Milk Price III

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587346#Comment_120587346

45cpl + vat.

However this time last year I was getting 44cpl when ye were getting 60-70cpl.

Cost me hundreds of thousands. Bit of clawing back on that.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587315#Comment_120587315

The thing is its not the artificial nitrogen that will limit you, there are ways around that, it is the organic nitrogen. Not a problem in France. Last time I was out there you could get long term leases for anything from 100 to 180 Euros a Hectare.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587475#Comment_120587475

Yes.

No speculation allowed on agricultural land, and only farmers that are going to farm that land allowed to buy or rent it. Sounds great…but could ye stomach ye’re own land falling in value to €4-500 an acre? (Didn’t think so!😀).

Would the IFA be gung-ho lobbying Government to completely stop the tax breaks that allow the passing of wealth to family, and eliminating speculative investors from the market? (Don’t think so!).

BTW, there’s no ‘way around’ the artificial N import. None.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587604#Comment_120587604

Fair point about the "agricultural relief" driving up the price of land, but the thing is that in France it wouldnt have cost 10 to 20 thousand an acre to buy it initially.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587927#Comment_120587927

No it wouldn’t because no speculation allowed from the get go.

I ‘sold’ 5.4ha of development land a few years back. It’s zoned as medium density housing. I got a registered letter in the post saying that as of such a date, the land would compulsory purchased for €3k/ha or they’d give me 11ha of land from their land bank. I took the land. I’ve another 26ha zoned for development also…in Ireland that’d be worth a fair few bob, but not here, unfortunately.

If the rent of a hectare here is €150/ha and the value to buy is €1500/ha…then renting conacre at €2500/ha would be the same in Ireland iykwim…so, land at €500/ac is nothing short of a steal?

(Ye don’t know how lucky ye are!) 😀

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120588147#Comment_120588147

While I'm a full time farmer, landowner, and have bought a few fields in the last 15 years, I'd be much more in favour of such controlled and managed land use system in Ireland. In the long term I think it would be in all genuine farmer's and communities' interests.

I could well be mistaken though!

older by the day

I was at the mart today and I would not worry about fellows who want to expand. The age of farmers is frightening. There will be a lot of roughish land with no one to farm it in a few years. If you didn't have a stick or had any patch of dark hair you were an oddity.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120589517#Comment_120589517

I want land prices to be sky high as I’ve a few acres in hand in Ireland.

I agree that it would probably be the best thing for rural Ireland. It opens up the possibility of city kids to farm. I know 2 young people that are farming quite successfully after coming from Paris and Nantes. They hadn’t a clue until they started working on farms and then bought their own.

The narrative that environmental regulations will depopulate rural Ireland is quite disingenuous. If land was affordable there’d be plenty young blood to take up farming. Land at €10-20k/ac makes it a non starter for those outside the farming community.

Castlekeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590025#Comment_120590025

I can't see any "rural" politicians putting it on their manifesto though!

There'd be some reaction if Eamon Ryan suggested it 🤣

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590025#Comment_120590025

There is more land and less farmers in France though proportionally. Any farmers I know are interested in buying more land and not selling it so I don't see the greatness of inflated prices. It means nothing to me how much my land is valued at because it won't be sold.

There is a couple of french people working around here now. They said they get paid and treated much better in Ireland. The French treat farm labourers like dirt they said.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586874#Comment_120586874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586940#Comment_120586940

Dairy farmers have to stand back and analyse there business model. Land rentals of 500++/acre is unsustainable in that scenario. Even allowing for farm payment diluting the cost by 125/acre( and that is assuming farmer gets to draw the payment) it's still expecting a cow to carry a 400euro+ cost on her back. As well many dairy farmers will struggle to draw Eco.

On last year's prices it's workable with a cow turning over 3.5+k. However if milk goes back to 35c/ L the same cow now turns over below 2k. Taking a cost of 500/ cow out if that dilutes your margin significantly.

Add in calf nitrates into the equation. IMO the most profitable dairy farmer could be the 80-120 cow lads managing without much hired in labour and limited debt. That use contractors for silage and maybe slurry and are able to keep there operations very modern( or modernize them) by availing of 70-100k TAM's allowance every 5 years.

If you have more land than that stick on a beef operation, ya the margin are lower but so are your costs

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590345#Comment_120590345

But sure any accountant will tell you that 60-100 cow farmer on owned land has always been the most profitable and least stressed clients they have. Fair enough the real big operations make life changing money in years like last year but there are a lot of headaches every year too

Jack98

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120589763#Comment_120589763

Agree with this and it will be very rough most fellas will take land to the grave with them have seen several farmers in their 70s locally let places go rough of recent years, won’t let out the place but might rent out some ground for a cut of silage no maps only deal in cash and that would be hungry ground.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590792#Comment_120590792

Any person collecting money always say that they can't get paid off the big farmers. They can't all be wrong.

60 - 100 cows is grand but it won't get you onto the front page as a poster boy for teagasc or Ifj and the likes. I had to laugh at Aidan Brennan crying about that cork lad with a load of kids and "only" 75 cows. He's doing everything right and will have to go back 20 cows or something. I agree with him for once but he usually wouldn't care less a out such a farmer until he became useful for Aidan to push his own agenda.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590792#Comment_120590792

Most bigger dairy lads have have large land banks. However many decided to keep expanding the dairy operation without considering the cost involved and the labour required.

There are other lads that have converted from large sucker or tillage operations that have decided to convert completely to dairying without considering the conversion costs and again the labour requirements. Some are operations that have expanded having a double labour (father and son) availability without thinking of that labour requirement being there 10+ years down the line. Often the case is the son is in his early twenties and neither have considered the lifestyle impositions it will make long-term.

Before many know it they have operations with hundreds of thousands in debt serving requirements and extra labour required as well.

You only have to look at this forum where there are several that consider that 100++cows is required to have a viable operation

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120590841#Comment_120590841

Going to the mart 10 years ago the age demographics were the same. Young people will bid online and don't have all day to talk shite

whelan2

Good luck to anyone looking for a loan to help them out from the banks...4 months on just got approval the other day. You wouldn't want to be under pressure for money...

Fine Day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120591848#Comment_120591848

Must of been a fairly substancely amount of money to take that long.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120592127#Comment_120592127

Setting up collateral I'd imagine. Solicitors really hold things up so that they can charge more and somehow justify it. Took me from before Xmas to the other day to get a loan approved and land deal closed.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120592127#Comment_120592127

Is that a sutble way of asking how much ya get? What interest rate? What repayments? Fixed/variable? What ya use as security?

(I'm interested in all those answers too from a purely nosey perspective)

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120592127#Comment_120592127

Nope. Wouldn't want to be looking for a million. Ulsterbank customer moved to another bank.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120591848#Comment_120591848

Anything under 120k with bank of ireland and not requiring collateral usually only takes 48 hours for approval once your account is clean, got a 50k ukraine guarantee sbci loan from them and it was approved and in my account in 4 days from application, if it had of been ulster bank it would of taken months, and reams of paperwork

whelan2

I found ulsterbank great in fairness. I suppose it depends who you're dealing with there.

Mooooo

Nearly always depends in the person than the bank, not as much as they way it was before but still has a bearing. Lack of competition is a bollix tho.

Would love to just go all out and borrow what's needed to sort the place fully be done with it and get it paid off well in advance of retiring but way things are it'll just be a bits n' pieces job

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120592489#Comment_120592489

Same here

Fine Day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120592153#Comment_120592153

I am busted. You are on to me😲

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120591687#Comment_120591687

You’re a fair expert on a sector you’ve no experience in Bass

my oul man is heading for 73, we’ve gone from 60 cows to 170 in 10 years, I’d keep going if I could get the land.

I’ve near enough built a fully finished house in the last 20 months with no mortgage and we’re well borrowed along with it

dairying is a good gig if you’re willing to put in the hard graft.

this narrative that 60-100 cows on owned land is the most profitable operation is bs, fair few doing as good or better on leased farms/share farming arrangements

most of those guys on owned land don’t have to push them selves, there herd or there farm

we’re paying for every acre we’re farming and have been for a good while now.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593982#Comment_120593982

Sure why can't you get the land if it's that profitable?

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120594321#Comment_120594321

Massive tillage country around here. 2 of the biggest tillage companies in country operating in the locality. Bounded on 2 sides by one of them

they have there hand in for land before anyone

Wildsurfer

Many bemoaning the loss of the 60 cow 'family' farm, but around here the farms around the 220 cow mark are the new family farms where the wife is helping on farm as well. The 60 to 100 cow farmers are on their own as their wives all have full time jobs to bring in extra income.