Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Potential Underachiever

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

And more evidence to suggest he doesn't!! if he was a luxury player he would have been surplus to requirements so sold. He would also need a rest sometimes. Short answer - no I do not think Mourinho sees him as a "luxury" player.

Short reply, I disagree, I believe Jose does see him as a luxury player, last I'll say on the matter, I don't want further accusations of 'spamming' the thread, have a good one.

sReq | uTeK

stankratz wrote: »

Anyone got a link to what Jose actually said about Mkhitaryan that was so bad? All I can find in terms of actual quotes is below. These were taken from a Telegraph article where immediately the spin begins with the headline 'Henrikh Mkhitaryan cannot take the pressure, reveals Jose Mourinho'



Jose speaks the truth. At this stage, and as far back as vs Burnley, Mkhitaryan needed notable minutes, not just 10 minute cameos. For whatever reason, reportedly training and fitness levels, it hasn't happened for him yet. However, Arsenal was not the game to bring him back into the fold in any capacity. Especially not with a succession of mid-week games coming up where Mkhitaryan could be given a game with far less pressure should he deserve a game.

Thankfully, when you read what Jose actually said rather than just the headlines and the spin, it sounds quite promising for Mkhitaryan and that he is deserving of game-time.

The only other actual quote which the Telegraph used in their article was one from Mkhitaryan and it was also positive..."It is true that I get little time on the field, but I am not going to give in. I went a long way to play in Manchester United, so nothing will prevent me from achieving my dream."

In the only instance that the article draws back to his time at Dortmund, it's to point out that he apparently went missing in big games, not mentioning the fact that he had a slow start at Dortmund like at United, which might be more relevant to their article. However, that wouldn't have suited their narrative.

Not that there's nothing to see here, Mkhitaryan's invisibility cloak is bound to attract questions from fans and media alike, but Jose's comments are both truthful and positive no matter what way the papers try to spin them.

Shush you're completely nullifiing The doc's conspiracy theories

Cookie_Dough

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Short reply, I disagree, I believe Jose does see him as a luxury player, last I'll say on the matter, I don't want further accusations of 'spamming' the thread, have a good one.

I didn't accuse you of spamming the thread that was another poster. I merely replies to you in a constructive and polite manner. Fair enough though you disagree good luck now

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

This is now how I picture Bangkok.

Computer says no

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Like I said, me and you sit opposite ends of the spectrum with him.

And the greatest manager in English football history thankfully sits beside me..

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

And the greatest manager in English football history thankfully sits beside me..

Was this at the same game as Juan matas dad??

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Was this at the same game as Juan matas dad??

No Phil Jones missus..... Stunner

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

No Phil Jones missus..... Stunner

Phil is a stunner himself
img upload

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Phil is a stunner himself
img upload

Legend jonesy, done well since he came back.... Be whipping in corners next

Leroy42

stankratz wrote: »

Jose speaks the truth. At this stage, and as far back as vs Burnley, Mkhitaryan needed notable minutes, not just 10 minute cameos. For whatever reason, reportedly training and fitness levels, it hasn't happened for him yet. However, Arsenal was not the game to bring him back into the fold in any capacity. Especially not with a succession of mid-week games coming up where Mkhitaryan could be given a game with far less pressure should he deserve a game.

Thankfully, when you read what Jose actually said rather than just the headlines and the spin, it sounds quite promising for Mkhitaryan and that he is deserving of game-time.

The only other actual quote which the Telegraph used in their article was one from Mkhitaryan and it was also positive..."It is true that I get little time on the field, but I am not going to give in. I went a long way to play in Manchester United, so nothing will prevent me from achieving my dream."

In the only instance that the article draws back to his time at Dortmund, it's to point out that he apparently went missing in big games, not mentioning the fact that he had a slow start at Dortmund like at United, which might be more relevant to their article. However, that wouldn't have suited their narrative.

Not that there's nothing to see here, Mkhitaryan's invisibility cloak is bound to attract questions from fans and media alike, but Jose's comments are both truthful and positive no matter what way the papers try to spin them.

Wow, I know that football supporters are deluded in terms of their own teams, but how anybody can think anything positive out of that is amazing.

A 26m player has basically been told by his manager that he can't handle a big game and needs a few easy games to learn how to play football for a big club. And this after 5 months of being in the squad.

And not going to put him on the bench as having to come on during a game with be a be tough so better to stay at home and maybe play FIFA so you can play at being a footballer.

Liam McPoyle

Leroy42 wrote: »

Wow, I know that football supporters are deluded in terms of their own teams, but how anybody can think anything positive out of that is amazing.

A 26m player has basically been told by his manager that he can't handle a big game and needs a few easy games to learn how to play football for a big club. And this after 5 months of being in the squad.

And not going to put him on the bench as having to come on during a game with be a be tough so better to stay at home and maybe play FIFA so you can play at being a footballer.

With all due respect, you know absolutely nothing about how Mikhi is progressing in training or behind closed doors.

I cannot believe how people will use things, things that are nothing more than 100% supposition, as a stick to beat Jose with.

I'd expect it from our Enoch Old Pussycats but a little bit of faith from our own fans isn't too much to ask.

Leroy42

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

With all due respect, you know absolutely nothing about how Mikhi is progressing in training or behind closed doors.

I cannot believe how people will use things, things that are nothing more than 100% supposition, as a stick to beat Jose with.

I'd expect it from our Enoch Old Pussycats but a little bit of faith from our own fans isn't too much to ask.

You are right, I know nothing about either Jose or Mikhy, apart from what they themselves say.

I'm not dealing with supposition, I am dealing with facts. Jose said those things, clearly calling into question Mikhi's mental ability to handle the pressure. That coupled with the fact that Jose hasn't used him at all apart from brief cameos is evidence enough that Jose, currently, doesn't think he has enough to add anything to the squad.

A squad that is clearly struggling with creativity, and should have that asset after spending 26m on it but instead can't even trust him from the bench.

Its got nothing to do with faith, and nothing to do with Jose. Its got everything to do with the facts staring us in the face.

jayo26

At Chelsea jose treated two players similar to what he is doing with Miki now his first time round was Joe Cole he gradually eased him into Chelsea team over the course of the year and his next two seasons he was close to been their player of the year. Second time round it was Willian and he played pretty well for him too he was probably one of the best players for them last year when everyone else downed tools.

I have not much worry about how jose is handling things after today he is saying how it is yeh Miki is more experienced the the last two examples but he else took a year to settle in dortmund and he has put his head down and seemingly wants to fight.

bucketybuck

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its got nothing to do with faith, and nothing to do with Jose. Its got everything to do with the facts staring us in the face.

And nothing to do with the player of course.

Liam McPoyle

Leroy42 wrote: »

You are right, I know nothing about either Jose or Mikhy, apart from what they themselves say.

I'm not dealing with supposition, I am dealing with facts. Jose said those things, clearly calling into question Mikhi's mental ability to handle the pressure. That coupled with the fact that Jose hasn't used him at all apart from brief cameos is evidence enough that Jose, currently, doesn't think he has enough to add anything to the squad.

A squad that is clearly struggling with creativity, and should have that asset after spending 26m on it but instead can't even trust him from the bench.

Its got nothing to do with faith, and nothing to do with Jose. Its got everything to do with the facts staring us in the face.

If Jose said he didn't think Mikhi was ready then why would we doubt that?

Does it not make more logical sense that Jose is being 100% upfront?

I'm struggling to come up with a reason that he hasn't been featuring if it isn't a case that Jose doesnt think he has been ready, be it mentally, physically or otherwise.

Like I said, we don't know how Mikhi has been progressing since joining, squad integration, he has also been hampered by injury.

Personally I think its a case of Occam's Razor but I guess time will tell.

He was the one player that I coveted after watching him last season and I was ecstatic when he signed.

I still think he will come good.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Wow, I know that football supporters are deluded in terms of their own teams, but how anybody can think anything positive out of that is amazing.

A 26m player has basically been told by his manager that he can't handle a big game and needs a few easy games to learn how to play football for a big club. And this after 5 months of being in the squad.

And not going to put him on the bench as having to come on during a game with be a be tough so better to stay at home and maybe play FIFA so you can play at being a footballer.

stankratz wrote: »

Not that there's nothing to see here, Mkhitaryan's invisibility cloak is bound to attract questions from fans and media alike, but Jose's comments are both truthful and positive no matter what way the papers try to spin them.

Did you miss this part by accident, or intentionally because it didn't suit your own post? Of course Mkhitaryan's time at United so far, no matter the transfer fee, has been vastly disappointing and there are questions to be asked. The reason there are questions to be asked is because none of us know anything apart from the comments of those directly involved, all two of these people.

These latest comments of Jose's make sense at this moment, not as an explanation of Mkhitaryan's overall absense so far this season and I never said, alluded to, or opined that Mkhitaryan's situation overall has been a positive one, just that finally it could be promising.

As for the rest of your post, it clearly shows that Jose's comments went over your head. Where did he say that Mkhitaryan can't handle a big game? Jose's not talking about a fully fit player here who has had a string of recent appearances and has been working up to a start against Arsenal. He's talking about someone who has not really played this season at all. As with any player who has been out, be it for injury reasons or those less clear like in this situation, there is a time and a place to introduce the player back into the game. Against Arsenal wasn't that time for Mkhitaryan.

If Jose had have played him against Arsenal after months of no football, that would have been more bizarre than anything, and a massive risk for the player's confidence and the team's performance. What was there to gain from throwing him in against Arsenal when points were needed on the board and room for experimentation was non-existent? If Mkhitaryan performed anything like he did after getting thrown in at the deep end vs City, it would have set him even further back in his United career. There's games coming up where there will be less pressure. What that means rather than "Mk can't handle big games" is that the likes of the Europa and the Cup games afford him the opportunity to make those mistakes and shake off that rust which any returning player will have.

Again, Jose's latest comments are promising for Mkhitaryan finally getting a chance to work his way into the team and kickstart his United career. You're looking for the guy who said everything has been grand so far and the Jose/Mk situation is just normal. That's some other deluded fan, not me.

Robson99

TheDoc wrote: »

Problem now is that you won't fit both Henrik and Mata into a 4-3-3,

Why not ???
Middle 3 of Herrera, Pogba and Henrik.
Front 3 of Mata Ibrahim and Rashford

RobbingBandit

Was wondering if there is a language barrier for Mkhitaryan. Can he speak English?

jayo26

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Was wondering if there is a language barrier for Mkhitaryan. Can he speak English?

Fluent I thought??

RobbingBandit

Not that so, is a very strange occurrence to exclude such a proven player.

Lucas Hood

He's fluent in 6 different languages , German, Armenian, Russian, English, French and Portuguese.

Notorious

jayo26 wrote: »

Fluent I thought??

He's a polyglot. Fluent in six languages, including English.

Delighted he's making an appearance on Thursday. Really hope it goes well for him.

Hilarious reading comments from United fans who lap up the media spin about Jose's comments. Jose basically says, "Mkhitaryan plays on Thurs". Most are delighted, yet some deluded fans still see it as a put down.

Edit: In other news, Kagawa scored 2 in as many minutes for Dortmund tonight.

mewe

Notorious wrote: »

He's a polyglot.

Ah that's why he won't play him! I heard Mourinho has a thing against polyglots.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Can finally wear my Mkhitaryan United shirt

Panthro

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Can finally wear my Mkhitaryan United shirt

Bet that's what Mkhitaryan's thinking!

brinty

Woo-hoo
Micky Ryan plays Thursday
Good man Micky Taragaryan

The_Kew_Tour

Glad its the 8.05 ko too. Get to watch it.

jimmytwotimes 2013

https://twitter.com/utdreport/status/801342183022399488

the aul shirt might get another day out

Adamcp898

The MEN loves a good house buying story, I just wish they'd fill the pieces with more of the regular property buying phrases like "it's now believed he's trying to get his foot on the ladder" etc.

Kerrydude1981

Adamcp898 wrote: »

The MEN loves a good house buying story, I just wish they'd fill the pieces with more of the regular property buying phrases like "it's now believed he's trying to get his foot on the ladder" etc.

Sarah Beeney will have to give a call to him,get him to feature on footballers property ladder special

Jose will be in the second episode

TheDoc

crkball6 wrote: »

Why did the player who was shouting at him to close it down know what he was suppose to do, yet miki didn't know what he was suppose to do?

Again, are you suggesting that a professional footballer worth x million is not capable of taking instructions? Or are you choose to believe it's Jose's fault for not giving clear instruction when you have no idea what he was actually told to do ?

I'm suggesting that a professional football settling into a new team,environment and setup is totally open to mistakes, confusion and conflict.

And the overarching point being his cast into the void based on that 45 minute performance is genuinely baffling from the manager, renowned for his man management.

Everytime it's pointed out to you x person got x chance you always complain about the amount of minutes or the situation.

What difference does it make? if you get 20 minutes. Do a bloody good job in those 20 minutes. If you do SFA and almost cause another goal, what do you think should happen in the next game? he gets 45? 90?

Not sure how to deal with you here. Sorry but that just totally disregards all knowledge and insight into match sharpness, players familiarity with team mates and formations and if I'm honest just is a blatantly total disregard or lack of experience with how football, or any team based game, works.

You seem to be under this impression that people "deserve" chances. no one at this level been paid this amount of money deserves anything. You earn it, every day in training and in every minute you get offered on the pitch and you push your way into the side. As far as I've seen so far he deserves nothing.

One would argue his performances last season for Dortmund, which earned him the move, has earned him the right to be afforded opportunities to establish him in this team.

We don't know if that's the case, how come lingard got back in after pretty much the same performance if not worse. Maybe Jose has a thing for dabbing?

As mentioned by most people, your right, we don't know. And that is the problem. We have a quality player sidelined and all we are being fed is to be honest nonsense from the manager, and rumour mill stories. I don't believe for one second that the player is not up to the challenge of the club or the league or the expectations.

It's not that it's nonsense it just doesn't need to be brought into every discussion regarding Jose's man management. He's masterfully managed a lot more players ans flair players than he has cast out.

If you're not cutting the mustard or not fitting into the plans of a manager it shouldn't matter flair player or not. You either do what your ask and perform or your out this should be the same for any manager and it is. People just like to harp on about it with Jose.

That is much more sensible middleground then the typical extremes relating to Mourinho. He DOES have a poor track record with a certain type of player, and I'll happily conceed to you, that it should be a case by case basis, if the player is capable or not.

I'd still put forward the point Mourinho's arrival, I know I highlighted, and it seemed to be a general "what if" relating to our wide players, and especially younger ones.

What indications? The only things to come out was there wasn't enough intensity in his training. So if someone else said something different, who was it and why does their opinion hold more weight than Jose's?

Again we haven't a fcking clue what's going on in training.

I wasn't aware the manager was public about his intensity in training. I just know from the player being discussed in public by former colleagues, managers, coaches or hearing him spoken about on podcasts or read about in articles, this appears to be a consummate professional who is an extremely hard worker. So I would be surprised his training ethic was called into question.

But as you say, who knows. Would I be surprised if his intensity did drop considering he is not getting a chance? Probably not. Needs to be a bit of carrot at the end of the stick I'd have thought.

I'll go back to my point and we covered this with depay. you seem to have this notion that a "chance" is X amount of minutes in X amount of games to be given a chance. To me a chance is any minute you're on the pitch is a chance and again you need to earn these chances and he has the chance to do that every single day in training.

I don't know what he's doing in training more than you do, but what I do know is he's not taking the few chances he's had and his manager doesn't feel he's training hard enough. That's enough for me

Again cool, we don't know training. And Memphis has a LONG WAY to go to have any chance in this team. But I'd have maybe thought with Martial in dire form, and Memphis having worked his way back into the Holland team, and scoring twice in a good 45 minute spell for his national team, would have maybe put him ahead of Martial in the pecking order.

Of course Arsenal, bit game, might not have been right for Memphis. But Martial has been utterly dreadful this season. He no longer "deserves" as you would say, his place in the team, and you would imagine others should be given meaningful opportunities to impress.

You're basing this mostly of what he "might" be doing for most of your problems you haven't a clue why he does anything because you don't see the vast majority of what's going on.

your right, we should just discuss matchdays and the scorelines.......

There is enough coverage and around the clock football discussion that we can talk about things outside of matchday. And someone as high profile as Mourinho, who has operated in England plenty, tends to operate in the same sort of fashion most of the time. So it's not a big stretch to make some assumptions, but know your likely in the ballpark.

And as I've mentioned before, I'm off the opinion that managers and players are culpable to the fanbase. And the manager especially has a responsibility to explain issues truthfully and honestly to the fans. That is why press conferences started by the way. That is why there was a need for local journalists to attend and as the game grew, national and then international press attending.

That football takes itself way too serious and managers feel the need to drip feed their fans and treat them like bricks with teeth, and think what they are doing in training is some masterplan,is a general sad state of affairs. One of the reasons I endeared to Van Gaal, he kinda railed against that in a lot of cases.

Jesus in most countries and leagues, you can go watch your team train. Then there would be nothing left to speculation or interpretation

Lucas Hood

Poor Paddy Mcnair done his acl in.

Lucas Hood

Jose just announced the club will take up the option of another year contract for Zlatan.

Lord TSC

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/801421220302516224

Jose confirms #MUFC will take up the option to extend @Ibra_official's contract for a second season, running until the end of 2017/18.

Potential Underachiever

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Jose just announced the club will take up the option of another year contract for Zlatan.

Marcus Rashford does not like this.

brinty

Jose just announced we'll not be bidding for Messi...

well b*****x b***p b***p

Jose Mourinho has rubbished the chances of bidding for Argentina and Barcelona forward Lionel Messi, saying the five-time Ballon D'Or winner "belongs to Barcelona".

"Lionel Messi is every season the same story, every season he is going to leave and he never does," he said.

"I hope he never leaves. He belongs to Barcelona, the beautiful thing for him would be to start and finish at Barca."

Lucas Hood

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Marcus Rashford does not like this.

He'll have to do his talking with his feet so. Didn't do much with his chance on the weekend.

jayo26

Zlatan shines 24 hours a day.

brinty

Lucas Hood wrote: »

He'll have to do his talking with his feet so. Didn't do much with his chance on the weekend.

FFS this is an 18/19 year old kid.
Have a chat with yourself.
You could say the same about the 10 other players plus subs who came in not doing their talking with their feet last saturday

Thats some pretty high standards you've got and you're letting yourself in for a world of pain if you don't lower them a little if not a lot

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

Jose confirms #MUFC will take up the option to extend @Ibra_official's contract for a second season, running until the end of 2017/18.

ZerksTSC

brinty

jayo26 wrote: »

Zlatan shines 24 hours a day.

the sun always shines on TV Zlatan

Cookie_Dough

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Marcus Rashford does not like this.

Yeah Zlatan staying another year will really stunt the development of that 19 year old kid ::rolleyes: Rashford can only learn from Zlatan, Rashford hasn't even reached his peak and is only starting his career.

Trigger

Lord TSC wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtd/status/801421220302516224

Jose confirms #MUFC will take up the option to extend @Ibra_official's contract for a second season, running until the end of 2017/18.

gosplan

Utd need to spend big on a new striker.

Be very surprised if either Zlatan or Rashford are good enough next season.

Obv it's not a matter of just finding a WC striker in their prime but you'd hope that extending Zlatan isn't the only plan.

As regards Martial - I always thought he'd go backwards under Jose. He's neither the type of wide player or striker he goes for.

I'm not knocking either Jose or Martial, just think they're a bad fit.

bucketybuck

gosplan wrote: »

I'm not knocking either Jose or Martial, just think they're a bad fit.

Its nothing to do with Jose. Some people seem to think Martial was great last year but in actual fact he started well but had a pretty poor second half of the season. There were flashes and goals here and there, but in general his form really tailed off, he just had goodwill built up that allowed him to escape much criticism. And thats not hindsight, I posted as much on here previously.

Martial has been poor for quite a while now stretching back to before Mourinho's arrival, just look at his play in the Euros for further evidence of that. Its not the managers fault, he needs to sort himself out.

sky88

Never thought id say this but i wouldn't be crazy on keeping Zlatan another year. i feel his best days are gone and i haven't been too confident in his all round performances so far this season goal scoring aside.

lets hope he shuts me up and scores a hat trick at the weekend

jayo26

sky88 wrote: »

Never thought id say this but i wouldn't be crazy on keeping Zlatan another year. i feel his best days are gone and i haven't been too confident in his all round performances so far this season goal scoring aside.

lets hope he shuts me up and scores a hat trick at the weekend

His link up play and chance creation has been pretty top lass and 8 goals before December aint too shabby either.

His best days are behind him but they were some high quality best days he can still be one of the top scorers in league this year and prob next year if he doesn't deteriorate.

Minderbinder

Cookie_Dough wrote: »

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Marcus Rashford does not like this.

Yeah Zlatan staying another year will really stunt the development of that 19 year old kid ::rolleyes: Rashford can only learn from Zlatan, Rashford hasn't even reached his peak and is only starting his career.

You're talking rubbish. There's no point learning from a striker if you're being played in a different position every week. Fair enough if Rashford is coming off the bench to replace Zlatan but every game he plays as a wide man, he will regress in terms of being a striker and is less likely to fulfill his potential. I think misusing him has already had a negative impact on his confidence and will continue to do so. Would we be worse off with Rashford playing as striker if we didn't sign Zlatan - I doubt it to be honest. I think Rashford linked up brilliantly last year with Mata and Lingard and Zlatan has been hugely disappointing in that department.

If Zlatan is more of a coach next year rather than a guaranteed starter then his staying around might be beneficial. But Mourinho has already proven he doesn't have the balls to even substitute Zlatan, let alone drop him.

Potential Underachiever

Minderbinder wrote: »

You're talking rubbish. There's no point learning from a striker if you're being played in a different position every week. Fair enough if Rashford is coming off the bench to replace Zlatan but every game he plays as a wide man, he will regress in terms of being a striker and is less likely to fulfill his potential. I think misusing him has already had a negative impact on his confidence and will continue to do so. Would we be worse off with Rashford playing as striker if we didn't sign Zlatan - I doubt it to be honest. I think Rashford linked up brilliantly last year with Mata and Lingard and Zlatan has been hugely disappointing in that department.

If Zlatan is more of a coach next year rather than a guaranteed starter then his staying around might be beneficial. But Mourinho has already proven he doesn't have the balls to even substitute Zlatan, let alone drop him.

Nicely put, I wasn't going to reply as I seem to just get sarky replies but I would've been happy to have nailed it like you just did. Especially the point of being shunted around positions will not help Rashford, it's just short termism at its best this Zlatan business unless they have somebody else lined up and if they do then Rashford will be no happier.

Minderbinder

Minderbinder wrote: »

You're talking rubbish. There's no point learning from a striker if you're being played in a different position every week. Fair enough if Rashford is coming off the bench to replace Zlatan but every game he plays as a wide man, he will regress in terms of being a striker and is less likely to fulfill his potential. I think misusing him has already had a negative impact on his confidence and will continue to do so. Would we be worse off with Rashford playing as striker if we didn't sign Zlatan - I doubt it to be honest. I think Rashford linked up brilliantly last year with Mata and Lingard and Zlatan has been hugely disappointing in that department.

If Zlatan is more of a coach next year rather than a guaranteed starter then his staying around might be beneficial. But Mourinho has already proven he doesn't have the balls to even substitute Zlatan, let alone drop him.

Wrong & Wrong