Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

beno619

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Presumably it was fitness related for Mikhi anyway.

I've said it before ans I'll say it again, Lingard is a waste of a jersey.

Absolutely baffling that he was left on and our most effective creative player taken off.

He actually offered width which we lost as soon as he came off. He was poor but at least we had a bit of shape while he was on.

Dwarf.Shortage

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I agree, but think about the PACE!

No point going nowhere fast

PhlegmyMoses

gosplan wrote: »

I think, and have suspected for some time, that Mourinho is managements version of the Emperor's new clothes.

His approach is very straightforward but the success is all about the aura and the players believing in him.

I'm not saying he's suddenly a bad manager but I think the thing that made him really special was the fact that everyone thought he was special.

This just isn't Mourinho's fault tbh. Too many passengers in the side, nobody in good form barring De Gea for the last couple of seasons.

Hococop

If we end up trashing them mid week I'll be even more pissed, which sounds crazy to say

bucketybuck

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This just isn't Mourinho's fault tbh.

You mean it isn't his fault Rashford missed when through on goal? Or that Zlatan couldn't finish when past the keeper?

Nah, despite us playing far better than last season the manager is doing crap, lets get rid and get somebody else in. I'd love to hear who we should get though?

Pyjamarama

stankratz wrote: »

Let those knees jerk away there folks.

Is it knee jerk at the end of November?

Lord TSC

I know I could basically copy/paste this comment by now. But here goes.

I don't blame Jose for **** all of that. At a push, I'd consent that his subs came a bit later. But at the same time, the team were utterly dominating West Ham in the first half, and should have been able to in the second too. Much like the previous times its happened, I don't blame him when we conceed a quick goal. That is ENTIRELY the players' fault, and ****s up whatever gameplan the manager was hoping to start the game with.

As Buck said, you can't blame Jose for the lack of finishing right now. He's setting up the tactics, the tactics are working, but he can't put the ball into the back of the net for the players.

We have a massive issue with finishing chances. We're looking really, really good for large chunks of games, getting chance after chance, but they can't get the ball into the net.

Hopefully thats something that will be addressed in transfer windows.

edgecutter

bucketybuck wrote: »

You mean it isn't his fault Rashford missed when through on goal? Or that Zlatan couldn't finish when past the keeper?

Nah, despite us playing far better than last season the manager is doing crap, lets get rid and get somebody else in. I'd love to hear who we should get though?

Gotta agree, Jose made errors with the line up, but that team should have had their game sown up at half time. Rashford misses a sitter, the team knows not to give fouls around the penalty area and Lingaard lazily trips Payet and Ibra is too lazy to track the runner. You can't blame Jose for this.

54and56

bucketybuck wrote: »

You mean it isn't his fault Rashford missed when through on goal? Or that Zlatan couldn't finish when past the keeper?

Nah, despite us playing far better than last season the manager is doing crap, lets get rid and get somebody else in. I'd love to hear who we should get though?

You need an internationally proven manager with PL experience who has a track record of playing football the way the Old Trafford faithful like it to be played.

Big Sam is immediately available and the only man for the job.

edgecutter

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

You need an internationally proven manager with PL experience who has a track record of playing football the way the Old Trafford faithful like it to be played.

Big Sam is immediately available and the only man for the job.

Stop being sarcastic, we should be on the phone for Tony Pulis.

54and56

edgecutter wrote: »

Ibra is too lazy to track the runner. You can't blame Jose for this.

Jose handpicked 35 year old Ibra well past his physical best to join the team.

Who do you think is to blame when a 35 year old plays like a 35 year old?

gosplan

Of course you can ... and should ... blame Jose.

Fergie's team wasn't just always packed with better defenders and better finishers.

He inspired them to be better.

His late goal phenomenon wasn't about individual skill or tactical changes but rather group belief.

Jose is not getting the best out of this group. His fault.

Needing to go back to the market is not an excuse, especially after the summer.

I'm not knocking Utd, don't particularly want to see them fail or anything but the idea that none of the on-pitch mistakes are on Jose is plain wrong IMO.

PhlegmyMoses

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

You need an internationally proven manager with PL experience who has a track record of playing football the way the Old Trafford faithful like it to be played.

Big Sam is immediately available and the only man for the job.

If you were funny this would at least be less sad of an endeavour.

gosplan

With the current slump Atletico are having, Simeone could be thinking it's time to move on and stop pissing into the wind in terms of budget and resources.

Utd would be mad not to move on him.

gosplan

double post

SlickRic

If you're blaming José for that, you're not watching IMO.

He can't stick it in the net for them. He can't jump for Ibra for West Ham's goal.

It's his fault he left Lingard on and took Mata off. That's it.

I'm not saying José will ultimately get it right, but it's criminal that the players aren't winning games. He can go on about opposition keepers being MOTM all he wants, but the finishing isn't good enough. The huge majority of Randolph's saves were routine.

It's more the players than it is the management.

jayo26

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Jose handpicked 35 year old Ibra well past his physical best to join the team.

Who do you think is to blame when a 35 year old plays like a 35 year old?

How many 35 year olds do you know that are scoring 9 goals in the first third of a season for their club?? Ibra is not the the problem.

bucketybuck

jayo26 wrote: »

Ibra is not the the problem.

He kinda is. Its still wrong to blame Jose for picking him though because the alternatives aren't doing the business either.

PhlegmyMoses

gosplan wrote: »

Of course you can ... and should ... blame Jose.

Fergie's team wasn't just always packed with better defenders and better finishers.

He inspired them to be better.

His late goal phenomenon wasn't about individual skill or tactical changes but rather group belief.

Jose is not getting the best out of this group. His fault.

Needing to go back to the market is not an excuse, especially after the summer.

I'm not knocking Utd, don't particularly want to see them fail or anything but the idea that none of the on-pitch mistakes are on Jose is plain wrong IMO.

I think you're missing the point though. Many of these players have traversed the Moyes, LVG, and now Mourinho, eras and they couldnt get it together. I can't tell you the last time that one of our players was truly on fire and lighting things up for a sustained period, barring DDG. And your argument goes both ways. Surely at least a few of the players would be able to battle past mediocre tactics and management (hypothetically) , and work their way into some consistent form?

Comparing anybody to Ferguson is just lunacy tbh, because not one other manager that most here could say they were alive and watching football for was able to get performances out of the quality of player that Ferguson could. That was his style of management, it is not Mourinho's, or anybody else's for that matter. The club is in a malaise and the deadwood needs to be cleared out root and branch. I honestly think that the first thing that needs to be on the agenda for Mourinho is a new striker. We also need wingers. Enough of this nonsense of sticking a striker out there, or a number 10 or a mediocre youth product, and hoping for the best.

billyhead

Mourinho should stay on. Were just missing that world class striker aka in the mould of Aguero who will score a min 25 goals a season. Greizmann would be the answer but would he want to come. It would require a bigger deal then Pogbas.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

If you're blaming José for that, you're not watching IMO.

He can't stick it in the net for them. He can't jump for Ibra for West Ham's goal.

It's his fault he left Lingard on and took Mata off. That's it.

I'm not saying José will ultimately get it right, but it's criminal that the players aren't winning games. He can go on about opposition keepers being MOTM all he wants, but the finishing isn't good enough. The huge majority of Randolph's saves were routine.

It's more the players than it is the management.

His team selection was wrong. That is Jose's fault. Lingard should bit have started in the first place

edgecutter

M!Ck^ wrote: »

His team selection was wrong. That is Jose's fault. Lingard should bit have started in the first place

That team should still be wiping the floor against an extremely poor West Ham. The players have failed to deliver once again and continue to be paid obscene amounts of money.

Jose can't always shoulder the blame, but i feel he needs to move to a 433 formation to get us going a bit more.

edgecutter

billyhead wrote: »

Mourinho should stay on. Were just missing that world class striker aka in the mould of Aguero who will score a min 25 goals a season. Greizmann would be the answer but would he want to come. It would require a bigger deal then Pogbas.

We need a new right back, possible CB and a midfielder in the mould of Carrick as well. The team just doesn't have the right players at the moment and that is down to terrible transfer windows by LVG and Moyes.

54and56

Bringing Ibra to the club was a massive vanity project mistake by Jose. Sure he's scoring some goals but at what cost? He's keeping Rashford (a guy with massive potential which needs to be cultivated) out of the #9 spot, he doesn't press, slows up play and is a liability (as demonstrated today) in defence at set pieces.

Jose is acting like a guy on the edge of a nervous breakdown and the players can see it. It's always someone elses fault. Not very inspiring. If they turn on him like other teams have in the past the result could be catastrophic unless its before the end of the January transfer window and a new manager can get some genuinely talented and highly motivated players in to strengthen the squad. If they turn on him after the January transfer window who knows how bad things could get?

the whole year inn

jayo26 wrote: »

How many 35 year olds do you know that are scoring 9 goals in the first third of a season for their club?? Ibra is not the the problem.

Not Ibrah cos hes only scored 7.

billyhead

edgecutter wrote: »

We need a new right back, possible CB and a midfielder in the mould of Carrick as well. The team just doesn't have the right players at the moment and that is down to terrible transfer windows by LVG and Moyes.

That Victor Lindegof chap from Benfica can play both center and right back and if we go back in for Matuidi he could covers the Carrick role.

deaddonkey15

I think the criticism of Ibrahimovic is a bit over the top. His finishing, which has been poor lately, isn't really something that goes with age. If we create the right chances there isn't many players I'd rather have in the box to get on the end of them.

Robson99

edgecutter wrote: »

We need a new right back, possible CB and a midfielder in the mould of Carrick as well. The team just doesn't have the right players at the moment and that is down to terrible transfer windows by LVG and Moyes.

Above any position I dont think right back is the problem. But the rest I would agree totally with. We need an experienced head t the back. A Godin or Chilenni . Can see Jose going for a makele /Kante type player in th summer and Grizeman
Those to make way will probably be Darmian, Rojo, Bastian, young, Rooney and Fellani

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

He kinda is. Its still wrong to blame Jose for picking him though because the alternatives aren't doing the business either.

I dont think he is the problem as in we are 8 points off forth. Yeh he aint perfect but he is still one of the top scorers in the division. Jesse was a bigger problem today and other players inability to put away half a chance.

billyhead

Robson99 wrote: »

Above any position I dont think right back is the problem. But the rest I would agree totally with. We need an experienced head t the back. A Godin or Chilenni . Can see Jose going for a makele /Kante type player in th summer and Grizeman
Those to make way will probably be Darmian, Rojo, Bastian, young, Rooney and Fellani

Veratti would be ideal for the midfield position. Imagine signing him and Greizmann. One can only dream

LeeJM

So in the thread at the moment we have a guy who was banned recently and back to his "I wanna be taken seriously, heres my opinion" schtick and an Arsenal fan saying Mourinho is sh t and we should dump him for Simone........


I think any Utd fan who cant see the progress we have and continue to make under Jose is just being anti Jose. Its night and day between this seasons matches and the previous 2 campaigns. Some posters are just embarrassing themselves with their reactions to our results.


Jose isnt going anywhere anytime soon. Bailly is a long term signing. Pogba is a long term signing. Shaw is being molded into a Jose player. Same as Mkhitaryan. Lingard is being given chances to show either he belongs or he will be cut with the rest of the rubbish. Rojo has stepped up under Jose. Jones has come back in and been damn good. Smalling has proven himself to be unable to cope under pressure. Blind and Fellaini have proven themselves as the ultimate squad players, never complaining no matter the role. Valencia seems to have shut up all the doubters. Ander has looked like a Captain in the making under Jose. If you dont think this squad needs extensive work both in a clearing out sense and with a change in their mentality then you are very naive. Some of these players were happy to under perform under 2 managers and then see them sacked. They dont give a monkeys if they finish first or eighth! Jose is changing this but its gonna take time. If you dont like Jose, tough! Hes our manager and like it our not he is gonna bring us back to the top even if he pi$$es off some of the fans in the process. Its not always gonna be pretty but I have absolute faith that he is the man to bring us back.

54and56

jayo26 wrote: »

I dont think he is the problem as in we are 8 points off forth. Yeh he aint perfect but he is still one of the top scorers in the division. Jesse was a bigger problem today and other players inability to put away half a chance.

If a soon to be 35 year old striker joined any other "major" club as their main striker you'd laugh at the idea and rightly so.

Dwarf.Shortage

It's always darkest before the dawn, we are on the right trajectory here.

J. Marston

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

It's always darkest before the dawn, we are on the right trajectory here.

Next year?

The_Kew_Tour

Can people honestly say we are just the same to watch as last season?

Dwarf.Shortage

J. Marston wrote: »

Next year?

Three seasons without a premier league, it only feels like a long time because it's Manchester United.

titan18

Carrick needs to play every PL game. Without him, we're not the same, drop him for Europa League, League Cup, FA Cup games, but for PL, he has to start imo

secman

stankratz wrote: »

Let those knees jerk away there folks.

Keep the head firmly in the sand....... folks

nullzero

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can people honestly say we are just the same to watch as last season?

No but the net result has turned out to be much the same which is frustrating in the extreme.

54and56

LeeJM wrote: »

So in the thread at the moment we have a guy who was banned recently and back to his "I wanna be taken seriously, heres my opinion" schtick and an Arsenal fan saying Mourinho is sh t and we should dump him for Simone........


I think any Utd fan who cant see the progress we have and continue to make under Jose is just being anti Jose. Its night and day between this seasons matches and the previous 2 campaigns. Some posters are just embarrassing themselves with their reactions to our results.


Jose isnt going anywhere anytime soon. Bailly is a long term signing. Pogba is a long term signing. Shaw is being molded into a Jose player. Same as Mkhitaryan. Lingard is being given chances to show either he belongs or he will be cut with the rest of the rubbish. Rojo has stepped up under Jose. Jones has come back in and been damn good. Smalling has proven himself to be unable to cope under pressure. Blind and Fellaini have proven themselves as the ultimate squad players, never complaining no matter the role. Valencia seems to have shut up all the doubters. Ander has looked like a Captain in the making under Jose. If you dont think this squad needs extensive work both in a clearing out sense and with a change in their mentality then you are very naive. Some of these players were happy to under perform under 2 managers and then see them sacked. They dont give a monkeys if they finish first or eighth! Jose is changing this but its gonna take time. If you dont like Jose, tough! Hes our manager and like it our not he is gonna bring us back to the top even if he pi$$es off some of the fans in the process. Its not always gonna be pretty but I have absolute faith that he is the man to bring us back.

sky88

titan18 wrote: »

Carrick needs to play every PL game. Without him, we're not the same, drop him for Europa League, League Cup, FA Cup games, but for PL, he has to start imo

What difference would Carrick make today, bad finishing and good goalkeeping kept us from scoring.

I was always in the camp of not wanting Jose but he can't be blamedone for continuing bad finishing from all players. Yes he's done some mistakes today lingard and substitutionsee but I don't think it's him and the players need to look at themselves

gosplan

LeeJM wrote: »

So in the thread at the moment we have a guy who was banned recently and back to his "I wanna be taken seriously, heres my opinion" schtick and an Arsenal fan saying Mourinho is sh t and we should dump him for Simone........


I think any Utd fan who cant see the progress we have and continue to make under Jose is just being anti Jose. Its night and day between this seasons matches and the previous 2 campaigns. Some posters are just embarrassing themselves with their reactions to our results.


Jose isnt going anywhere anytime soon. Bailly is a long term signing. Pogba is a long term signing. Shaw is being molded into a Jose player. Same as Mkhitaryan. Lingard is being given chances to show either he belongs or he will be cut with the rest of the rubbish. Rojo has stepped up under Jose. Jones has come back in and been damn good. Smalling has proven himself to be unable to cope under pressure. Blind and Fellaini have proven themselves as the ultimate squad players, never complaining no matter the role. Valencia seems to have shut up all the doubters. Ander has looked like a Captain in the making under Jose. If you dont think this squad needs extensive work both in a clearing out sense and with a change in their mentality then you are very naive. Some of these players were happy to under perform under 2 managers and then see them sacked. They dont give a monkeys if they finish first or eighth! Jose is changing this but its gonna take time. If you dont like Jose, tough! Hes our manager and like it our not he is gonna bring us back to the top even if he pi$$es off some of the fans in the process. Its not always gonna be pretty but I have absolute faith that he is the man to bring us back.

What does me being an Arsenal fan have to do with anything?

Anyway, you speak as though it's all so obvious but the whole argument you're putting forward is dependant on Jose doing 'long term'.

Robson99

billyhead wrote: »

Veratti would be ideal for the midfield position. Imagine signing him and Greizmann. One can only dream

He shud be giving mensah a chance there but for mensah own sake he might be better off not being thrown in at the deep end.
Most of the other younger players seem to have gone backwards since Murhino came in. That is one major criticism of Murhino. Where fergie progressed and developed youth Murhino seems unable to do so

magnumbud

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can people honestly say we are just the same to watch as last season?

Regarless of the performance the results dont lie in 10 games we have only won 2 leaving us 8 points off of top 4 chasing 4 teams who are picking up wins even though they have had dips in form we aren't scoring enough and are conceding sloppy goals. Only 8 teams have had a worse run than us in that period. Its a results game at this rate we will struggle to get CL football next season. Its all well and good saying its only a matter of time that the results match the performances but week by week we drop more points againts teams we should be beating especially at home.

Iused2likebusts

Mentioned it in the match thread but I think the big mistake Jose has made is the teams he is picking for all the midweek cup games. He has consistently picked strong teams in all those games and the league form.is clearly suffering because of it. 3 wins from 3 at the start of the season before the midweek games kicked in.

BMMachine

but seriously guys, did you win that draw? Someone on the match thread said it was a win-draw cos Pogba got an assist (and threw a few shapes!) but I think it was a draw-draw because West Ham should have had a penalty, but there is an argument that its a lose-draw because it was at home?

Im not an expert on the formula but quite a few Irish Manchester United fans that post on this forum have a very good understanding of what makes a win-draw, draw-draw and a lose-draw so I will defer the answer to you guys.

LeeJM

gosplan wrote: »

LeeJM wrote: »

So in the thread at the moment we have a guy who was banned recently and back to his "I wanna be taken seriously, heres my opinion" schtick and an Arsenal fan saying Mourinho is sh t and we should dump him for Simone........


I think any Utd fan who cant see the progress we have and continue to make under Jose is just being anti Jose. Its night and day between this seasons matches and the previous 2 campaigns. Some posters are just embarrassing themselves with their reactions to our results.


Jose isnt going anywhere anytime soon. Bailly is a long term signing. Pogba is a long term signing. Shaw is being molded into a Jose player. Same as Mkhitaryan. Lingard is being given chances to show either he belongs or he will be cut with the rest of the rubbish. Rojo has stepped up under Jose. Jones has come back in and been damn good. Smalling has proven himself to be unable to cope under pressure. Blind and Fellaini have proven themselves as the ultimate squad players, never complaining no matter the role. Valencia seems to have shut up all the doubters. Ander has looked like a Captain in the making under Jose. If you dont think this squad needs extensive work both in a clearing out sense and with a change in their mentality then you are very naive. Some of these players were happy to under perform under 2 managers and then see them sacked. They dont give a monkeys if they finish first or eighth! Jose is changing this but its gonna take time. If you dont like Jose, tough! Hes our manager and like it our not he is gonna bring us back to the top even if he pi$es off some of the fans in the process. Its not always gonna be pretty but I have absolute faith that he is the man to bring us back.

What does me being an Arsenal fan have to do with anything?

Anyway, you speak as though it's all so obvious but the whole argument you're putting forward is dependant on Jose doing 'long term'.

And your whole argument is dependent on Jose being a prick. To me it is obvious and Jose will be here long term IMO. I know people shout 3 years max and whatever but I do think Jose lasts at least 5 seasons with Utd. He is a proven winner and he is the man capable of weeding out all the weak players who are just happy to be there. Personally I dont care if you are from Manchester or Galway or Tokyo and whether you are an academy graduate or cost 120 million, if you arent good enough then I have faith in Jose replacing you with somebody who is. If people want instant success thats their problem. Jose will deliver and will deliver plenty of silverware once he is given time.

bucketybuck

magnumbud wrote: »

Regarless of the performance the results dont lie

Thats the mentality that saw many posters defending Van Gaal for 2 years.

PhlegmyMoses

BMMachine wrote: »

but seriously guys, did you win that draw? Someone on the match thread said it was a win-draw cos Pogba got an assist (and threw a few shapes!) but I think it was a draw-draw because West Ham should have had a penalty, but there is an argument that its a lose-draw because it was at home?

Im not an expert on the formula but quite a few Irish Manchester United fans that post on this forum have a very good understanding of what makes a win-draw, draw-draw and a lose-draw so I will defer the answer to you guys.

This is just boring and you'd be crying if it was in the Liverpool thead.

Flint Fredstone

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

This is just boring and you'd be crying if it was in the Liverpool thead.

Ah leave him be. He has to come in for his "little victory"