Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

RobertKK

James Ducker says it was mostly Man united and not Pogba who were behind the whole twitter emoji fiasco.
That it was United who were really pushing it.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

TheDoc is pretty much on the ball.

Im no good with ages etc but is there many very good 23 CM in the world ?

There are many very good 23 year olds or even younger. But are they consistent across a season? Do they dominate a big game? No, they don't.

When you draw up a top 3 or a top 5 best CM's in the world, are any 23 year olds in there? Somewhat subjective to your opinion, but there is the general point of bar exceptions, of what makes up the best of the best.

sReq | uTeK

newballsplease wrote: »

Pogba is getting a roasting due to this BS twitter emoji thing that was advertised constantly during the game. His worst game probably for Utd.
Ferguson would never have allowed something like that to go on.

Sadly football is as much a marketing and revenue stream as a sport these days, all this feedback is more limelight for united which is the boards ultimate goal. Maximizing revenue

TheDoc

bangkok wrote: »

suppose its hard to judge, he is def up there with the best of them. Toni Kroos is class at what he does, i would say pogba is a completely different type of midfielder though. kroos will pass, pass, pass all day long, Pogba has the ability to pass but to also run past players with the ball at pace and can score from long range. he can bully opponents with his power. he covers the ground around the field effortlessly. just scary to think he is only 23. how good will he be in 2 or 3 years time

Perfect. Actually perfect.

Put that paragraph, or one like that, when you make those big claims, and no one is going to have problems with it.

Granted a) I guess maybe people don't have problems and b) I'm not trying to be a pain in the hole looking at your posting style

But I find you so less "bangkok" when you post like that, within the same post of claims you have, so there is context and I see your thinking. And if we disagree we disagree.

And your right, the "best X" is so subjective, now that players are more silo'd in the stuff they are good at and stuff they do etc. As you say Kroos is so different to Pogba, who is different to a Kante, who is different to a Modric.

It annoys me how football has gone a ways to sideline and "coach away" the old fashioned box to box all rounder, which I think has a place in the game. But maybe the physical exertions and demands make it not feasible anymore to have a midfield monster storming up and down the pitch in the modern game.

Nalz

I didn't see the game yesterday but I'm watching motd now. The highlights show 6 great chances for us in the first half and just a pen to pool.

Second half is just starting and united opened them up again.

It's mad how fans read the game or how highlights tell a different story.

Haven't seen those chances we missed in first half I'm gutted we didn't win.

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Fellaini was immense yesterday. His best contribution was his tackle with couple minutes remaining which saved a very clear chance.

There would be an era where he could easily be defined as a top, elite player. And I genuinely mean that. Unfortunately he has come at a time in football where the game is softer (So many of the frees he concedes are "modern" fouls, I still cant fully get with that) but his chest control and aerial control are INCREDIBLE

Whatever about his chest control, which is fantastic. An art in itself and a really impressive thing that he does.

The way in which he guides headers under pressure is brilliant. Like when you consider Ibrahimovic yesterday was competing for headers but they weren't really productive, Fellaini comes on and his headers were going to people, perfectly.

On the whole he is so evidently not good enough to be a player for Manchester United, but at the same time, he brings something so different and unorthodox maybe he IS good enough for our level.

I think the role he is doing now,(while I do believe he is a credible DM, just maybe not for us) is where he will do best for us.

Seriously though how he guides and directs his cushioned headers when under pressure. That is just so impressive.

Does it convince me he's good enough or ever was, likely no. But that doesn't mean I cannot appreciate and applaud a dieing skill in the game and that I won't be chuffed when I see him do good things.

Whatever about his quality, I've never felt the need to question his enthusiasm and dedication to winning for the club. If others shows the "pashun" he has shown when playing, under the height of adversity, maybe the club wouldn't have slipped so fast so soon.

TheDoc

newballsplease wrote: »

Pogba is getting a roasting due to this BS twitter emoji thing that was advertised constantly during the game. His worst game probably for Utd.
Ferguson would never have allowed something like that to go on.

Seeing this a lot today.

Ferguson never had to worry or hang on the clubs finances to make him competitive. And even in instances where he did, he just rolled out excuses keeping the place from imploding.

If the club are serious about really becoming a European superpower, then these are the unfortunate things that need to happen here and there.

I don't like it, I wasn't happy on a personal level with that stuff during the week, the hype about the Addidas boots and the hype about his hair. Football writes its own narratives, you could have made a good assumption Pogba would have played ****e.

I don't know in the grand scheme of things if I'm willing to totally accept that stuff knowing where the positives come back, but there is likely a part of everyone over a certain age where it must grate and be a nuisance.

I wouldn't stretch as far to say as Pogba's poor performance was directly linked, but as Ducker indicates, it hardly helps in the aftermath.

TheDoc

Nalz wrote: »

I didn't see the game yesterday but I'm watching motd now. The highlights show 6 great chances for us in the first half and just a pen to pool.

Second half is just starting and united opened them up again.

It's mad how fans read the game or how highlights tell a different story.

Haven't seen those chances we missed in first half I'm gutted we didn't win.

Case in point

I personally don't think we were as deserving of the win, or "blew it" as many make out.

The Pogba chance was piss poor from him, the Mhiki one, Milner got the block and its a tough chance. Zlatans free kick sure. Struggling to think of other ones.

Liverpool however had two chances second half that just fell to the wrong player who whiffed it. I thought they had the much better chances in the game, especially considering it was second half, and I'd say a few Pool fans are fuming they didn't finish us off

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

Case in point

I personally don't think we were as deserving of the win, or "blew it" as many make out.

The Pogba chance was piss poor from him, the Mhiki one, Milner got the block and its a tough chance. Zlatans free kick sure. Struggling to think of other ones.

Liverpool however had two chances second half that just fell to the wrong player who whiffed it. I thought they had the much better chances in the game, especially considering it was second half, and I'd say a few Pool fans are fuming they didn't finish us off

Yep those four plus Zlatan far post (should have ran quicker to back post to meet a good cross from Martial) and the half chance when charged the keeper down.

So 5.5 chances really!

Cantona's Collars

bucketybuck wrote: »

Pogba is getting all the grief but any thoughts on Martial yesterday?

Another whole load of nothing once again in my opinion, made worse by the fact he was up against a rookie full back and we needed so much more from him.

At times Liverpool put 3 men on him,had he used his head and passed the ball at times rather than trying to take them on we could have outnumbered their defence.Pogba did the same.

StringerBell

Nalz wrote: »

Yep those four plus Zlatan far post (should have ran quicker to back post to meet a good cross from Martial) and the half chance when charged the keeper down.

So 5.5 chances really!

Ah now!

Jayop

Nalz wrote: »

Yep those four plus Zlatan far post (should have ran quicker to back post to meet a good cross from Martial) and the half chance when charged the keeper down.

So 5.5 chances really!

Fellaini hitting the post. Does that not count because we scored soon after?

Edit: and Rooney hit a cracking Volley that took a very good save.

Jayop

zerks wrote: »

At times Liverpool put 3 men on him,had he used his head and passed the ball at times rather than trying to take them on we could have outnumbered their defence.Pogba did the same.

There was four around him twice. I was bulling we didn't switch the ball to the right more often.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/ManUtdStuff/status/820947688300679168

https://twitter.com/TeamBeqa/status/820969158632493056

How can you not love this guy
Brilliant

Liam McPoyle

#genius

Nailz

zerks wrote: »

At times Liverpool put 3 men on him,had he used his head a passed the ball at times rather than trying to take them on we could have outnumbered their defence.Pogba did the same.

Pogba's patience on the ball and his holding off has always been a point of criticism for him, he consistently holds possession longer than necessary. Given that Liverpool are a team who press tight, aggressively and in numbers I would have figured that it was always going to be an issue unless Pogba changed up his style (which I doubt he'd be in favour of doing).

Liverpool played him well, they spotted him as an area of opportunity to exploit their only defensive strength (pressing), and they took full advantage. They frustrated Pogba, then his temperament seriously let him down...

The_Kew_Tour

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtdStuff/status/820947688300679168

Karma bites them in the ass so many times.

Thats why everyone should let them shout away

beno619

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

I truly don't think this is the case with Valencia, people have been critical of his end product for years, I know I have anyway.
His crossing has been a joke for a long time now.

Just look at the two examples of good build up play and passes by Herrera out to Valencia that Tom D. posted on the last page. Valencia kills both those attacks, as he tends to do the majority of the time he has the ball.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/statszone/8-2016/matches/855376/player-stats/20695/2_ATTACK_01#tabs-wrapper-anchor

Its the timing of the criticism that bugs me but yes its fair to say that people have criticised him for years.

Just had a quick look at stats for Baines & Coleman vs City yesterday. Valencia got more crosses in than both of them combined from what I can see.

I'd say his cross map would be quite comparable to most full backs playing for teams in the top 6.

Nalz

Nalz wrote: »

Yep those four plus Zlatan far post (should have ran quicker to back post to meet a good cross from Martial) and the half chance when charged the keeper down.

So 5.5 chances really!

It was way too high for zlatan tbf

beno619

beno619 wrote: »

Its the timing of the criticism that bugs me but yes its fair to say that people have criticised him for years.

Just had a quick look at stats for Baines & Coleman vs City yesterday. Valencia got more crosses in than both of them combined from what I can see.

I'd say his cross map would be quite comparable to most full backs playing for teams in the top 6.

Does the accuracy of those crosses not concern you?

beno619

bucketybuck wrote: »

Pogba is getting all the grief but any thoughts on Martial yesterday?

Another whole load of nothing once again in my opinion, made worse by the fact he was up against a rookie full back and we needed so much more from him.

Was far better than Pogba tbf, Id add Mikhitaryan to the list though.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Pogba is getting all the grief but any thoughts on Martial yesterday?

Another whole load of nothing once again in my opinion, made worse by the fact he was up against a rookie full back and we needed so much more from him.

Already commented on him. He was poor
Jose hauled him off and rightfully so

StringerBell

Jayop wrote: »

There was four around him twice. I was bulling we didn't switch the ball to the right more often.

Screaming at the to switch it to the man in acres of space on the right! Of course it was Valencia more often then not so it would have likely ended in a throw after he clattered a ball into a full backs ankle.

StringerBell

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It was way too high for zlatan tbf

Exactly

It was not a good cross, it was overhit. Too high and too deep, Zlatan sprinted to it and even with a flying leap he only barely got a touch on it as it was going out.

Harsh to consider that a missed chance

beno619

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Does the accuracy of those crosses not concern you?

I'd have to compare him to his peers before I could pass comment on accuracy.

Sometimes its acceptable to get the ball into dangerous areas while other times you need to pick out a man.

Would be interesting to have our resident statistician Pro F offer a view on what stats can paint an accurate picture of cross quality.

yabadabado

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ManUtdStuff/status/820947688300679168

I like Klopp but in the interview yesterday he came across poorly.It was nearly like sour grapes that United played long balls and it didn't suit his team

United got a point and if it need long balls to break down Liverpool so be it.
Obviously don't want to see that every game but needs must.

Rayne Wooney

The whole "we're classier than you" thing they have going on is the best part, really hoping it goes tits up for them.

Obviously that long ball stat is fabricated by OPTA for United, Klopp would never stoop so low. He plays beautiful football whilst winning all the trophies, apparently.

Potential Underachiever

yabadabado wrote: »

I like Klopp but in the interview yesterday he came across poorly.It was nearly like sour grapes that United played long balls and it didn't suit his team

United got a point and if it need long balls to break down Liverpool so be it.
Obviously don't want to see that every game but needs must.

So did you in the match thread.

You posted ....Liverpool, always the victims, just in case anyone missed that.

Flint Fredstone

The absolute neck of Klopp to say that it wasn't football after Fellaini came on, when they just sat back after the goal and didn't try anything.
It's a wonder where a lot of their fans get the hypocrisy from.

yabadabado

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

So did you in the match thread.

You posted ....Liverpool, always the victims, just in case anyone missed that.

You know you can report a post if you are offended by it ?

bucketybuck

beno619 wrote: »

I'd have to compare him to his peers before I could pass comment on accuracy.

No, you really don't.

Stats would only back up my point but even so you don't need moneyball facts and figures to see what is happening on the field. It doesn't matter what other players are doing, be it a player on our left side or a player at a different club, we watch the games and can judge a player on his own merits.

Wanted to comment on the hypocrisy that is that is the majority of Liverpool fans, especially from the thrash I have read on boards and the ****e that's been spouted in work

To Liverpools credit they pressed well yesterday which caused plenty issues in midfield. this is a + for Klopp tactically.
However they created nothing prior to the penalty which was simply a stupid mistake by Pogba

That was probably one of the best performances by a liverpool goalkeeper that I have witnessed in a very long time. Mignolet reminds me slightly of Joe Heart, he's a good shot stopper and made a wonderful save for Mikis chance for example but he's just error prone when it comes to some of the basics like dealing with pressure from attackers / corner kicks / free kicks. Still a decent keeper in there somewhere.

Once Liverpool took the lead they started to sit deeper.
Second half emphasized that and tactically it was the correct decision, sit deep and defend and possibly catch us on the break. Utilize Coutihnio to possibly create something on the break which was a decent sub also.

We only have ourselves to blame for all the missed chances, The best early chance fell to Pogba which he missed woefully impacting his poor performance.
But again simple narrative for wums to knee jerk just for the rise and come out with the likes of "He's ****e" etc without ever looking at improved performances throughout the season, and the fact he's still a developing player.

Two main points:

Point A: It's again so ironic that a perfectly fine tactic to sit deep is acceptable in the this instance but when the shoe is on the other foot it's simply a "Park the bus" exercise.
Nothing got to do with being a goal up or down. You either commit to sit deep or you push out.

Point B: Jose was forced to adjust tactically and play more direct, thus getting us the equalizer with a great performance from Fellini at the focal point of most of the good attacking play in the second half
And again it reverts to "long ball" tactics when again it's a perfectly viable tactic for anyone sitting deep.

It really boils down to a couple of things;

Klopp comes out and has a snide winge about Fellani coming on the game no longer was about football. That type of ****e feeds the wums. Talking directly about a specific player was particularity petty. Which fuels the media horsehite thus feeding the wums.

To be fair Jose shouldn't be complaining about Liverpool sitting deep either as this was also a viable tactic with the current situation they were in especially in the second half.

It all boils down to wums using this type of narrative to simply get a way to wind up fans, a sensible discussion on the match would actually be great and I'd be glad to engage with the couple of decent Liverpool posters who are on the site and if they are willing to give a fair assessment of the match yesterday.

jayo26

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

So did you in the match thread.

You posted ....Liverpool, always the victims, just in case anyone missed that.

For God sake he even said it wasn't a reference to the 96 and what not.

It's been said about city too they are always the victims why does everything have to be exaggerated.

So chaps, are ye out of the title race now?

sky88

yabadabado wrote: »

I like Klopp but in the interview yesterday he came across poorly.It was nearly like sour grapes that United played long balls and it didn't suit his team

United got a point and if it need long balls to break down Liverpool so be it.
Obviously don't want to see that every game but needs must.

it was actually very like jose in a way. jose when he has drawn or lost games he annoyed with the other team style of play.

i dont think jose has really done this, this season at all from what i can remember

Trigger

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

So did you in the match thread.

You posted ....Liverpool, always the victims, just in case anyone missed that.

While I haven't seen the match thread since the 7th or 8th page.. what has that got to do with the discussion going on now?

Cantona's Collars

yabadabado wrote: »

I like Klopp but in the interview yesterday he came across poorly.It was nearly like sour grapes that United played long balls and it didn't suit his team

United got a point and if it need long balls to break down Liverpool so be it.
Obviously don't want to see that every game but needs must.

Hints of Pep from him,should the league adapt to suit him? We didn't play fair by going direct to counteract their pressing game.That was good management by Jose.Even Fergie used to go long when chasing games,we aren't a Van Gaal team anymore who would play a hundred aimless passes rather than a percentage ball into the box.

jayo26

Augeo wrote: »

So chaps, are ye out of the title race now?

We were never ever in it after the first 10 or so games but hey we be still in the top four race and 3 bloody cup competitions.

yabadabado

jayo26 wrote: »

For God sake he even said it wasn't a reference to the 96 and what not.

It's been said about city too they are always the victims why does everything have to be exaggerated.

Some posters want to find offence in everything.

bucketybuck

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

So did you in the match thread.

You posted ....Liverpool, always the victims, just in case anyone missed that.

Grow up.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

So chaps, are ye out of the title race now?

I would consider it too much at this stage but you never know.
Ultimately a draw wasn't good enough yesterday.
What is promising is that we won't play anyone in the top four until near April.
This is a great opportunity for us to continue to accumulate points against weaker sides in the league.
We really need to improve on our finishing however. It's my biggest concern. The style of football is not of concern.

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

The absolute neck of Klopp to say that it wasn't football after Fellaini came on, when they just sat back after the goal and didn't try anything.
It's a wonder where a lot of their fans get the hypocrisy from.

They all drink the Kool Aid once they arrive. It endears them to the fans and the more nonsense hypocrisy the better as far as they're concerned.

RobertKK

If anyone plays PL fantasy football and have the app on their phone they can see a lot of stats for players and teams.

Most long balls this season from the top 6 and ranking in top 20:
Spurs 9th
Liverpool 12th
Chelsea 13th
United 17th
City 19th
Arsenal 20th

Costa, Zlatan and Sanchez have each scored 14 goals in the PL. Kane is on 13 but he missed 7 weeks of the season.

Pogba with 5 is in 2nd place behind De Bruyne who hit the woodwork 6 times

Sanchez has 34 through balls in the league with Pogba in 2nd with 20.

Henderson has done the most passes in the league with 1704 passes, Pogba is in 2nd place with 1448 passes


When it comes to teams and shots
1. Spurs 365
2. Liverpool 365
3. United 350
4. City 340
5. Arsenal 319
6. Chelsea 313 who are 1 ahead of Southampton

Number of passes teams have made this season so far:
1. Liverpool 12601
2. City 12252
3.Arsenal 12007
4. United 11354
5. Chelsea 11053
6. Spurs 11042

Number of crosses:
1. Southampton 560
2. United 519
5. City449
7. Liverpool 424
8. Spurs 417
16. Chelsea 387
17. Arsenal 369

We had the 5th most corners behind top rivals City, Spurs and Liverpool who had more.

When it comes to goals inside and outside the box it is clear as if we didn't already know - we don't score enough, and converting enough chances is a problem.

Flint Fredstone

jayo26 wrote: »

For God sake he even said it wasn't a reference to the 96 and what not.

It's been said about city too they are always the victims why does everything have to be exaggerated.

You're not allowed say the word victim in the same post as Liverpool or any of their players.

I remember saying Suarez had a victim mentality before. Got the usual "that's classy" bollox. Best just to use persecution complex and paranoia to save having to listen to it.

Jayop

So the two things they accuse us of namely being long ball merchants and parking the bus they both have done more often than us this year.

Is that irony and hypocrisy all wrapped up in one?

RobertKK

United are the current holders of the longest unbeaten streak in Europe when it comes to the top leagues.

https://twitter.com/ManUtdStuff/status/820876305000529921

Nalz

Jayop wrote: »

Fellaini hitting the post. Does that not count because we scored soon after?

Edit: and Rooney hit a cracking Volley that took a very good save.

Yep they do but I was talking about first half chances in my original post

Jayop

Nalz wrote: »

Yep they do but I was talking about first half chances in my original post

Ah sorry.

Jayop

Be nice for Liverpool if they can beat Plymouth at the second time of asking. About time they won a game this year.