Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Trigger

Home vs Reading

Rossi IRL

Return of Jaap Stam, that is if he is still in charge of Reading by then.

Thepoet85

Reading at home.

jayo26

Got reading in old Trafford in third round the fa cup

edgecutter

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Ibra hasn't been all bad, far from it but yesterday I thought his passing was off and he was poor holding the ball up. Nice finish for goal but that's not enough for a supposed star man.

He is 35 and playing two matches in the space of few days. He has already clocked up 13 goals this season and will eclipse Martial's leading tally last year. I think he is exactly playing the way many felt, an ageing player but offers some class when needed

jimmytwotimes 2013

edgecutter wrote: »

He is 35 and playing two matches in the space of few days. He has already clocked up 13 goals this season and will eclipse Martial's leading tally last year. I think he is exactly playing the way many felt, an ageing player but offers some class when needed

Agree he's doing well at times but I would have thought holding the ball up would be a strength of his given his size.

Discodog

M!Ck^ wrote: »

That's what I still expect Jose to deliver yes
I also still expect him to challenge for the title
If not then as a fan that's a disappointing season in my eyes

This is what most non United fans will never understand. Unlike clubs that hope for success, we expect it. Jose said as much when he joined. Had Jose of immediately followed SAF we would of continued being successful. I think that a lot of the problems stem from players reverting to a LvG mentality.

It's our expectation that will drive the club into putting things right. Finishing top four is an objective but no United fan will be happy until we are back where we belong. Other Clubs would accept top 4. United never will.

Trigger

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Return of Jaap Stam, that is if he is still in charge of Reading by then.

Hi Zerks

Thepoet85 wrote: »

Reading at home.

Are you Zerks in disguise

jayo26 wrote: »

Got reading in old Trafford in third round the fa cup

ZERRRRRKS!

jayo26

astradave wrote: »

Hi Zerks



Are you Zerks in disguise



ZERRRRRKS!

It has to be 2 days old news to qualify for zerks alerts

The_Kew_Tour

Nice draw.

Leroy42

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Nice draw.

Yeah, but could've had all three points if it wasn't for Fellaini:D

Liam McPoyle

adox wrote: »

Of the two mentioned above I think Ibra has probably done better than I expected.
Pogba for sure has been a disappointment so far. Flashes of brilliance here and there but annonymous too often. It's hard to understand. When you see him yesterday, on one or two occasions receive the ball with his back to the opposition goal and shrug off a couple of opposition players and carry the ball forward you just wonder why he doesn't do it more often.
I've said it before but he looks to have all the tools to be the complete midfielder. I'd like to see him start deeper and have responsibility forced onto him. Would love to see him dictate games. I'm positive he has all the abilities to do so, maybe not the application or discipline at the moment.

My thoughts exactly.

When we signed Ibra I said I'd be happy if he could contribute around 30% of the goals he did last season.

He is on target to exceed that by a good margin.

The problem is that the goals Martial and Rashford were contributing have tried up so we are still no better off from a goal scoring PoV.

I think Mikhi will contribute with both goals and assists as he gets back to full match sharpness.

I really hope he starts Thursday as he needs to get minutes.

Pogs has been pretty much underwhelming thus far.

Not bad per se but certainly not at the level many were expecting.

He was scintillating against Southampton in his first game and he has yet to match or better that performance IMO.

Of course there is a massive weight of expectation on him given the ludicrous transfer fee and he was never going to justify the fee in his first season but I do think he will grow to be a very important player for us.

fuzzydunlop85

Jose doesn't seem to have notion what he is doing considering he had 6months to plot this job and compile a dossier on how he was going to 'fix' the club.

ElChe32

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Jose doesn't seem to have notion what he is doing considering he had 6months to plot this job and compile a dossier on how he was going to 'fix' the club.

Do you think that it's going to take only a few months to change the club after the trainwrecks of the two previous managers?

Leroy42

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Jose doesn't seem to have notion what he is doing considering he had 6months to plot this job and compile a dossier on how he was going to 'fix' the club.

Alternatively he knows exactly what he is doing, has already got the team playing much better and is left with players that are simply not capable of rising to the standard.

So he gave them a chance and will replace them next time around.

bucketybuck

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

he had 6months to plot this job and compile a dossier

Does that use the same paperwork as "preparing a bid"?

fuzzydunlop85

ElChe32 wrote: »

Do you think that it's going to take only a few months to change the club after the trainwrecks of the two previous managers?

Of course not but I thought he would have us more settled than we are now. It all seems very chaotic, especially with regards to actually getting something resembling a settled starting 11 together. I'm still not sure he knows what it is, I'm guessing he has been left very disillusioned by the standards in training and the attitudes of the squad. I will say I like what he is doing in this respect in stamping his authority on the squad, too many mercenaries for my liking. I still think he is the man to take us forward but think we gonna have to wait for next season till he clears out the deadwood.

IamtheWalrus

Leroy42 wrote: »

Alternatively he knows exactly what he is doing, has already got the team playing much better and is left with players that are simply not capable of rising to the standard.

So he gave them a chance and will replace them next time around.

I have no confidence that a January and a Summer window will have much impact on fortunes.

Leroy42

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I have no confidence that a January and a Summer window will have much impact on fortunes.

So what? You think there is no way out of this?

New manager is the only other option

deaddonkey15

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Of course not but I thought he would have us more settled than we are now. It all seems very chaotic, especially with regards to actually getting something resembling a settled starting 11 together. I'm still not sure he knows what it is, I'm guessing he has been left very disillusioned by the standards in training and the attitudes of the squad. I will say I like what he is doing in this respect in stamping his authority on the squad, too many mercenaries for my liking. I still think he is the man to take us forward but think we gonna have to wait for next season till he clears out the deadwood.

I really don't understand this necessity for Mourinho to know his best 11. Players get injured and go in and out of form all the time. Different opponents/playing conditions will require different tactics and line ups. Playing 6 or 7 games in a month will require changes to a line up due to fatigue alone. We have a relatively settled in spine de Gea, Bailly when fit, Pogba, Rooney/Mata, and Ibrahimovic. The likes of Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rooney, Lingard, Mata, Herrera are all interchangeable which is a good thing. Decent options - if used and rotated correctly - at DM in Carrick, Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger. Valencia has pretty much made the right back position his own and to be fair to him hasn't done much wrong. Either have the likes of Rojo and Jones and Blind who, whilst may not be the most inspiring options at centre half, have performed relatively well.

I think Mourinho is still learning a lot about the squad. If nothing else, yesterday showed that you do not bring on Fellaini to close out a game. Of course most people knew that anyway, but I don't think Mourinho will do it again any time soon. I'm sure he learned that he has to use Carrick sparingly now, that Mkhitaryan is worth his place in the first team, Schweinsteiger is worth a place in the squad, and that the best spot for Lingard is on the bench. He seems to value Herrera in the first team now, and he probably knows he can't trust Rojo long term too. It's easy to look at the league table and panic, but this team are a lot better than the table suggests. I for one am not worried at all, yet.

Hococop

I know lack of game time and all but I think Morgan would have been a better option as a late sub.

Hococop

Hococop wrote: »

I know lack of game time and all but I think Morgan would have been a better option as a late sub.

I agree in general, but unfortunately he didn't even make the bench yesterday.

secman

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I really don't understand this necessity for Mourinho to know his best 11. Players get injured and go in and out of form all the time. Different opponents/playing conditions will require different tactics and line ups. Playing 6 or 7 games in a month will require changes to a line up due to fatigue alone. We have a relatively settled in spine de Gea, Bailly when fit, Pogba, Rooney/Mata, and Ibrahimovic. The likes of Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rooney, Lingard, Mata, Herrera are all interchangeable which is a good thing. Decent options - if used and rotated correctly - at DM in Carrick, Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger. Valencia has pretty much made the right back position his own and to be fair to him hasn't done much wrong. Either have the likes of Rojo and Jones and Blind who, whilst may not be the most inspiring options at centre half, have performed relatively well.

I think Mourinho is still learning a lot about the squad. If nothing else, yesterday showed that you do not bring on Fellaini to close out a game. Of course most people knew that anyway, but I don't think Mourinho will do it again any time soon. I'm sure he learned that he has to use Carrick sparingly now, that Mkhitaryan is worth his place in the first team, Schweinsteiger is worth a place in the squad, and that the best spot for Lingard is on the bench. He seems to value Herrera in the first team now, and he probably knows he can't trust Rojo long term too. It's easy to look at the league table and panic, but this team are a lot better than the table suggests. I for one am not worried at all, yet.

So Mourinho is almost up to speed with most people and everyone else .... and yesterday he looked like shi. T... this catching up lark is taking a toll on the man, seriously. !

fuzzydunlop85

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I really don't understand this necessity for Mourinho to know his best 11. Players get injured and go in and out of form all the time. Different opponents/playing conditions will require different tactics and line ups. Playing 6 or 7 games in a month will require changes to a line up due to fatigue alone. We have a relatively settled in spine de Gea, Bailly when fit, Pogba, Rooney/Mata, and Ibrahimovic. The likes of Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rooney, Lingard, Mata, Herrera are all interchangeable which is a good thing. Decent options - if used and rotated correctly - at DM in Carrick, Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger. Valencia has pretty much made the right back position his own and to be fair to him hasn't done much wrong. Either have the likes of Rojo and Jones and Blind who, whilst may not be the most inspiring options at centre half, have performed relatively well.

I think Mourinho is still learning a lot about the squad. If nothing else, yesterday showed that you do not bring on Fellaini to close out a game. Of course most people knew that anyway, but I don't think Mourinho will do it again any time soon. I'm sure he learned that he has to use Carrick sparingly now, that Mkhitaryan is worth his place in the first team, Schweinsteiger is worth a place in the squad, and that the best spot for Lingard is on the bench. He seems to value Herrera in the first team now, and he probably knows he can't trust Rojo long term too. It's easy to look at the league table and panic, but this team are a lot better than the table suggests. I for one am not worried at all, yet.

I'm very worried, miss top 4 this year and we are really gonna struggle to attract the players necessary to get us back there.

sReq | uTeK

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

I'm very worried, miss top 4 this year and we are really gonna struggle to attract the players necessary to get us back there.

Rediculous statement. You throw enough money at anything and they will sign.

Case in point Paul Pogba.

bangkok

If we fail to make champions league next year Adidas deal is down 21m per season....that will be massive setback

Julez

bangkok wrote: »

If we fail to make champions league next year Adidas deal is down 21m per season....that will be massive setback

I know! Our revenue will be at £494.3m instead of £515.3m!!

In all seriousness though, its the player attraction I'd be more worried about.

Robson99

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

My thoughts exactly.

When we signed Ibra I said I'd be happy if he could contribute around 30% of the goals he did last season.

He is on target to exceed that by a good margin.

The problem is that the goals Martial and Rashford were contributing have tried up so we are still no better off from a goal scoring PoV.

In fairness neither of them have got a decent run up front and they are entitled to it. We are going nowhere if we are going to have a 35 year old centre forward playing 90% of our games.
I cant even think of the last time Ibra was taken off during a game. There s something wrong with that

RobertKK

It is hard to know where United are going at the minute.
- Some great performances.
- Drawing games we should win.
- losing bigly to Chelsea.

There is no consistency, but everything is there to be won at the same time.

The points gap to Chelsea is something that can be overcome if United go on a winning run - will it happen? I think most are a bit sceptical and when United sat back on their 1-0 lead on Sunday, it is not hard to be sceptical.

The Europa League is something we should try and win, given the prize is big and with league form like a constant draw...so a win on Thursday is vital.

The League Cup is a final we should make but it would be wrong to dismiss Hull.

The FA Cup, it would be good to retain it.

I think we could lose to Spurs again next Sunday, hope I am wrong, I won't see the match as I will be on a train in the Alps, and when I check the result, I think it is going to be sad, I hope I am wrong, the play from United is mostly good, didn't like the last 20 minutes of the Everton game, where United asked Everton to equalise. But Spurs have been mostly good and Kane has found his scoring boots. Maybe another draw...but given the team will have traveled to Ukraine I would not be surprised if they lose.

United have gone from good wins to draws to good wins recently. It is like the team feels the pressure with a cup competition, and against Everton after giving them the initiative by sitting back which led to an equaliser, then came back to life as they had to try and win again.
I didn't mind Rashford coming on, but Blind and Mata would have been better than Fellaini for more possession.
Mata for Mkhitaryan, and Blind for Rojo who does an inferior job to Blind.

It is frustrating...

J. Marston

RobertKK wrote: »

It is hard to know where United are going at the minute.
- Some great performances.
- Drawing games we should win.
- losing bigly to Chelsea.

There is no consistency, but everything is there to be won at the same time.

The points gap to Chelsea is something that can be overcome if United go on a winning run - will it happen? I think most are a bit sceptical and when United sat back on their 1-0 lead on Sunday, it is not hard to be sceptical.

And if Chelsea start forfeiting games for some reason.

Honestly, the league holds very little interest for me now since we stranded in the 5th-9th purgatory. All about the cups.

Liam O

bangkok wrote: »

If we fail to make champions league next year Adidas deal is down 21m per season....that will be massive setback

I seriously doubt they'll want to do anything to mess up their relationship with their biggest cash cow. By all accounts United make a higher % of shirt sales than a lot of other deals too. Up to 20% is what I've heard and there has been about 300m of Pogba and Zlatan shirts sold so there's probably 50 odd million extra there. 21m is small fry to this deal.

Agent Coulson

Liam O wrote: »

I seriously doubt they'll want to do anything to mess up their relationship with their biggest cash cow. By all accounts United make a higher % of shirt sales than a lot of other deals too. Up to 20% is what I've heard and there has been about 300m of Pogba and Zlatan shirts sold so there's probably 50 odd million extra there. 21m is small fry to this deal.

Adidas sold 300 million jerseys just with those two names?

Or is it they made £300m from the sales of jerseys with those two names?

If it's sales that means those two sold 5m man utd shirt at 60£€$ per jersey between them.

So in just over 5 months since those two were signed Adidas sold 5m man utd jerseys.

No way any of that can be right.

Liam McPoyle

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Adidas sold 300 million jerseys just with those two names?

Or is it they made £300m from the sales of jerseys with those two names?

If it's sales that means those two sold 5m man utd shirt at 60£€$ per jersey between them.

So in just over 5 months since those two were signed Adidas sold 5m man utd jerseys.

No way any of that can be right.

Ya, sounds a bit off tbh.

Maybe £30m as opposed to £300m.

bucketybuck

RobertKK wrote: »

There is no consistency,

Which is a hallmark of every team ever that was in any form of transition. The 3 years of muck that preceded it and the expectation that comes with a manager like Mourinho ensures little patience for inconsistency, but really it should be expected.

I think we could lose to Spurs again next Sunday

We are absolutely going to drop more points in the near future, we are not going to go on some ten game unbeaten run and there will be more performances like Everton to come. There will be drama after every draw or defeat but really thats just what is going to happen.

Liam O

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Ya, sounds a bit off tbh.

Maybe £30m as opposed to £300m.

Zlatan alone sold over 70m worth in the first week.

Liam McPoyle

Liam O wrote: »

Zlatan alone sold over 70m worth in the first week.

That would be circa 1.2 million jerseys shifted, mental if accurate.

paulbok

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

That would be circa 1.2 million jerseys shifted, mental if accurate.

I've always been sceptical of stories of jersey sales paying for mega transfers, United had sales of 1.4M shirts on avg between 2007 & 2012 (same as R.Madrid) but digging online those figures look legit. Adidas reported that Zlatan shirts had sales of £76M in the first week, Pogba with close to £200M in the first month so shirt sales have gone through the roof by the looks of it.
Now what % cut United get out of that is another story, 10-20%?

You would also think Adidas only pay that after a certain sales level has been reached on total jersey sales.
I remember seeing Adidas expected to make $1.5B (£1.2B) on the deal themselves over its lifetime, so probably a bonus on sales over £300M each year (75M shirt sponsorship, 120M yearly and cost of production, marketing etc).

Still, if those two had sales of ~£300M early in the season, you would easily assume total named and unnamed shirt sales is well over £500M by now so conservatively you could see £20M-£40M extra for United on top of the yearly £75M

Rayne Wooney

I wouldn't put a penny on our second string getting a point away to Zora. That's how bad things are

People are mental If they think a strong team won't be played,

Lukekul

With Zorya already out you would hope for a handy game, but with the "Big Boys" coming to town I'm sure they'll give it all they've got.

That and the trip to fecking Ukraine would have you nervous.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Lukekul wrote: »

With Zorya already out you would hope for a handy game, but with the "Big Boys" coming to town I'm sure they'll give it all they've got.
That and the trip to fecking Ukraine would have you nervous.

If Feyenoord beat Fenerbache do they go through ahead of them? what happens if we draw as well then?

Nailz

Lukekul wrote: »

With Zorya already out you would hope for a handy game, but with the "Big Boys" coming to town I'm sure they'll give it all they've got.

That and the trip to fecking Ukraine would have you nervous.

I honestly couldn't care less if we were dumped out of the EL, it's just a hindrance on our domestic performances. If it wasn't for all these midweek matches I think we'd have won more of our previous league games.

It'd be a different story if it was the Champions League, but a club like United shouldn't be too concerned by the EL. Regardless of how much we'd like to win everything we can, I think our season would benefit from less second tier European football from here on in.

After this Thursday, we have only PL matches until the Reading fixture next month. I think you'll see United pick up a string of wins over that period, due in part to an equal amount of fixtures to our opponents.

v3ttel

I'm surprised to see all this talk of jersey sales and Addidas money without anyone mentioning the fact that if we miss out on Champions League qualification for two consecutive seasons (which now looks likely), then the deal reduces from ~£80m to ~£50m per season. That's potentially £30m lost per season for the next 7 seasons.

Also, did anyone else notice this on Sky News? The "man in the hat" from the Brussels airport attack.....

As well as admitting that he had travelled to collect money in the UK, he also confirmed he had visited Manchester, taking pictures of Manchester United's ground at Old Trafford, as well as shopping centres and casinos around Birmingham.

http://news.sky.com/story/pair-convicted-after-giving-money-to-brussels-bomb-suspect-10685390

Nailz

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

If Feyenoord beat Fenerbache do they go through ahead of them? what happens if we draw as well then?

We'll finish first on head-to-head results.
Feyenoord would need to beat Fenerbahce by more than 1 goal to go through (permitting we draw/win against Zorya).

Rayne Wooney

Lukekul wrote: »

With Zorya already out you would hope for a handy game, but with the "Big Boys" coming to town I'm sure they'll give it all they've got.

That and the trip to fecking Ukraine would have you nervous.

A game seemingly impossible to not win is one we'd fcuk up.

Lucas Hood

v3ttel wrote: »

I'm surprised to see all this talk of jersey sales and Addidas money without anyone mentioning the fact that if we miss out on Champions League qualification for two consecutive seasons (which now looks likely), then the deal reduces from ~£80m to ~£50m per season. That's potentially £30m lost per season for the next 7 seasons.

That's not true according to espn.

"However, it has now emerged that, rather than see their Adidas payment drop to £52.5m immediately after two failed attempts to qualify for the Champions League, the £22.5m deduction figure will instead be spread over the full 10 years of the contract.

As a result, United will pay a catch-up penalty fee of £4.5m for years one and two of the agreement and then suffer a deduction of £2.25m from the annual £75m payment if Mourinho's team are unable to finish in the top four.

United will then continue to receive £72.75m from Adidas on an annual basis for the remainder of the deal, unless further failures to reach the Champions League trigger additional cuts to the figures banked by the club.

http://www.espnfc.com/manchester-united/story/2998135/manchester-united-face-adidas-penalty-if-they-miss-champions-league-again

v3ttel

v3ttel wrote: »

I'm surprised to see all this talk of jersey sales and Addidas money without anyone mentioning the fact that if we miss out on Champions League qualification for two consecutive seasons (which now looks likely), then the deal reduces from ~£80m to ~£50m per season. That's potentially £30m lost per season for the next 7 seasons.

Bangkok mentioned the reduction a few pages ago and that's what led to all this talk of jersey sales.

Did I just get a glimpse at your ignore list V3ttl?? :pac:

Rayne Wooney

I'm thinking the Fonte leaving in January news is down to Mourinho and Mendes

Badly needed to be honest

Liam O

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I'm thinking the Fonte leaving in January news is down to Mourinho and Mendes

Badly needed to be honest

Is he? I think the midfield and full backs are more at fault than the CBs for defensive shakiness. Which is why the team play so much better with Carrick as the deep option over Herrera who isn't a good defensive player at all. Ironically Schneiderlin doesn't seem to be either. Enjoyed much better seasons playing box to box for Southampton. Fellaini could do a job there but his long range passing isn't the best. Carrick, Schweinsteiger and Blind have obvious athletic deficiencies but I think I'd prefer them there to playing all the box to box players there.

Just writing the names of the CMs all down and even adding Pogba they probably make about 700k a week between them at a low estimate and can't play 3 of them in a cohesive manner. All combinations have problems. Should have sent Schneiderlin and something else to Leicester for Kante during the Summer.

After writing all that i realise I've gone on a tangent to what i was trying to say but I think Bailly, Jones (touch wood), Rojo, Smalling and Blind are all good options at CB and none have played badly this season.

Jayop

Liam O wrote: »

Is he? I think the midfield and full backs are more at fault than the CBs for defensive shakiness. Which is why the team play so much better with Carrick as the deep option over Herrera who isn't a good defensive player at all. Ironically Schneiderlin doesn't seem to be either. Enjoyed much better seasons playing box to box for Southampton. Fellaini could do a job there but his long range passing isn't the best. Carrick, Schweinsteiger and Blind have obvious athletic deficiencies but I think I'd prefer them there to playing all the box to box players there.

Just writing the names of the CMs all down and even adding Pogba they probably make about 700k a week between them at a low estimate and can't play 3 of them in a cohesive manner. All combinations have problems. Should have sent Schneiderlin and something else to Leicester for Kante during the Summer.

After writing all that i realise I've gone on a tangent to what i was trying to say but I think Bailly, Jones (touch wood), Rojo, Smalling and Blind are all good options at CB and none have played badly this season.

Exactly. When was the last time one of our CB's was seriously at fault for a goal that cost us a game?

Everton - Fellaini pen
West Ham - DeGea spilled shot (maybe someone could have been closer to the goalscorer)
Arsenal - Giroud header - out jumped Jones but he had a run and Jones was already marking someone. The cross shouldn't have come in.

That takes us all the way back to the Chelsea game in October since a goal last cost us points that you could say was caused by a CB.

Flint Fredstone

Jayop wrote: »

Exactly. When was the last time one of our CB's was seriously at fault for a goal that cost us a game?

Everton - Fellaini pen
West Ham - DeGea spilled shot (maybe someone could have been closer to the goalscorer)
Arsenal - Giroud header - out jumped Jones but he had a run and Jones was already marking someone. The cross shouldn't have come in.

That takes us all the way back to the Chelsea game in October since a goal last cost us points that you could say was caused by a CB.

You can turn that on its head and ask when have our CBs actually done anything of note?
Apart from Bailly, nobody has stood out at CB.
Jones and Rojo is not an inspiring partnership to have to rely on.