Milk Price III

alps

MILK & DAIRY ESTABLISHMENTS 
APPROVED AND / OR REGISTERED UNDER S.I. NO 432 OF 2009

Sorry...thought I could paste the full list...didn't work

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

Have a coolree one here too. It says ie number see lid ec. I can not see an ie number on the lid. It does have the ndc logo and says farmed in the republic of Ireland. Its a 3litre container

No offense but why as dairy farmers are you buying milk from a shop? There is a growing school of thought that unpasteurized milk is actually much better for you than that homogenised stuff.

M three

Farmer Ed wrote: »

No offense but why as dairy farmers are you buying milk from a shop? There is a growing school of thought that unpasteurized milk is actually much better for you than that homogenised stuff.

Im not a farmer so dont have that luxury.
Started shopping in lidl and wondered where this coolree creamery irish fresh milk was from.
No such place exists as far as I can see.
I think at best its odd, at worst its misleading branding. Im aware the suppliers are paid a crap price for milk so im keen to buy milk that actually benefits ROI suppliers.

whelan2

Farmer Ed wrote: »

No offense but why as dairy farmers are you buying milk from a shop? There is a growing school of thought that unpasteurized milk is actually much better for you than that homogenised stuff.

We stopped using our own milk years ago when we got locked up with tb. Real milk from the tank is very nice and we do use it sometimes , I use the extra low fat milk which bulk tank milk is not

Mooooo

Farmer Ed wrote: »

No offense but why as dairy farmers are you buying milk from a shop? There is a growing school of thought that unpasteurized milk is actually much better for you than that homogenised stuff.

We used it here years ago but dad stopped it after cows had a salmonella outbreak. While it may be better there are risks associated particularly with old and young in the house. I know of a few that have bought a pasteuriser for the house alright

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

We stopped using our own milk years ago when we got locked up with tb. Real milk from the tank is very nice and we do use it sometimes , I use the extra low fat milk which bulk tank milk is not

The low fat diet is also beginning be questioned. Apparently a lot of the research linking fat to health problems was funded by the sugar industry. Also Harvard research has linked low fat milk to children being overweight. It is partly why kerrygold butter has become so popular in the US. So don't feel guilty about going to the bulk tank.

Farmer Ed

I'm probably hanging around too many hippies. But honestly I think we have all been sold some alternative facts from people who's sole aim is to make money. https://draxe.com/raw-milk-benefits/

Farmer Ed

Looks like it will be paid on time after all. http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/milk-reduction-scheme-payments-to-be-issued-to-dairy-farmers-this-week/

The part time boy

When I was milking I stopped using our own Milk years ago. I bring up a jug in the morning and then someone would come along with there cornflakes not stir the milk and take all the cream. You only be left with water after that !

kowtow

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I'm probably hanging around too many hippies. But honestly I think we have all been sold some alternative facts from people who's sole aim is to make money. https://draxe.com/raw-milk-benefits/

I think the statistical bias in that article is pretty bad as well ... it's not surprising that such a tiny proportion of illness comes from raw milk when raw milk is more or less illegal in most Western countries!

But you are absolutely right - unsurprisingly the people most in favour of compulsory pasteurisation are those who own the biggest pasteurisers, - the milk processing factories. Sadly for dairy farmers they are also the only buyer for milk and they frequently have a monopoly position over any given farm, one which is made stronger if they can make themselves the only legal route to market.

And pasteurisation itself was a response - in large part - not to the inherent dangers of milk but to the dangers of the early, dirty, factory farms - when city populations exploded during the industrial revolution herds had to get larger and move, more or less, into the cities themselves where they were milked in foul conditions and disease of all sorts was rife.

There is no question in my mind that pasture raised raw milk from cows you know to be healthy is and always was the best of all milks, and has health benefits which the pasteurised (and certainly the homogenised) product simply does not. It also tastes (as does the cheese, cream and butter) totally different to the industrial equivalent.

The tiny raw milk industry gets a very hard deal from the regulators (just look at the current battle with Errington cheese in Scotland) while the same regulators encourage large factory operations to regulate themselves and write the rule book everyone must adhere to.

Raw milk and raw milk products are connected to a tiny pin prick of food poisoning cases compared with the factory processed chicken which moves through our "food system" in various forms every day - but cheap chicken and the grains which make it are a staple of the glorious agrifood industry and makes serious money, whereas raw milk is the domain of happy cows and hippies who should know better than to choose a product just because it tastes much better and is good for them.

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

I think the statistical bias in that article is pretty bad as well ... it's not surprising that such a tiny proportion of illness comes from raw milk when raw milk is more or less illegal in most Western countries!

But you are absolutely right - unsurprisingly the people most in favour of compulsory pasteurisation are those who own the biggest pasteurisers, - the milk processing factories. Sadly for dairy farmers they are also the only buyer for milk and they frequently have a monopoly position over any given farm, one which is made stronger if they can make themselves the only legal route to market.

And pasteurisation itself was a response - in large part - not to the inherent dangers of milk but to the dangers of the early, dirty, factory farms - when city populations exploded during the industrial revolution herds had to get larger and move, more or less, into the cities themselves where they were milked in foul conditions and disease of all sorts was rife.

There is no question in my mind that pasture raised raw milk from cows you know to be healthy is and always was the best of all milks, and has health benefits which the pasteurised (and certainly the homogenised) product simply does not. It also tastes (as does the cheese, cream and butter) totally different to the industrial equivalent.

The tiny raw milk industry gets a very hard deal from the regulators (just look at the current battle with Errington cheese in Scotland) while the same regulators encourage large factory operations to regulate themselves and write the rule book everyone must adhere to.

Raw milk and raw milk products are connected to a tiny pin prick of food poisoning cases compared with the factory processed chicken which moves through our "food system" in various forms every day - but cheap chicken and the grains which make it are a staple of the glorious agrifood industry and makes serious money, whereas raw milk is the domain of happy cows and hippies who should know better than to choose a product just because it tastes much better and is good for them.

I suppose the prof of the pudding is that humans have consumed raw milk for thousands of years and if it were so dangerous surely they would have figured that out a long time before pasteurisation. The reality is that pasteurisation adds shelve life to milk. Like most of the processed food we find in our supermarkets. Shelve life takes priority over the long term health implications of the food we consume.

Fixture

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I suppose the prof of the pudding is that humans have consumed raw milk for thousands of years and if it were so dangerous surely they would have figured that out a long time before pasteurisation. The reality is that pasteurisation adds shelve life to milk. Like most of the processed food we find in our supermarkets. Shelve life takes priority over the long term health implications of the food we consume.

Pasteurisation has saved millions of lives. Raw milk is fine for us raised on it and with a short distance between milking parlour and our fridge. Too risky for Joe and Joan Public!

Water John

Milk going sour doesn't harm any one.
The main reason why farm families moved to bought pastuerised milk was in the 1970/80s the risk of brucellosis transfer, causing undulant fever in humans. That risk is no longer with us.

The breakdown of fats into smaller globules with homogenisation may not be in our health interest and thus not in the farmers interest either.
We would absorb less of the fat if it was not homogenised, I would think.

There is obviously a great nervousness of the milk processing industry, mirrored by the Dept of Ag of any milk scare. Funny they think raw milk as the biggest risk. This is not the case. The biggest risk is of one of the main processors getting something wrong and with the present chain of food having a widespread damage.

kowtow

Fixture wrote:

Pasteurisation has saved millions of lives. Raw milk is fine for us raised on it and with a short distance between milking parlour and our fridge. Too risky for Joe and Joan Public!

Joe and Joan public eat food just like the rest of us. We grow food.

It's not rocket science, just somewhere along the way we've allowed Joan and Joe to be sold the story that food from the farm is valueless and dangerous a big factory has made things right so they can eat it.

Food is most valuable at the moment of harvest, and yet that's the point where the price is lowest. The human is the only animal Stupid enough to accept this ridiculous nonsense.

Farmer Ed

John and Joan public are now more likely to suffer from allergies their ancestors never suffered from. It now widely believed by many and even my own GP that lack of exposure to bacteria is compromising people's immune systems. Personally I have drank raw milk all my life and the last time I got the flu was 16 years ago. I also know several mothers who drank raw milk all during pregnancy as they believed it was good for them. They are all still alive and well.

Water John

Ed has never got man flu.

Farmer Ed

Water John wrote: »

Ed has never got man flu.

Maybe I'm a woman trapped in a mans body? Or the raw milk could just be full of estrogen? I have heard of strange things happen to people who drink soya milk .

If only! I could have had a career in politics and you'd all have to be nice to me.

whelan2

Milk price thread, indeed :rolleyes:

Farmer Ed

whelan2 wrote: »

Milk price thread, indeed :rolleyes:

So how much are you paying for milk at the moment?

alps

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Milk reduction money to come this week.

http://m.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/cashflow-boost-for-dairy-farmers-35569570.html?utm_content=bufferedf2e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Notification in the post this morning....

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

Notification in the post this morning....

wOOt:D


Paid on the 30th, notification on agfood this morning but nothing in my account yet. I was getting a bit worried because nothing was showing up on agfood, tbh:o

Farmer Ed

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

wOOt:D


Paid on the 30th, notification on agfood this morning but nothing in my account yet. I was getting a bit worried because nothing was showing up on agfood, tbh:o

To be fair there are just a couple of people working in that office but from what I am hearing back they are pretty decent old skins. So hopefully they will do their best. The same can't be said for all offices in the department unfortunately.

boggerman1

For those that get it dont spend it wisely!

kevthegaff

Money for jam!

Buford T. Justice XIX

boggerman1 wrote: »

For those that get it dont spend it wisely!

I wish:(

kevthegaff wrote: »

Money for jam!

It suited me perfectly, I was going to have to dry the cows up early anyway so I got paid for milk I would have lost out on producing:)

Off now to pay the contractor for the late silage cut, the man is very good to me tbh:)

Farmer Ed

kevthegaff wrote: »

Money for jam!

No thanks to our misters and the IFA. They did their best to stop it. Like you said money for jam for anyone who happened to qualify.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/europe-agrees-controversial-plan-for-cuts-in-milk-production-1.2572619%3Fmode%3Damp

rangler1

Farmer Ed wrote: »

No thanks to our misters and the IFA. They did their best to stop it. Like you said money for jam for anyone who happened to qualify.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/europe-agrees-controversial-plan-for-cuts-in-milk-production-1.2572619%3Fmode%3Damp

It's a complete joke that two neighbours can get paid twice for the one tank of milk just by getting it collected in a different yard ffs

Farmer Ed

rangler1 wrote: »

It's a complete joke that two neighbours can get paid twice for the one tank of milk just by getting it collected in a different yard ffs

If such a thing did happen it would be totally illegal.

alps

Check out this Article I found - http://www.farmersjournal.ie/us-cheese-stocks-reach-all-time-high-266775

This is not the news we want to hear. Concern also on our own marketing front as increased levels of production here are going to have to be put towards SMP as the summer flush begins. Very likely intervention will have to open to take this surplus SMP.

We might have been able to build reserves in the past to pull through a tough time, but there may be no opportunity this time.

I do fear our industry backed the wrong horse in not producing what the consumer wants, rather than producing what the industry wants to produce and then hoping the consumer will buy.

Water John

Almost all processors have banked on using SMP or WMP for the peak supply.

SMP would be largely from making cheese. Cheese and SNP with their long shelf lives would be a good use for peak milk, since both products can be stored and offloaded at some other time of the year.
Peak yield would not be used for a consumer good with a short shelf life. Your core production should be more aimed in that direction. Sadly, most are not.

Most processors have taken the route of largely producing anything, easy to produce in bulk with a margin. Its called lazy management. Draw the salary little headache, except the annoying farmer whinging about the price.

pedigree 6

Anyone know what Danone at the wexford creamery site in wexford is going to produce?
Some serious work going on down there at the moment and yellow jackets everywhere.

Fixture

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Anyone know what Danone at the wexford creamery site in wexford is going to produce?
Some serious work going on down there at the moment and yellow jackets everywhere.

Infant formula packing at Danone in Wexford. They've a serious sized plant in Macroom too.

New Glanbia cheese plant being built at the same location so that might be some of the yellow jackets!

Fixture

Water John wrote: »

Almost all processors have banked on using SMP or WMP for the peak supply.

SMP would be largely from making cheese. Cheese and SNP with their long shelf lives would be a good use for peak milk, since both products can be stored and offloaded at some other time of the year.
Peak yield would not be used for a consumer good with a short shelf life. Your core production should be more aimed in that direction. Sadly, most are not.

Most processors have taken the route of largely producing anything, easy to produce in bulk with a margin. Its called lazy management. Draw the salary little headache, except the annoying farmer whinging about the price.

Butter and skim. Butter is flying according to market reports, hence skim byproduct.

By product of Cheese is whey , not skim

hurling_lad

I just have a general question on milk price: under the A + B - C system, does anyone have a formula for translating your actual litres, P% & F% at the standard c/l price to an actual c/l price in advance of getting the breakdown with the milk cheque?

For example, Glanbia Feb price is 31c/l VAT incl. at standard solids of 3.3%P and 3.6%F but A and B in the A + B - C formula are prices per KG solids with C being 4c/l deducted. I have determined that the price per Kilo for Protein is 2.3 times the price for Fat, but otherwise, I can't see how they derive the price per kilo P and F from the price per litre at standard composition.

Does anyone have a handle on this?

hurling_lad

Fixture wrote: »

Butter and skim. Butter is flying according to market reports, hence skim byproduct.

By product of Cheese is whey , not skim

Yeah - as far as I know, the processors break whole milk down to one of the following three combinations:
- Whole Milk Powder
- Butter (i.e. Cream) + Skim Milk Powder
- Butter + Cheese (or Casein powder) + Whey

Water John

Your absolutely right there Hurling Lad. It is indeed butter making gives you SMP. Butter is even simpler to make than cheese.
We have been doing it and exporting it from Cork for a couple of hundred years. Originally we used the skim to feed humans. Later as we got a bit more wealthy, we fed it to the pigs.
Today we simply make powder out of it and flog it.
Remarkable technological and consumer driven change???

Timmaay

hurling_lad wrote: »

I just have a general question on milk price: under the A + B - C system, does anyone have a formula for translating your actual litres, P% & F% at the standard c/l price to an actual c/l price in advance of getting the breakdown with the milk cheque?

For example, Glanbia Feb price is 31c/l VAT incl. at standard solids of 3.3%P and 3.6%F but A and B in the A + B - C formula are prices per KG solids with C being 4c/l deducted. I have determined that the price per Kilo for Protein is 2.3 times the price for Fat, but otherwise, I can't see how they derive the price per kilo P and F from the price per litre at standard composition.

Does anyone have a handle on this?

OK, take the glanbia price of 31c, that works out at 6.65e/kg of protein, and 2.89e/kg bf. In the below formula take A as your protein and B as your fat (both in %)


((((A x 6.65) + (B x 2.89))x1.035) - 4) x 1.054

In the above 1.035 is the density of milk, and 5.4 the vat rate.

I've fired this all into a spreadsheet (while I sit here wasting my morning at the mart ha), in this example I've put in my March figures of protein at 3.6, and bf at 4.2, and got out an expected price of 35.2c/L.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with any of the above, I already see a small Rounding mistake of some sort, the base price should be working out bang on 31c, not the 31.1c ha.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/196m044UJNmn-BQk7jgnYaVG2_7U2ZdI1a9JW5kQLATE/edit?usp=drivesdk

alps

Timmaay wrote: »

OK, take the glanbia price of 31c, that works out at 6.65e/kg of protein, and 2.89e/kg bf. In the below formula take A as your protein and B as your fat (both in %)


((((A x 6.65) + (B x 2.89))x1.035) - 4) x 1.054

In the above 1.035 is the density of milk, and 5.4 the vat rate.

I've fired this all into a spreadsheet (while I sit here wasting my morning at the mart ha), in this example I've put in my March figures of protein at 3.6, and bf at 4.2, and got out an expected price of 35.2c/L.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with any of the above, I already see a small Rounding mistake of some sort, the base price should be working out bang on 31c, not the 31.1c ha.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/196m044UJNmn-BQk7jgnYaVG2_7U2ZdI1a9JW5kQLATE/edit?usp=drivesdk

Classy Timmaay

Some coops pay a bonus for things like SCC etc. This can be paid in c/l and have the effect of reducing the "C" element of the calculation, and actually become A+B+C in some cases.

We'll get people to buy your programme if you could slot that into the equation...😎

Fixture

alps wrote: »

Classy Timmaay

Some coops pay a bonus for things like SCC etc. This can be paid in c/l and have the effect of reducing the "C" element of the calculation, and actually become A+B+C in some cases.

We'll get people to buy your programme if you could slot that into the equation...😎

Very good

Another way of doing it is go to your milk statement and find the value per 0.10% fat and 0.10% protein. It's on the milk statement (but hard to find).

So if you have 4.00% fat and 3.5% protein, your milk value should be 40 x bf value per 0.1% and 35 x 0.1% protein value.

K.G.

Simple way to do it,divide the check by the litres

Fixture

K.G. wrote: »

Simple way to do it,divide the check by the litres

I think the question was how to do it before you get the cheque...

Injuryprone

Timmaay wrote: »

OK, take the glanbia price of 31c, that works out at 6.65e/kg of protein, and 2.89e/kg bf. In the below formula take A as your protein and B as your fat (both in %)


((((A x 6.65) + (B x 2.89))x1.035) - 4) x 1.054

In the above 1.035 is the density of milk, and 5.4 the vat rate.

I've fired this all into a spreadsheet (while I sit here wasting my morning at the mart ha), in this example I've put in my March figures of protein at 3.6, and bf at 4.2, and got out an expected price of 35.2c/L.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with any of the above, I already see a small Rounding mistake of some sort, the base price should be working out bang on 31c, not the 31.1c ha.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/196m044UJNmn-BQk7jgnYaVG2_7U2ZdI1a9JW5kQLATE/edit?usp=drivesdk

Hate to be the pedantic pat but it's actually 665 e/kg of protein and 289 e/kg of bfat.

What i never could figure out is how they come up with those 2 figures. For example, for a basic price of 31c, Dairygold pays 639 e/kg protein and 315 e/kg bfat

Timmaay

Injuryprone wrote: »

Hate to be the pedantic pat but it's actually 665 e/kg of protein and 289 e/kg of bfat.

What i never could figure out is how they come up with those 2 figures. For example, for a basic price of 31c, Dairygold pays 639 e/kg protein and 315 e/kg bfat

Yeh your right, I got lazy and left it as 6.65 and 2.89 because it conveniently cancelled out the divide by 100 in the protein and fat percents ha.

On how it's calculated, Glanbia have a fixed pr to bf price ratio of 2.3, we already have one formula of milk price = a+b-c (were c is always 4c/l), using the ratio above, our 2nd formula is a/b =2.3. When glanbia decide it will set a milk price of 31c, all they need to do is put that into the 1st formula, and then solve for a and b using the 2 formulas above.

And of course, the price of 31c is actually with the vat refund amount included, Glanbia only have to cough up 29.3c for each litre, the tax man gives us the other 1.7c, it sounds much better from Glanbias front that we are being paid 31c and not 29.3c though ha.

Wildsurfer

Tims formula isn't working out correctly for me when I tested it on my figures for Jan milk, Dairygold supplier so wondering is it because of assurance bonus? I adjusted protein and Fat figures to 639 and 315. If anyone wants to do out an example that would be handy. Should know this stuff glad the topic was raised

Farmer Ed

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-milk-production-continues-to-fall-in-2017/

After the expected increase as quotas were removed, is the mad rush to expand over? Dairy farmers are getting older and I'm not sure there is enough young people interested in this way of life? Was harvest 2020 just a wet dream? Or are the plans for 2025 just simply a disillusion ?

freedominacup

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-milk-production-continues-to-fall-in-2017/

After the expected increase as quotas were removed, is the mad rush to expand over? Dairy farmers are getting older and I'm not sure there is enough young people interested in this way of life? Was harvest 2020 just a wet dream? Or are the plans for 2025 just simply a disillusion ?

Glanbia are getting plenty of enquiries from prospective new entrants according to what I was told during the week. At least one new entrant in my locality next spring. Maidens bought. Short term plan to milk 200.

mahoney_j

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-milk-production-continues-to-fall-in-2017/

After the expected increase as quotas were removed, is the mad rush to expand over? Dairy farmers are getting older and I'm not sure there is enough young people interested in this way of life? Was harvest 2020 just a wet dream? Or are the plans for 2025 just simply a disillusion ?

Nothing story really as a lot are not starting to calve now till early Feb ,I'm betting March figures will be up ,milk man telling me yesterday milk starting to pour in now

leg wax

same here , moo juice express driver only saying this morn ,loads up ,driver down ,

whelan2

Seems to be a few getting out too.

mahoney_j

whelan2 wrote: »

Seems to be a few getting out too.

Big dairy area around here ,no new entrants in my locality but everyone increasing nos and output by 20/50% .land for rent scarce and making fancy money