Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

mewe

A draw was a fair result yesterday and in the grand scheme of things over the course of a season a draw away at Goodison isn't the worst result. In Fergies day we wouldn't have been freaking out about a draw there. Sure the performance could have been better but we're not going to dominate and steamroll every team home and away. It's the draws at home against teams we should have beaten that will hurt us more and in those games we've actually had a fair amount of bad luck and played well.

Also, agree with KH25 Fergie never replaced Keane or Scholes. We had a big problem in the middle, particularly after Keane leaving which he never sorted.

newballsplease

It's probably a more realistic goal to qualify for champions league by winning the Europa league now then reaching 4th spot.

Never expected to be in this position underJose this close to Christmas.

beno619

Some of the ****e spouted about Fellaini shows how fickle football fans are.

Arguably are best player in the opening games of the season and showed how valuable he was against Pool.

Yes he ****ed up yesterday but it could have been anyone really.

secman

beno619 wrote: »

Some of the ****e spouted about Fellaini shows how fickle football fans are.

Arguably are best player in the opening games of the season and showed how valuable he was against Pool.

Yes he ****ed up yesterday but it could have been anyone really.

I like many many United fans have consistently questioned Fellaini, no fickle fan here.

newballsplease

beno619 wrote: »

Some of the ****e spouted about Fellaini shows how fickle football fans are.

Arguably are best player in the opening games of the season and showed how valuable he was against Pool.

Yes he ****ed up yesterday but it could have been anyone really.

Fellaini is an easy target alright. I think it stems from the decision of Moyes to panic buy him at last minute and pay over the odds. Following a poor season for the team all round and a 7th place finish, people seem to vent their anger at Fellaini since.
He has done some decent stuff for Utd and got some important goals,but let's be honest, he is not Utd standard. Clumsy player and it showed yesterday. Jose should cash in for whatever he can get. Can you see any other team in the top big 6 wanting a Fellaini in their team? I don't.

He's easy to blame for yesterday but utd had chances to finish the game but again failed to do so. That's the biggest worry...when will that change? Herraras effort comes to mind.

In saying all that, I would have preferred to see someone like Blind come on instead of Fellaini to see out the game.Osman said it straight yesterday...when fellaini was with Everton his own teammates didn't want him anywhere near their own box. Says it all....

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

Some of the ****e spouted about Fellaini shows how fickle football fans are.

Arguably are best player in the opening games of the season and showed how valuable he was against Pool.

Yes he ****ed up yesterday but it could have been anyone really.

Fickle about fellaini? Seriously.

I don't ever remember a United player so maligned in my life. Also the only united player I can ever remember getting booed at old Trafford. Fellaini is no where near good enough for us. What he did yesterday was ridiculous.

The_Kew_Tour

It was a disgrace that he got booed at OT that time.

bangkok

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

It was a disgrace that he got booed at OT that time.

Agree 100% but it happened and I don't know of anyone except a few on here that think fellaini has a place in our squad

Leroy42

When does the complete lack of consistency, any real plan, or any seeming improvement in terms of addressing the glaring problems start to become an issue.

I'm not going to go back through the thread, but i would wager that every game someone has come on to say that the next 2 two are vital we pick up 3 points.

Yesterdays game was the most disappointing in the run. Everton are a poor side, they will struggle to make top half, and unlike the home games we never dominated. It wasn't like we were camped in their half. Yes we had plenty of the ball but didn't create much and were lucky to go in 1 up at half time.

I fully expected Jose to light a rocket up their arses at half time but the opposite happened. Can he not motivate the players? Conte has shown a number of times already his ability to change things at half time and once again Jose failed to have an positive effect on the outcome.

When you compare him to Conte it isn't pretty.

bucketybuck

newballsplease wrote: »

but let's be honest, he is not Utd standard.

Of course he is. What you mean is that he isn't world class, but he a perfectly viable squad player for United and better than many who have gone before him.

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

Fickle about fellaini? Seriously.

I don't ever remember a United player so maligned in my life. Also the only united player I can ever remember getting booed at old Trafford. Fellaini is no where near good enough for us. What he did yesterday was ridiculous.

How old are you? We have had a few over the years!

Djemba-Djemba, Fletcher for the majority of his early career (constant jibes that he must have been Fergies love child to get in the squad/team so regularly) Kleberson, Cryuff, David Bellion, Ralph feckin Milne just off the top of my head from the Fergie era have been subject of much abuse over the years.

Everything is extremes with you though isn't it so I suppose that's not going to change.

Fellaini is a grand squad option, always has been, will always have a role to play but will also always be subject to criticism, some warranted, some stupid. What amuses me is how you use Jose Mourinho playing Carrick as proof of his greatness Fellaini plays too though right?

StringerBell

Leroy42 wrote: »

When you compare him to Conte it isn't pretty.

Conte was my number 1 choice, I'm on record with that and I was gutted he went to Chelsea but it is a bit too early to be drawing any conclusive comparisons right now. Chelsea had a shaky start but they have gotten a great level of consistency right now, this was a squad that was league champions a couple of seasons ago though and only improved between now and then. For United its a longer way back up that hill and it shows, mentally more then anything. The killer instinct is not there as of yet but I think where we end up at the end of the season is the time to analyse the appointment of Mourinho.

TL;DR - So many variables it makes comparisons between managers right now irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

bangkok

StringerBell wrote: »

How old are you? We have had a few over the years!

Djemba-Djemba, Fletcher for the majority of his early career (constant jibes that he must have been Fergies love child to get in the squad/team so regularly) Kleberson, Cryuff, David Bellion, Ralph feckin Milne just off the top of my head from the Fergie era have been subject of much abuse over the years.

Everything is extremes with you though isn't it so I suppose that's not going to change.

Fellaini is a grand squad option, always has been, will always have a role to play but will also always be subject to criticism, some warranted, some stupid. What amuses me is how you use Jose Mourinho playing Carrick as proof of his greatness Fellaini plays too though right?

were any of the above players booed and jeered loudly by the crowd ever at old trafford?? no

The_Kew_Tour

bangkok wrote: »

were any of the above players booed and jeered loudly by the crowd ever at old trafford?? no

Fergie was booed against Arsenal in May 2009 for subbing Tevez. Does that make Fergie a crap manager?

Being way too Black and white on this topic if honest

bangkok

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Fergie was booed against Arsenal in May 2009 for subbing Tevez. Does that make Fergie a crap manager?

Being way too Black and white on this topic if honest

at the time the supporters didnt know that tevez was doing a deal to move to city

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

at the time the supporters didnt know that tevez was doing a deal to move to city

At the time of the Fellaini booing, the supporters didn't know that he would be one of our best performers earlier this season, when they were applauding him.

See I can move the goalposts too

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im only slating him for the performance yesterday

Always liked Carrick, just think he was awful though and Fellaini is the scape goat

I can agree with this bit.
If the blame was to lie with anyone it was Jose IMO

Leroy42

I am not saying that Jose is a mistake, only showing the comparison.

I am, though, getting concerned that Jose does not seem to be able to make the same impact that he had on other clubs. The problems with the team are the same problems we had a few months ago, and Jose seem to be giving out the vibe that only new signings will fix it.

On the other hand, the problems with the squad are much deeper, IMO, than that of City, or Chelsea. City players just downed tools last year, it was actually pretty disgraceful. Chelsea had a very good team, just needed a new direction. However, Conte seems to have taken to the task much quicker than Jose, despite all the notions that Jose had PL experience etc.

There doesn't appear to be a coherent strategy. Pays Fellaini for the first few games, says he's a great player and then drops him. Same for Blind. Carrick was nowhere and now suddenly being asked to play two 90 minutes in the same week.

So the front 6 are having a tough time finding the net, so make sure you are hard to break down. Run out a few 1-0nils, sure it won't be pretty but either is mid table obscurity by mid December.

So its not a 'Jose out', or Utd are rubbish or anything like that, more a sense that things should be getting better and it certainly seems that yesterday was a definite step backwards.

bucketybuck

Leroy42 wrote: »

The problems with the team are the same problems we had a few months ago, and Jose seem to be giving out the vibe that only new signings will fix it.

And what if he is right?

Personally I still believe there is a serious lack of character and leadership in that squad and we are going to keep seeing these results no matter who the manager is or what he does.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

And what if he is right?

Personally I still believe there is a serious lack of character and leadership in that squad and we are going to keep seeing these results no matter who the manager is or what he does.

i think that is nonsense to be honest. look at the chelsea team that beat city on saturday. would you say that team was full of characters and leaders?

we are playing very well at the moment just cant kill off the games.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

i think that is nonsense to be honest.

I shall take that as validation.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

I shall take that as validation.

no but what do you mean by leadership and character??

roy keane type?

we have herrera who is captain material, Rooney who is back playing well, Zlatan, best keeper in the world in goals

beno619

bangkok wrote: »

we have herrera who is captain material, Rooney who is back playing well, Zlatan, best keeper in the world in goals

I addressed Herrera yesterday, captain material but hasn't shown it when its really needed.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

I addressed Herrera yesterday, captain material but hasn't shown it when its really needed.

club captain is more than just doing it on the pitch, its what goes on in training, how he is in the dressing room, off the field etc herrera would make a fantastic captain imo

Leroy42

The squad is more than good enough to be beating the likes of Everton. Every fan always wants better players brought in, but we have a decent squad, certainly the envy of most teams out there. Maybe not enough to compete at the very highest level, CL etc, but against a poor Everton? A poor West Ham, a team destroyed by Arsenal?

The squad is not the problem, it is the output from the squad. players are simply not playing to their potential. Remember that Jose said he asked for four top signings and he got them, but now he seems to be saying that the squad just isn't good enough.

Most of the players, all I would argue, in the current squad are PL level players. Most teams would play them. We were playing a team with a CM including Cleverly yesterday for fecks sake. You might argue for Coleman and Lukaku (on his day) but other than that? So the problem is not the potential of the players but rather the output and that falls do the manager.

Again, I'm not in the Jose out camp or anything, but I am getting increasingly worried that there is little real solutions coming forward to the problems. That we are struggling against the likes or Everton, that nothing positive changed after half-time, that we fell back in the last twenty minutes, that we have gone from a team known for scoring the last few minutes to a team now known for conceding in the last few minutes is very worrying.

Especially if we are now relying on the Europa cup to get into CL. Such a clearly mentally weak team is not what you need in a knock out comp. Based on the season so far, there is simply no way you can put Utd anywhere close to winning the Europa.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

club captain is more than just doing it on the pitch, its what goes on in training, how he is in the dressing room, off the field etc herrera would make a fantastic captain imo

How can you say that it is more than on the pitch stuff and that he would make a fantastic captain when you only see the on the pitch stuff..

bangkok

astradave wrote: »

How can you say that it is more than on the pitch stuff and that he would make a fantastic captain when you only see the on the pitch stuff..

not moving the goalposts, op said we lacked characters and leaders in our team. i named 4 and also said herrera is captain material

Korat

It's not even X-mas and though things aren't going as well as I'd like Utd are still in all comps.

We're playing better football than at any time since Fergie left which I think is more important than sitting in 4th playing the kind of utter crap we did under Moyes and LVG. Some better fortune up front and more competent defending would have Utd challenging for the title if not this season then certainly next.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

not moving the goalposts, op said we lacked characters and leaders in our team. i named 4 and also said herrera is captain material

You picked four names out of a hat and presented them as captains without any evidence. You named De Gea for gods sake, who for all his talent is not exactly big Pete in terms of marshaling his backline.

Want my evidence of a "lack" of leadership and character? Just watch the ****ing games. This is a squad that wets its pants if told to close out a scrappy one nil lead, that can't recover from conceding an early goal, that has spent 3 years passively waiting for somebody else to come along and make things better instead of growing a set and making it happen themselves.

The new coaches have demonstrably improved the style of play and basic skills, but they cannot give mental strength to mentally weak players, and its becoming very clear that for all their talent we have a squad that is very weak in terms of character.

Leroy42

Korat wrote: »

It's not even X-mas and though things aren't going as well as I'd like Utd are still in all comps.

We're playing better football than at any time since Fergie left which I think is more important than sitting in 4th playing the kind of utter crap we did under Moyes and LVG. Some better fortune up front and more competent defending would have Utd challenging for the title if not this season then certainly next.

Not against Everton we didn't

Rayne Wooney

I agree with Neville, we are on the right track in so many ways, we played well enough and we should have been out of sight yesterday like many other games this season and it's been a long time since I've been able to say that. A massive progression in itself from what Van Gaal and Moyes served up.

If we keep progressing at the rate we are I think things will start to fall into place after Christmas with maybe and addition or two in January. In reality no manager was going to come in and have us challenging again after 4 months.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

You picked four names out of a hat and presented them as captains without any evidence. You named De Gea for gods sake, who for all his talent is not exactly big Pete in terms of marshaling his backline.

Want my evidence of a "lack" of leadership and character? Just watch the ****ing games. This is a squad that wets its pants if told to close out a scrappy one nil lead, that can't recover from conceding an early goal, that has spent 3 years passively waiting for somebody else to come along and make things better instead of growing a set and making it happen themselves.

The new coaches have demonstrably improved the style of play and basic skills, but they cannot give mental strength to mentally weak players, and its becoming very clear that for all their talent we have a squad that is very weak in terms of character.

no i did not.

i watch all the games, not taking chances has nothing to do with "wetting out pants"

what players are mentally weak???

Lord TSC

I can count on one hand the number of games where I was massively disappointed with the style of football on display.

Everton and Chelsea are about it. Probably add the first 25 minutes of the first City game too.

Otherwise, overall, the style of football has been really fun to watch this season. But our finishing has let us down massively in a lot of those games. Get the finishing issue down and we've potential to trounce teams 9 games out of 10.

Leroy42

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I agree with Neville, we are on the right track in so many ways, we played well enough and we should have been out of sight yesterday like many other games this season and it's been a long time since I've been able to say that. A massive progression in itself from what Van Gaal and Moyes served up.

If we keep progressing at the rate we are I think things will start to fall into place after Christmas with maybe and addition or two in January. In reality no manager was going to come in and have us challenging again after 4 months.

What were the stats for the game?

2 shots on target, 75% passing accuracy. DDG made 5 saves against their 1.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

i watch all the games, not taking chances has nothing to do with "wetting out pants"

Dropping points against Everton had as much to do with being unable to close out the game as it did with not taking chances.

Leroy42

Lord TSC wrote: »

I can count on one hand the number of games where I was massively disappointed with the style of football on display.

Everton and Chelsea are about it. Probably add the first 25 minutes of the first City game too.

Otherwise, overall, the style of football has been really fun to watch this season. But our finishing has let us down massively in a lot of those games. Get the finishing issue down and we've potential to trounce teams 9 games out of 10.

I agree, but how do you explain the performance yesterday? We already had this type of performance, seemed to have improved (although frustratingly without the results) and then back to that type of performance.

bmcc10

bmcc10 wrote: »

Out of his trolley

genuine lol

bangkok

Lord TSC wrote: »

I can count on one hand the number of games where I was massively disappointed with the style of football on display.

Everton and Chelsea are about it. Probably add the first 25 minutes of the first City game too.

Otherwise, overall, the style of football has been really fun to watch this season. But our finishing has let us down massively in a lot of those games. Get the finishing issue down and we've potential to trounce teams 9 games out of 10.

exactly, nothing to do with being mentally weak or lacking leaders as others are suggesting

Lord TSC

Leroy42 wrote: »

I agree, but how do you explain the performance yesterday? We already had this type of performance, seemed to have improved (although frustratingly without the results) and then back to that type of performance.

I've talked before that our players seem to massively lack the ability to concentrate in early and late stages of the game. Ultimately, there's still a few players who are too inconsistent and too prone to not being switched on for 90 minutes.

No team, mind, is going to be destroying teams in 100% of games. Every team is going to have an off day where nothing works or they aren't at the races. The issue this year is that while we've only had a few of them, more importantly, we aren't taking advantages of games we are dominating in. Games like Stoke, Burnley, Arsenal, West Ham....we're dominating and not finishing chances. If we had preformed properly in those games, yesterday wouldn't hurt as much. But in terms of playing "good" football, yesterday, to me, is the abnormality.

(Mind, I also know there's no bonus points for "good" football...)

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Dropping points against Everton had as much to do with being unable to close out the game as it did with not taking chances.

if it wasnt for a stupid challenge from fellaini we would have won the game 1-0.

bucketybuck

Leroy42 wrote: »

I agree, but how do you explain the performance yesterday?

You could easily explain it as simply a bad performance, such as every team has from time to time, and had other results gone our way it would be accepted as such.

Note that accepting it as such would not be a belief that everything was rosy and that no changes needed to be made.

greendom

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I agree with Neville, we are on the right track in so many ways, we played well enough and we should have been out of sight yesterday like many other games this season and it's been a long time since I've been able to say that. A massive progression in itself from what Van Gaal and Moyes served up.

If we keep progressing at the rate we are I think things will start to fall into place after Christmas with maybe and addition or two in January. In reality no manager was going to come in and have us challenging again after 4 months.

I thought Mourinho was brought in as he could bring results quickly?

Lovely Bloke

greendom wrote: »

I thought Mourinho was brought in as he could bring results quickly?

he normally wins the title in his second season

how much more quickly would you like, after the previous three seasons of shíte.

DM_7

Liam O wrote: »

Carrick still being underrated by the people. Very different to Keane but has had a huge influence on how United have played the last 10 or so years. But sure, you could have anyone in midfield and make the CL final 3 years out of 4. Keane is my number 1 football hero and irreplaceable but I honestly can't think of anyone other than Xabi Alonso (and i'm even unsure he was up to Carrick's level defensively) who could have been a better option there than Carrick.

Thanks for expanding the conversation.

Carrick is nowhere close to the influence Keane had. That is okay. Valencia at his best, pre injury was nowhere close to Ronaldo but that was okay.

Replacing both people required a change from how the team functioned because they could not be replaced like for like (again that is okay).

The fact they replaced Ronaldo or Keane does not mean they were a success just because the team was winning (which is what I was replying to). The whole team had to be changed.

Carrick was a brilliant signing for United in his own right. He played to a high standard and helped to get the best from those around him. I don't underrate him but I acknowledge he still had weaknesses.

Trigger

bangkok wrote: »

not moving the goalposts, op said we lacked characters and leaders in our team. i named 4 and also said herrera is captain material

No I mean how can you say this

bangkok wrote: »

no but what do you mean by leadership and character??

roy keane type?

we have herrera who is captain material, Rooney who is back playing well, Zlatan, best keeper in the world in goals

The justify it with this:

bangkok wrote: »

club captain is more than just doing it on the pitch its what goes on in training, how he is in the dressing room, off the field etc

How could you possibly use the above to make this statement, you don't know **** about what he does off the pitch.

Bangkok wrote:

herrera would make a fantastic captain imo

He might well do but stop trying to back up your opinion with something that you cannot possibly know

bucketybuck

greendom wrote: »

I thought Mourinho was brought in as he could bring results quickly?

Option A - If Mourinho couldn't get that squad winning then nobody could

Option B - If Mourinho couldn't get that squad winning he must be a bad maanger.

Which option you believe will depend on your pre-conceived notions of the manager, but considering how that squad has performed for 3 years now it seems strange how people to jump straight to option B.

Many people thought Mourinho would get results quickly, but say that he can't, what then? Replace him? What if Simone struggles as well? What if Pochettino has a slow start? Sack them too?

StringerBell

bangkok wrote: »

if it wasnt for a stupid challenge from fellaini we would have won the game 1-0.

Maybe, but they looked like scoring anyway. They missed a great chance a few minutes earlier when they had a free header inside the 6 yard box in the middle of the goal.

It wasn't looking like we were going to hold on to that 1 goal lead. 7 points dropped now in the final 10 minutes of games suggests a real issue mentally with closing games out.

greendom

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

he normally wins the title in his second season

how much more quickly would you like, after the previous three seasons of shíte.

there was a belief that he would do it this season. If you look back to the poll at the start of the season it was won by Man Utd.

It seems there has been a bit of an expectation reset.

Rayne Wooney

Leroy42 wrote: »

What were the stats for the game?

2 shots on target, 75% passing accuracy. DDG made 5 saves against their 1.

Yes but we were the better team for about 70 minutes, the fact most of us are disappointed with a draw at Goodison says it all, City and Spurs have already been held to a point against Everton and I'm sure they'll do it to other teams ahead of us.

It's a big difference to last season.

martinr5232

bangkok wrote:

He signed carrick for Keane and he was a huge success. He signed plenty others too, Anderson was fantastic for a few seasons, veron but it didn't work out, tried to sign Xavi. Kleberson flopped as did djembe djemba

And played a young right back in midfield instead of playing pogba look how that turned out.