Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Leroy42

adox wrote: »

It's really not. It's been explained to you already why people are taking positives from it. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's mind boggling.

Of course it can. Just because some people are more interested in not losing to Pool rather than looking at the evidence in front of their eyes. Its mind boggling that a positive can be taken from that.

A draw was the absolute minimum anybody would have expected. At home, on form, all players fit. Everything was in our favour and we couldn't do it.

We dropped more points to each of Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs. The only thing that went right for us today was City, but that has nothing to do with us, anymore than if they now go unbeaten. We had the chance to pull Pool right back, but pile the pressure on Pool and City and we blew it.

None of the players stepped up.

PhlegmyMoses

emmetkenny wrote: »

Just on this we actually had more chances and more chances on target than United. Also got more corners than yourselves.

On the game I think it was better than the Anfield game, not hard to be fair, but at the end of the day a draw is a fair result. Neither team was better and if either lost they could have felt hard done by.

Yes Valencia was offside for the cross for the United goal but Rooney was on for his strike before that, even though it was saved, so that evened themselves out.

Two tackles which I thought should have been carded were Rooney on Milner (a little mistimed more than anything) and Pogbas WWE choke hold on Henderson.

I'm happy enough with the point considering we were missing quiet a few players, away at OT and United on their best run of the season while we are having a sticky patch.

Best of luck in the rest of the games chaps and I wouldn't be to disappointed if he pip City to fourth!!

More shots on target does not equal more chances. The best chances in the game were Pogba, Mkhitaryan and the Martial chance. Only similar chance Pool had was the Firmino attempt just after Coutinho came on.

Liam O

Jose changing tactics to bypass it and Liverpool's fantastic pressing should be the brunt of the tactical discussion.

Liverpool gave United no time on the ball and this clearly rattled Pogba and Carrick. Herrera did well in the first half but he too regressed under the pressure in the 2nd.

The introduction of Fellaini then allowed United another outlet to use the ball quickly and Liverpool had no answer to him.

Liverpool's pressing is really fantastic though and has been making the difference in these big games all season. Leicester showed last season that hard work can trump quality a lot last season. When the quality wasn't there for United today i felt there was a lot of lethargic displays which should have cost them more.

I really thought this was United's game to lose and they nearly managed it. Big game performance is down a lot from last season.

Ted111

You'd have to think spurs will beat city. In their state of mind and current form.
That will put us a point ahead of city.

That's one more rung up the ladder. Just four ahead of us then.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

How any Utd fan can take a positive out of that is mind bogging. Pool were poor, missing the core of their team, and on a poor run and we were at home and full of confidence.

How any United fan can be having a mini-meltdown after that match is lol-inducing.

RobertKK

emmetkenny wrote: »

It'd be chaos :pac: also we've a 100% win record against yous in Europe

But then Zlatan had a record of never scoring against Liverpool, these records are there to be broken, if only Rooney could have today...

TitianGerm

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

More shots on target does not equal more chances. The best chances in the game were Pogba, Mkhitaryan and the Martial chance. Only similar chance Pool had was the Firmino attempt just after Coutinho came on.

We also had more shots off target. That means we had more chances doesn't it?

Gigi had two very good chances in the second half for us, wasted the second one with a tame shot at De Gea.

Was the Miki and Martial chance not the same one? Where Miki was put through on the right and should have hit the shot but squared to Martial who tried a backheel flick? Maybe I'm mixing those up.

In fairness neither team had to many clear cut chances today compared to a normal day out for each.

TitianGerm

RobertKK wrote: »

But then Zlatan had a record of never scoring against Liverpool, these records are there to be broken, if only Rooney could have today...

He was so wasteful in possession and slowed you down a lot when he came on. I'm glad Rashford didn't come to run at us.

The record looks to be hanging over him at the minute.

Flint Fredstone

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Bait. Rise. Swallow. :-)

You fairly disappeared for a couple of months. Back when it looked like United would lose and you could continue your agenda again. Just highlighting...

adox

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course it can. Just because some people are more interested in not losing to Pool rather than looking at the evidence in front of their eyes. Its mind boggling that a positive can be taken from that.

A draw was the absolute minimum anybody would have expected. At home, on form, all players fit. Everything was in our favour and we couldn't do it.

We dropped more points to each of Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs. The only thing that went right for us today was City, but that has nothing to do with us, anymore than if they now go unbeaten. We had the chance to pull Pool right back, but pile the pressure on Pool and City and we blew it.

None of the players stepped up.

The bolded part is just in your head.

The rest of your post is just mostly stating the obvious and doesn't offer any counter argument to the reasons people gave as positives from the game.

xtal191

https://twitter.com/DuncanCastles/status/820695769380507649

Mr.Crinklewood

Polo_Mint wrote: »

27 years..........

What exactly is their ambition?

To get level with Blackburn and Leicester on Premier League titles.

😉

PhlegmyMoses

emmetkenny wrote: »

We also had more shots off target. That means we had more chances doesn't it?

Gigi had two very good chances in the second half for us, wasted the second one with a tame shot at De Gea.

Was the Miki and Martial chance not the same one? Where Miki was put through on the right and should have hit the shot but squared to Martial who tried a backheel flick? Maybe I'm mixing those up.

In fairness neither team had to many clear cut chances today compared to a normal day out for each.

No, Mkhi went clear through twice. Mig saved one and Martial couldn't get his toe on the cross for the season one.

Headshot

I really miss Shaw, him and Martial would of destroyed the rookie today. He's a big miss for me.

Unearthly

Headshot wrote: »

I really miss Shaw, him and Martial would of destroyed the rookie today. He's a big miss for me.

Yes Darmian is a huge weakness attacking.

S.M.B.

That young lad had a very good game in fairness.

Headshot

Unearthly wrote: »

Yes Darmian is a huge weakness attacking.

Yup exactly.

Darmian is a great squad player but Shaw is so good going forward.

S.M.B. wrote: »

That young lad had a very good game in fairness.

Utd made it easy on him, Darmian was barely any help to Martial hence Darmian getting subbed

54and56

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

You fairly disappeared for a couple of months. Back when it looked like United would lose and you could continue your agenda again. Just highlighting...

No agenda, just joining in with the dozens of others on here discussing the match in partizan fashion which seems to be permitted every gameday despite game discussion being in contravention of the superthrrad rules :-)

S.M.B.

Headshot wrote: »

Yup exactly.

Darmian is a great squad player but Shaw is so good going forward.



Utd made it easy on him, Darmian was barely any help to Martial hence Darmian getting subbed

He wasn't put under too much pressure but he looked pretty solid and certainly unphased by the situation.

The combination of Mkytaryan and Rooney didn't get much change out of him either.

GSPfan

If we can manage to finish the season in the top 4 i'll be very happy at this stage and then i've all the confidence in the world that Jose will know what we need in the Summer.

Id be happy to see both Mata and Rooney moved on in the Summer. I don't think they have a place in Jose's team and playing them out wide is a huge problem as neither have the speed to do real damage.

Mata still has a load to offer so id say we'd get good money for him but Rooney might be hard to shift on his wages.

Robson99

jamesbere wrote: »

Rb? Valencia has been one of the best player's in that position this season, also had a decent game today.

Liverpool targeted Carrick today, left him no time. Probably why Jose took him off

Léft back s a bigger problem that right back. Darmian done absolutely nothing today. Need Shaw back urgently
Game was crying out fir Rashford in the 2nd half and we get Rooney. Baffling

PhlegmyMoses

S.M.B. wrote: »

He wasn't put under too much pressure but he looked pretty solid and certainly unphased by the situation.

The combination of Mkytaryan and Rooney didn't get much change out of him either.

He was playing Mkhitaryan on for his first chance and Rooney for his shot that was saved well by Mignolet, and flagged offside erroneously. He could just as easily been the villain in the piece but for United players not taking their chances.

He was there to be got ato and Martial was sluggish, which was disappointing.

Flint Fredstone

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

No agenda, just joining in with the dozens of others on here discussing the match in partizan fashion which seems to be permitted every gameday despite game discussion being in contravention of the superthrrad rules :-)

I'm sure it would have bothered you just as much had United been winning.

caviardreams

GSPfan wrote: »

Id be happy to see both Mata and Rooney moved on in the Summer. I don't think they have a place in Jose's team and playing them out wide is a huge problem as neither have the speed to do real damage.

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think he gives us a different option and he'd be a massive lost if he left tbh.

PhlegmyMoses

GSPfan wrote: »

If we can manage to finish the season in the top 4 i'll be very happy at this stage and then i've all the confidence in the world that Jose will know what we need in the Summer.

Id be happy to see both Mata and Rooney moved on in the Summer. I don't think they have a place in Jose's team and playing them out wide is a huge problem as neither have the speed to do real damage.

Mata still has a load to offer so id say we'd get good money for him but Rooney might be hard to shift on his wages.

When Fellaini won that ball in their half and passed to Rooney in acres before he slowly ambled up the pitch and got crowded out, that was Rooney's decline in a microcosm. Imagine him coming onto that ball 5 years ago? Imagine Coutinho, Dele Alli, Hazard, Sanchez getting that pass and you get a picture of how you would have felt about Rooney in a similar position, but 5 years younger.

I'm happy with him as a squad player, but he won't make his way back into the team imo.

bucketybuck

I wanted a win today but I'll take the draw, to be honest I never saw this game as important as some people are making it out to be. Win, lose or draw it doesn't define our season and dropping points today doesn't negate the good work done in the previous 15 games. It was a poor performance but we still should have won, the important thing is that we continue to win games and top four will take care of itself.

Is there any point in revisiting the Carrick debate? He once again showed exactly why he is a problem for big games and demonstrated that no, it wasn't just one cup final that got him that reputation.

Another major problem that needs to be addressed is Valencia. No, he isn't a good full back, he is a ****ing problem because no top team is going anywhere when one of their most important attacking outlets has zero end product. For the amount of times our right full back gets the ball in advanced positions it is vital that he can has some basic level of delivery, but Valencia offers absolutely nothing and it is a complete waste.

GSPfan

caviardreams wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think he gives us a different option and he'd be a massive lost if he left tbh.

He is good and I know he does a lot for us but I think the only place he can realistically play is on the wing and I have a massive problem with him there as he slows everything down. He would also be replaced with someone new and possibly better at playing out wide so I don't think we'd lose much if he was replaced with similar quality.

MagicIRL

That's 2 points lost and I don't care what anyone says. Settling for a draw...**** sake lads.

Pogba didn't turn up. United played with 10 men essentially and that's really what cost us the game.

I'm sick at the thought of not capitalising on City losing and Liverpool being ****e. It was a brutal watch for the first 45mins.

Flint Fredstone

So Jones and Rojo...
I mentioned before the Spurs game that they would be shown up under pressure, they actually played pretty well that day.

Today was a different story, I think both of them are a liability against a team that's quick to close down. Jones in particular, he's just not a good footballer at all. Possibly the ditheriest ever player I've seen at United in receiving a pass and then dispatching it.

caviardreams

GSPfan wrote: »

He is good and I know he does a lot for us but I think the only place he can realistically play is on the wing and I have a massive problem with him there as he slows everything down. He would also be replaced with someone new and possibly better at playing out wide so I don't think we'd lose much if he was replaced with similar quality.

I do know what you mean and I'm maybe a little biased as he's my favourite too

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

Another major problem that needs to be addressed is Valencia. No, he isn't a good full back, he is a ****ing problem because no top team is going anywhere when one of their most important attacking outlets has zero end product. For the amount of times our right full back gets the ball in advanced positions it is vital that he can has some basic level of delivery, but Valencia offers absolutely nothing and it is a complete waste.

One of our best players this season and an assist again today.
The least of our problems

What exactly did Damian do today or any other game at full back

54and56

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I'm sure it would have bothered you just as much had United been winning.

Doesn't bother me at all, I'm glad there seems to be a general amnesty on here for those who want to discuss a match. It's the only reason I joined in.

I'll hang back now until the cup final :-)

Too Tough To Die

Did nobody have a word with Fergie before deciding to break the world transfer record on Pogba?

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Nice few ridiculous one game judgements here. Definitely don't take any more matches into account!

Flint Fredstone

Pogba has been instrumental in hauling us back into contention for a decent finishing place. He is still young and I think the occasion and pressure to perform does get to him a bit.

There's no midfielder in the league I would swap him for.

RobertKK

It is an utter disaster, we bought Pogba for a world record fee, and now after this game, he is the worse signing ever, according to United critics...

I love that we have Pogba, he didn't have a good day, but good players learn from days like today.

Lord TSC

jamesbere wrote: »

Rb? Valencia has been one of the best player's in that position this season, also had a decent game today.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Another major problem that needs to be addressed is Valencia. No, he isn't a good full back, he is a ****ing problem because no top team is going anywhere when one of their most important attacking outlets has zero end product. For the amount of times our right full back gets the ball in advanced positions it is vital that he can has some basic level of delivery, but Valencia offers absolutely nothing and it is a complete waste.

Robson99 wrote: »

One of our best players this season and an assist again today.
The least of our problems

Gotta agree with Buck here; Valencia works very hard, which is great, but it masks a lack of skill. I think that was only his second or third assist this season. He pumps balls into the box but rarely in an effective manner. He's a decent defender but can leave big gaps. The reality is he wouldn't be massively hard to upgrade.

Trigger

Semedo and Bakayoko in this window please Jose

Flint Fredstone

Lord TSC wrote: »

Gotta agree with Buck here; Valencia works very hard, which is great, but it masks a lack of skill. I think that was only his second or third assist this season. He pumps balls into the box but rarely in an effective manner. He's a decent defender but can leave big gaps. The reality is he wouldn't be massively hard to upgrade.

It's crazy when you think how good a winger he has been for us in the past.
His defending is much better than his attacking... he's a fecking winger by trade.

beno619

emmetkenny wrote: »

He was so wasteful in possession and slowed you down a lot when he came on. I'm glad Rashford didn't come to run at us.

The record looks to be hanging over him at the minute.

Na he was just crap today.

The record "hanging over him" is an easy narrative to write but his performances lately have been decent - good.

beno619

Robson99 wrote: »

Léft back s a bigger problem that right back. Darmian done absolutely nothing today. Need Shaw back urgently
Game was crying out fir Rashford in the 2nd half and we get Rooney. Baffling

I thought Darmian had a great game tbh.

Alf Veedersane

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

There's no midfielder in the league I would swap him for.

I'd have Kanté instead.

I'd rather have both though. I think he needs a boss with him. He had Pirlo at Juve and he looked the outstanding player he is. Getting a foil for him is important if United are going to see the Pogba thats worth the money.

Flint Fredstone

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'd have Kanté instead.

I'd rather have both though. I think he needs a boss with him. He had Pirlo at Juve and he looked the outstanding player he is. Getting a foil for him is important if United are going to see the Pogba thats worth the money.

Meh, I think Kanté has been only decent for Chelsea. Doesn't look as good as he did last season.

I take your point about a dominant force in midfield to compliment Pogba, that's up to the manager to sort out.

beno619

Pogba was the worst player on the pitch for both games vs Pool now.

Hopefully he's learned a bit from today, ie admitting when he's outmatched and dallying against opposition that love to press.

He has been very good since our unbeaten run began so i'm inclined to give him a pass today.

One thing that's surprised me is how poor he is 1 vs 1 against keepers, hes missed a few sitters now and if you include all the drives that have cannoned off the post he should be in double figures this season.

GSPfan

I think we will eventually see a proper central midfielder bought with Herrera and the new signing making up the 2 in a 4231. I think Pogba will end up behind the striker, be it Zlatan now or Griezmann in the future.

Alf Veedersane

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Meh, I think Kanté has been only decent for Chelsea. Doesn't look as good as he did last season.

I take your point about a dominant force in midfield to compliment Pogba, that's up to the manager to sort out.

He's been an engine for Chelsea. He was always going to shine at Leicester more than any big club.

Having a force in midfield was what I hoped would happen when he was signed. Even if he wasn't signed, there was that gap there. Someone with a bit of steel - physically and mentally.

J. Marston

Form against big teams is pretty woeful...

https://twitter.com/red_cafe/status/820704011561078786?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

The term "flat track bully" springs to mind.

Mantis Toboggan

We can spend as much as we like and keep signing more players but if we cannot match our opponents for work rate and intensity then we're going nowhere.

Liverpool are a much inferior team to us yet they were the better team simply through work rate. We knew this going out but we clearly weren't ready for it. In these games you have to win the physical battle first before the flowing football starts, we simply thought it would be flowing football from the start.

These are the games where Fergie would have went with Park Ji sung and Fletcher in the middle.

bucketybuck

Robson99 wrote: »

One of our best players this season and an assist again today.
The least of our problems

What exactly did Damian do today or any other game at full back

What Darmian does or doesn't do is totally irrelevant to any discussion of Valencia.

If anybody thinks Valencia is a good full back then they are missing a trick, and I would say that the next time they watch a game just count how many times United work the ball into a position on the right and in the last third where the ball ends up with the full back for a final delivery into the box.

More than any other player on the field it is Valencia who finds himself in positions where a good delivery could mean a goal, others are more creative but he is the one getting the ball at that crucial time. And he has zero end product.

How anybody thinks that isn't a rather serious problem is beyond me.

TheDoc

Ranked 16th in the league for shot conversion

Ranked rock bottom in 20th for big chance conversion(measurement OPTA do for chances you should score)

That is absolutely dreadful. Dreadful.....

It's a very simple reason for our predicament. Taking too many chances to score. And unfortunately it's all too late half way through the season. Could have been oh so different if this team wasn't so wasteful.

Maybe a hopeful sign for next season with a settled Mhiki and Pogba and we know what the story is with Martial and our left wing.

But our finishing is really pathetic