Animal Abusers

Pac1Man

Pac1Man wrote: »

I have no issue with the killing of animals for commercial use. Fish die from asphyxiation (they're mostly caught in nets by the way). Cows die from getting a piston fired through their skull.

I have no issue with either of those methods. I have got an issue with animal cruelty.

You are avoiding the point I made.

I was referring to catching fish on a line. For sport, for the fisherman's entertainment. The reference to catching on a hook and dragging through a river was hardly meant to refer to John West's food production.

Do you equate that with doing the same to a dog? Or a human? It is torture for fun, no? It was you who said like for like, does it apply across the board and in this objective world, would it not get the same punishment as similar assault on a human?

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

I was referring to catching fish on a line. For sport, for the fisherman's entertainment. The reference to catching on a hook and dragging through a river was hardly meant to refer to John West's food production.

Do you equate that with doing the same to a dog? Or a human? It is torture for fun, no? It was you who said like for like, does it apply across the board and in this objective world, would it not get the same punishment as similar assault on a human?

Your whole argument rests on your interpretation that he has no problem with recreational fishing, thus making him a hypocrite, but when he mentioned fishing it was in the same sentence as the issue of raising livestock and food production.

It's pretty obvious he meant fishing as a way of getting food.

osarusan

osarusan wrote: »

Your whole argument rests on your interpretation that he has no problem with recreational fishing, thus making him a hypocrite, but when he mentioned fishing it was in the same sentence as the issue of raising livestock and food production.

It's pretty obvious he meant fishing as a way of getting food.

I'm not making an argument.

I'm examining his argument that there is some objective position, that the life of an animal is the same as a human. And I'm taking the example of recreational fishing.

Is it torture or not?

Pac1Man

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You are avoiding the point I made.

I was referring to catching fish on a line. For sport, for the fisherman's entertainment. The reference to catching on a hook and dragging through a river was hardly meant to refer to John West's food production.

Do you equate that with doing the same to a dog? Or a human? It is torture for fun, no? It was you who said like for like, does it apply across the board and in this objective world, would it not get the same punishment as similar assault on a human?

No I do not equate a fish to a human or most other animals because fish do not feel the pain that other animals do.

So for your hook analogy, yes for fish and no for dog.

osarusan

Pac1Man wrote: »

No I do not equate a fish to a human or most other animals because fish do not feel the pain that other animals do.

So for your hook analogy, yes for fish and no for dog.

:eek:

Perhaps I stand corrected!

Pac1Man

Pac1Man wrote: »

No I do not equate a fish to a human or most other animals because fish do not feel the pain that other animals do.

So for your hook analogy, yes for fish and no for dog.

Ah, so when you said take like for like, you meant don't take like for like at all, you completely distinguish based on some apparent pain scale.

I actually didn't know fish couldn't feel pain like other animals. They look fairly upset on any video I've seen of some large one hauled onto a boat. Could you point to any studies that compare the pain thresholds in, say, trout and cats?

Ms Doubtfire1

dodderangler wrote: »

Are people just insane. Putting animal cruelty in the same category as human murder, rape etc is dumb as fcuk.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say most here are vegans??

actually, it's NOT as dumb as fukc. It's the only sane way to go because those who mistreat animals will go on to mistreat humans.There have been hundreds of studies to show and prove that. What sadens me an awful lot as well is that even on this threat there are people ignorant of the suffering of ireland dogs,cats and horses.This nation is supposed to be a nation of animal lovers.Well,I for one heavily contest that.

https://www.facebook.com/Irelands-Love-of-Animals-Not-1036281623147952/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel


as for punishment..well..biblical.
an eye for an eye.

Pac1Man

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ah, so when you said take like for like, you meant don't take like for like at all, you completely distinguish based on some apparent pain scale.

I actually didn't know fish couldn't feel pain like other animals. They look fairly upset on any video I've seen of some large one hauled onto a boat. Could you point to any studies that compare the pain thresholds in, say, trout and cats?

Here you go:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/9797948/Fish-cannot-feel-pain-say-scientists.html

Now excuse me while I drop this mic.

Irish Stones

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

your Punishment(s) for Animal Abusers?

* Hanging/Death sentence (* hypothetically speaking, because mores the pity they have done away with the death sentence)

Death penalty without trial!
Once I was asked to join a group of volunteers in my area to watch over animal abuses, mistreatments or neglect. I asked them what my role would have been and if I was allowed to use force or violence to the abusers. They told me that I would have talked to the abuser and explained them what wrong they were doing.
Too a soft approach in my opinion, so I chose not to join.
This group of volunteers vanished two or three years later.

Ms Doubtfire1

Irish Stones wrote: »

Death penalty without trial!
Once I was asked to join a group of volunteers in my area to watch over animal abuses, mistreatments or neglect. I asked them what my role would have been and if I was allowed to use force or violence to the abusers. They told me that I would have talked to the abuser and explained them what wrong they were doing.
Too a soft approach in my opinion, so I chose not to join.
This group of volunteers vanished two or three years later.

explain to them what they were doing wrong...>snorts<
With a bloody whip with 10 tails and hooks yes please.

bodhrandude

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

I grew up fairly apathetic to both cats and dogs. My dear mother had a terrible fear of canines, and my father would 'shoo' random cats away from our house for reasons I haven't yet asked him about. That said, I'm now in Germany and sharing an apartment with two cats: Hopkins and Pluck.

Why any human would want to willingly hurt either of these creatures is a mystery to me.

Sounds like a solicitors firm to me.

ScumLord

Jolie Mealy Tomahawk wrote: »

It is kind of funny the knots and tears people work themselves up into over the thoughts of someone kicking a dog when the majority of these people eat dead animals for the sake of convenience and pleasure on a daily basis. "My dogs are the same as people and anyone who hurts a dog should be shot. Chickens and cows and pigs is fine though coz I really like eating them"

The two aren't at all comparable. Cattle and sheep can live an idyllic life in this country. They're not treated cruely at any stage. The worst thing that happens to them is they go into a funny smelling room and die as quickly as nature will allow.

Intensively farmed animals like Chickens and pigs have a horrible life though. I avoid that type of meat. Always organic and free range. But that cruelty is brought about by consumers. People who buy cheap meat have little right to be complaining about animal cruelty, it's one thing they can change with their purchasing decisions.

CaptainInsano

Avery Sour Cranberry wrote: »

Animal cruelty is very bad and very few people will say otherwise, but what also concerns me is having somebody with your logic imposing rules and regulations on the rest of society. That scares the shít out of me.

What rules have I imposed? Don't worry I'm not a politician, sorry to have scared you.

Allison91

ScumLord wrote: »

The two aren't at all comparable. Cattle and sheep can live an idyllic life in this country. They're not treated cruely at any stage. The worst thing that happens to them is they go into a funny smelling room and die as quickly as nature will allow.

Intensively farmed animals like Chickens and pigs have a horrible life though. I avoid that type of meat. Always organic and free range. But that cruelty is brought about by consumers. People who buy cheap meat have little right to be complaining about animal cruelty, it's one thing they can change with their purchasing decisions.

That's simply not true people just like to console themselves with that notion watch this for the truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBy5BqCv4us
Farming here is as barbaric as anywhere else or even worse in some cases...

CaptainInsano

ScumLord wrote: »

The two aren't at all comparable. Cattle and sheep can live an idyllic life in this country. They're not treated cruely at any stage.

Tell that to the cattle that have just had their nutsacks crushed without anaesthetic.

OldNotWIse

Comparing them to paedophiles is ridiculous however there can be little doubt that the law as it stands acts as no deterrent to abuse. If anyone hurt my dog or cats I'd take the law into my own hands because I know the law as it stands would not punish them enough.

OldNotWIse

Edups wrote: »

Ah here now a dog isn't hanging around to be beaten or abused

What saddens me so much about people abusing dogs is that they don't leave. A cat might, but a dog would stay until the bitter end, and even begin to trust and forgive again if shown the right treatment. The saddest thing I ever saw was someone straying their dog. I didn't cop it for an age - the dog was running after a van in a panic and I thought it was just chasing cars etc. but apparently the guy was the owner and was getting rid of it. How sad that the dog who was being dumped was still so loyal to the fúcktard doing that to him

And on the vermin thing, my OH "rescued" a mouse that one of our cats was playing with a time ago and then the little fúcker got into the house. My six other fat bástard cats just sat looking at it, and then blinked at me as if to say, "your problem mate" :P

Lone Stone

I think it would be better to make the person go to some sort of counseling therapy to get to the route of why they harm animals, if they are young anyway no excuse for an adult to be torturing animals. But kids especially cant always express them selfs and might take some frustration out on a pet which not a trait you want to go on into adulthood.

OldNotWIse

Lone Stone wrote: »

I think it would be better to make the person go to some sort of counseling therapy to get to the route of why they harm animals, if they are young anyway no excuse for an adult to be torturing animals. But kids especially cant always express them selfs and might take some frustration out on a pet which not a trait you want to go on into adulthood.

Yeah those teens who tied up and spit roasted a live staffie last year need to learn to express themselves better.

Lone Stone

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yeah those teens who tied up and spit roasted a live staffie last year need to learn to express themselves better.

i said kids

OldNotWIse

Lone Stone wrote: »

i said kids

Kids are under 18.

Lone Stone

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Kids are under 18.

pedantic

OldNotWIse

Lone Stone wrote: »

pedantic

Legal term. Pardon me for assuming that words are given their normal meaning. A child is by definition under 18. Perhaps you could give us your own unique definition that you are working with.

Lone Stone

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Legal term. Pardon me for assuming that words are given their normal meaning. A child is by definition under 18. Perhaps you could give us your own unique definition that you are working with.

you are using a broad terms for under 18 there is a huge difference between an 18-year-old and a 13-year-old, yet you are advocating for punishment of a child with out any consideration for the environment they have been raised in which could be the entire reason for why they have abusive behavior towards animals which in the long wont solve anything it would only lead to worse criminal/destructive behavior, where as finding out what has been going on with the kid/young adult (under 18 say) they could get to the route of the behavioral problem. But sure why deal with issues properly when you can just punish them :rolleyes:

Ms Doubtfire1

Lone Stone wrote: »

pedantic

factually correct.
:mad:

petrolcan

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Imprisonment and being added to list as well as never being allowed anywhere near animals again would be my punishments.

Thankfully you're not in charge.

AudreyHepburn

petrolcan wrote: »

Thankfully you're not in charge.

If you physically abused a human being the punishment would be similar to what I said.

Why should it not be the same for those who abuse animals?

petrolcan

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

actually, it's NOT as dumb as fukc. It's the only sane way to go because those who mistreat animals will go on to mistreat humans.

I've drowned kittens. I've beaten dogs. I've never mistreated a human.

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

There have been hundreds of studies to show and prove that.

There is? Care to share?

When it comes to eating meat I think there is a distance there for people. As already shown in this thread a lot of people don't even fully understand the process by which their steak gets to their plate.
But more than that I think very few people have an emotional bond with the animals we eat in this country. I doubt many of us have a sheep lying on front of our fires at night or a pig curled up on the sofa. We don't hug a cow when we're upset or wave to our neighbour as she jogs by with her pet deer.
I am not saying this excuses it but maybe it goes some way to explain how we can be horrified by one form of animal abuse and somewhat indifferent to another.

I will never understand however, how anyone could do harm to their own or someone else's pet.
How a man can starve the family dog to death is beyond me.
The man who beat his children's jack Russell to death in a public park and wasn't even banned from owning animals for life is incomprehensible.
Could you teach your children to ride on the little pony outside and then disembowel it while it's still alive? Well someone can.
It's happening every day in Ireland.

I saw a programme recently that did a study on dogs and found that they always choose humans over other dogs. They love us. They were domesticated to be with us. And anyone who abuses the privilege should be punished appropriately.
How? I'm not quite sure. Prison, a substantial fine, put on a register, banned from owning animals for life. All sounds good to me.
What I do know for sure is, our current punishments are pathetic and doing absolutely nothing to deter these sickos.

CaptainInsano

petrolcan wrote: »

I've drowned kittens. I've beaten dogs. I've never mistreated a human.

Maybe not. I wouldn't trust you around my kids though.