Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

You can turn that on its head and ask when have our CBs actually done anything of note?
Apart from Bailly, nobody has stood out at CB.
Jones and Rojo is not an inspiring partnership to have to rely on.

What should they do? They can't stop all goals in all games and their primary job is to prevent goals. Apart from the Chelsea game it's ages since we conceded more than 1 per game. They're getting involved in our build up play as much as I'd want and stopping everything that it's reasonable to expect them to.

The post we're replying to is that Fonte is badly needed. It's simply not ture. What do you want them to do? VanGaa had them playing as our play makers and it was atrocious to watch. Let them off to do their jobs which they are doing very well at the moment.

Robson99

Nailz wrote: »

I honestly couldn't care less if we were dumped out of the EL, it's just a hindrance on our domestic performances. If it wasn't for all these midweek matches I think we'd have won more of our previous league games.

It'd be a different story if it was the Champions League, but a club like United shouldn't be too concerned by the EL. Regardless of how much we'd like to win everything we can, I think our season would benefit from less second tier European football from here on in.

After this Thursday, we have only PL matches until the Reading fixture next month. I think you'll see United pick up a string of wins over that period, due in part to an equal amount of fixtures to our opponents.

The Europa League is probably the most important competition for us now because it is highly unlikely we are going to make top 4 and it is probably the best way for US to get C,L football next season

Flint Fredstone

Jayop wrote: »

What should they do? They can't stop all goals in all games and their primary job is to prevent goals. Apart from the Chelsea game it's ages since we conceded more than 1 per game. They're getting involved in our build up play as much as I'd want and stopping everything that it's reasonable to expect them to.

The post we're replying to is that Fonte is badly needed. It's simply not ture. What do you want them to do? VanGaa had them playing as our play makers and it was atrocious to watch. Let them off to do their jobs which they are doing very well at the moment.

That's the last time we didn't dominate a league game. Spurs will test them Sunday and you will see what happens.

Looked ropey against Fener, looked ropey as f*ck the last 20 minutes v Everton.

Bailly good. Smalling usually good but not playing well at all. Jones, been ok in games where he has had nothing much to do. Rojo is Rojo. Blind is brilliant in some departments and woefully lacking in others.

You can tell yourself we have adequate numbers and ability in those positions all you want. I disagree.

Robson99

Liam O wrote: »

Is he? I think the midfield and full backs are more at fault than the CBs for defensive shakiness. Which is why the team play so much better with Carrick as the deep option over Herrera who isn't a good defensive player at all. Ironically Schneiderlin doesn't seem to be either. Enjoyed much better seasons playing box to box for Southampton. Fellaini could do a job there but his long range passing isn't the best. Carrick, Schweinsteiger and Blind have obvious athletic deficiencies but I think I'd prefer them there to playing all the box to box players there.

Just writing the names of the CMs all down and even adding Pogba they probably make about 700k a week between them at a low estimate and can't play 3 of them in a cohesive manner. All combinations have problems. Should have sent Schneiderlin and something else to Leicester for Kante during the Summer.

After writing all that i realise I've gone on a tangent to what i was trying to say but I think Bailly, Jones (touch wood), Rojo, Smalling and Blind are all good options at CB and none have played badly this season.

Herrera is good enough to play in Carrick position and a far Better option than Fellani there
Yes I think we should gave gone all out for Kante. Thought he would gave been an ideal Murhino type player for the middle if the park.
Rojo and Blind are not good enough centre halfs for a top club. Rojo is actually a very poor centre half

StringerBell

Rojo has been better at cb then he has been a lb, but obviously an upgrade is in order.

Flint Fredstone

If we want to get back to where we were we need players as good as we had back then.

While it might not be showing too well at the moment, we have real quality all over the pitch bar defence IMO.

fuzzydunlop85

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Rediculous statement. You throw enough money at anything and they will sign.

Case in point Paul Pogba.

I think Pogba looked at it as 1 season out of the CL and he obviously has a strong connection and affinity for the club, bucket loads of cash help too. Don't think we should be singing any more players by 'throwing money at them'. It hasn't exactly worked out well for us recently. If we (probably) miss out in CL this year it could be be a positive transfer wise in that we would sign more unknown /younger players who suit the style we are trying to implement,want to prove themselves and have the desire to play for us. If we finished 6th this year and shelled out another 250k a week on another 'superstar', I would seriously question have to question their motives for the move and don't think that is the kind of player we want to be signing.

Liam O

Robson99 wrote: »

Herrera is good enough to play in Carrick position and a far Better option than Fellani there
Yes I think we should gave gone all out for Kante. Thought he would gave been an ideal Murhino type player for the middle if the park.
Rojo and Blind are not good enough centre halfs for a top club. Rojo is actually a very poor centre half

Herrera's version of defending is to hack the opposition player or let them go by. It's cost United this season already. Fellaini can play the hacking game but is far more trustworthy on a yellow than Herrera. His positioning is better and he's stronger. I don't think Herrera has much on him other than long passing in that position. Not that I'd have either playing there by choice but Fellaini is a way better option there now come on.

Blind was fantastic last season and the start of this season in CB. Rojo has also done well in the vast majority of games he's played there. Unlucky that he's gotten bad injuries and there was bad squad management meaning he was often unfit/having to play LB.

fuzzydunlop85

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Rediculous statement. You throw enough money at anything and they will sign.

Case in point Paul Pogba.

I think Pogba looked at it as 1 season out of the CL and he obviously has a strong connection and affinity for the club. Obviously bucket loads of cash help too. Don't think we should be singing any more players by 'throwing money at them'. It hasn't exactly worked out well for us recently. If we (probably) miss out in CL this year it could be be a positive transfer wise in that we would sign more unknown /younger players who suit the style we are trying to implement,want to prove themselves and have the desire to play for us. If we finished 6th this year and shelled out another 250k a week on another 'superstar', I would seriously question have to question their motives for the move and don't think that is the kind of player we want to be signing.

Jayop

StringerBell wrote: »

Rojo has been better at cb then he has been a lb, but obviously an upgrade is in order.

He's either our 4th or 5th choice CB.

Our problem and our only major problem in the league is our inability to take the chances that come our way to kill a game off. Whatever you think of the CB's and their ability they cannot be to blame for that.

Robson99

Liam O wrote: »

Herrera's version of defending is to hack the opposition player or let them go by. It's cost United this season already. Fellaini can play the hacking game but is far more trustworthy on a yellow than Herrera. His positioning is better and he's stronger. I don't think Herrera has much on him other than long passing in that position. Not that I'd have either playing there by choice but Fellaini is a way better option there now come on.

Blind was fantastic last season and the start of this season in CB. Rojo has also done well in the vast majority of games he's played there. Unlucky that he's gotten bad injuries and there was bad squad management meaning he was often unfit/having to play LB.

Herrera has got one red card, yet you think Fellani is much more trustworthy on a yellow.... . I'm not going back and over debating Fellani any more. The majority can see he us nit and never will be good enough for a team who should be challenging for the title.
Herrera has played the holding role earlier this season and played it very well. He is a footballer Fellani is not in the same league as him.
Do you seriously see us challenging for the title with Rojo and Blind playing centre half ??? Seriously

Jayop

Jesus I went back and watched that Chelsea game's goals again. That was painful viewing.

1-0 Hopeful punt upfield from LB which Smalling and Blind amazingly let Pedro get on the end of and round DeGea. Should have been easy to defend.
2-0 Corner which Fellaini flicked on for Cahill to poke home. He'd have been better off not heading it and letting someone behind him challenge than do what he did.
3-0 Mata lets his man run off him for an easy 1-2
4-0 Kante takes the piss out of Smalling to go around him in the box.

Every one of those shouldn't have happened.

bangkok

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

I think Pogba looked at it as 1 season out of the CL and he obviously has a strong connection and affinity for the club. Obviously bucket loads of cash help too. Don't think we should be singing any more players by 'throwing money at them'. It hasn't exactly worked out well for us recently. If we (probably) miss out in CL this year it could be be a positive transfer wise in that we would sign more unknown /younger players who suit the style we are trying to implement,want to prove themselves and have the desire to play for us. If we finished 6th this year and shelled out another 250k a week on another 'superstar', I would seriously question have to question their motives for the move and don't think that is the kind of player we want to be signing.

one of the biggest clubs in the world playing in a packed stadium in front of 75000 a week

Robson99

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

If we (probably) miss out in CL this year it could be be a positive transfer wise in that we would sign more unknown /younger players who suit the style we are trying to implement,want to prove themselves and have the desire to play for us.

We have young proven players at the club but the manager will not give them a decent run and prefers to play 35 year olds . What makes you think unknown/younger players will get a chance under Murhino.
IMO Rashford and martial deserve more game time up up front and Fosu mensah deserves more game time
When was the last time Ibra was taken off in a game???? A 35yo lone striker not being substituted is madness

bucketybuck

Robson99 wrote: »

We have young proven players at the club but the manager will not give them a decent run

Like who? If you mean Rashford and Martial they have both had plenty of games this season. Fosuh Mensah has played as much as any 18 year old at any big club should expect to play, so who are these proven young players not getting games?

fuzzydunlop85

Robson99 wrote: »

We have young proven players at the club but the manager will not give them a decent run and prefers to play 35 year olds . What makes you think unknown/younger players will get a chance under Murhino.
IMO Rashford and martial deserve more game time up up front and Fosu mensah deserves more game time
When was the last time Ibra was taken off in a game???? A 35yo lone striker not being substituted is madness

Fair points. Agreed with TFM,don't know what the hell has happened with him this season. I'm not entirely sold on Martial and still think Rashford is very raw(obviously given his age) but they definitely should be playing far more often than they have been, especially up front. I don't think he is necessarily one to promote youth, I'm just generally ****ed off by our transfer policy in general over the past few years and sick of us shelling out millions over the odds for average dross. In fairness the business for Bailley / Mhiki looks shrewd, so hoping he can continue in this vein.

bucketybuck

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

but they definitely should be playing far more often than they have been,

Rashford has already played 22 games for us this season. Martial has 17 games despite being badly out of form.

fuzzydunlop85

bucketybuck wrote: »

Rashford has already played 22 games for us this season. Martial has 17 games despite being badly out of form.

Up front I meant, Rashford especially is lost out wide.

Jayop

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Up front I meant, Rashford especially is lost out wide.

I agree to a point, but the game time will still serve him well.

Would love to see him getting more time up top though, especially if he;s coming on as a sub.

Lord TSC

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Up front I meant, Rashford especially is lost out wide.

Yeah, but in fairness to Ibrahimovic....

"Zlatan is 4th in the league for goals, 2nd for shots on target, 3rd for touches in the opposition box, 23rd for chances created (only behind Diego Costa and Romelu Lukaku in his position), and he’s made 249 passes ending in the final third, the best of any out-and-out striker."

I'm all for Rashford "getting his chance" and agree he shouldn't be out wide, but it's not like he's being kept out of the top spot by a scrub.

Robson99

fuzzydunlop85 wrote: »

Fair points. Agreed with TFM,don't know what the hell has happened with him this season. I'm not entirely sold on Martial and still think Rashford is very raw(obviously given his age) but they definitely should be playing far more often than they have been, especially up front. I don't think he is necessarily one to promote youth, I'm just generally ****ed off by our transfer policy in general over the past few years and sick of us shelling out millions over the odds for average dross. In fairness the business for Bailley / Mhiki looks shrewd, so hoping he can continue in this vein.

I agree with you on the shelling out of millions... Kante being a prime example mane another.
Yes Bailey and Mhiki look good buys so hopefully Murino will be able to get the right players in

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

Like who? If you mean Rashford and Martial they have both had plenty of games this season. Fosuh Mensah has played as much as any 18 year old at any big club should expect to play, so who are these proven young players not getting games?

When did they get a run of games in their natural positions????????

fuzzydunlop85

Lord TSC wrote: »

Yeah, but in fairness to Ibrahimovic....

"Zlatan is 4th in the league for goals, 2nd for shots on target, 3rd for touches in the opposition box, 23rd for chances created (only behind Diego Costa and Romelu Lukaku in his position), and he’s made 249 passes ending in the final third, the best of any out-and-out striker."

I'm all for Rashford "getting his chance" and agree he shouldn't be out wide, but it's not like he's being kept out of the top spot by a scrub.

No reason why he couldn't get a spin out in the cup games or be brought on as a sub, especially when Zlatan was in that bad run form. What does the last stat mean ? Are they successful passes? If so, that surprises me. Zlatan seems to lose a lot possession/send a lot of passes astray in the final third.

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

Like who? If you mean Rashford and Martial they have both had plenty of games this season. Fosuh Mensah has played as much as any 18 year old at any big club should expect to play, so who are these proven young players not getting games?

Mensah 1 game this season.... ya thats as much as we should play an upcoming talent.... maybe even 1 game to many

Jayop

Robson99 wrote: »

When did they get a run of games in their natural positions????????

Martial plays every game in his natural position. He's a left sided inside forward.


in my opinion obvs

bangkok

Jayop wrote: »

Martial plays every game in his natural position. He's a left sided inside forward.


in my opinion obvs

he said himself his best position is through the middle. i think it is as well

Jayop

bangkok wrote: »

he said himself his best position is through the middle. i think it is as well

Maybe that's the case, but in our system he's playing as a forward and they interchange plenty so he's not exactly out of position either.

Robson99

Jayop wrote: »

Martial plays every game in his natural position. He's a left sided inside forward.


in my opinion obvs

Personally I think he is a centre forward or left side of a front 3 in a 433.
Playing him and Rashford as part of a back 6 or 7 as has happened [and will continue in the big games with a 4231 formation] is not their natural positions.
Its the same as Barcelona asking neymar and Suarez to double up as fullbacks. Nuts

adox

Fellaini has rarely played an out and out defensive midfield role for the club but he did have a run of maybe 5-6 games earlier in the season there and he was excellent. He looked st his most comfortable there, barely gave away a free kick never mind picking up a booking and gave the defence fantastic protection and gave the likes of Pogba and Herrera the freedom to play their attacking games.

It's something that will be overlooked or forgotten after the hysteria of the weekend but, IMO in the cold light of day he is one of the strongest contenders in the squad for that position, albeit from a sample size of half a dozen games.

bucketybuck

Robson99 wrote: »

When did they get a run of games in their natural positions????????

Lets just get real here, if you think any manager is going to drop players like Zlatan or Rooney so he can play a 19 year old prospect up front for an extended run of games then you are dreaming. Doubly so a manager under a bit of pressure and who needs to win games, because this may shock you, if we drop Zlatan for Rashford up front our chance conversion will decrease, not increase.

Sure I think Zlatan has been overplayed and it would be nice to see the lads given a chance up front here and there, but it simply isn't going to happen that either gets a "run" of games, and it shouldn't happen. Rashford doesn't need that pressure on his shoulders and Martial hasn't earned it at present.

Natural positions my hole, they are young lads getting a lot of games at Manchester United, they are being handled just fine.

Robson99

adox wrote: »

Fellaini has rarely played an out and out defensive midfield role for the club but he did have a run of maybe 5-6 games earlier in the season there and he was excellent. He looked st his most comfortable there, barely gave away a free kick never mind picking up a booking and gave the defence fantastic protection and gave the likes of Pogba and Herrera the freedom to play their attacking games.

It's something that will be overlooked or forgotten after the hysteria of the weekend but, IMO in the cold light of day he is one of the strongest contenders in the squad for that position, albeit from a sample size of half a dozen games.

Fellani is not good enough either defensively [ constantly giving away needless free kicks ]and certainly nowhere near good enough of a ball player to play that role. His range of passing... actually his basic passing skills are very poor

Sand

Nailz wrote: »

I honestly couldn't care less if we were dumped out of the EL, it's just a hindrance on our domestic performances. If it wasn't for all these midweek matches I think we'd have won more of our previous league games.

Well, our domestic performances are poor and we lost those league games, so the EL is looking more and more like the best bet for getting CL next season. Or more accurately, getting CL by league performance is looking less and less likely.

bucketybuck

Robson99 wrote: »

Mensah 1 game this season.... ya thats as much as we should play an upcoming talent.... maybe even 1 game to many

I'm still waiting to hear about these "proven" young kids being held back?

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

Lets just get real here, if you think any manager is going to drop players like Zlatan or Rooney so he can play a 19 year old prospect up front for an extended run of games then you are dreaming. Doubly so a manager under a bit of pressure and who needs to win games, because this may shock you, if we drop Zlatan for Rashford up front our chance conversion will decrease, not increase.

Sure I think Zlatan has been overplayed and it would be nice to see the lads given a chance up front here and there, but it simply isn't going to happen that either gets a "run" of games, and it shouldn't happen. Rashford doesn't need that pressure on his shoulders and Martial hasn't earned it at present.

Natural positions my hole, they are young lads getting a lot of games at Manchester United, they are being handled just fine.

What other top club would play a 35 yo centre forward to has been inconsistent practically 100% of the time????
Given choice if 1 of them was to go in Jan which would you like to hold onto??

Jayop

Robson99 wrote: »

What other top club would play a 35 yo centre forward to has been inconsistent practically 100% of the time????
Given choice if 1 of them was to go in Jan which would you like to hold onto??

What other 35 year old is Zlatan?

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

I'm still waiting to hear about these "proven" young kids being held back?

I have stated martial and Rashford being played out of position. Mensah getting 1 yes 1 apperance. You could add Shaw being fuked about as well.

adox

Robson99 wrote: »

Fellani is not good enough either defensively [ constantly giving away needless free kicks ]and certainly nowhere near good enough of a ball player to play that role. His range of passing... actually his basic passing skills are very poor

I stated in my post that he gave away very few free kicks when playing that position. He's not chasing back from further forward which is when he gives away the majority of fouls. He wa incredibly disciplined when playing that role earlier in the season.

Also his passing is fine. He keeps the ball well under pressure and is tidy enough with his sort to mid range passing, which is all that is needed from a defensive midfielder.

Robson99

Jayop wrote: »

What other 35 year old is Zlatan?

Hes a good squad player to have. Not one we should be playing all the time and certainly its not the way to be building a team for the future,

Robson99

adox wrote: »

I stated in my post that he gave away very few free kicks when playing that position. He's not chasing back from further forward which is when he gives away the majority of fouls. He wa incredibly disciplined when playing that role earlier in the season.

Also his passing is fine. He keeps the ball well under pressure and is tidy enough with his sort to mid range passing, which is all that is needed from a defensive midfielder.

We will agree to disagree

adox

Robson99 wrote: »

What other top club would play a 35 yo centre forward to has been inconsistent practically 100% of the time????
Given choice if 1 of them was to go in Jan which would you like to hold onto??

How can you be inconsistent 100% of the time. If you do something 100% of the time that by definition is consistent. :pac:

adox

Robson99 wrote: »

Hes a good squad player to have. Not one we should be playing all the time and certainly its not the way to be building a team for the future,

He's done more than enough to justify his place in the team.

No one thought we were building a team for the future with Zlatan. 1-2 years was the gig with hopefully a fair chunk of his consistent goal rate and a strong character in the dressing room.

Zlatan has been a success so far in my book.

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Fellaini has rarely played an out and out defensive midfield role for the club but he did have a run of maybe 5-6 games earlier in the season there and he was excellent. He looked st his most comfortable there, barely gave away a free kick never mind picking up a booking and gave the defence fantastic protection and gave the likes of Pogba and Herrera the freedom to play their attacking games.

It's something that will be overlooked or forgotten after the hysteria of the weekend but, IMO in the cold light of day he is one of the strongest contenders in the squad for that position, albeit from a sample size of half a dozen games.

in the cold light of day, he is too slow, poor passing, gives away too many fouls, even osman who was his team mate for years said the other day you want fellaini as far away from your box as possibly as he is clumsy.

By next summer himself, Rojo and Depay will no longer be part of the squad imo. 3 very average players

https://twitter.com/ManUtdVines/status/806206886404091905

Regardless of our struggles it's still exciting times. Still can't believe we signed him. He's that good.

fuzzydunlop85

bangkok wrote: »

in the cold light of day, he is too slow, poor passing, gives away too many fouls, even osman who was his team mate for years said the other day you want fellaini as far away from your box as possibly as he is clumsy.

By next summer himself, Rojo and Depay will no longer be part of the squad imo. 3 very average players

Scheinderlin, Darmian, Bastian also please.

Robson99

adox wrote: »

How can you be inconsistent 100% of the time. If you do something 100% of the time that by definition is consistent. :pac:

You and those that thanked you have read my post wrong. Let me re word it for you. An inconsistant 35 yo has played nearly 100% of the time. Comprehend

adox

Robson99 wrote: »

You and those that thanked you have read my post wrong. Let me re word it for you. An inconsistant 35 yo has played nearly 100% of the time. Comprehend

It was meant in jest.

Robson99

adox wrote: »

He's done more than enough to justify his place in the team.

No one thought we were building a team for the future with Zlatan. 1-2 years was the gig with hopefully a fair chunk of his consistent goal rate and a strong character in the dressing room.

Zlatan has been a success so far in my book.

So which would you hold onto if it came down to it???

adox

bangkok wrote: »

in the cold light of day, he is too slow, poor passing, gives away too many fouls, even osman who was his team mate for years said the other day you want fellaini as far away from your box as possibly as he is clumsy.

By next summer himself, Rojo and Depay will no longer be part of the squad imo. 3 very average players

I've already addressed the points that you are making about his fouling and passing.

I couldn't give a flying **** what Osman says. I'm giving my opinion on what I've seen of him playing in a position in which he has rarely been played.

adox

Robson99 wrote: »

So which would you hold onto if it came down to it???

Which what would I hold onto?

bangkok

adox wrote: »

I've already addressed the points that you are making about his fouling and passing.

I couldn't give a flying **** what Osman says. I'm giving my opinion on what I've seen of him playing in a position in which he has rarely been played.

because he is not good enough to play there