Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

limnam

Interesting stat on Valencia after all the slack he gets.

He's completed more crossed than any other PL player. Impressive.

Trigger

Wonder if that stat includes our players picking up the ball after it goes out for a throw/corner

limnam

limnam wrote: »

Interesting stat on Valencia after all the slack he gets.

He's completed more crossed than any other PL player. Impressive.

It's accuracy that's the issue
It doesn't all fall on him though
We can't finish our dinner at the moment

jayo26

limnam wrote: »

Interesting stat on Valencia after all the slack he gets.

He's completed more crossed than any other PL player. Impressive.

I know he had an assist the other day but valencia had one successful cross from 11 that's shocking we need someone that can at least send in crosses with a 40 or 50 percent success rate.

20 Times 20 Times

we have just gone 1/3 to sign Coleman . . .

Kerrydude1981

I think the problem with the full backs is that they seem to panic once they get into a position to cross,its like just get the ball in there,anywhere will do

Borthwick-Jackson put in some serious crosses last season in the games he played

limnam

jayo26 wrote: »

I know he had an assist the other day but valencia had one successful cross from 11 that's shocking we need someone that can at least send in crosses with a 40 or 50 percent success rate.

I thought completed was when it reached a player on your team.

If it is and he's the most successful one in the PL. Who do you get? :pac:

limnam

20 Times 20 Times wrote: »

we have just gone 1/3 to sign Coleman . . .

If that's true, I wonder why it wasn't done with the morgan deal

Lord TSC

limnam wrote: »

If that's true, I wonder why it wasn't done with the morgan deal

IF it's true, maybe it was started during that time?

Mind, all the shortening of the odds means is that someone lumped a load of cash on it. Not that there's anything concrete.

bucketybuck

limnam wrote: »

Interesting stat on Valencia after all the slack he gets.

He's completed more crossed than any other PL player. Impressive.

That stat just reinforces what I said the other day, that in my opinion a disproportionate amount of our attacks end up at the feet of the right full back , on the right side of the pitch and in the final third. So the amount of crosses from there is indeed going to be high.

That being the case, with so many of our attacks going there we need the delivery from that position to be good, and it really isn't.

Cantona's Collars

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Apparently Utd and Arsenal are scouting Celtic LB Kieran Tierney,

Now its the Sun that is reporting it so take that with a pinch of salt

Kerrydude did me on it,this was posted this morning,........ By me:)

Cantona's Collars

Did Valencia sign the contract or did he stand and look at it eventually to pass it to somebody else to do it?

jayo26

zerks wrote: »

Did Valencia sign the contract or did he stand and look at it eventually to pass it to somebody else to do it?

No he went to sign it but turned around and walked back out.

TheDoc

Lord TSC wrote: »

IF it's true, maybe it was started during that time?

Mind, all the shortening of the odds means is that someone lumped a load of cash on it. Not that there's anything concrete.

This.

We could definitely do with better delivery from our fullbacks, which is generally piss poor.

But changing one converted right back for another? Sorry I fail to ever be really impressed with Coleman to believe he could make the step up.

Heaven forbid we just try Darmian at right back....

Your Airbag

limnam wrote: »

Interesting stat on Valencia after all the slack he gets.

He's completed more crossed than any other PL player. Impressive.

What constitutes a successful cross though? Many times Valencia gets past the fullback, and with time and space, drives a low cross that either misses everybody, goes towards the edge of the box behind players advancing towards the penalty area or hits the legs of a defender.

I like Valencia and he is one of our most reliable players but his judgement to put in a decent high cross for a headed chance seems to be off, and i say judgement instead of ability because I think he prefers a low cross as a tactic.

I remember when we had a victory away to Chelsea in a big league game under Fergie where Van Persie scored and was set up by Valencia from a low cross early on, and also another low cross was responsible for a David Luiz own goal early in that game and how afterwards I saw either an interview with RVP and Val on TV or I read some article about how they had trained all week using a "new" tactic of RVP peeling towards the front post and a low cross being directed at him to try get some early goals. It stuck with me as obviously it worked that day but from then on all I can remember is Val trying low cross after low cross, or at least a lot more than he used too.

I can't find the interview or article but this was the match

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYr-exPvxdU

Trigger

He was in Dublin making an ad today apparently.. can't see anything anywhere else about a move/bid/enquiry

https://twitter.com/EmmettMiley/status/821315718847352832

limnam

Your Airbag wrote: »

What constitutes a successful cross though?

i assumed the same as pass completion. E.g. the pass reached a team mate.
Cross completion. The cross reaches a team mate. I could be wrong though.

Successful cross doesn't make much sense if hits the defender/goes out etc

jayo26

limnam wrote: »

I thought completed was when it reached a player on your team.

If it is and he's the most successful one in the PL. Who do you get? :pac:

He has seemingly a 30 percent cross rate in premierleague this season going by the premierleague site. Now what counts as a cross? Does the balls that hit the defender 5 yards in front of him count? Or is it aerial balls in from out wide?

I can't see it been that noway does he make more than one or two decent crosses a game but he attempt alot more.

limnam

jayo26 wrote: »

He has seemingly a 30 percent cross rate in premierleague this season going by the premierleague site. Now what counts as a cross? Does the balls that hit the defender 5 yards in front of him count? Or is it aerial balls in from out wide?

I can't see it been that noway does he make more than one or two decent crosses a game but he attempt alot more.

I'm sorry I brought it up :pac:

Kerrydude1981

zerks wrote: »

Kerrydude did me on it,this was posted this morning,........ By me:)

:D

Cantona's Collars

jayo26 wrote: »

He has seemingly a 30 percent cross rate in premierleague this season going by the premierleague site. Now what counts as a cross? Does the balls that hit the defender 5 yards in front of him count? Or is it aerial balls in from out wide?

I can't see it been that noway does he make more than one or two decent crosses a game but he attempt alot more.

If a player gets into the positions that Valencia does we'd expect at least a decent percentage of his crosses to pick out a team mate. Imagine if we had somebody like Beckham out there playing in balls for a 6 foot 5 beast of a CF. If we analyse Val's crosses a lot of goals are scored by 2nd balls off them,yes he picks out somebody but they usually don't have a clear scoring chance themselves from the service they get.

jayo26

limnam wrote: »

I'm sorry I brought it up :pac:

Ahh no we won't obsess over it but it's intresting as to what a cross is or else my eyes are lying to me.

I wish jose and Shaw would hug and make up because we really miss him Down the left darmian just isn't as fluent because he is totally right footed and that dont work you can't have an inverted fullback when our wingers are kinda narrow players.

beno619

jayo26 wrote: »

I know he had an assist the other day but valencia had one successful cross from 11 that's shocking we need someone that can at least send in crosses with a 40 or 50 percent success rate.

Getting 11 crosses off is impressive though. More than Baines & Coleman combined last weekend, surely that counts for something ?

jayo26

beno619 wrote: »

Getting 11 crosses off is impressive though. More than Baines & Coleman combined last weekend, surely that counts for something ?

What's the point in having 11 crosses if only one is Completed? Imagine the chances we have if 5 or 6 made the way into the box? That's like saying 100 passes is excellent but only 10 found a team mate.

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

What's the point in having 11 crosses if only one is Completed? Imagine the chances we have if 5 or 6 made the way into the box? That's like saying 100 passes is excellent but only 10 found a team mate.

To be fair it's easier to make an accurate cross if you're overlapping and getting the ball in a bit of space. Generally when Valencia gets the ball he's all on his own on the right, has to beat a man or engineer some space for himself and then try to cross. If he had a winger playing there with him his cross rate would drop but I'm sure his success percentage would go up.

jayo26

Jayop wrote: »

To be fair it's easier to make an accurate cross if you're overlapping and getting the ball in a bit of space. Generally when Valencia gets the ball he's all on his own on the right, has to beat a man or engineer some space for himself and then try to cross. If he had a winger playing there with him his cross rate would drop but I'm sure his success percentage would go up.

Yh that's a fair point too I miss the days of nevile and becks thst was how two players should work together on a wing.

Jayop

jayo26 wrote: »

Yh that's a fair point too I miss the days of nevile and becks thst was how two players should work together on a wing.

For all the critique of Valencia, and a lot of it justified, I can't think of another single player who would be able to control an entire wing by himself with no assistance. Does he make a lot of bad crosses, yes, does he occasionally get caught out of position defensively, yes but not so much any more. Does he ever get help from a forward player on his side of the pitch, not really.

I'd love Coleman to come to United, I've said it for years, but the current tactic of letting Valencia be both the winger and full back would have to change and you'd immediately have to play a more disciplined winger on our RHS. Do we even have a player who would be able to do that now to a decent level on the right?

IamtheWalrus

Can't see Jose being interested in Coleman, especially as he'd come with at a English premium.

The_Kew_Tour

Coleman wont be coming to United this month.

Still think we might buy somebody though

Mitch Connor

I think if we are to buy a right back it would be a young one, early twenties. One to firstly compete with valencia then take his spot as he develops more. Can't see us buying an older player, unless well sell valencia and sign both an older and younger right back.

Flint Fredstone

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Translation: "I really want him to b*tch about and blame everything on Rooney."

I'm guessing there's more than one, rumours point to Rooney but I'd like to know for sure.

Maybe it would clear up those rumours in Rooney's favour but don't let it stop you having a whinge on poor little Wayne's behalf.

Mitch Connor

Can't see LVG spilling any beans sone time soon. I would guess his hefty severance package included an NDA on such matters.

jackwigan

Would love to see Coleman in a United shirt. Absolutely biased because he's Irish but I've always loved the Irish connection with United. Keane is my all time favorite United player and I think that connection has been watered down since JOS left.

bucketybuck

I'm no particular fan of Coleman but even so, he is 28 now, 29 in October and I see little point in investing in a 28 year old full back. We are 2/3 years away from competing at the sharp end of the CL again and we should be thinking along those lines, building towards a team that in 2/3 years time will really be coming together and ready to dominate. Coleman doesn't really fit that, buy him and just when we should be peaking we will have to replace him again.

Thats long term, but even short term he isn't going to be the difference between success or failure so whats the point? He isn't much of an upgrade and he certainly is no world class player that would justify the move a la Zlatan.

We definitely need to replace Valencia but it still needs to be with the right player and I don't think Coleman is it.

deaddonkey15

Korat wrote: »

What's the story with you and Rooney?

If you know him or have met him I understand the loyalty. I have my own blindspots too.

That joke has been made a few times before, it wasn't funny then either.

yabadabado

Coleman as likeable as he is and most here will be biased isn't much of an upgrade.United need to buy a RB but I don't see that player coming from EPL.
Anyone know much about Semedo (sp) From Benfica .That's the only RB I have seen linked recently.

Liam O

Coleman would clean up from some of the positions Valencia gets into imo. That said given his age he's probably not worth more than 25m to United and worth a lot more to Everton so I can't see it happening. Would have been great if Moyes had splashed on him a few years back but not to be.

Liam O

beno619 wrote: »

Getting 11 crosses off is impressive though. More than Baines & Coleman combined last weekend, surely that counts for something ?

I actually think the amount of crosses he attempts is the problem. Often Pogba or someone else will be at the edge of the box and instead of playing a short ball across to him Valencia will fire it at the shins of the defender or over everyone. I'd rate Coleman and Baines as capable of making smarter plays in those areas. Coleman especially brings it inside and can use both feet to beat a defender. Look at the goal he set up for Wes against Sweden. Valencia couldn't do that.

Leroy42

Valencia is terrible in relation to crosses and end product.

He has a great engine, a brilliant first touch, but with the level of players we have in CF and midfield the wings should be providing us with continuous chances.

He either hits the 1st defender or a general 'into the box anywhere' type cross. And we know he can do it, that cross he put in the previous game which Pogba left was perfect. But he doesn't do it often enough.

Whether it is him of the lack of a winger I'm not sure, but we should be killing teams playing like that.

bangkok

Cannot see us going for coleman. Valencia is one of the first names on the team sheet. Having an excellent season

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Cannot see us going for coleman. Valencia is one of the first names on the team sheet . Having an excellent season

Thats just because he is right back and it's next in order after goalkeeper.

I'm not saying that valencia is a major problem he isnt but if there is an upgrade available or a natural younger right back I would be going for them.

He is far from having an excellent season he is having an acceptable season that's it nothing exciting but nothing bad apart from his contribution going forward

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Thats just because he is right back and it's next in order after goalkeeper.

I'm not saying that valencia is a major problem he isnt but if there is an upgrade available or a natural younger right back I would be going for them.

He is far from having an excellent season he is having an acceptable season that's it nothing exciting but nothing bad apart from his contribution going forward

Why do people always think we need to buy players to become successful? Fosu mensah has shown more than enougj to suggest he will be our next right back at the club

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

Why do people always think we need to buy players to become successful? Fosu mensah has shown more than enougj to suggest he will be our next right back at the club

I didn't say we need to buy players to be successful but at the moment tfm isn't even making ya the bench as cover most weeks so I doubt jose sees him at right back anytime soon.

Valencia is an average right back he is not excellent or having an excellent season which is what you said and on the basis of his current ability and tfm been young if an upgrade on Valencia was available id sign him.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

Why do people always think we need to buy players to become successful? Fosu mensah has shown more than enougj to suggest he will be our next right back at the club

Wut Wut now? Where has he shown this form you speak of?

I watched him when we lost to feyenord in the europa league and he was absolutely dreadful at right back.

bucketybuck

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Wut Wut now? Where has he shown this form you speak of?

I was wondering that myself. 161 minutes spread across 6 games this season, with not one minute of that in the Premier league. Yep, he has shown enough, put your life savings on him being a world class right back... :rolleyes:

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Why do people always think we need to buy players to become successful? Fosu mensah has shown more than enougj to suggest he will be our next right back at the club

The only reason TFM is being mentioned as a RB is cause LVG shoehorned him in there. He is a natural DM and would be way more comfortable as a CB than a RB.. he can play there alright and he has a couple of times this season but he is no way a natural RB

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Wut Wut now? Where has he shown this form you speak of?

I watched him when we lost in terms europa league and he was absolutely dreadful at right back.

Spurs away he was brilliant. Shown plenty of potential in other games as well

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

The only reason TFM is being mentioned as a RB is cause LVG shoehorned him in there. He is a natural DM and would be way more comfortable as a CB than a RB.. he can play there alright and he has a couple of times this season but he is no way a natural RB

No player is a natural right back, majority are not good enough for centre back or didn't have the ability to play on the wing so right and left back become their position

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

I was wondering that myself. 161 minutes spread across 6 games this season, with not one minute of that in the Premier league. Yep, he has shown enough, put your life savings on him being a world class right back... :rolleyes:

Do you not count last season? 10 games played, 8 in the premier league

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

No player is a natural right back, majority are not good enough for centre back or didn't have the ability to play on the wing so right and left back become their position

Jesus ****ing christ.. I'm out