Milk Price III

Water John

The shares required in the coop should be the mechanism for equalising new and existing supplier/members, not the price for milk.

mahoney_j

alps wrote: »

Quiet a number of things at play. Ornua is returning the 31c for a basket of goods if your coop supplies that basket profile. Also I'm interested to know if ornua are taking the same percentage product from each supplier that it did during quotas. What I mean is, if milk production has increased by 50%, have Ornua sales increased by 50%? I'm suspicious that coops are left to their own devices to sell much more product than they have had to historically, or have the capability of selling.

I'm also led to believe that some coops have huge numbers of new enterant application of late, so big that decisions will need to be taken as to whether these will be accepted, or if coops will have to go down the route of further stainless steel costs to cater for this new enterant milk.

And the debate is surfacing in board rooms as to who should pay for this, with one board with proposals mooted for an increased fee for new milk..

Personally I think new entrants milking for first time should have to pay more to get in ,im currently paying 0.5 cent into a revolving fund for Arrabawn as part of my share up to match supply ,I’ve bought quota ,leased quota thru the years and don’t see why a new entrant comming in for first time and a lot with capacity to milk big numbers and supply big volume of milk should be given any sweetners of any make up .lot of these especially those converting from beef will be getting a lot bigger bps Cheque than most .

visatorro

Timmaay wrote: »

Alps if I remember correctly that was Glanbias original idea, a 2sec levy on all milk over your quota supply (which meant a 100% levy for new entrants) to pay for stainless, that idea got dropped when Stathroy came into the market and stole a good few Wexford suppliers.

Was told that was coming in for new suppliers to glanbia. Put fellas off allegedly. That's third hand info...

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

Brexit is totally unknown tho at this stage as regards if they’ll def go and if they do will they crash out ,no one knows ,everyone gets a margin bar the ejet at the coal face every day

Every load of milk crossing the border will require its own set of permits and paperwork if a hard Brexit happens.

Collections that cross over and back across the border will have to be stopped as they will need a separate set for each time it crosses over and back. More than likely, animals will have to be treated the same.

I dearly hope someone high up in British politics starts smelling the coffee fairly soon because neither side is in any way adequately prepared for the mess that's going explode on the 31st October:(

mahoney_j

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Every load of milk crossing the border will require its own set of permits and paperwork if a hard Brexit happens.

Collections that cross over and back across the border will have to be stopped as they will need a separate set for each time it crosses over and back. More than likely, animals will have to be treated the same.

I dearly hope someone high up in British politics starts smelling the coffee fairly soon because neither side is in any way adequately prepared for the mess that's going explode on the 31st October:(

I’ve just had nearly 30 cousins call here all from the UK ,some have business and work for companies that trade over and back with us and the north .there all of the opinion brexit will happen and it will be a hard brexit unless the eu give in on the backstop .borris Johnson whilst controversial and a bit mad has support and its growing within the UK .if it happens we’re in for a very rough time

alps

No chance of a No Deal Brexit...

Most likely scenario is another extension...Borris may be brash and bold but he's not suicidal.. Election shortly afterwards if Boris can keep any positive spin on himself...jettison the DUP and take the deal...
"Border" in the Irish sea..free trade...as you were boys..

What's PP offering?

mahoney_j

alps wrote: »

No chance of a No Deal Brexit...

Most likely scenario is another extension...Borris may be brash and bold but he's not suicidal.. Election shortly afterwards if Boris can keep any positive spin on himself...jettison the DUP and take the deal...
"Border" in the Irish sea..free trade...as you were boys..

What's PP offering?

World is pretty screwed up tho ,who would of though they would vote to leave ,who could of predicted trump would be American president snd remain so this long ,now borris is head man across the pond !!!!snd jaysus Mary Lou was out at a meat factory last weekend protesting (photo op)with beef farmers !!!

alps

Water John wrote: »

The shares required in the coop should be the mechanism for equalising new and existing supplier/members, not the price for milk.

No...shares problematic re selling, gifting, taxing...massive opportunity missed by the industry that it didn't go down the friesland campina route of linking production to bonds (license), controlled price by the coop of 4c/l, only to be held by and directly linked to your production, with all dividends paid relative to your bondhilding ie only to the litre of milk..

Marvelous system that could still be brought in here if coops were brave enough...

Gawddawggonnit

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Every load of milk crossing the border will require its own set of permits and paperwork if a hard Brexit happens.

Collections that cross over and back across the border will have to be stopped as they will need a separate set for each time it crosses over and back. More than likely, animals will have to be treated the same.

I dearly hope someone high up in British politics starts smelling the coffee fairly soon because neither side is in any way adequately prepared for the mess that's going explode on the 31st October:(

Takes two to tango Chief.

Leo, being the good European that he is, hasn’t exactly helped the situation either. The position that the Irish Gov have taken is impossible to politik their way out of.
I can’t figure out why the Irish Gov, completely at the instigation of the Eu, could try and lever the UK into such an unsustainable position...and the UK being their largest single trading partner! The UK have for many years protected and supported the ‘special’ tax status of Ireland within the European Parliament. When the Brexit situation eventually becomes concrete the Eu will come after Irelands tax system...we’ll find out fairly lively then who our real friends are.

alps

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Buford T. Justice XIX

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Takes two to tango Chief.

Leo, being the good European that he is, hasn’t exactly helped the situation either. The position that the Irish Gov have taken is impossible to politik their way out of.
I can’t figure out why the Irish Gov, completely at the instigation of the Eu, could try and lever the UK into such an unsustainable position...and the UK being their largest single trading partner!

I think it's rather difficult to lay much blame on the Irish Government on their position on Brexit. The UK chose, and it was a conscious choice, to ignore the Good Friday Agreement despite being informed very early on that the route of their goal of freedom from the EU rules would not be in any way compatible with the GFA and the numerous rights and responsibilities that were agreed to by them in return for peace on these islands.

Tbh, I have no problem with them burning down their own house but they can bugger off if they think that right includes burning down the partition wall between their house and ours.

The UK have for many years protected and supported the ‘special’ tax status of Ireland within the European Parliament. When the Brexit situation eventually becomes concrete the Eu will come after Irelands tax system...we’ll find out fairly lively then who our real friends are.

That tax battle should be interesting, especially as other countries offer lower CGT rates than our straight 12.5% depending on the industry and area the companies do business in. It won't be all sweetness and light for those shouting loudest from the EU sidelines about this.

6600

Timmaay wrote: »

Alps if I remember correctly that was Glanbias original idea, a 2sec levy on all milk over your quota supply (which meant a 100% levy for new entrants) to pay for stainless, that idea got dropped when Stathroy came into the market and stole a good few Wexford suppliers.

Farmers are not the property of any company. Nobody stole anything, it still is a free country and they guarantee to pay more than Glanbia.

alps

6600 wrote: »

Farmers are not the property of any company.

Well if they are not the property of any company, the price for many of trying to wrench that property free, I'm afraid, looks like being pretty high...

Buford T. Justice XIX

6600 wrote: »

Farmers are not the property of any company. Nobody stole anything, it still is a free country and they guarantee to pay more than Glanbia.

That's a pretty low bar you're setting there:D

Gawddawggonnit

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I think it's rather difficult to lay much blame on the Irish Government on their position on Brexit. The UK chose, and it was a conscious choice, to ignore the Good Friday Agreement despite being informed very early on that the route of their goal of freedom from the EU rules would not be in any way compatible with the GFA and the numerous rights and responsibilities that were agreed to by them in return for peace on these islands.

Tbh, I have no problem with them burning down their own house but they can bugger off if they think that right includes burning down the partition wall between their house and ours.


That tax battle should be interesting, especially as other countries offer lower CGT rates than our straight 12.5% depending on the industry and area the companies do business in. It won't be all sweetness and light for those shouting loudest from the EU sidelines about this.

When your nearest trading partner commits harikari, sharpening the sword isn’t exactly helping the situation...

A couple of weeks after the Brexit vote Mme.Vestager came out with the Apple tax scandal...that hasn’t gone away you know. Once Brexit is settled (if ever) the tax situation is going to come under severe scrutiny again. The Brits were very forceful in Ireland keeping its special status but with the Brits gone who’s going to fight our case against the Franco-German axis...Hungary?

kevthegaff

The Germans weren't long selling us off with Brazilian beef only a few weeks ago.. Im a closet irexiteer ðŸ˜႒. I do believe varadkar and co have shown arrogance with belief that the EU are fully behind them. Interestin and unsettling times buy lets say Britain get through this only lightly unscathed will other countries be tempted

Mooooo

Dairygold down to 29 cent base......

Water John

You wouldn't have got odds from the bookies on that last week. Best in class award for DG.

Water John

West Cork
Aurivo DOWN 0.5 cent 30
Dairygold Down 1.0 cent 29
Glanbia DOWN 1.0 cent 29.5 INCL 0.5cent from coop fund
Kerry DOWN 1.0 cent 29.5
Arrabawn DOWN 1.0 cent 29.71
Lakeland DOWN 0.5 cent 30.78
Strathroy

alps

Mooooo wrote: »

Dairygold down to 29 cent base......

What happens the revolting fund now? Was that to cease when milk price under 30c?

Water John

Well in their press release they seem to be claiming both the VAT and bonuses as part of the price;

'In a statement, a representative for the cooperative confirmed that Dairygold’s base price for July milk supplies is 29.69c/L, including VAT and bonuses.'

No mention of net price, also like most others a big mention of the avg price paid per litre. Beside the fact that the solids have nothing to do with them.

Mooooo

alps wrote: »

What happens the revolting fund now? Was that to cease when milk price under 30c?

Stops being taken when under 30c base. Dunno if I am right but I understood it'll stop once one supplier hits 60 payments, not sure how many have been made yet, some winter suppliers or larger spring suppliers may have made payments in the month of January when the price has been above 30c, having gone passed the amount each year that's exempt from it. Could be wrong maybe everyone has to make 60 payments..

Mooooo

Water John wrote: »

Well in their press release they seem to be claiming both the VAT and bonuses as part of the price;

'In a statement, a representative for the cooperative confirmed that Dairygold’s base price for July milk supplies is 29.69c/L, including VAT and bonuses.'

No mention of net price, also like most others a big mention of the avg price paid per litre. Beside the fact that the solids have nothing to do with them.

The top of the statement that comes in the post will say 29c incl vat. The .65 is added post solids adjustment so is not part of base, and assuming lads are milk recording, herd health testing, which is a bit of a joke in terms of what is sent out, and make all the quality things. Habe always said adding those to their announcements is bollixing

alps

Mooooo wrote: »

Stops being taken when under 30c base. Dunno if I am right but I understood it'll stop once one supplier hits 60 payments, not sure how many have been made yet, some winter suppliers or larger spring suppliers may have made payments in the month of January when the price has been above 30c, having gone passed the amount each year that's exempt from it. Could be wrong maybe everyone has to make 60 payments..

If share up and RF cease under 30c, you are effectively not having a cut in milk price iykwim..

It's a big call for them to take milk price to where they are not collecting these payments, and concerning..

Again back to a previous question I posed, if Ornua index is returning more, are coops having to sell an increasing amount of their output themselves?

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

Dairygold down to 29 cent base......

Inc vat?

Mooooo

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Inc vat?

Yes

Mooooo

alps wrote: »

If share up and RF cease under 30c, you are effectively not having a cut in milk price iykwim..

It's a big call for them to take milk price to where they are not collecting these payments, and concerning..

Again back to a previous question I posed, if Ornua index is returning more, are coops having to sell an increasing amount of their output themselves?

A good question, still a cut because those deductions are taken post solids adjustment so solids will be worked off a lower base

Gawddawggonnit

Mooooo wrote: »

Yes

Jesus wept.

By my reckoning that’s 27.5cpl + vat?

The lowest it went with me here in the last crash was 28cpl + vat. I can tell you that the return at that price was nonexistent when you’ve wages (etc) to pay.

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

If share up and RF cease under 30c, you are effectively not having a cut in milk price iykwim..

It's a big call for them to take milk price to where they are not collecting these payments, and concerning..

Again back to a previous question I posed, if Ornua index is returning more, are coops having to sell an increasing amount of their output themselves?

I'm a bit lost here, alps?

Why would they sell an increasing amount themselves for a lower price if Ornua were paying more?

And, iirc, the Ornua price is an averaged one across all products traded so some Co-ops will have a slightly better product mix and others will have a slightly worse product mix? Which complicates price comparisons a bit more

alps

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'm a bit lost here, alps?

Why would they sell an increasing amount themselves for a lower price if Ornua were paying more?
:

Because Ornua are not shifting the volume...I reckon coops are being left with product, and being left to their own devices to shift it.

Ornua only take from the coops what they can sell...