Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Jesus ****ing christ.. I'm out

:pac::pac::pac:

beno619

Liam O wrote: »

I actually think the amount of crosses he attempts is the problem. Often Pogba or someone else will be at the edge of the box and instead of playing a short ball across to him Valencia will fire it at the shins of the defender or over everyone. I'd rate Coleman and Baines as capable of making smarter plays in those areas. Coleman especially brings it inside and can use both feet to beat a defender. Look at the goal he set up for Wes against Sweden. Valencia couldn't do that.

Ah I disagree with most of this tbh.

The shin thing is a narrative that has stuck with him but is inaccurate this season.

I understand why Coleman is loved by some here but I just don't see it, he's 28 now and none of the top managers have deemed him or Baines good enough to take them off Everton. That's his level.

Last season I would have moaned about Val at fullback but I'm quite happy with him this season.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Why do people always think we need to buy players to become successful? Fosu mensah has shown more than enougj to suggest he will be our next right back at the club

He hasn't. He may be a cb in the future, he may even be a DM with time, not the next right back at the club though.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

Do you not count last season? 10 games played, 8 in the premier league

What I count is that he started 2 games last season in the PL.

Add 6 sub appearances for a grand total of 254 minutes which isn't even 3 full games worth.

Why don't you just save everybody time and admit that you were talking out of your hole by saying TFM has shown enough to suggest he will be our next anything, he hasn't shown a damn thing.

bucketybuck

beno619 wrote: »

The shin thing is a narrative that has stuck with him but is inaccurate this season.

Its not a narrative, its the reality.

Sometimes you just have to be rude and wonder what games people are watching.

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

Jesus ****ing christ.. I'm out

Just off the top of my head, prob the best right back and left back from the last few years, Philip Lahm and Roberts Carlos. Lahm started in the youths as a midfielder, Roberts Carlos started as a forward. Players are trained and developed into the role of right and left back

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

No player is a natural right back, majority are not good enough for centre back or didn't have the ability to play on the wing so right and left back become their position

Never change man

Jayop

League Table

2) Spurs - P 21 - Pts 45
3) Liverpool - P 21 - Pts 45
4) Arsenal - P 21 - Pts 44
5) City - P 21 - Pts 42
6) United - P 21 - Pts 40

Fixtures till the end of Feb

21/22 Jan
Liverpool Vs Swansea
Stoke Vs United
Spurs Vs City
Arsenal Vs Burnley

31 Jan / 1st Feb
Sunderland Vs Spurs
Liverpool Vs Chelsea
Arsenal vs Watford
West Ham Vs City
United Vs Hull


4/5 Feb
Chelsea Vs Arsenal
Spurs Vs Boro
Hull vs Liverpool
City vs Swansea
Leicester Vs United

11/13 Feb
Arsenal Vs Hull
United Vs Watford
Liverpool Vs Spurs
Bournemouth Vs City

26/27 Feb
Spurs vs Stoke
City vs United (likely to be rescheduled)
Leicester vs Liverpool (could be rescheduled)
Southampton Vs Arsenal


Assuming that all the other teams in the top 6 win their games against teams outside it.

If we can win all our four games up to Valentines day (Stoke, Hull, Leicester, Watford) that would leave us on 52 Points.

I think that Spurs will beat City this weekend. Give City the other 3 wins. City on 51 Points.

Again, Arsenal to get the three wins and lose away to Chelsea. 53 Points.

Liverpool are home against the two form teams so I'd say two wins and two draws. 53 Points

Spurs to beat the first three and draw with Liverpool - 55 Points.

Table before the last weekend in January when we'll hopefully be playing in the cup final.

2) Spurs - P 25 - Pts 55
3) Liverpool - P 25 - Pts 53
4) Arsenal - P 25 - Pts 53
5) United - P 25 - Pts 52
6) City - P 25 - Pts 51


Amazingly if that does happen that'll be after us getting 31 points from the previous 33 on offer and we'd still only have gone up one place. The pace at the top really is fierce this year and any mistake in the next 4 games could really cost us our shot at the top 4.

I suppose we could hope that one of the teams in the top 4 slip up against a lower league team as has happened recently. Spurs could also potentially lose to City and Liverpool which would leave them on 51 points.

It's all to play for but it's just amazingly tough to climb the table this season.

Edit: Or Spurs and Chelsea or one of them could beat Liverpool and leave them level on points with us or 2 points behind us.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Never change man

It's true, Seamus Coleman himself started with Sligo rovers as a right winger.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

Do you not count last season? 10 games played, 8 in the premier league

NO. Because this season is under a new coach. If we counted last season Rooney would still be undroppable.

He's done SFA to suggest he will be our long term right back

mewe

bangkok wrote: »

It's true, Seamus Coleman himself started with Sligo rovers as a right winger.

Nah he was a RB for Rovers man and played pretty much how he plays now.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

It's true, Seamus Coleman himself started with Sligo rovers as a right winger.

Just Where do you get this from? I've played against coleman, he was a GAA player who played his ball with killybeggs FC and he played right back and full back for both sports.

His first game for rovers was a substitute appearance for Adam Hughes the Australian right back.

Honest to Christ.

He was up and down the wing just like he is for Everton. He might have filled in the wing a few games but he 110% was a right back.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

It's true, Seamus Coleman himself started with Sligo rovers as a right winger.

No your right it is true to an extent in some cases even Gary never started out as a center back but was moved to right back because of his physic but that can be said about any player in any position it's not abnormal for a player to change position as they developed.

Schweinsteiger started as winger moved to midfield.

Mata started as winger but moved to cam and back.

Henry and the list goes on

The difference is they were world class in there new positions where as tfm was shoe horned in to cover for injuries and did well but is much better in deep midfield role.

We need proper fullbacks that have bags of energy that can cross the ball successfully more then once a game and can defend properly.

Tfm didn't have to worry so much about defending because of the football we played we mostly had the ball and if not the midfielders were still in our half so could cover for him.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

No your right it is true to an extent in some cases even Gary never started out as a center back but was moved to right back because of his physic but that can be said about any player in any position it's not abnormal for a player to change position as they developed.

Schweinsteiger started as winger moved to midfield.

Mata started as winger but moved to cam and back.

Henry and the list goes on

The difference is they were world class in there new positions where as tfm was shoe horned in to cover for injuries and did well but is much better in deep midfield role.

We need proper fullbacks that have bags of energy that can cross the ball successfully more then once a game and can defend properly.

Tfm didn't have to worry so much about defending because of the football we played we mostly had the ball and if not the midfielders were still in our half so could cover for him.

It was put to me earlier how can I consider fosu mensah a good right back when he hasn't played there much, but he has played probably 15 times there for the senior squad, I put it to you now how do you know he is much better in a deep midfield role?

bangkok

mewe wrote: »

Nah he was a RB for Rovers man and played pretty much how he plays now.

Yea maybe, I remember him playing more on the wing, maybe rovers played a 3-5-2 and Coleman was on the wing?

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

It was put to me earlier how can I consider fosu mensah a good right back when he hasn't played there much, but he has played probably 15 times there for the senior squad, I put it to you now how do you know he is much better in a deep midfield role?

I have seen him play in the youth teams and reserves yes a different standard but he still looks like a deeper midfield player he has the build and skills set for it.

I know your going to say but senior football is better and and that's true it is but Tim has long. Been regarded as a top midfield prospect even. Before we signed him.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

Yea maybe, I remember him playing more on the wing, maybe rovers played a 3-5-2 and Coleman was on the wing?

No rovers didn't they played. a 442 under cook for 2 years.

I know this because I was at most of the games.

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Jesus ****ing christ.. I'm out

It's a mad aul feeling, isn't it? Have to hand it to him, in fairness.

Trigger

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

No rovers didn't they played. a 442 under cook for 2 years.

I know this because I was at most of the games.

Paul Cook has Portsmouth playing some good stuff in League two atm.. really enjoyed his Sligo teams when they played Bohs. Took him a while to get going.. won a good few Cups with yiz didn't he

Just to help me catch-up with the common thought in the thread, why are we dissing/disliking Tony V today?

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

It was put to me earlier how can I consider fosu mensah a good right back when he hasn't played there much, but he has played probably 15 times there for the senior squad, I put it to you now how do you know he is much better in a deep midfield role?

Actaully it wasn't just "is he a good right back", you said he had shown enough to prove he could be Manchester Uniteds regular right back for years to come. There are lots of "good" right backs that wouldn't be considered good enough for one of the world biggest clubs.

Just thought I would clarify that, wouldn't like anybody to think you were trying to obfuscate the discussion about the claim you made.

Trigger

stankratz wrote: »

Just to help me catch-up with the common thought in the thread, why are we dissing/disliking Tony V today?

Not really.. we are questioning the quality of his crossing and whether we could upgrade him.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

I have seen him play in the youth teams and reserves yes a different standard but he still looks like a deeper midfield player he has the build and skills set for it.

I know your going to say but senior football is better and and that's true it is but Tim has long. Been regarded as a top midfield prospect even. Before we signed him.

He best performances in the u21's were at full back, it was actually his performances there that got him his senior call up.

Anyway, players at his age that are multifunctional have plenty of time to develop and play a number of positions. Just look at Philip Lahm, equally comfortable at FB, lb or midfield and he is world class, or David Alaba, just as good left back as he is in midfield

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Not really.. we are questioning the quality of his crossing and whether we could upgrade him

And bangkok is going around in circles.

F. Y. P

bucketybuck

stankratz wrote: »

Just to help me catch-up with the common thought in the thread, why are we dissing/disliking Tony V today?

1 assist in 18 games from an important position, thats why.

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

He best performances in the u21's were at full back, it was actually his performances there that got him his senior call up.

Anyway, players at his age that are multifunctional have plenty of time to develop and play a number of positions. Just look at Philip Lahm, equally comfortable at FB, lb or midfield and he is world class, or David Alaba, just as good left back as he is in midfield

Pal tfm played only 4 substitute games for united underage at full back last season he played 12 games in cdm and 3 at CB I can't see how you say his best performances came at full back from bit part performance when he was brilliant at midfield.

astradave

astradave wrote: »

Not really.. we are questioning the quality of his crossing and whether we could upgrade him.

Cheers Dave. His crossing, although a slight improvement this season on the last few (IMO) is nowhere near where the team needs it to be. I can't remember what season it was exactly, but about 5 years ago he was pinging crosses into Rooney for fun, who was converting them for fun. It was in him, at one point.

With the nice amount of goals the team are getting now, it's only natural to imagine what it would be like if Zlatan/Pogba/Fellaini were actually getting better service consistently with the crosses.

That said, I'm happy enough with how Tony V is doing overall this season. He is the least of my concerns when it comes to full backs at the moment. I'm wondering what's going on with Luke Shaw and if he can be relied upon in future, or are we in need of a new signing at LB also. Would like to see Luke return, and Darmian redeployed at RB, or to compete with Tony V for that spot.

Trigger

stankratz wrote: »

Cheers Dave. His crossing, although a slight improvement this season on the last few (IMO) is nowhere near where the team needs it to be. I can't remember what season it was exactly, but about 5 years ago he was pinging crosses into Rooney for fun, who was converting them for fun. It was in him, at one point.

With the nice amount of goals the team are getting now, it's only natural to imagine what it would be like if Zlatan/Pogba/Fellaini were actually getting better service consistently with the crosses.

That said, I'm happy enough with how Tony V is doing overall this season. He is the least of my concerns when it comes to full backs at the moment. I'm wondering what's going on with Luke Shaw and if he can be relied upon in future, or are we in need of a new signing at LB also. Would like to see Luke return, and Darmian redeployed at RB, or to compete with Tony V for that spot.

Ducker is reporting that Jose is ready to give Shaw another chance to claim the LB role over the next couple of weeks.. the Stoke hull and FA cup games in particular.

Saying that, Delaney started a new role with the independent UK and his first story was that United are going to buy Griezmann and sell Shaw in the summer. This came out after Duckers article

bucketybuck

stankratz wrote: »

Cheers Dave. His crossing, although a slight improvement this season on the last few (IMO) is nowhere near where the team needs it to be. I can't remember what season it was exactly, but about 5 years ago he was pinging crosses into Rooney for fun, who was converting them for fun. It was in him, at one point.

He had 13 assists in the 2011/12 league, he did have it in him, the problem is that was 5 years ago.

bangkok

jayo26 wrote: »

Pal tfm played only 4 substitute games for united underage at full back last season he played 12 games in cdm and 3 at CB I can't see how you say his best performances came at full back from bit part performance when he was brilliant at midfield.

Warren Joyce his manager said his best performances were at full back and he knows more than me or you.. Van gaal also said about him "I made him play at left and right full-back because he has the qualities to play there"

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

He best performances in the u21's were at full back, it was actually his performances there that got him his senior call up.

No they weren't

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

1 assist in 18 games from an important position, thats why.

Maybe if players started scoring more of his crosses he would have more assists?

We are the lowest scoring team in top 6 by a long way, if we scored more goals, chances are he would have more assists

sReq | uTeK

astradave wrote: »

Paul Cook has Portsmouth playing some good stuff in League two atm.. really enjoyed his Sligo teams when they played Bohs. Took him a while to get going.. won a good few Cups with yiz didn't he

Yea he had us playing the best ball in a decade. We won the double under him. Delighted he's doing well.

I have a good few mates who've ended up at Rovers, as did I but that's for another day and what could have been.

Seamus came back recently and pledged 5 grand for a charity event in sligo. Top bloke.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

Maybe if players started scoring more of his crosses he would have more assists?

We are the lowest scoring team in top 6 by a long way, if we scored more goals, chances are he would have more assists

Thats nice, have a cookie.

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

No they weren't

http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/First-Team/Tim-Fosu-Mensah.aspx?pageNo=2

Man Utd website even says his best perfermances were in the full back role.

Must be lying.....

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats nice, have a cookie.

Childish

Trigger

Edit: really can't be arsed..

Headshot

Have you ever, ever felt like this? How strange things happen
Are you going round the twist?

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

From that Link:

24. TIMOTHY FOSU-MENSAH

Birthdate: 02 Jan 1998
Birthplace: Amsterdam
Position: Midfielder
Joined United: 02 Sep 2014
Joined From: Ajax
International: Netherlands U21
United Debut: 28 Feb 2016 v Arsenal (H)
Appearances: 16
Goals Scored: 0

Must be lying :rolleyes:

Why you moving the goal posts?

We are talking about his best performances...

Trigger

Headshot wrote: »

Have you ever, ever felt like this? How strange things happen
Are you going round the twist?

A Classic

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

Why you moving the goal posts?

We are talking about his best performances...

Headshot

astradave wrote: »

A Classic

Yup one of my favourite shows back in the days

Trigger

Headshot wrote: »

Yup one of my favourite shows back in the days

Thanks for that.. I have the feckin theme tune stuck in my head now :pac:

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

He had 13 assists in the 2011/12 league, he did have it in him, the problem is that was 5 years ago.

Yep. I was using that as an example of what he should be capable of, rather than a 'wait and see if it'll happen again' statement of wishful thinking.

None of our fullbacks are living up to their attacking responsibilities at the moment. It's fair enough to ask for more and discuss what could be done with his position, but I wouldn't be using 1 assist in 18 as a general stick to beat Valencia with, if that's what is/was being done. It is too narrow a metric to judge his overall contribution and doesn't take into account some important factors which contribute to the stats.

It's not like his crosses are the only reason, or even the main reason, why the team aren't getting more goals at the moment. Chance conversion by our main attacking players is the reason. I'm not trying to move the goalposts here, just point out that a lot of chances aren't being converted at the moment, I think we're top of that particular table, and it's important here.

Who is supplying the players with these good chances which are being missed, and therefore not registering an assist for the supplier? A few of our players have missed a lot of good chances in the last 15-18 games. With those goals missed, so are the assists.

For that reason, I don't feel assists are the definite way to judge his attacking contribution, and also it doesn't take into account an important contribution a player made to the creation of a goal. For example, in the game v Hull in the EFL last week - For the late opener from Mata, Valencia played a good cross into the box for Mkhitaryan to head towards Mata, who tapped it into the net. I'm not sure how we measure a contribution like that, an assist to the assist maybe, but it is important to take such instances into account.

Late in the game against Liverpool at 1-1 when we were chasing a winner, some of the pressure United applied was coming down Valencia's side. Just off the top of my head, after some close play between Pogba, Rooney and Zlatan by the sideline around the midfield marker, Zlatan then played a clever pass across the field to Valencia who bombed on to create an attack within seconds. Rather than bring the ball forward wide and towards the byline to make a cross, he ran in from the wing and got an attack underway which almost saw Rooney played through on goal but for a poor final pass from Mkhitaryan.

Just a few examples of why I think '1 in 18 assists' is not the best metric to be making a definitive statement on Valencia's attacking contribution to the team. 3 assists in all competitions (3/23) is there to consider also.

fuzzydunlop85

So lads Stoke away this weekend, how are we feeling about that? Have a horrible ,niggling feeling we may drop some points here. Stoke always seem to raise their game against us, 2 defeats and a draw last 3 visits there. What is the story with Shaw, Darmian really is starting to grate on me now. I'm not really sold on Martial but Darmian is doing him no favours at the minute. And on Valencias crossing is it just me or has he stopped blasting the ball shin height into the box? Haven't seen him doing that in a while. His crossing is still **** but at least he has stopped doing that, used to drive me mental. Jose must have had a word.

sReq | uTeK

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

So lads Stoke away this weekend, how are we feeling about that? Have a horrible ,niggling feeling we may drop some points here. Stoke always seem to raise their game against us, 2 defeats and a draw last 3 visits there. What is the story with Shaw, Darmian really is starting to grate on me now. I'm not really sold on Martial but Darmian is doing him no favours at the minute. And on Valencias crossing is it just me or has he stopped blasting the ball shin height into the box? Haven't seen him doing that in a while. His crossing is still **** but at least he has stopped doing that, used to drive me mental. Jose must have had a word.

I don't know if you seen jose comments after the game but he was asked about darmian supporting martial and it does look like it's a jose tactic that has him sitting back. He wants the team to be a back 3 and use Valenca as a right winger and feels darmian can slot in as a 3 man back line. I think he feels darmian might be a better defender than shaw. If he only wants one full back bombing forward it makes sense against big teams.

fuzzydunlop85

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I don't know if you seen jose comments after the game but he was asked about darmian supporting martial and it does look like it's a jose tactic that has him sitting back. He wants the team to be a back 3 and use Valenca as a right winger and feels darmian can slot in as a 3 man back line. I think he feels darmian might be a better defender than shaw. If he only wants one full back bombing forward it makes sense against big teams.

Didn't see that comment, it's definitely not helping Martial at the moment anyways.

Flint Fredstone

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I don't know if you seen jose comments after the game but he was asked about darmian supporting martial and it does look like it's a jose tactic that has him sitting back. He wants the team to be a back 3 and use Valenca as a right winger and feels darmian can slot in as a 3 man back line. I think he feels darmian might be a better defender than shaw. If he only wants one full back bombing forward it makes sense against big teams.

It would make more sense to have Shaw bombing forward and Valencia/Darmian sitting back.

Cantona's Collars

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

It would make more sense to have Shaw bombing forward and Valencia/Darmian sitting back.

The morning papers: 2 have Shaw being sold in the summer having failed to develop any further and one has him being given another chance to prove himself.

beno619

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its not a narrative, its the reality.

Sometimes you just have to be rude and wonder what games people are watching.

Ditto.

Stan put it far more eloquently.

His contribution to are attacking play has been vital.

I've mentioned assists to the assist a number of times here over the past few weeks.

His quality of crossing is up this season and the sheer number of crosses he gets off should be considered in his favour.