Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

What are you even talking about?

Talking about hypothetical luck, "if a result was different" and looking forward to corners being turned, was a frequent line I used under Moyes and Van Gaal that most blasted me for.

Specifically remember in the Moyes season,there was a quick succession of poor results that turned the tide massively on Moyes, and those results could have been different had Van Persie and some others buried some straight forward chances.

But not many were buying what I was peddling. I just think it interesting how it's a line being used now to employ optimism for this season.

bangkok

common theme occurring this season.... carrick plays we win and play well, carrick doesnt play we draw or lose or play poorly.

Carrick should be the first name on the team sheet in all league games going forward

crkball6

TheDoc wrote: »

But not many were buying what I was peddling. I just think it interesting how it's a line being used now to employ optimism for this season.

It's fairly straight forward doc.
United are playing in a way that fans are enjoying (bar the results ) there is clear signs that the draws can easily be "good" victories.

With LVG there was no sign in how the team performed really that things were going to get better, even if results did the performance and how they got it was still something united fans were not really happy to accept and the whole philosophy was not something people wanted to buy into.

Maybe we're just implying this way of thinking because we're out to get you.

magnumbud

crkball6 wrote: »

It wasn't a once of for Arsne, why is it fine as a once off? it's eithier fine or it's not. kicking a bottle in frustration is a non story. It's as pointless as yellow cards for celebrating with fans.

It seems everything is fine as long as it's someone else doing it.

i'm not defending arsene but saying oh these other managers did it is not a good argument, asrsene got sent off and rightly so. also im not saying kicking the bottle i mean getting sent off as a manager if it happens rarely its not good but they are human but this is twice in 4 games also getting a ban for saying stuff about the ref in post match.you need to show restraint as a manager to be good influence on the players. its a known sending off and he shouldnt have done it and you know your gonna get a warning or ban from the FA if say anything about the refs after a game.

crkball6 wrote: »

The problem yesterday wasn't leaking the goal early we battered them for 90 minutes afterwards and randy had a dream performance as have a few keepers now at this point. There was some mesmerizing football going on at points

it was a sloppy free kick and goal to give away. you concede a goal that early you know you have to get atleast 2 to win. west ham also had more chances to add goals too and if they had luck we would have needed more to even get a draw. if your finding it hard to get goals in a game luck or not you need to be damn sure to not concede any goals

crkball6

magnumbud wrote: »

i'm not defending arsene but saying oh these other managers did it is not a good argument, asrsene got sent off and rightly so. also im not saying kicking the bottle i mean getting sent off as a manager if it happens rarely its not good but they are human but this is twice in 4 games also getting a ban for saying stuff about the ref in post match.you need to show restraint as a manager to be good influence on the players. its a known sending off and he shouldnt have done it and you know your gonna get a warning or ban from the FA if say anything about the refs after a game.

My point is it's exaggerated here because it's Jose, most people couldn't give a hoot if arsene did it he obviously had good reason. Jose, he's just a thug.

Arsne's not labeled a freak he's labeled the most respected manager in the PL.

magnumbud wrote: »

it was a sloppy free kick and goal to give away. you concede a goal that early you know you have to get atleast 2 to win. west ham also had more chances to add goals too and if they had luck we would have needed more to even get a draw. if your finding it hard to get goals in a game luck or not you need to be damn sure to not concede any goals

Right but once you do you have to crack on, we had just under 90 minutes losing a goal early is no excuse. Eithier way, Jose was not at fault for losing the goal, he's not at fault for not scoring the goal

There was players out there capable of out playing the hammers creating a lot of chances and should have won yesterday, the fact they didn't is _nothing_ to do with Jose. That's the point.

TheDoc

crkball6 wrote: »

It wasn't a once of for Arsne, why is it fine as a once off? it's eithier fine or it's not. kicking a bottle in frustration is a non story. It's as pointless as yellow cards for celebrating with fans.

It seems everything is fine as long as it's someone else doing it.

Just drastically missing the point. No one cares about him kicking a bottle. And I think it's embarrassing for the referees involved, you could see the smirk on the 4th official he couldn't wait to get him sent off. "Oi John, hold up there, your mans kicked a bottle".

The point is Jose is a marked man at the moment and it just shows a total bewildering lack of cop on for him to act like that, for an innocuous decision also. His reactions on the sideline as just peddling his conspiracy theory nonsense about the world and the FA against him.

The problem yesterday wasn't leaking the goal early we battered them for 90 minutes afterwards and randy had a dream performance as have a few keepers now at this point. There was some mesmerizing football going on at points

At points....and yet there was large passages of lethargic, slow football. Saying we battered them for 90 minutes is an exaggeration. West Ham had some good chances to win that game never mind get the draw. This is a West Ham team that have been utterly rotten this season.

People are hard to please, when he parks the bus people complain, when he plays attacking free flowing football, people complain.

People arn't hard to please at all. Stop dropping points to poor teams at home and everyone will be fine. We got absolutely embarrased by Chelsea away and conceeded that Liverpool at Anfield are better then us (which I'm surprised so many fans were cool with) but neither of those results will live long in the memory. Dropping points to poor teams at home is going to sting a lot more.

Maybe not have the team regress after the addition of four quality signings, and everyone will be happy chugging along.

Again I'd reiterate the manager isn't under any massive pressure yet, and there isn't serious questions being asked about his position. He is getting the benefit of the doubt and has lots of excuses to use, plenty of which he is peddling himself recently.

But it's genuine and correct to question why the team is only clicking in patches, why the attack of only functioning in parts and why there isn't a level of consistency, after what was pretty much a perfect pre-season for the manager. We are into December shortly, and people are still peddling excuses of "not knowing his first IX" and "getting to know the players" and ****e. It's December....and not only had he a full pre-season, he had the best of 4-6 months sitting at home watching this team week in week out knowing he was likely getting this job.

There's no personnel, shape, tactics that could have made yesterday any better. The problem yesterday was again, nothing to do with Jose.

Well that is nearly impossible to quantify. So maybe I can just make some unprovable hypothesis that you can also maybe conceed?

So lets say Mourinho doesn't completely alienate Luke Shaw. And we have an actual left back, playing left back yesterday? Maybe the service could have been much more productive, rather then Darmian, a rightback with no left foot, offering nothing down the left?

Maybe then Darmian could play in his actual right back position where he can cross a football. And I don't hav to watch Valencia get into good positions to just fire a daisy cutter rocket hoping for the best.

Maybe Mourinho handles Rashford a bit better, and stops crowbarring him into the side, onto the left, where he has been massively underwhelming as games go on.

Maybe Mourinho handles his 25m+ signing from Dortmund a bit better, and we have an actually established front 4 who are on the same wave length, instead of it being nearly December without having an established front 4, and our attack only clicking in parts.

Maybe Mourinho handles Martial a bit better, and we have an actual alternative to Ibrahimovic in attack, to look at when we are scoring absolutely sweet **** all goals.

magnumbud

crkball6 wrote: »

It's fairly straight forward doc.
United are playing in a way that fans are enjoying (bar the results ) there is clear signs that the draws can easily be "good" victories.

With LVG there was no sign in how the team performed really that things were going to get better, even if results did the performance and how they got it was still something united fans were not really happy to accept and the whole philosophy was not something people wanted to buy into.

Maybe we're just implying this way of thinking because we're out to get you.

have to disagree there under lvg there were periods where i thought why the hell cant we play like this all the time and if only we could play like that. we ended his first season very strongly when we went with the 433 and we thrashed city, spurs, pool and many teams and it gave me hope that he had finally turned the corner god knows what made him change back to the formation he stuck with most of last season but even then we had rare periods where we played great and won great.

at the end of the day people are comparing to lvg and moyes but we should be comparing to fergie and compared to him this is awful

greendom

crkball6 wrote: »

My point is it's exaggerated here because it's Jose, most people couldn't give a hoot if arsene did it he obviously had good reason. Jose, he's just a thug.

Arsne's not labeled a freak he's labeled the most respected manager in the PL.

Time dulls things - a huge "hoot" was made of it at the time!

magnumbud

crkball6 wrote: »

My point is it's exaggerated here because it's Jose, most people couldn't give a hoot if arsene did it he obviously had good reason. Jose, he's just a thug.

Arsne's not labeled a freak he's labeled the most respected manager in the PL.

arsene gets plenty of it jokes about him and got plenty at the time and its not exaggerating when he facing his THIRD ban of the season and we arent even in december.

crkball6

TheDoc wrote: »

Just drastically missing the point. No one cares about him kicking a bottle.

for someone who doesn't care you seem to be going out of your way to lay into him for it.

TheDoc wrote: »

People arn't hard to please at all. Stop dropping points to poor teams at home and everyone will be fine. We got absolutely embarrased by Chelsea away and conceeded that Liverpool at Anfield are better then us (which I'm surprised so many fans were cool with) but neither of those results will live long in the memory. Dropping points to poor teams at home is going to sting a lot more.

The Chelsea match is a difficult as it was always going to be hard after losing the early goal but I'm not going to try to defend that result it was awful.

Ferguson going away to liverpool often setup in a very similar fashion, I don't see why this is conceding Liverpool are better. But the league table would state that they're so I don't see why this is a talking point. He setup the team to try and remove liverpools threat and he did it and nearly came away with 3 points only for really poor finishing.

TheDoc wrote: »

Well that is nearly impossible to quantify. So maybe I can just make some unprovable hypothesis that you can also maybe conceed?

So lets say Mourinho doesn't completely alienate Luke Shaw. And we have an actual left back, playing left back yesterday? Maybe the service could have been much more productive, rather then Darmian, a rightback with no left foot, offering nothing down the left?

You mean the Luke Shaw that played 3 days ago just back from injury?

TheDoc wrote: »

Maybe then Darmian could play in his actual right back position where he can cross a football. And I don't hav to watch Valencia get into good positions to just fire a daisy cutter rocket hoping for the best.

Because Valencia has been one of our best players in that position all season?

TheDoc wrote: »

Maybe Mourinho handles Rashford a bit better, and stops crowbarring him into the side, onto the left, where he has been massively underwhelming as games go on.

This is a possibility but I don't see it make a huge difference yesterday. The problem yesterday was not creating the chances and opportunity it was finishing them. so is the point you want to see rashford up front on his own? or just out of the team in general?

TheDoc wrote: »

Maybe Mourinho handles his 25m+ signing from Dortmund a bit better, and we have an actually established front 4 who are on the same wave length, instead of it being nearly December without having an established front 4, and our attack only clicking in parts.

Seems to be handling him ok. Nice performance mid week, looked ok when he came on yesterday. As I have said to you many times, we have no idea how he's been handled. s

TheDoc wrote: »

Maybe Mourinho handles Martial a bit better, and we have an actual alternative to Ibrahimovic in attack, to look at when we are scoring absolutely sweet **** all goals.

Maybe Martial can get his finger out and start putting in performances when he gets a chance and take that look off his puss.

Your right unprovable nonsense so we may aswell leave it there .

crkball6

magnumbud wrote: »

arsene gets plenty of it jokes about him and got plenty at the time and its not exaggerating when he facing his THIRD ban of the season and we arent even in december.

Exactly, it was more light hearted and p|ss taking.

Jose is just labaled a thug/childish blah blah.

If you want to be reminded of a recent child managing united. Take a look at that clown thrown himself on the ground again..

NoviGlitzko

TheDoc wrote: »

Maybe then Darmian could play in his actual right back position where he can cross a football. And I don't hav to watch Valencia get into good positions to just fire a daisy cutter rocket hoping for the best.

Ah now, don't attack Antonio. Our player of the season so far.

Backstreet Moyes

Really criticising him for playing Valencia who has been one of the best performers and not playing Darmian instead who got skinned yesterday two times I can think off the top of my head and has been average when played.

Trigger

Also Valencias crossing has been top notch this season. Continuously sending dangerous balls into the box and most of the time the exact opposite of a "daisy cutter rocket".

Flint Fredstone

Graham Poll suggesting a 6 game ban for Jose :pac:

NoviGlitzko

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Graham Poll suggesting a 6 game ban for Jose :pac:

God it's so ridiculous. You'd swear he punched someone. The FA must really not like him.

TheDoc

NoviGlitzko wrote: »

Ah now, don't attack Antonio. Our player of the season so far.

Yeah of course he has, but his final third delivery was pretty atrocious yesterday.

And in the context of the post, I was portraying hypotheticals. As in saying with a bit more luck we could be in a totally different position is about as relevant as me saying how is Mourinho managed things better we could be better off.

Neither has happened, and we are where we are.

TheDoc

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Graham Poll suggesting a 6 game ban for Jose :pac:

Don't be surprised if we does get something outrageous. He is a repeat offender and probably an example will be made of him.

sky88

astradave wrote: »

Also Valencias crossing has been top notch this season. Continuously sending dangerous balls into the box and most of the time the exact opposite of a "daisy cutter rocket".

while his delivery has been better. he has still wasted a lot in all the matches.

I think vlancia frustrates me so much because he can send in great balls but often takes too much time or an extra touch. He also still doesn't believe in hitting a cross first time and always takes the extra touch.

ricero

Jose to me looks like a man on the brink of a mental breakdown.

Think he underestimated the task at hand

sky88

ricero wrote: »

Jose to me looks like a man on the brink of a mental breakdown.

Think he underestimated the task at hand

Hasnt been the same jose since madrid i feel. he seemed to get back to himself at chelsea but then last season he imploded.

still think he needed longer away from football after last season

Liam McPoyle

ricero wrote: »

Jose to me looks like a man on the brink of a mental breakdown.

Think he underestimated the task at hand

Everyone and their dog could see how bad a shape we were in at the end of last season.

Someone mentioned previously, its going to be his biggest challenge to date.

Its disappointing considering the investment that has been made in players but I still retain every confidence that if given enough time he will get us back on top.

magnumbud

crkball6 wrote: »

Exactly, it was more light hearted and p|ss taking.

Jose is just labaled a thug/childish blah blah.

If you want to be reminded of a recent child managing united. Take a look at that clown thrown himself on the ground again..

whos labeling him as a thug? all people are asking for is for the manager to show a bit of restraint and not get sent off for the second game this month.

as for the lvg comment arent you doing the exact thing that your criticizing others for doing to jose? lvg was being childish and nobody was defending him at the time.

at the end of the day its known that as a manager if you slag off the ref after the game your gonna be in trouble just as fergie was, its known if you rush out of the technical area you'll get in trouble, its known if you kick a water bottle (which was outside the technical area) you'll get in trouble. stop doing little things that get you in trouble and banned from the sideline just show some restraint and maturity for someone in his 50's. again its not one thing its a number of things in the last month. its not labeling him a thug its not labeling him as a child its just asking him to not embarrass himself and the club by repeatedly breaking the rules.

TheDoc

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Everyone and their dog could see how bad a shape we were in at the end of last season.

Someone mentioned previously, its going to be his biggest challenge to date.

Its disappointing considering the investment that has been made in players but I still retain every confidence that if given enough time he will get us back on top.

What constitutes enough time? I notice he mentioned about SAF last week, and there has been a drastically different tone from his unveiling and proceeding quotes, to his recent ones. So no doubt he has been caught a bit on the hop with how bad he perceives the team to be.

But the concept of "time" has so drastically changed.

I'd like for him to be given his three years irregardless, and for a review to happen at that point to see if he should continue or time to move on.

But if we have a recent history where we have fired managers for failing to get top 4, even with Van Gaal winning the FA Cup, do we see this being a change from the hierarchy, or will he be gone if he doesn't get top 4.

Which would constitute an utter failure.

Leroy42

I agree that Jose could turn it around. He needs to be given time.

This season is very frustrating, but it is what it is. The style of football is better, even is the results are worse, so at least there is some enjoyment in watching the team again although ultimately it leads to disappointment.

We have hitched the boat to Jose now, give him space and time. He does appear to be struggling so let him breath, calm down.

i don't reckon we will get top 4 from this position, so feck it, try out everyone and once we don't get relegated build towards next season.

I'm not writing the season off, just lowering my expectations based on the results so far. He might yet get it ticking in this season but my guess is that it will take until next season before we really see the likely outcome

magnumbud

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Everyone and their dog could see how bad a shape we were in at the end of last season.

Someone mentioned previously, its going to be his biggest challenge to date.

Its disappointing considering the investment that has been made in players but I still retain every confidence that if given enough time he will get us back on top.

how bad a shape were chelsea in 12 months ago? they got 20 points in their first 20 games but conte has them winning and winning well

Tom.D.BJJ

bangkok wrote: »

common theme occurring this season.... carrick plays we win and play well, carrick doesnt play we draw or lose or play poorly.

Carrick should be the first name on the team sheet in all league games going forward

Correlation =/= Causation

Another game without a win when Carrick has been missing
Just saying....

secman

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Another game without a win when Carrick has been missing
Just saying....

It's just bad luck that he wasn't playing...... apparently.

crkball6

secman wrote: »

It's just bad luck that he wasn't playing...... apparently.

If he rested him from Europe and we got knocked out, people would be moaning.

If he plays him in a must win European game and rests him against the MIGHTY HAMMERS, people start moaning.

You do realize he's 35 not 25 right?

Carrick missing was not the problem. If we were unable to control the game and create chances you can assume Carrick would have made an impact, where you mostly control the game and create a lot of chances, the lack of Carrick was not the problem.

crkball6

crkball6 wrote: »

If he rested him from Europe and we got knocked out, people would be moaning.

If he plays him in a must win European game and rests him against the MIGHTY HAMMERS, people start moaning.

You do realize he's 35 not 25 right?

Carrick missing was not the problem. If we were unable to control the game and create chances you can assume Carrick would have made an impact, where you mostly control the game and create a lot of chances, the lack of Carrick was not the problem.

If I was to compare both games the West Ham game was by far the most important of the two.
Resting Carrick on Thursday would have made more sense and is understandable at his age thus allowing him to play Sunday.
I do believe he would have made a difference.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Talking about hypothetical luck, "if a result was different" and looking forward to corners being turned, was a frequent line I used under Moyes and Van Gaal that most blasted me for.

Specifically remember in the Moyes season,there was a quick succession of poor results that turned the tide massively on Moyes, and those results could have been different had Van Persie and some others buried some straight forward chances.

But not many were buying what I was peddling. I just think it interesting how it's a line being used now to employ optimism for this season.

Variance, Sample size. Pull yourself together dude you gave LVG nearly 2 years you turned on jose after 2 games so your agenda is silly. You can keep saying you dont have one but its obvious you do when you afford one manager a lot more time then another.

Comparing Moyes and Jose is laughable aswell Moyes was tactically out classed in most games he managed in he hadnt a clue how to manage a big club nothing like Jose.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

If I was to compare both games the West Ham game was by far the most important of the two.
Resting Carrick on Thursday would have made more sense and is understandable at his age thus allowing him to play Sunday.
I do believe he would have made a difference.

Mourinho probably thinks the Europa League game was more important. He has committed to that tournament (instead of just purely playing kids and reserves), so getting knocked out would be very bad for his job. I'm not saying that committing to the EL was the right decision by Jose, but it's the course he chose to follow a while back.

Not that Carrick is that big a deal anyway. His positive influence this season is being exaggerated.

bangkok

crkball6 wrote: »

If he rested him from Europe and we got knocked out, people would be moaning.

If he plays him in a must win European game and rests him against the MIGHTY HAMMERS, people start moaning.

You do realize he's 35 not 25 right?

Carrick missing was not the problem. If we were unable to control the game and create chances you can assume Carrick would have made an impact, where you mostly control the game and create a lot of chances, the lack of Carrick was not the problem.

ibrahimovic is 35 and plays every game for us and as a lone striker

crkball6

M!Ck^ wrote: »

If I was to compare both games the West Ham game was by far the most important of the two.
Resting Carrick on Thursday would have made more sense and is understandable at his age thus allowing him to play Sunday.
I do believe he would have made a difference.

I'm not for a minute suggesting Jose thinks like this. But there's over 70m+ sterling at risk if we don't make CL next year. Various advertising and then the potential money from the actual CL itself.

So I think he's putting a huge importance into trying to win it .
So he _has_ to win that match. His next game is West Ham, I'm not trying to reduce the importance of also beating west ham but at some point you have to be able to trust this squad to beat a horribly performing west ham.

You believe he would have made a difference I don't think it would have made much difference the way the game played out but none of us know and it's pointless to keep going on about it.

I love Carrick and I wish he could play every game. But bemoaning each time he's left out is pointless. The players on the pitch yesterday should have slaughtered west ham, Carrick or no Carrick

crkball6

bangkok wrote: »

ibrahimovic is 35 and plays every game for us and as a lone striker

Brad Friedel played week in week out in his 40's

But it's not relevant. Nor is your point.

The game in Carrick's position is mentally and physically worlds apart.
It's also been worlds apart for both their careers.
You can't just take two players in isolatation match their ages and say their the same.

crkball6

crkball6 wrote: »

I'm not for a minute suggesting Jose thinks like this. But there's over 70m+ sterling at risk if we don't make CL next year. Various advertising and then the potential money from the actual CL itself.

So I think he's putting a huge importance into trying to win it .
So he _has_ to win that match. His next game is West Ham, I'm not trying to reduce the importance of also beating west ham but at some point you have to be able to trust this squad to beat a horribly performing west ham.

You believe he would have made a difference I don't think it would have made much difference the way the game played out but none of us know and it's pointless to keep going on about it.

I love Carrick and I wish he could play every game. But bemoaning each time he's left out is pointless. The players on the pitch yesterday should have slaughtered west ham, Carrick or no Carrick

Fair points made.
Bit in bold we can agree to disagree.

bangkok

crkball6 wrote: »

Brad Friedel played week in week out in his 40's

But it's not relevant. Nor is your point.

The game in Carrick's position is mentally and physically worlds apart.
It's also been worlds apart for both their careers.
You can't just take two players in isolatation match their ages and say their the same.

no its not. Carrick plays as a defensive midfielder, ibra plays as a striker, loads more running needed by a striker than a defensive midfielder. Its actually rare enough to see a striker over the age of 30 play at a top club while you will see plenty of players over 30 playing in midfield as there is less running and sprinting involved

v3ttel

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It's just unbelievable at this stage. You have the best free kick taker in the world and the most lethal player in the air in the world on the pitch and Lingard gives away a free kick in possibly the best position for Payet in the first minute. Rashford and Ibra miss sitters.

How does the europa league have anything to do with the above?

Who is that?

Carroll is their best header and he wasn't playing. Surely you don't mean Antonio?

West Ham don't have the most lethal player in the air in world football.

magnumbud wrote: »

its fine if its a once off but hes facing his 3rd sideline ban of the season(talk of it being a 6 game ban) and we are just about a 1/3rd of the way through the season.

Third? Would it not be his second?

crkball6

bangkok wrote: »

no its not. Carrick plays as a defensive midfielder, ibra plays as a striker, loads more running needed by a striker than a defensive midfielder. Its actually rare enough to see a striker over the age of 30 play at a top club while you will see plenty of players over 30 playing in midfield as there is less running and sprinting involved

I think I've yet to see Ibra run :pac:

Clever strikers can play forever, Teddy,drogba,klose,totti I could list them all day.
Midfielders have generally much more mileage on the clock especially ones in teams that demand they're box to box, play in a lot of comps. I'm not sure how we could thought up mileage bit I assure you Carrick would have more on the clock.

Again, maybe Jose just makes these choices to annoy TheDoc, there's obviously no other footballing reason.

Liam McPoyle

TheDoc wrote: »

What constitutes enough time? I notice he mentioned about SAF last week, and there has been a drastically different tone from his unveiling and proceeding quotes, to his recent ones. So no doubt he has been caught a bit on the hop with how bad he perceives the team to be.

But the concept of "time" has so drastically changed.

I'd like for him to be given his three years irregardless, and for a review to happen at that point to see if he should continue or time to move on.

But if we have a recent history where we have fired managers for failing to get top 4, even with Van Gaal winning the FA Cup, do we see this being a change from the hierarchy, or will he be gone if he doesn't get top 4.

Which would constitute an utter failure.

Ive said it previously but regardless of how the remainder of this season pans out (aside from a flirtation with relegation) I'd hate to see him sacked.

Top 4 is going to be very challenging but even if we fall short it would be pointless sacking him.

Moyes I didn't want from the get go and correctly assumed it would be a disastrous appointment.

LVG I kept faith in until post Christmas this year so the minimum I'd like to see him allowed is 2 full seasons.

If come March / April 2018 we are still floundering then it will be time to reevaluate.

We have been unlucky in some respects, there have been what, 3 games so far this season where we went behind very early?

The manager can't be blamed for that and it completely throws the game plan out the window.

We have also had an abundance of scoring opportunities that with a bit more accuracy from the players means we would be within 4 or 5 points of first and the conversation would be entirely different.

However one can only accept bad luck to a point.

Ultimately its Jose that picks the team.

Carrick should play when he can.

Lingard should not be near the first team.

Mikhi should be one of the first names on the team sheet (I think he will be but at the moment he is being managed back to full fitness)

These are things that are in Jose's control and he will ultimately live or die by these decisions.

sky88

i honestly dont know what carrick would have changed yesterday. carrick is not going to finish any chances and really would he set up more then we had im not so sure.

he played against arsenal and we had the same problem finishing the chances.

sky88

sky88 wrote: »

i honestly dont know what carrick would have changed yesterday. carrick is not going to finish any chances and really would he set up more then we had im not so sure.

he played against arsenal and we had the same problem finishing the chances.

Fair enough but he may have lead to more chances being created.

bucketybuck

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I do believe he would have made a difference.

Would he have used his silky skills to help Rashford score when one on one with the keeper? Would his aura have slowed Randolph just enough that he didn't get down to Mikitarians effort? Would his influence have injected some pace into Zlatan when he rounded the keeper that time?

We competed perfectly well in midfield and created some genuine chances, with Carrick there I'm sure we would also have competed perfectly well in midfield and created some genuine chances. In real terms he would have made little difference.

A better striker would have made a difference, not a different holding midfielder.

Rayne Wooney

v3ttel wrote: »

Who is that?

Carroll is their best header and he wasn't playing. Surely you don't mean Antonio?

West Ham don't have the most lethal player in the air in world football.



Third? Would it not be his second?

In the last two years no player has scored more headed goals than Antonio in Europes top 5 leagues.

Minderbinder

crkball6 wrote: »

secman wrote: »

It's just bad luck that he wasn't playing...... apparently.

If he rested him from Europe and we got knocked out, people would be moaning.

If he plays him in a must win European game and rests him against the MIGHTY HAMMERS, people start moaning.

You do realize he's 35 not 25 right?

Carrick missing was not the problem. If we were unable to control the game and create chances you can assume Carrick would have made an impact, where you mostly control the game and create a lot of chances, the lack of Carrick was not the problem.

I don't think we had much control of yesterday's game at all. We had a lot of the ball but it was nowhere near the level of play achieved against Feyenoord. We lacked composure and I'd 100% blame the manager for changing the team around too much. For me, I don't really rate Herrera and think he doesn't do a lot to be honest. He runs around a lot but doesn't have the awareness or positional sense of Carrick or the quality of Pogba, Mata or Mkhitaryan. I always feel we are a bit ragged when he's on the pitch.

Hococop

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Fair enough but he may have lead to more chances being created.

I think mata staying on and Lingard replaced might have improved our chances

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

Variance, Sample size. Pull yourself together dude you gave LVG nearly 2 years you turned on jose after 2 games so your agenda is silly. You can keep saying you dont have one but its obvious you do when you afford one manager a lot more time then another.

Comparing Moyes and Jose is laughable aswell Moyes was tactically out classed in most games he managed in he hadnt a clue how to manage a big club nothing like Jose.

Maybe I should do that annoying thing where I ask you to point out where I've "turned" on Jose?

Your basically implying I can't wait for Mourinho to fail and be gone.

Knowing that you won't actually find anything of the sort, and appreciate you might not want to go back on my posts, maybe you are just constructing this myth that I have an agenda, as opposed to me just putting questions against the managers door?

I'm not a football expert. I'm going to be incorrect with assumptions or comments or opinions I have. But an opinion I have that is incorrect or "harsh", does not mean I have an agenda.

I think you might find in most quarters there was, and still is, serious questions being raised about this managers adaptability and suitability, and if he is just an outdated coach.

If I had an agenda, surely I'd have latched onto that when general opinion would support it (general opinion from outside of our club)? Instead I railed against it, specifically.

Your speaking as if I never questioned the previous regime and I was just in joyful bliss. It's getting a big annoying people rewriting my history here.

Do I need to get your permission for when and where it's ok to question the manager, that makes it out like I don't have some darker intention or agenda?

bucketybuck

Hococop wrote: »

I think mata staying on and Lingard replaced might have improved our chances

I think that Mata wasn't that good either and is lucky that Lingard was there to be the scapegoat.