Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

magnumbud

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats the mentality that saw many posters defending Van Gaal for 2 years.

No its the mentality that you don't win the league or get top 4 by performance that lead to 2 wins in 10. People need to stop comparing him to lvg. Lvg is gone and rightly so but if jose fails to get top 4 which game by game looks increasingly likely he will be gone too because its probably a requirement ,as it was for both previous managers ,if not it should be to get cl football

Got to call out conceding another goal inside the first few minutes of a game
Another sign of how brittle when we are when attacked

We are playing some good football as I have always said but that's in an an attacking sense

Three biggest issues are glaring;
Jose still doesn't know what his best 11 are. We are nearly into December.
We have an inability to Defend a lead
Putting the ball in the net is a huge problem.
Last three PL games we have acrued a record number of chances with only 3 goals I think

Issues with player mentality also.
The level of indiscipline shown by lingard was hair pulling level of frustration hardly two minutes into a match to give away such a needless freekick outside the penalty area.

If Jose sticks by his theory that players need to work hard in defence lingard has consistently shown he's not up to the task but he keeps picking him in crucial games

Most annoyed I have been with Utd in a very long time.

Fact is West Ham nearly snatched a win in the end

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

I wonder why people think that about you?



Oh, now I remember...

Please do tell me how my comment is not accurate, with the squad at his disposal currently sitting outside the top 4, currently presiding over our worst start in PL era.

It's getting ridiculous how people are blind to criticising the manager, hell bent on defending him in every scenario.

It's not good enough. Not even appearing for his post match obligations to explain to the fans what is happening. Simply not good enough by any measure.

SlickRic

M!Ck^ wrote: »

His team selection was wrong. That is Jose's fault. Lingard should bit have started in the first place

Maybe. But the team he put out still outplayed the opposition but couldn't score more than one, and let in a set piece goal (which had nothing to do with Lingard).

I don't see how the blame is José's just because Lingard was there. Even if that was the wrong decision (i.e. there were better options), the team should still have won.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Maybe. But the team he put out still outplayed the opposition but couldn't score more than one, and let in a set piece goal (which had nothing to do with Lingard).

I don't see how the blame is José's just because Lingard was there. Even if that was the wrong decision (i.e. there were better options), the team should still have won.

It had everything to do with lingard
He gave a stupid free kick away

TheDoc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Can people honestly say we are just the same to watch as last season?

Some of us arnt overly caring about the performance you know.

Good performances tend to go hand in hand with results as they continue and the teams build cohesion

Of course this team is playing better and of course there is good signs. But all of that means sweet fa when your dropping points

Sorry but playing "nice" and winning **** all is for Arsenal fans. That ain't us

Maybe I used all my positivity on Moyes and Van Gaal. Can't put up with poor results like this consistently. They happen sure, but it's a pattern with this team for three years now.

I literally am just waiting for Sunderland where we drop points and see people defend it as progress.

Flint Fredstone

TheDoc wrote: »

Sorry but playing "nice" and winning **** all is for Arsenal fans. That ain't us

It's better than playing sh*t and winning f*ck all.

secman

It's pretty obvious that Mourinho is not getting anything near the best from the squad, young players have definitely regressed, his own discipline is hardly leading by example. He doesn't know his best 11, making odd team selections, couldnt quite believe today's selection. Chasing a win today and he puts Fellaini on !

But we are to put blind faith in the Special Once guy.

Headshot

TheDoc wrote: »

Please do tell me how my comment is not accurate, with the squad at his disposal currently sitting outside the top 4, currently presiding over our worst start in PL era.

It's getting ridiculous how people are blind to criticising the manager, hell bent on defending him in every scenario.

It's not good enough. Not even appearing for his post match obligations to explain to the fans what is happening. Simply not good enough by any measure.

Im surprised by you Doc. I thought you would have more common sense

Utd are by far from the finish article. It's a huge job for Jose, the biggest of his carrier to turn a club around that's been under invested for years under Fergie and terrible appointments in Moyes and LVG.

Jose should of been given the job straight of the bat and we wouldn't be in this mess now.

I've been happy with Jose, he's team building is going well. Utd will need further transfer windows to get things right. Jose isnt a miracle worker, alot of the players at the club aren't simple good enough.

The team is really playing some nice stuff at times too. It's quite refreshing and puts the Jose negative rubbish to bed for me.

Jose has my full backing even if we dont get CL football. I will reserve my judgment for next season.

TheDoc

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

It's better than playing sh*t and winning f*ck all.

Indeed. But last time I checked I was a United fan, not a West Brom supporter

Flint Fredstone

TheDoc wrote: »

Indeed. But last time I checked I was a United fan, not a West Brom supporter

Last time I checked we've been pretty sh*t for a few years.

rob316

Ed woodward, that is United's major problem. The guy knows nothing about football absolutely nothing. Disastrous transfers, obscene fees and poor choices of managers. He was desperate enough and stupid enough to hire jose after the Chelsea debacle.

I constantly see the managers and players been blamed but he doesn't seem to get the finger pointed at him.

He gets credited for big signings but having huge resources makes his job relatively easy.

Harry Palmr

rob316 wrote: »

Ed woodward, that is United's major problem. The guy knows nothing about football absolutely nothing. Disastrous transfers, obscene fees and poor choices of managers. He was desperate enough and stupid enough to hire jose after the Chelsea debacle.

I constantly see the managers and players been blamed but he doesn't seem to get the finger pointed at him.

He gets credited for big signings but having huge resources makes his job relatively easy.

Woodward's moneyball strategy seems to be "we've got loads of money, lets have a ball. Whey-hey!"

TheDoc

Headshot wrote: »

Im surprised by you Doc. I thought you would have more common sense

Utd are by far from the finish article. It's a huge job for Jose, the biggest of his carrier to turn a club around that's been under invested for years under Fergie and terrible appointments in Moyes and LVG.

Jose should of been given the job straight of the bat and we wouldn't be in this mess now.

I've been happy with Jose, he's team building is going well. Utd will need further transfer windows to get things right. Jose isnt a miracle worker, alot of the players at the club aren't simple good enough.

The team is really playing some nice stuff at times too. It's quite refreshing and puts the Jose negative rubbish to bed for me.

Jose has my full backing even if we dont get CL football. I will reserve my judgment for next season.

He has my backing too. That doesn't mean I can't point out discomfort with his scorched earth policy , getting excuses in early about needing loads of transfer windows and what I feel is some serious mismanagement of the squad.

Wether he thinks the players are good enough or his or whatever. His obligation is to make them better then the sum of their parts.

like even his sending off today. Brain dead stuff. Knows he's a marked man and any manager with his experience is just stupid getting sent off AGAIN for what was an innocuous decision anyway. Just the classic "manager under pressure" reaction which is ridiculous all things considered.

He has massive support in his role,me included, but my god he needs to get a grip on himself

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Jose still doesn't know what his best 11 are. We are nearly into December.

Does this even mean much? Hasn't found his best eleven? Does that mean he should just pick an 11 and stick with it no matter what?

The reason we haven't found a consistent eleven is a mixture of too many players around the same level of quality and too many of those players not performing consistently. I have little doubt that if we had 11 players doing well then we would know our best 11, but we don't. You can blame the manager for that if you want, but like in many areas we need to look at the players as well.

deaddonkey15

rob316 wrote: »

Ed woodward, that is United's major problem. The guy knows nothing about football absolutely nothing. Disastrous transfers, obscene fees and poor choices of managers. He was desperate enough and stupid enough to hire jose after the Chelsea debacle.

I constantly see the managers and players been blamed but he doesn't seem to get the finger pointed at him.

He gets credited for big signings but having huge resources makes his job relatively easy.

Always someone who pops up and blames it all on Woodword. He's bringing huge money into the club. He is bringing top players into the club and he has brought 2 top managers into the club. It's not his fault that incredibly successful managers/players like LVG, Di Maria, Falcao, Schweinsteiger, turned out to be sh*t. No one was complaining when these players were brought in. The only criticism I have of him is he didn't sack LVG soon enough.

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Does this even mean much? Hasn't found his best eleven? Does that mean he should just pick an 11 and stick with it no matter what?

The reason we haven't found a consistent eleven is a mixture of too many players around the same level of quality and too many of those players not performing consistently. I have little doubt that if we had 11 players doing well then we would know our best 11, but we don't. You can blame the manager for that if you want, but like in many areas we need to look at the players as well.

Yes, yes I do
You pick your best 11 on paper for the most important games and stop chopping them up every next game
Let them play together consistently in a run of games without disruption
Cannot expect to get the best out of these players if you don't let them play week in week out

You let the rest play the lesser games such as cup ties / Europa league

bucketybuck

secman wrote: »

making odd team selections,

Bull****. Team selections have been fine, in the vast majority of games fans have been perfectly happy with the team selections when announced pre-game, you can see that from match threads and various commentry. Even today you won't find dozens of posts pre-game crying about the selection of Lingard.

How soon we forget last year and the various baffling Van Gaal selections that depressed fans before the game had even kicked off. No, the team selections have been perfectly fine and in the main have proven to be the correct choices.

TheDoc wrote: »

His obligation is to make them better then the sum of their parts.

Are we not a better team than last year?

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Yes, yes I do
You pick your best 11 on paper for the most important games and stop chopping them up every next game
Let them play together consistently in a run of games without disruption
Cannot expect to get the best out of these players if you don't let them play week in week out

You let the rest play the lesser games such as cup ties / Europa league

What eleven then? Because I guarantee that had he picked an eleven and stuck with it we would be criticising him right now for playing out of form players. Sticking with his eleven would probably have meant Rooney playing every game despite his horrible form, the same for Martial, Felliani playing constantly despite his limitations.

We don't have a best 11 on paper, and thats because despite giving chances to most players very few of them have stepped up to nail down a place. Again, thats on the players.

secman

bucketybuck wrote: »

Are we not a better team than last year?

One would expect us to be after the signings we made but results wise we are worse off after first 13 games of the previous 3 seasons. The football is much better on the eye, no doubt about that , but we are 6th and losing ground more and more each week, that's the problem in a nutshell.

Rossi IRL

Watching the game there on Sky, it at half time.

Thought Pogba fully deserved his yellow.

Thought the peno should on Rojo would of been very harsh

bangkok

Disaster of a result today...top 4 finish getting further and further away. Will be a disaster if we don't get champions league. Adidas deal will be down 21m a year if we don't get it

bucketybuck

secman wrote: »

The football is much better on the eye, no doubt about that , but we are 6th and losing ground more and more each week, that's the problem in a nutshell.

Forget this "better on the eye" guff, we are playing better full stop and anybody that can't see that and who just wants to get hung up on the results really isn't seeing the bigger picture.

A bit of good old fashioned luck could easily have seen 2/3 of those dozens of chances finished to the net and the team 6/7 points better off and in a very respectable position. And in that scenario many of those people crying would instead be happy with how things are going, happy despite the only damn difference being a few milliseconds here and there where a player finished a shot better.

Eventually those chances will start going in, we will finally get a bit of luck and despite nothing else changing everybody will think things are great again. Way of the world.

secman

Guff ! I agreed that the football is better, but it's only at a level expected tbh, problem is we are falling further behind every week . Managers indiscipline is not acceptable.

Rayne Wooney

It's just unbelievable at this stage. You have the best free kick taker in the world and the most lethal player in the air in the world on the pitch and Lingard gives away a free kick in possibly the best position for Payet in the first minute. Rashford and Ibra miss sitters.

How does the europa league have anything to do with the above?

beno619

secman wrote: »

It's pretty obvious that Mourinho is not getting anything near the best from the squad, young players have definitely regressed, his own discipline is hardly leading by example. He doesn't know his best 11, making odd team selections, couldnt quite believe today's selection. Chasing a win today and he puts Fellaini on !

But we are to put blind faith in the Special Once guy.

A tactic deployed by just about every manager in the game.

There was nothing wrong with bringing on the big man the issue was taking off the supply or not having a winger on the pitch to get some crosses into him.

secman

beno619 wrote: »

A tactic deployed by just about every manager in the game.
.

From about 6th place down, except Bournemouth.

bucketybuck

secman wrote: »

From about 6th place down, except Bournemouth.

Didn't we see Vincent Kompany thrown up front for City recently? Guess that doesn't count.

Trigger

Suppose all the times the Fergie threw John o shea, Ferdinand, Brown etc up top don't count either. Nope it's Jose.. Negative manager. Long ball park the bus merchant. Don't mind the previous 85 mins of attacking intent.

jayo26

the whole year inn wrote: »

Not Ibrah cos hes only scored 7.

Yep ibra he has 7 in league 1 in Europe and 1 in community shield 7+1+1=9

Cantona's Collars

astradave wrote: »

Suppose all the times the Fergie threw John o shea, Ferdinand, Brown etc up top don't count either. Nope it's Jose.. Negative manager. Long ball park the bus merchant. Don't mind the previous 85 mins of attacking intent.

People can have very short and selective memories. When we first won the EPL we saw Bruce play up top against Sheffield Wednesday, that wasn't the first or last time the most successful manager in the game stuck a CB up top to try get a goal.
Have they suddenly forgotten LVG and his pass it sideways and back even if we are drawing or losing a game in the dying minutes? I know what I'd rather see.

secman

Last season only one side averaged 2 points per game over the season, at the moment there are 4 sides doing it. If we win 6 on the trot we will be the 5th side averaging 2 per game.... but alas we can't do one on the trot

Leroy42

Deeply worrying result. Jose sideline antics are at best doing no good at all and are probably causing harm.

Why he didn't go with the Thursday team again is beyond me. The team is crying out for some momentum, we get a great result on Thursday and he changes the team. They can't be tired. And even if they are, let them have the Cup game off.

Instead he sticks them on the bench so that neither Rooney of Micky got a real rest anyway. Baffling. We needed those 3 points to start to build something and instead of building on the great feeling after EL game we now further behind than we were.

And he refusal to face the press afterwards. Get a grip of yourself. You owe it to the team and the fans to face up to the facts, not send out your lacky. Have a bit of courage for feck's sake.

Yes we missed some chances, but this wasn't the luckless display as against Burnley. WH could have won it, we got lucky not to concede a penalty for example. After the Chelsea early goal you would think that those errors would be stamped out. Get out, turn on and be prepared. Instead we are chasing a game right from the off again. That sits directly with the manager.

Of course Jose is not to blame for the misses, but there is a lot he is to blame for.

Worrying times for MU. This really could go either way, but we are locked into this now and have to go with it wherever it leads us. Hopefully they start to click, but this is an awful WH team with little attack and a poor defence and we couldn't crack them at home on the back of a confidence building win in Europe.

buckfasterer

Spied this on bargain alerts. Half price jerseys till 12pm. €37.50 ain't bad now. A nice way to brighten up this ****e Monday morning.

http://www.elverys.ie/elverys/en/Elverys/Football/Premier-League/Man-Utd/adidas-Man-United-2016-17-Home-Jersey%2C-Red/p/000000001062543003

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

Are we not a better team than last year?

Well how do we want to quantify it.

So we all "feel" the team is playing better and looks like something will click?

Yet the table and points accrued don't lie, worst start to a campaign in PL era. That really needs to sink in a bit.

We have a Van Gaal squad, put four quality signings on top, and are now WORSE of then under Moyes or Van Gaal at the same point.

I'm sorry but the team playing better in parts, and us hoping something clicks, doesn't excuse what has been a regression. Plain and simple.

I do feel bad for Mourinho a bit, as the draws at home are a bit of a freak and those results being victories would have us in a totally different landscape.

But for consistency, most of you didn't buy that argument when I put it to you under Moyes and his spell that really started turning the screw and I was in the minority, so while ok cool, people can change their minds, that it is now looking to be the main defence and point of optimism is just a bit weird and strange.

Of course the manager isn't responsible for players failing to hit the net, but we know where the buck stops. And maybe with some better man management and squad management, we would have more viable options and a more cohesive team.

Again, I'll point out how a 50m striker was left out of the squad yesterday. An asset you expect a manager to be making the most off.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

TheDoc wrote: »

Well how do we want to quantify it.

So we all "feel" the team is playing better and looks like something will click?

Yet the table and points accrued don't lie, worst start to a campaign in PL era. That really needs to sink in a bit.

We have a Van Gaal squad, put four quality signings on top, and are now WORSE of then under Moyes or Van Gaal at the same point.

I'm sorry but the team playing better in parts, and us hoping something clicks, doesn't excuse what has been a regression. Plain and simple.

I do feel bad for Mourinho a bit, as the draws at home are a bit of a freak and those results being victories would have us in a totally different landscape.

But for consistency, most of you didn't buy that argument when I put it to you under Moyes and his spell that really started turning the screw and I was in the minority, so while ok cool, people can change their minds, that it is now looking to be the main defence and point of optimism is just a bit weird and strange.

Of course the manager isn't responsible for players failing to hit the net, but we know where the buck stops. And maybe with some better man management and squad management, we would have more viable options and a more cohesive team.

Again, I'll point out how a 50m striker was left out of the squad yesterday. An asset you expect a manager to be making the most off.

Who's that?

TheDoc

Leroy42 wrote: »

And he refusal to face the press afterwards. Get a grip of yourself. You owe it to the team and the fans to face up to the facts, not send out your lacky. Have a bit of courage for feck's sake.

That is really bugging me. Acting petulant like it's some conspiracy against him. He's such a freak. Officials have already being having a field day with us since Fergie left, and not we have the enemy number 1 of officials and refs. You could see the little smile on the 4th official when Mourinho booted the bottle, knowing exactly what was coming next. So ridiculous. How he can be cracking under pressure this early in his reign is deeply concerning.

Van Gaal faced up to everyone through much more pressured and tough times. No one is really turning the screw into Mourinho yet and won't be for some time. But his behaviour is comical at times, and this craic of ignoring the press, the conduit to get a message to your fans, is extremely frustrating.

But then hardly a surprise, these are the antics that had him overlooked for the job first time round.

He is such a difficult individual for me to like at all. Takes so much effort and energy to support him as United manager.

TheDoc

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Who's that?

The 50m striker? Martial

bucketybuck

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Who's that?

I assume he means 50m Anthony Martial, who has been ****e all season.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

But for consistency, most of you didn't buy that argument when I put it to you under Moyes and his spell that really started turning the screw and I was in the minority, so while ok cool, people can change their minds, that it is now looking to be the main defence and point of optimism is just a bit weird and strange.

What are you even talking about?

crkball6

TheDoc wrote: »

That is really bugging me. Acting petulant like it's some conspiracy against him. He's such a freak.

Full of freaks, even the most respected manager in the league at the moment

Freaks come out.

crkball6

nut case.

crkball6

There's a crisis

MagicIRL

United's results will improve when I can look at the starting XI and not be surprised.

Have a better chance of picking the lotto numbers at this stage.

crkball6

MagicIRL wrote: »

United's results will improve when I can look at the starting XI and not be surprised.

Have a better chance of picking the lotto numbers at this stage.

Really, how were you at picking Alex Ferguson's 11?

No one else could.

secman

crkball6 wrote: »

nut case.

6th and falling further behind points wise ....... nuts after the money we spent

magnumbud

crkball6 wrote: »

Full of freaks, even the most respected manager in the league at the moment

Freaks come out.

its fine if its a once off but hes facing his 3rd sideline ban of the season(talk of it being a 6 game ban) and we are just about a 1/3rd of the way through the season.

we are playing better in the middle and creating more chances but we have conceded nearly twice as many goals by the same time last season. people saying its lack of luck up front is all well but if your still leaking goals its only making it harder to win games.

my fear of getting jose was having to sit through 1-0 boring park the bus wins but i'd take that for a while to sort out confidence. look at the second last year under fergie we got hammered by city and to get the team rolling again he played for 1 nil wins for 6 or so games to rebuild confidence.

crkball6

magnumbud wrote: »

its fine if its a once off but hes facing his 3rd sideline ban of the season(talk of it being a 6 game ban) and we are just about a 1/3rd of the way through the season.

It wasn't a once of for Arsne, why is it fine as a once off? it's eithier fine or it's not. kicking a bottle in frustration is a non story. It's as pointless as yellow cards for celebrating with fans.

It seems everything is fine as long as it's someone else doing it.

magnumbud wrote: »

we are playing better in the middle and creating more chances but we have conceded nearly twice as many goals by the same time last season. people saying its lack of luck up front is all well but if your still leaking goals its only making it harder to win games.

The problem yesterday wasn't leaking the goal early we battered them for 90 minutes afterwards and randy had a dream performance as have a few keepers now at this point. There was some mesmerizing football going on at points

magnumbud wrote: »

my fear of getting jose was having to sit through 1-0 boring park the bus wins but i'd take that for a while to sort out confidence. look at the second last year under fergie we got hammered by city and to get the team rolling again he played for 1 nil wins for 6 or so games to rebuild confidence.

People are hard to please, when he parks the bus people complain, when he plays attacking free flowing football, people complain.

There's no personnel, shape, tactics that could have made yesterday any better. The problem yesterday was again, nothing to do with Jose.

greendom

crkball6 wrote: »

It wasn't a once of for Arsne, why is it fine as a once off? it's eithier fine or it's not. kicking a bottle in frustration is a non story. It's as pointless as yellow cards for celebrating with fans.

It seems everything is fine as long as it's someone else doing it.



The problem yesterday wasn't leaking the goal early we battered them for 90 minutes afterwards and randy had a dream performance as have a few keepers now at this point. There was some mesmerizing football going on at points



People are hard to please, when he parks the bus people complain, when he plays attacking free flowing football, people complain.

There's no personnel, shape, tactics that could have made yesterday any better. The problem yesterday was again, nothing to do with Jose.

What was the problem ?

crkball6

greendom wrote: »

What was the problem ?

Finishing.....

Keeper played out of his skin.....