Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Sand

yabadabado wrote: »

The experience of starting/playing games on a regular basis will be much better than the few minutes at the end of a game or the rare cup game.

The experience of working with the United coaches and United management team, of working with the United players even if only for a few appearances is going to be worth a lot more.

Look at Borthwick-Jackson. The Wolves loan was pointless for him. It may even have been harmful. Only a few appearances, with lesser players and coaches instead of trying to build on his experience last season and learning from Mourinho and his coaches.

jayo26

Jayop wrote: »

And it's also a fact in my opinion that when you do have a superstar on your hands you don't waste time shipping him out to Big Sam or whomever is making a balls of Sunderland at that time for their kind of top class coaching. You keep them in house and make them break into the first team, a'la pretty much all the top players in the world at the moment.

But your limiting it to the superstars then I agree with players like ronaldo and messi they shine at early years but that's a handful you talking about maybe 30 players playing today are genuinely world class players out of millions of players that play professional football over the world.

jayo26

Sand wrote: »

The experience of working with the United coaches and United management team, of working with the United players even if only for a few appearances is going to be worth a lot more.

Look at Borthwick-Jackson. The Wolves loan was pointless for him. It may even have been harmful. Only a few appearances, with lesser players and coaches instead of trying to build on his experience last season and learning from Mourinho and his coaches.

You keep saying this but who has it benefit? I asked twice who we had produced recently that this has benefit??

And cbj aint doing well but Pereira is so there is arguments on both sides there.

brinty

I smell a new thread

jayo26

brinty wrote: »

I smell a new thread

I hope it's as good to us results wise as this one had been.

caviardreams

3 years today since Mata signed

#thespecialjuan

Sand

jayo26 wrote: »

You keep saying this but who has it benefit? I asked twice who we had produced recently that this has benefit??

And cbj aint doing well but Pereira is so there is arguments on both sides there.

Too soon to say Rashford? Based on what we know now, hes certainly got a brighter future at United than Pereira does.

What would Rashford gain from being sent to Burton Albion to learn his trade? I think its unrealistic to presume there is a raft of Premier League teams just waiting to give 30 games to a 19 year old from United with zero PL experience. There isnt anymore, outside of computer games. PL clubs and even Championship clubs are either buying in first team players, or are giving minutes to their own prospects. CBJ's experience is not surprising. Its the norm.

Lithium93_

caviardreams wrote: »

3 years today since Mata signed

#thespecialjuan

The landing at Carrington in a helicopter

bucketybuck

Jayop wrote: »

How many of them weren't pushing hard for a start at 18/19?

Pushing for a start where?

Is the choice between being owned by a smaller club, going on loan to a smaller club, or just training with a big club?

Because out of those 3 options I'd say the least productive is option 3, because damn sure the big clubs aren't producing the best youths in-house, the numbers of top players coming through the ranks would be dwarfed by the numbers being bought in. For every Rashford there are far more Martials, Rooneys or Ronaldos.

jayo26

Sand wrote: »

Too soon to say Rashford? Based on what we know now, hes certainly got a brighter future at United than Pereira does.

.

Rashford doesn't need a loan he is getting games here but for the players like tfm that are not getting games? He is rated just as high as rashford if not even higher at one stage last year but he is stalling without first team football.

It's to early to say rashford is a success but he is good enough at this moment to be a squad player but in two years time he could be a Danny Welbeck.

Kerrydude1981

caviardreams wrote: »

3 years today since Mata signed

#thespecialjuan

Always laugh at this picture,it looks like Mata cant believe that Moyes is the manager

caviardreams

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Always laugh at this picture,it looks like Mata cant believe that Moyes is the manager

And just look at that immaculate pocket square!

jayo26

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Always laugh at this picture,it looks like Mata cant believe that Moyes is the manager

Haha i remember thinking same it was like hi but where is fergie.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Always laugh at this picture,it looks like Mata cant believe that Moyes is the manager

It looks like Moyes can't believe Moyes is the manager.

Kerrydude1981

Pheonix10 wrote: »

It looks like Moyes can't believe Moyes is the manager.

:D

J. Marston

Get the fúck in!

Headshot

Go wan the long

Go wan the Irish lad

Trigger

Looks like Southampton are going to Wembley

Hococop

Shane longs on fire

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm starting to question the benefit of loaning players like TFM.

Would he not be better training with the first team, learning from the senior players, learning from United coaches and Mourinho, so that he is ingrained in what the manager wants, how the team play and how his teammates play and move?

Like what actual benefit would he get going to what would likely be a struggling PL side fighting for survival, where the maanger would likely bench him anyway going for "experience".

Or whats the point going to the Championship, where tons of managers there value "experience" and Championship no nonsense players over young talent.

Is Pererra really getting benefit from playing in a different team, in a different climate, in a different league?

I very much question the validity of the loan system for a club like ours. I'd wager there is greater benefit for the players who are good enough sticking with the first team for the learning experience and to be really ready when it comes to their early 20's.

Read the absolute bollox Van Baasten came out with in terms of changes to the game (incredible how legendary players can lose a tone of credability so quickly by just being so bloody stupid) but one measure I'd massively support is scrapping the loan system entirely. Just get rid.

Clubs would need to be more selective, players would need to chose wiser, clubs would need to budget and squad build better and I think it would be a positive all around.

I literally do not see any point to the loan system

The one part I can contribute on. Despite Granada being destined for relegation and a bit of a shítshow of a club at the moment, Pereira has been getting plenty of games for them (17 starts, 1 sub) and is positively standing out for the most part in an awful team. Obviously, whether it stands to him in the long run will remain to be seen for a while yet, but he's not rotting away and seems to be doing well.

I've watched 4 games which he played in, and the highlights of about 5 others. Make no mistake, he isn't tearing up the league or is going to be ready for a regular spot at OT next season (IMO) but is a promising player. He could very well be quality yet, having just turned 21 on January 1st.

For Granada he is typically played at LCM or LACM but that seems to be just a guideline. He drifts inside and gets forward and back a lot. From what I've seen, some matches seem to have him playing a box-to-box type role, for better or worse (better: he has the stamina, pace and vision for it. worse: needs lots of development, can lose possession by not releasing the ball soon enough) This freedom is apparently the will of his manager, rather than Periera straying from position and tactical instruction and trying to do too much.

Relegation-bound, La Liga whipping boys Granada wouldn't the best club environment for him to be in, but Pereira seems to be making the best of a bad situation and the playing opportunities afforded to him in a competitive, elite league. For example, he is in the top 20 players in Spain for chance creation, and top by a considerable margin at Granada. He only has 2 goals and 1 assist himself though.

To be honest, he seems to be a big fish in a small pond at Granada. While I do think it is a good loan spell for one of our players (a rare thing) I think he needs another loan at a more competitive club next season. It would be one thing if Granada were genuinely fighting a relegation battle, and there was a chance for Pereira to see some kind of 'win' in the end in the form of helping his team stay up. As it is though, they look bound for the second division, lying 8 points from safety with no upturn looking likely at the moment. Losses speckled with draws, and the very odd win is the way it has gone for them this season. Their last win was in the league in early December at home to Sevilla, 2-1, Pereira scored the opener.

Not a good club for Pereira to remain at beyond this season IMO, but this season of competitive games against teams like Real Madrid, AM, Barca will give him lots of experience. Right, Granada got smashed 5-0 by Real Madrid a few weeks ago, but Pereira actually had a decent game. Anyone still reading and who might be interested in a highlights video of Pereira from that game to see roughly what he's doing in the team. Video quality isn't the best though...

To see both sides of the coin, here's an example of him having a less impressive outing recently in another loss against Espanyol, even though he got on the score-sheet with a clever free-kick. Granada in pink, video quality is better, music is not unfortunately...

All in all I think this loan spell is good for him. As for the player himself and his prospects for a starting place at United in the near future - The jury is still out, but while it is he needs to keep getting games and developing. However, if Granada get relegated this season I would argue that he'd be better off in the Championship next season than remaining in Spain. He could be a good squad option for us next season, but I'd rather see him get regular games than go back to the reserves with the odd senior appearance. As I said, there is a potential quality player for United in Pereira but just not yet.

J. Marston

Klopp would have only bottled it anyway in the final, like he always does.

Kerrydude1981

Lovely stuff

Now lets finish off Hull tomorrow night

niallo27

J. Marston wrote: »

Klopp would have only bottled it anyway in the final, like he always does.

How far the mighty have sunk.

Jayop

niallo27 wrote: »

How far the mighty have sunk.

How about that Shane Long. He'd never score!! ???

Hococop

And with that the mods breath a great sigh of relief haha

Comic Book Guy

Good win for the Liverpool B team

Lord TSC

Hococop wrote: »

And with that the mods breath a great sigh of relief haha

No kidding :pac:

Thrilled with that. Cups our to lose now. We should be beating Hull and Southampton. Very happy.

dmc17

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

Good win for the Liverpool B team

Next years team

Bret Hart

J. Marston wrote: »

Klopp would have only bottled it anyway in the final, like he always does.

Best too have saved him from the embarrassment,of a sixth final loss on the trot.

IamtheWalrus

I'd have preferred to have beaten the scum in the final but I'll take it.

Liam McPoyle

Should get by Hull ok.

The Saints will be a tough game though if we make it.

We obviously have much better players but they looked very impressive tonight, that baldy defender had a cracking game.

Could be a first trophy in his first season for Jose.

#bustedflush

#chequebookmanager

#couldntcareless.

StringerBell

Shame, would have liked to beat them in the final.

alchemist33

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

Good win for the Liverpool B team

And a poor defeat for Southampton B.

Did ye see that run by southamton, beat all premierleague teams won every game and havent conceeded a goal madness

The_Kew_Tour

Have not seen a home team play so many hoof balls since Trap v Austria.

In fairness Sputhampton A team was always going be bit better then their B team

Flint Fredstone

I can't wait for someone to come along and tell you all that you're only glory hunters for choosing Man United to get little victories over the salt of the earth Liverpool fans.

Because that seems to always happen after Liverpool get a bad result for some reason...

bangkok

Hococop wrote: »

And with that the mods breath a great sigh of relief haha

I'd say the London metropolitan police are delighted!!

jayo26

Lord TSC wrote: »

No kidding :pac:

Thrilled with that. Cups our to lose now. We should be beating Hull and Southampton. Very happy.

Ahh that's a bit ahead of yourself TSC. Tomorrow hopefully should be ok but saints in final will be no pushover they will be well up for it And of all the mid table teams to meet they will be the hardest to breakdown and have loads of pace on the break.

jayo26

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Have not seen a home team play so many hoof balls since Trap v Austria.

In fairness Sputhampton A team was always going be bit better then their B team

They were klopppasses ffs

I remember reading in the match thread after the first leg how Southampton were going to regret not scoring more, because "we're gonna stuff em at Anfield" :pac:

Digs aside though, they seem to have had a notable downturn since that draw with Sunderland a few weeks back. Agent Moyes, eh?

Tonight's game against Southampton is the second consecutive game of 4 which Liverpool have at home. You'd have to fancy them to beat Wolves in the FA Cup at the weekend, but with Chelsea next Tuesday, they could likely be on for 3 out 4 home losses in 10 days. They haven't won any competitive game at Anfield in 2017 yet.

I thought it would be Spurs or Arsenal to vacate a spot for us in the Top 4 should we get in there ourselves, but Liverpool are not safe in there at all and are now in a bad patch of form.

jayo26

jayo26 wrote: »

Ahh that's a bit ahead of yourself TSC. Tomorrow hopefully should be ok but saints in final will be no pushover they will be well up for it And of all the mid table teams to meet they will be the hardest to breakdown and have loads of pace on the break.

Agree 100%
A job to be done tomorrow and if we manage to get to the final it will be a tough game also
Let's not jump the gun like Liverpool fans have a habit of doing
Take it game by game

bucketybuck

stankratz wrote: »

Pereira has been getting plenty of games for them (17 starts, 1 sub) and is positively standing out for the most part in an awful team.

I simply cannot believe that an experience like that is worse for the player than staying at United and playing nothing but reserve games or practice games against first team players.

Its just logical, common sense that such an experience will improve him in many ways. I could be wrong, but I think I would need to be shown evidence before accepting I was wrong.

bucketybuck

I also am disappointed that we won't play Liverpool in the final, its not a trophy I rate particularly highly and I think the Liverpool factor would have increased my anticipation for the final tenfold. Pity.

Nalz

bucketybuck wrote: »

I also am disappointed that we won't play Liverpool in the final, its not a trophy I rate particularly highly and I think the Liverpool factor would have increased my anticipation for the final tenfold. Pity.

We're not there yet ffs

Tom.D.BJJ

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Take it game by game

This. 100%, this.

Southampton are very organised and very mean in defence. We also cant finish our fing dinner.

Lovely Bloke

Nalz wrote: »

We're not there yet ffs

Odds on to win the cup now though, I don't know what can be gained by not saying that?

Saying that does not make it less likely that United are going to win, that's a weird mentality.

A cup for Mourinho in his first season will be a great outcome.

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

I also am disappointed that we won't play Liverpool in the final, its not a trophy I rate particularly highly and I think the Liverpool factor would have increased my anticipation for the final tenfold. Pity.

Noway I'm delighted we not. It would of been pure drivel in here and the pub and work and everywhere for a week before hand and a week after. The game would be guaranteed sh1te too.

Liam McPoyle

stankratz wrote: »

I remember reading in the match thread after the first leg how Southampton were going to regret not scoring more, because "we're gonna stuff em at Anfield" :pac:

Digs aside though, they seem to have had a notable downturn since that draw with Sunderland a few weeks back. Agent Moyes, eh?

Tonight's game against Southampton is the second consecutive game of 4 which Liverpool have at home. You'd have to fancy them to beat Wolves in the FA Cup at the weekend, but with Chelsea next Tuesday, they could likely be on for 3 out 4 home losses in 10 days. They haven't won any competitive game at Anfield in 2017 yet.

I thought it would be Spurs or Arsenal to vacate a spot for us in the Top 4 should we get in there ourselves, but Liverpool are not safe in there at all and are now in a bad patch of form.

They looked banjaxed tonight (LFC)

Its possible that the style of play is catching up with them.

Earlier in the season they had a week off between games, lots of time to rest, between the league and the cups, since January, they are playing about twice a week.

Two more games for them in the next 6 days too.

newballsplease

stankratz wrote: »

I remember reading in the match thread after the first leg how Southampton were going to regret not scoring more, because "we're gonna stuff em at Anfield" :pac:

Digs aside though, they seem to have had a notable downturn since that draw with Sunderland a few weeks back. Agent Moyes, eh?

Tonight's game against Southampton is the second consecutive game of 4 which Liverpool have at home. You'd have to fancy them to beat Wolves in the FA Cup at the weekend, but with Chelsea next Tuesday, they could likely be on for 3 out 4 home losses in 10 days. They haven't won any competitive game at Anfield in 2017 yet.

I thought it would be Spurs or Arsenal to vacate a spot for us in the Top 4 should we get in there ourselves, but Liverpool are not safe in there at all and are now in a bad patch of form.

It would typical that they will probably beat Chelsea at home now.

niallo27

stankratz wrote: »

I remember reading in the match thread after the first leg how Southampton were going to regret not scoring more, because "we're gonna stuff em at Anfield" :pac:

Digs aside though, they seem to have had a notable downturn since that draw with Sunderland a few weeks back. Agent Moyes, eh?

Tonight's game against Southampton is the second consecutive game of 4 which Liverpool have at home. You'd have to fancy them to beat Wolves in the FA Cup at the weekend, but with Chelsea next Tuesday, they could likely be on for 3 out 4 home losses in 10 days. They haven't won any competitive game at Anfield in 2017 yet.

I thought it would be Spurs or Arsenal to vacate a spot for us in the Top 4 should we get in there ourselves, but Liverpool are not safe in there at all and are now in a bad patch of form.

Could you quote those posters as I doubt they were liverpool fans but hey make it up as you go along if you want.