you outlined, has been there for three seasons now, so simply reaffirms my belief that there's a rotten core to the players right now, and its them who we need to work on shipping out.

We said last year that if progress was being made, if we were playing good football, we'd be inclined to show patience for the manager, and you can't say we don't look better now compared to pre-Jose, even if the results aren't reflecting that (yet). If he can bring in more players on POgba's level, ship out the underpreformaners and build on what we're seeing, I have 100% faith in Jose to do right by us.

I definitely chilled out later in the day, when I went to a party I was looking forward to for weeks and got pissed as a fart.

There was massive positives from the game, the team is looking gradually better and better, I don't think anywhere near what I'd consider acceptable either in standard or the time it's taking, but of course it's getting there.

But as I mentioned in another post, most will be forgotten with a result like that against on the day, piss poor opposition.

It's all fine dropping these points, putting it down to "luck" (what nonsense) or transition(really shouldn't tolerate this at a club our size but hey) but it's only fine when the end justifies the means.

Our rivals are leaving us in a trail, there is A LOT of points that need picking up, and this team needs to put a serious run together. A run I'm not in anyway convinced it can. On paper it should, but in reality, this team is completely unreliable and more likely to shoot itself in the foot and go back to square one, then put together a 6-7 winstrak to apply pressure.

The_Kew_Tour

greendom wrote: »

well you thought a fairer score would have been 3 - 0 - that suggests to me there was something wrong with the goal Arsenal scored ?

United were the better side with bit to spare. I be very worried about yer performance if I was a Arsenal fan tbh. Ye still lack that bite and toughness.

United have plenty of worries of their own mind you but to watch its much better then last season.

TheDoc

adox wrote: »

Agree to an extent about Pogba. He has certainly impressed in the last few weeks. I do think the players behind him need to be aware of his limitations. Maybe limitations isn't the right word. They should be aware of his natural game. He's a weird one as he has the appearance and tools to be the complete midfielder. He's athletic, very skillfull, very strong, deceptively fast and a brilliant passer. Yet for all that his defensive discipline is poor. It just doesn't seem to come naturally to him and he will time and time again not track players or let them run off him.
Now we know that's what you get with him but I'm not sure his fellow players do yet. It's one thing having the likes of Mata in an advanced midfield role but when you have an athelete like Pogba just in front of you I guess you think he's going to do his job defensively. I also think he could do more defensively even allowing for his natural attack minded game.

Funnily enough he also looks nearly more effective picking the ball up deeper where he can run with it or pick out a pass. I honestly think if he applied himself he has all the tools to be th complete midfielder but it's seems to be accepted concensus that he will be a dynamic attack minded midfielder with few defensive responsibilities.

I'd agree with you that I'm starting to see the method in having him in the deeper roles. When he gets motoring, he is brilliant. He's definitly improve the last while and I thought he was great on Saturday.

I think his defensive limitations won't be an issue. For years we had Scholes there who couldn't defend for his life, but we had others there doing it. Once we have people mobile enough and clever enough to do it that will be fine.

Can't be underestimated also how a settled team would improve so much also. I assume that is where Jose wants to get, find the players, then play them week in week out. My big gripe with Van Gaal was he dropped and changed too much and players couldn't ever get settled with each other.

As our team gets more settled and consistent they will know how Pogba operates and he will know how those around him operate.

I see that three man midfield as the way forward. Pogba in the left channel and Hererra in the right and then ONE person anchoring. Hererra has an engine to work box to box.

I don't believe for a second that player is Carrick at 35 years of age. Mourinho is clearly just not interested in Schneiderlan, so our options are simply just Blind or Fellaini.

I'd say we will have a new DM coming into the team within the next two windows. Not sure what is out there exactly, but expect rumours and links to Carvallho to surface again for the next two windows I'd assume.

Trigger

TheDoc wrote: »

Just saw Jose quote that Rooney was left out because Mata was faster?

If ever there was a statement of a career finished haha

Looking at the quote.. which I think was posted a couple of posts ago, it seems it was that Mata was a better dribbler and Rashford and Martial where the pace and could attack players better..

It doesn't look good for him. Either way tbh.

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I be very worried about yer performance if I was a Arsenal fan tbh.

Indeed. For all that we are supposed to be the team struggling and under performing, we still completely outplayed a team that's supposed to be a genuine title challenger. Keep doing that and things will be alright.

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

sky 88 "As good as Carrick has been you put him in the team a gainist the top6 or 7 teams and he won't do anything. He'd get run all over the place"

class yet again against a top side in the league

Calling him class is a pure exaggeration. His silly mistake aside which I'll accept will happen with anyone, Arsenal had a little spell in the first half of good interchange play and he looked completely at sea.

This is going to be me and you constantly at odds over this, but I cannot fathom how anyone sees him as a solution to this team at his age and what he provides.

I'll happily accept him playing in games like Swansea, because his passing and dictation is good, when our entire team is in domination. But calling him class yesterday is so inaccurate, and considering Arsenal were absolutely dire I'd say again its another handy little example to try call him class when he really hasn't been put to the test.

I'll maintain with conviction him included in the big games is a major concern.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I suppose its a fail that in last 3 seasons and most likely this one we wont be winning the league or even got close

I'd say competing should be a minimum expectation for our club, regardless of new manager or not. Especially one with a track record of hitting the ground running.

While it would be abject failure and a failure of objectives the manager and club clearly set at the start of the season, I'd be willing to accept failure this season and non competition if it meant challenging next season with a side more reflective of the manager and who has had a year in the job.

But nothing is ever certain in football.

Missing out on CL is an abject failure bordering negligence and would raise serious and justified questions about the clubs current direction and leadership (not exclusive to the manager)

Flint Fredstone

Arsenal won't be winning anything of note this season.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Indeed. For all that we are supposed to be the team struggling and under performing, we still completely outplayed a team that's supposed to be a genuine title challenger. Keep doing that and things will be alright.

You know getting a result from playing terribly, was our schtick for a long time.

We can't even get results when playing well......

greendom

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

United were the better side with bit to spare. I be very worried about yer performance if I was a Arsenal fan tbh. Ye still lack that bite and toughness.

United have plenty of worries of their own mind you but to watch its much better then last season.

It was a dreadfully bad performance but I'm not reading too much into it just yet. We generally bring our Z game to OT. Added to that the international break which are always a disaster for us. Also up against Mourinho who has some sort of hex on Wenger. The fact that we got something from such a pitiful performance suggests things may be changing. We'll see.

The_Kew_Tour

TheDoc wrote: »

You know getting a result from playing terribly, was our schtick for a long time.

We can't even get results when playing well......

Your last post was fair point too but just wanted reply to this one.

Its a valid argument you make, but United when they were poor was 4-5 times better then what Arsenal showed at weekend.

Good teams will get points when playing bad, but Arsenal were even worse then bad.

It wasn't a total one sided game, but United were comfortable.

The_Kew_Tour

greendom wrote: »

It was a dreadfully bad performance but I'm not reading too much into it just yet. We generally bring our Z game to OT. Added to that the international break which are always a disaster for us. Also up against Mourinho who has some sort of hex on Wenger. The fact that we got something from such a pitiful performance suggests things may be changing. We'll see.

Ya, I could well be proven wrong and its a marathon not a sprint and you will always have few poor performances, but if ye want to win the league and lets be honest thats what Arsenal fans really want, you cant put excuses like International break and going to certain stadium and not performing. Leaves you with less room to drop the silly points every team does, although in fairness a point is excellent result for Arsenal.

But I just did not see what Arsenal bring that Liverpool, City and Chelsea have brought so far.

KaiserGunner

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

United were the better side with bit to spare. I be very worried about yer performance if I was a Arsenal fan tbh. Ye still lack that bite and toughness.

United have plenty of worries of their own mind you but to watch its much better then last season.

Yeah as an Arsenal fan I was very worried about that performance but I was half expecting it though. Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge are two grounds that Arsenal just roll over at, regardless of how poor Man Utd or Chelsea are doing, which is really annoying as an Arsenal fan. I don't think Arsenal will have as blunt an attacking game all season, which is a credit to Man Utd. Getting a draw in those circumstances is a positive that can be taken out of it though. It's one tough game on paper out of the way now for us.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Calling him class is a pure exaggeration. His silly mistake aside which I'll accept will happen with anyone, Arsenal had a little spell in the first half of good interchange play and he looked completely at sea.

This is going to be me and you constantly at odds over this, but I cannot fathom how anyone sees him as a solution to this team at his age and what he provides.

I'll happily accept him playing in games like Swansea, because his passing and dictation is good, when our entire team is in domination. But calling him class yesterday is so inaccurate, and considering Arsenal were absolutely dire I'd say again its another handy little example to try call him class when he really hasn't been put to the test.

I'll maintain with conviction him included in the big games is a major concern.

currently, he is the solution. we play our best football with him in the team and look a much more balanced side. also to say Arsenal were dire is not his fault, he was one of the reasons he made them look dire, he was very tidy in possession and his positional play was exceptional

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Your last post was fair point too but just wanted reply to this one.

Its a valid argument you make, but United when they were poor was 4-5 times better then what Arsenal showed at weekend.

Good teams will get points when playing bad, but Arsenal were even worse then bad.

It wasn't a total one sided game, but United were comfortable.

Was a bit of a tongue in cheek/melodramatic post if I'm honest

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

currently, he is the solution. we play our best football with him in the team and look a much more balanced side. also to say Arsenal were dire is not his fault, he was one of the reasons he made them look dire, he was very tidy in possession and his positional play was exceptional

Sorry just cannot see what he is doing to justify alienating players like Schneiderlan or benching Blind and don't for a second believe he is the missing piece of the puzzle many make out

Hererra is doing far more in the midfield area setting the tempo, pressing and winning back possession.

sky88

bangkok wrote: »

sky 88 "As good as Carrick has been you put him in the team a gainist the top6 or 7 teams and he won't do anything. He'd get run all over the place"

class yet again against a top side in the league

While he coped better defensively than i thought he would and have to give him credit there however bad arsenal were. he had no real impact on the game with the ball.

Morgan and blind could have done the job he done on saturday.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Sorry just cannot see what he is doing to justify alienating players like Schneiderlan or benching Blind and don't for a second believe he is the missing piece of the puzzle many make out

Hererra is doing far more in the midfield area setting the tempo, pressing and winning back possession.

well it looks like Jose has been so impressed with him that United are going to offer him a new 1 year contract.

Watching Carrick live is when you see just how good he is, a lot of his positional play isnt picked up on tv cameras as he is one step ahead of the opposition before they play they pass and he blocks it off. he also allows Pogba more freedom and gives herrera the platform to push on and press as they know Carrick is there to cover

Sebastian Dangerfield

Id like to see Blind get a run in midfield again, I don't see it happening though

Rayne Wooney

Mata has been involved in 145 goals since he got to England, for comparison Aguero has been involved in 196. Impressive numbers from the little Spaniard.

bangkok

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Mata has been involved in 145 goals since he got to England, for comparison Aguero has been involved in 196. Impressive numbers from the little Spaniard.

Mata is class in everything he does on and off the pitch

Jose wih Manchester Evening News

I would like to see Carrick get one more season and it seems that Jose is thinking of going that way...

Jose wih Manchester Evening News wrote:

Michael is 35 years old. It is very sad to know that time flies for every one of us...

He is such a fantastic player and it is a pity, I always loved him, but instead of being his manager when he was 25 I am his manager when he is 35...

We have a good understanding. We know when he can play. We know when he is ready and when he needs a rest. So I am still having Michael Carrick and probably for one more season...

...The midfield is playing well. Pogba, Carrick and Herrera are playing very well.

Herrera was playing well before Carrick joined him in the three man midfield, but with Carrick in there it eases Herrera's holding responsibilities. For example, with the Herrera/Pogba midfield duo from earlier games, I'm not sure Ander would have had the freedom to burst forward to play that ball back to Mata for Saturday's goal. Never mind the ball he played in to Mata, it was Herrera who was frantic to get on the end of Valencia's throw and get an attack going and was able to do so with Pogba and see it through, all the while Carrick just hangs back in the holding role...

https://streamable.com/1xym

Of course, an extra player in CM will help, but Carrick does it so well and can also pick a clever, effective pass under pressure when needed. Not just any pass or 'clear the ball' attempt, but something which can turn a defense into an attack within seconds. I was initially hesitant about a three man midfield because I thought it would either bench Mata or render him ineffective on the wing in the process, but I'm happy with how Jose is using both Mata and Carrick at the moment.

sky88

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Mata has been involved in 145 goals since he got to England, for comparison Aguero has been involved in 196. Impressive numbers from the little Spaniard.

He's been great buy since joining.

Does anyone get the feeling Neville doesn't like him for some reason when he's on commentary or in the studio

Potential Underachiever

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Mata has been involved in 145 goals since he got to England, for comparison Aguero has been involved in 196. Impressive numbers from the little Spaniard.

Define involved please? Being on the pitch?

bangkok

stankratz wrote: »

I would like to see Carrick get one more season and it seems that Jose is thinking of going that way...



Herrera was playing well before Carrick joined him in the three man midfield, but with Carrick in there it eases Herrera's holding responsibilities. For example, with the Herrera/Pogba midfield duo from earlier games, I'm not sure Ander would have had the freedom to burst forward to play that ball back to Mata for Saturday's goal. Never mind the ball he played in to Mata, it was Herrera who was frantic to get on the end of Valencia's throw and get an attack going and was able to do so with Pogba and see it through, all the while Carrick just hangs back in the holding role...

https://streamable.com/1xym

Of course, an extra player in CM will help, but Carrick does it so well and can also pick a clever, effective pass under pressure when needed. Not just any pass or 'clear the ball' attempt, but something which can turn a defense into an attack within seconds. I was initially hesitant about a three man midfield because I thought it would either bench Mata or render him ineffective on the wing in the process, but I'm happy with how Jose is using both Mata and Carrick at the moment.

Herrera was playing well yes but the team didn't look right. Carrick pogba and Herrera make us so much better

jayo26

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Define involved please? Being on the pitch?

I thought it would of been assist or scored but that number seems very high.

bangkok

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Define involved please? Being on the pitch?

83 in the league, that's goals and assists.

Just checked there, yep that's all competitions, 145 total. That is class

Add in Valencia stats, 46 goals, 52 assists

Potential Underachiever

bangkok wrote: »

83 in the league, that's goals and assists.

Just checked there, yep that's all competitions, 145 total. That is class

Add in Valencia stats, 46 goals, 52 assists

You're going to have to break these stats down because they sound wrong, according to wiki (yes I know) he has 42 goals in England, so that means he must have 103 assists! Get the fck outta here!

Flint Fredstone

It's funny because I read on this very forum that Mata was past it at 26/27 when LvG wasn't playing him for a few games. That it was telling that 2 big name managers (LvG & Mourinho) don't rate him.

He went to Anfield a short while later and scored 2, one a glorious scissor kick. Oh how my little face lit up.

bangkok

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

You're going to have to break these stats down because they sound wrong, according to wiki (yes I know) he has 42 goals in England, so that means he must have 103 assists! Get the fck outta here!

63 goals in England 82 assists. World class

Jayop

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

You're going to have to break these stats down because they sound wrong, according to wiki (yes I know) he has 42 goals in England, so that means he must have 103 assists! Get the fck outta here!

42 is just league goals. All goals scored for United and Chelsea come to 63.

Games 254
Goals 63
Assists 82

---

So it's a goal or assist every 1.75 game.

Hococop

West brom doing what we should have done to Burnley

The_Kew_Tour

Mata was always class. Never doubted he would come good

jayo26

upload images free

Trigger

Those stats are ****in insane

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Those stats are ****in insane

Yep and to be fair couthino aint shabby either he always produces.