Milk Price III

Gawddawggonnit

Some very interesting posts but ye're getting carried away...

Macron is not trying to nationalisé farms but he's trying to build in a margin (for the producer) into the supply chain. This wouldn't be of much use in Ireland as most produce is exported. Everyone gets a nice margin BAR the producer, so anything that guarantees a margin must/should be good. It will probably mean a rise in prices to the consumer though.

The well established capitalists are screaming blue murder, and not without reason...to a point. Naked, raw capitalism doesn't work, neither does communism. Capitalism worked fairly well after the Second World War up until the 70's, when the unions started to 'play' the system (a system that was focused on employment) and everyone knows about the state of affairs then with power outages etc and overly powerful unions.

Until the 70's business was only scraping by until the doors were opened to globalisé and financialise them. Suddenly corporates were mobile and labour became a second thought where firms could move to cheaper labour markets. Fair enough. Now we are where we are, with the best brains in the planet using their intellect to undo financial regulation and dreaming up the next toxic (or not) package. Personally I'd rather the best brains in the world solving problems like climate change etc, not creating even more wealth for the financial sector.

France has land control for decades Kowtow. I'm not a fan of it as I'm constantly fighting it. However it's extremely easy for an 18yr old without a washer in his pocket and from a non farming background to own and farm as he/she wishes. Try doing that in the great icons of capitalism of the west...impossible.

How does all that help a dairy farmer with no other enterprise to protect himself from volatility? Dairy farmers, for their own reasons, are particularly exposed because they are very short on options. E.g. Tillage can grow carrots if prices/futures look good...
Locking up the chèque book etc are just glib utterances from people that were protected from prolonged price pressures for decades, and don't really know any better. Building a resilient business (á la Teagasc) is not very helpful for expanding farms that have substantial financial commitments, but it would be fine for established farms that ruled the world during the quota years....

Out of interest, would farmers here rather to be farming in a post Brexit Britain, or stuck within a borderline communist Eu with all its regulations?? Answers on a postcard...

kowtow

What about a synthetic profit swap with a tillage guy?

Actually I've long thought that dynamic partnerships between farms... a sort of ad hoc mixed farm, if you like, might be an interesting way forward for family size farms.

Farmer Ed

Heard what I thought was a very good thought recently. "Socialism without capitalism is communism. But capitalism without socialism is fascism".

I think very few people want to go back to quotas. But that said. The idea of a minimum wage for farmers is hardly communism either. Don't forget unbridled capitalism has given us Trump. The best democracy money can buy.

kowtow

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Heard what I thought was a very good thought recently. "Socialism without capitalism is communism. But capitalism without socialism is fascism".

Enforced political correctness and group-think, and new institutions which demand loyalty and love from citizens transcending their traditional family and societal bonds, would all be good markers of a fascist society

The typical neo-liberal left leaning pro-state governments we see today in most of our western democracies are really an abomination. If they have a conscience at all, it is the conscience of the corporations which brief them, fund them, and teach them. If they have a philosophy it is that as long as voters can be persuaded to believe them, and they can remain in power, they are doing right. Nothing else matters.

Don't forget unbridled capitalism has given us Trump. The best democracy money can buy.

Not at all. Hillary Clinton and her like gave us Trump.

Farmer Ed

kowtow wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Heard what I thought was a very good thought recently. "Socialism without capitalism is communism. But capitalism without socialism is fascism".

Enforced political correctness and group-think, and new institutions which demand loyalty and love from citizens transcending their traditional family and societal bonds, would all be good markers of a fascist society

The typical neo-liberal left leaning pro-state governments we see today in most of our western democracies are really an abomination. If they have a conscience at all, it is the conscience of the corporations which brief them, fund them, and teach them. If they have a philosophy it is that as long as voters can be persuaded to believe them, and they can remain in power, they are doing right. Nothing else matters.

Don't forget unbridled capitalism has given us Trump. The best democracy money can buy.

Not at all. Hillary Clinton and her like gave us Trump.

Was Hillary not the product of unbridled capitalism?

But I agree with your other points. Anyone in doubt should research the origins of the word propaganda.

atlantic mist

http://www.globaldairytrade.info/en/gdt-marketplace/gdt-marketplace-sellers/glanbia/

and were off we have joined the gdt platform they kept that quite

Farmer Ed

atlantic mist wrote: »

http://www.globaldairytrade.info/en/gdt-marketplace/gdt-marketplace-sellers/glanbia/

and were off we have joined the gdt platform they kept that quite

I suspect a tool that will be used to talk down the milk price here when is suits.

Gawddawggonnit

kowtow wrote: »

What about a synthetic profit swap with a tillage guy?

Actually I've long thought that dynamic partnerships between farms... a sort of ad hoc mixed farm, if you like, might be an interesting way forward for family size farms.

Already in place here in the form of 'GAEC'...but could work better with more "consenting" parties. Worth exploring.

Gawddawggonnit

kowtow wrote: »

The typical neo-liberal left leaning pro-state governments we see today in most of our western democracies are really an abomination. If they have a conscience at all, it is the conscience of the corporations which brief them, fund them, and teach them. If they have a philosophy it is that as long as voters can be persuaded to believe them, and they can remain in power, they are doing right. Nothing else matters.



Not at all. Hillary Clinton and her like gave us Trump.

+1. Western governments are a function of the corporations that put them there.

The CAP and food regime of Europe was formed to ensure cheap food for the workers in lieu of a pay rise. Ever since the western focus on employment was abolished in favor of corporatism/globalisation/financialism, there has been no real rise in wages (in real terms), so cheap food freed up a good chunk of their income for other purposes. Make no mistake but that cheap food/CAP is nothing more than an indirect grant to corporations.

Hillary didn't give us Trump (although she made the decision much easier), it was the ordinary Joe Soap worker that has suffered a constant undermining of wages since the 70's that gave us Trump. Joe voted Trump to give Wall St and big industry le doight d'honneur.

As you suggest the CAP will be almost impossible to unwind. Will there be wage increases to pay for more expensive food? No.
CAP has been a subsidy for big business, especially big Ag, and farmers have become dependent on it in an increasingly more expensive and regulated business environment. Your suggestion of the farmer becoming much closer to the consumer is really the only exit, imo, that's on offer.

kowtow

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Already in place here in the form of 'GAEC'...but could work better with more "consenting" parties. Worth exploring.

If a Silicon Valley upstart was addressing agriculture I'm fairly sure he'd express it as a platform where groups of consenting farmers could work together to agree to exchange inputs and outputs for a given period of time, to contract for sales of outputs, and - perhaps - to share profits at some level in order to provide natural diversification. The co-op or processor as we know it would become 1./ a contracted processor to handle straights between farms (for example) 2./ a buyer (as it is today) but on contract rather than all-in terms and 3./ a financial intermediary (which it also is today).

That way, the semi-retired farmer with no successor might find himself growing silage of a measured quality and/or rearing heifers and finishing beef... the young dairy farmer would do what the dairy farmer does.. the tillage man would be growing the right crop in the right quantity to fill the barns of the livestock guys etc. etc. - in other words groups of 3,4,5 or more family farms would come together as a fully mixed farm with an identifiable range of outputs and very limited inputs. The extensive sheep guy would have a wide grazing platform to work across - and together they would have the identity, and perhaps the scale, to market and add some specified value to their product range (rather than paying the upstream processors to do this), they would have much less financial friction inside the virtual "farm gate" - effectively using their own straights and straw without margins for compounders - and beef animals could be fed and finished without paying a risk premium at each stage of the game in the mart in case to a series of dis-interested buyers each of whom may be knocked back by the dominant factory.

Farmer Ed

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/kerryman-appointed-new-ceo-of-carbery-group/?utm_content=buffer0efd3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

New boss for Carbery and he even has proper business qualifications and not just a degree in butter making from ucc . Best of luck to the man. Big shoes to fill but on paper he seams qualified. Probably on a smaller salary than some of the others if my memory serves me right.

K.G.

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/kerryman-appointed-new-ceo-of-carbery-group/?utm_content=buffer0efd3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

New boss for Carbery and he even has proper business qualifications and not just a degree in butter making from ucc . Best of luck to the man. Big shoes to fill but on paper he seams qualified. Probably on a smaller salary than some of the others if my memory serves me right.

This fella was in line to take over from stan in kerry at one point soi could safely say if you have to ask the price you cant afford it

Farmer Ed

K.G. wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/kerryman-appointed-new-ceo-of-carbery-group/?utm_content=buffer0efd3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

New boss for Carbery and he even has proper business qualifications and not just a degree in butter making from ucc . Best of luck to the man. Big shoes to fill but on paper he seams qualified. Probably on a smaller salary than some of the others if my memory serves me right.

This fella was in line to take over from stan in kerry at one point soi could safely say if you have to ask the price you cant afford it

I doubt if he will be paid a whole lot more than the last man. It would appear he has a desire to return home. Would be surprised if he is on the 7 figure sums you hear branded about for other less qualified CEOs. No one is worth that and west cork wouldn't be where it is today if they were that foolish.

K.G.

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I doubt if he will be paid a whole lot more than the last man. It would appear he has a desire to return home. Would be surprised if he is on the 7 figure sums you hear branded about for other less qualified CEOs. No one is worth that and west cork wouldn't be where it is today if they were that foolish.

You know best

Farmer Ed

K.G. wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote: »

I doubt if he will be paid a whole lot more than the last man. It would appear he has a desire to return home. Would be surprised if he is on the 7 figure sums you hear branded about for other less qualified CEOs. No one is worth that and west cork wouldn't be where it is today if they were that foolish.

You know best

Are you suggesting he is being paid more than a million? I'd be very surprised if that was the case.

Gawddawggonnit

kowtow wrote: »

If a Silicon Valley upstart was addressing agriculture I'm fairly sure he'd express it as a platform where groups of consenting farmers could work together to agree to exchange inputs and outputs for a given period of time, to contract for sales of outputs, and - perhaps - to share profits at some level in order to provide natural diversification. The co-op or processor as we know it would become 1./ a contracted processor to handle straights between farms (for example) 2./ a buyer (as it is today) but on contract rather than all-in terms and 3./ a financial intermediary (which it also is today).

That way, the semi-retired farmer with no successor might find himself growing silage of a measured quality and/or rearing heifers and finishing beef... the young dairy farmer would do what the dairy farmer does.. the tillage man would be growing the right crop in the right quantity to fill the barns of the livestock guys etc. etc. - in other words groups of 3,4,5 or more family farms would come together as a fully mixed farm with an identifiable range of outputs and very limited inputs. The extensive sheep guy would have a wide grazing platform to work across - and together they would have the identity, and perhaps the scale, to market and add some specified value to their product range (rather than paying the upstream processors to do this), they would have much less financial friction inside the virtual "farm gate" - effectively using their own straights and straw without margins for compounders - and beef animals could be fed and finished without paying a risk premium at each stage of the game in the mart in case to a series of dis-interested buyers each of whom may be knocked back by the dominant factory.

Read this post yesterday and it struck me that it's exactly my mo here. It gives great scope to deal with fluctuating prices as everything isn't going to come up trumps at the same time.
I would have had many squeaky bum moments if I depended on just one product for income. Tillage, dairy, beef and poultry work perfectly together and one helps the other. I find it's very hard to separate out the cop of any one enterprise because of that.

Yes it's quite doable for family size farms to group together and pool resources. To make it work there would have to be a pool/share of machinery and labor. There's huge savings and efficiency to be gained by pooling resources.

It would take a fair bit of organizing to make the project work smoothly...not to mention the management of it!!

Definitely worth closer investigation by broad minded farmers.

Farmer Ed

https://www.eater.com/2017/10/26/16552520/france-butter-shortage-supermarkets-pastry-foreign-demand

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/871186/France-butter-crisis-shortage-croissants-Emmanuel-Macron-dairy-labour-reforms


"Greatest butter shortage since world war II"!

whelan2

wats the craic wrote: »

never got a price this month putting it down to the phone system crashing in wexford after the storm , have been paid waiting on the statment to come which hopefully will be tommorrow. i den will post my price and solids .

Any update?

mf240

I was just wondering if Arabawn had a stand in the ploughing or was it too expensive. They seem to prefer to pay farmers for milk instead of spending money trying to convince them that they did

Farmer Ed

mf240 wrote: »

I was just wondering if Arabawn had a stand in the ploughing or was it too expensive. They seem to prefer to pay farmers for milk instead of spending money trying to convince them that they did

Story doing the rounds something about udder health education in Ballyraggart? Anyone hear anything?

wats the craic

whelan2 wrote: »

Any update?

sorry was up to my eyes trying get sheds sorted after the storm and i totally forgot to post my results . base price 36.09 bf 4.80 prt 3.83 . total price 44.807 . scc is 147

Buford T. Justice XIX

I see Murray Goulburn has been bought by a Canadian PLC Saputo.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/canadas-saputo-agrees-to-take-over-australias-murray-goulburn-319368#.WfMLreEbmCE.twitter

whelan2

Bill o keeffes view on glanbia

alps

Fixed prices announced by Aurivo at 33..41 starting in January....

How many still think 34 is bananas for April...?

There will be plenty applications at these prices....

whelan2

alps wrote: »

Fixed prices announced by Aurivo at 33..41 starting in January....

How many still think 34 is bananas for April...?

There will be plenty applications at these prices....

How long is it for'?

GrasstoMilk

alps wrote: »

Fixed prices announced by Aurivo at 33..41 starting in January....

How many still think 34 is bananas for April...?

There will be plenty applications at these prices....

Aurivo must have a fair crystal ball if they can offer a fixed price of 33.4 c

For how long?
I'd be hopping straight onto that if it was me

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Aurivo must have a fair crystal ball if they can offer a fixed price of 33.4 c

For how long?
I'd be hopping straight onto that if it was me

18 months and 10% of your supply ,I’d lump 90% of milk in at ,small coops really showing up glanbia now ....,sorry couldn’t resist

K.G.

alps wrote: »

Fixed prices announced by Aurivo at 33..41 starting in January....

How many still think 34 is bananas for April...?

There will be plenty applications at these prices....

Thats a brilliant price and i would quite happily be wrong and snap it up.

whelan2

mahoney_j wrote: »

18 months and 10% of your supply ,I’d lump 90% of milk in at ,small coops really showing up glanbia now ....,sorry couldn’t resist

Aye and lads couldn't sign up quick enough to another 5years of it

alps

K.G. wrote: »

Dream on

mahoney_j wrote: »

18 months and 10% of your supply ,I’d lump 90% of milk in at ,small coops really showing up glanbia now ....,sorry couldn’t resist

Better still Mahoney.....looks like 36 months....