Animal Abusers

petrolcan

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If you physically abused a human being the punishment would be similar to what I said.

Why should it not be the same for those who abuse animals?

Simply because they are animals and as such, do not command the same rights.

petrolcan

CaptainInsano wrote: »

Maybe not. I wouldn't trust you around my kids though.

Entirely your choice.

Ms Doubtfire1

petrolcan wrote: »

I've drowned kittens. I've beaten dogs. I've never mistreated a human.

well than in all fairness you're one of those that really needs treatment cause there's definitely something wrong with your empathy settings

ScumLord

Allison91 wrote: »

That's simply not true people just like to console themselves with that notion watch this for the truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBy5BqCv4us
Farming here is as barbaric as anywhere else or even worse in some cases...

I had a quick look at the video, but as a vegan propaganda piece it does the usual thing of showing only the worst cases and promoting those as how everyone does it.

I've already said I don't support intensive farming. So we can skip all the pig and chicken stuff. It says at one point that calves are always taken away from their mother, which I don't think is universally true, I'm pretty sure I see calves in the fields with adults each year. It shows horns being cut off even though as far as I'm aware there's a chemical that's rubbed on to kill the routes.

But regardless, these are all problems of intensive farming. As long as we purchase our meat in supermarkets and go fro the cheapest price this is going to get worse and worse. Farmers are being forced into reducing animal welfare year on year.

It would be much better for the animals if animal rights activists concentrating on making the lives of farm animals better by forcing better standards. At the moment all they're asking is for all domestic animals to be wiped off the face of the earth.

Ms Doubtfire1

petrolcan wrote: »

There is? Care to share?

sure.can ya read?

http://nationallinkcoalition.org/faqs/what-is-the-link

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/abuse_neglect/qa/cruelty_violence_connection_faq.html?referrer=https://www.google.ie/

http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/pets/care-and-welfare/animals-and-people/the-link-between-animal-abuse-and-human-violence

Alun

petrolcan wrote: »

There is? Care to share?

You keep asking this every time this subject comes up, and clearly can't be arsed to look for yourself. Anyway, here's one ...

http://www.nyshumane.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Connection_Animal_And_Human_Abuse.pdf

Scroll down to the end of the document for references to a good number of academic studies which form the basis for this study.

Alun

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

well than in all fairness you're one of those that really needs treatment cause there's definitely something wrong with your empathy settings

Interestingly I was watching a BBC Horizon episode last week where they were studying what makes a psychopath, and one of the main "symptoms" is an almost complete lack of empathy.

They've isolated a gene which causes this, and have tested a good many people. In the vast majority of cases, people in prison for violent murder had it, but surprisingly so did a large number of what, on the face of it, were normal functioning human beings.

The interesting thing is that if you have this gene whether you go on to become a murderer is largely dependent on your upbringing. Have a balanced happy childhood, and you're probably OK. have an abusive childhood, and bingo!

Also, interestingly, one of the groupings where the highest percentage of "functioning" psychopaths was found was in the business world. Seemingly not giving a flying fcuk about people's feelings helps you make it big in business, who'd have thought it, eh?

Noveight

CaptainInsano wrote: »

Meh. I care about my dogs more than 99 percent of people. I would consider it very comparable.

Comparable if you want to make evident the vast, vast difference between the two.

Equatable? Not by a long shot.

Ms Doubtfire1

Alun wrote: »

Interestingly I was watching a BBC Horizon episode last week where they were studying what makes a psychopath, and one of the main "symptoms" is an almost complete lack of empathy.

They've isolated a gene which causes this, and have tested a good many people. In the vast majority of cases, people in prison for violent murder had it, but surprisingly so did a large number of what, on the face of it, were normal functioning human beings.

The interesting thing is that if you have this gene whether you go on to become a murderer is largely dependent on your upbringing. Have a balanced happy childhood, and you're probably OK. have an abusive childhood, and bingo!

Also, interestingly, one of the groupings where the highest percentage of "functioning" psychopaths was found was in the business world. Seemingly not giving a flying fcuk about people's feelings helps you make it big in business, who'd have thought it, eh?

ye aware of that. It doesn't bode well for the long term, prosperity of the human race all in all.

Ms Doubtfire1

Noveight wrote: »

Comparable if you want to make evident the vast, vast difference between the two.:

Equatable? Not by a long shot.

that depends on the person comparing. If I have the choice of saving a dog from being run over or another person guess what I'd do?

Alun

Alun wrote: »

Interestingly I was watching a BBC Horizon episode last week where they were studying what makes a psychopath, and one of the main "symptoms" is an almost complete lack of empathy.

They've isolated a gene which causes this, and have tested a good many people. In the vast majority of cases, people in prison for violent murder had it, but surprisingly so did a large number of what, on the face of it, were normal functioning human beings.

The interesting thing is that if you have this gene whether you go on to become a murderer is largely dependent on your upbringing. Have a balanced happy childhood, and you're probably OK. have an abusive childhood, and bingo!

Also, interestingly, one of the groupings where the highest percentage of "functioning" psychopaths was found was in the business world. Seemingly not giving a flying fcuk about people's feelings helps you make it big in business, who'd have thought it, eh?

You should read Jon ronsons the psychopath test. A really interesting book but funny as well.

ScumLord

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

actually, it's NOT as dumb as fukc. It's the only sane way to go because those who mistreat animals will go on to mistreat humans.There have been hundreds of studies to show and prove that.

Have there really??

Cerial killers have been shown to have animal abuse in their background, but that doesn't mean that everyone that's abused an animal will go on to abuse a human. Have you ever killed a fly, or a mouse? Many of us have put down poisons that have killed rodents,that's a cruel way to die, but we don't class vermin as being worthy of compassion.

humans are animals too, we're a part of the ecosystem not separate to it. Killing other creatures is part of that participation.

Ms Doubtfire1

ScumLord wrote: »

Have there really??

Cerial killers have been shown to have animal abuse in their background, but that doesn't mean that everyone that's abused an animal will go on to abuse a human. Have you ever killed a fly, or a mouse? Many of us have put down poisons that have killed rodents,that's a cruel way to die, but we don't class vermin as being worthy of compassion.

humans are animals too, we're a part of the ecosystem not separate to it. Killing other creatures is part of that participation.

1) read the links I have supplied
2) Separate between killing for food and killing / abusing for pleasure or the feeling of power

re me killing a mouse or a fly? Flies yes - but only with a quick slap, A mouse? no.i leave that to my cats as nature has intended.Nothing goes to waste that way
Two Totally different things.

ScumLord

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

1) read the links I have supplied
2) Separate between killing for food and killing / abusing for pleasure or the feeling of power

The first one seems to be mostly someone's opinion. Other than that it's saying assholes are assholes to animals too. I get what you're saying, you either have empathy for other creatures or you don't. But we are able to compartmentalise our empathy. We are an animal and our empathy was designed to be internal to our species, the fact we extend it out to other animals is a glitch, it's not the natural state for any species to extend social actions out to other species.

re me killing a mouse or a fly? Flies yes - but only with a quick slap, A mouse? no.i leave that to my cats as nature has intended.Nothing goes to waste that way
Two Totally different things.

Letting your cat kill animals is the epitome of waste. Your cat is feed so doesn't need to eat the prey it's killing. It's killing just to scratch an itch it's not actually going to eat what it catches. Cats also aren't really vermin killers, we breed dogs for that, the popular notion that we've keep cats for rodent control is a bit of a myth, they're companions and not much more.

Ms Doubtfire1

ScumLord wrote: »

The first one seems to be mostly someone's opinion. Other than that it's saying assholes are assholes to animals too. I get what you're saying, you either have empathy for other creatures or you don't. But we are able to compartmentalise our empathy. We are an animal and our empathy was designed to be internal to our species, the fact we extend it out to other animals is a glitch, it's not the natural state for any species to extend social actions out to other species.

that is correct for the stone age population. The evolved human has empathy for the ones lower in the food-chain.


[/QUOTE] Letting your cat kill animals is the epitome of waste. Your cat is feed so doesn't need to eat the prey it's killing. It's killing just to scratch an itch it's not actually going to eat what it catches. Cats also aren't really vermin killers, we breed dogs for that, the popular notion that we've keep cats for rodent control is a bit of a myth, they're companions and not much more.[/QUOTE]


Hahahaha - sorry but I REALLY have to laugh at that. You want to read up on the fact that the killing of cats was a major contributor to the plague in the 18th century cause there were not enough vermin killers.Further more, if my cats kill a mouse, they don't leave anything but the skull and the tail.

Alun

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Further more, if my cats kill a mouse, they don't leave anything but the skull and the tail.

Ditto.

ScumLord

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

that is correct for the stone age population. The evolved human has empathy for the ones lower in the food-chain.

Humans haven't really evolved all that much recently. We've reprogrammed ourselves through culture and science, but the hardware hasn't changed all that much. Up until Christianity came along animal sacrifices for religious purposes were a daily occurrence. Even the major religions state that animals are there to do with as you please, they're a resource not deserving any kind of sympathy. So this evolved human you're talking about isn't real, it's a statement you can throw out to belittle those that don't have too much empathy like you do.

Hahahaha - sorry but I REALLY have to laugh at that. You want to read up on the fact that the killing of cats was a major contributor to the plague in the 18th century cause there were not enough vermin killers.Further more, if my cats kill a mouse, they don't leave anything but the skull and the tail.

I'd love to read up on the fact that cats were a major contributor to the plague. Please provide a link, all my sources seem to have missed that fact. The fact remains though, if you were buying an animal for rodent control you wouldn't buy a cat, you'd buy a terrier, they were breed for that specific task and are a lot better at it than cats.

Boom_Bap

petrolcan wrote: »

I've drowned kittens. I've beaten dogs. I've never mistreated a human.

There is? Care to share?

Quit the trolling or don't post in the thread.

Ms Doubtfire1

ScumLord wrote: »

Humans haven't really evolved all that much recently. We've reprogrammed ourselves through culture and science, but the hardware hasn't changed all that much. Up until Christianity came along animal sacrifices for religious purposes were a daily occurrence. Even the major religions state that animals are there to do with as you please, they're a resource not deserving any kind of sympathy. So this evolved human you're talking about isn't real, it's a statement you can throw out to belittle those that don't have too much empathy like you do.
.

You are perfect proof of that lack of development I think.

here's a link..go search for yourself for others...

http://www.metaphoricalplatypus.com/articles/animals/cats/cat-history/cat-history-the-black-plague/

Ms Doubtfire1

ScumLord wrote: »

I'd love to read up on the fact that cats were a major contributor to the plague. Please provide a link, all my sources seem to have missed that fact. The fact remains though, if you were buying an animal for rodent control you wouldn't buy a cat, you'd buy a terrier, they were breed for that specific task and are a lot better at it than cats.

you wanna read my words correctly....

ScumLord

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

You are perfect proof of that lack of development I think.

here's a link..go search for yourself for others...

http://www.metaphoricalplatypus.com/articles/animals/cats/cat-history/cat-history-the-black-plague/

There's no need to resort to insults. It doesn't help your argument look any better.

It's a theory, but I still don't think it would have all that much effect. Like I said cats aren't going to be making much of a dent in rat populations. Rats are fairly large rodents. they'll put up a good fight to a cat. It would be pretty risky for a cat to focus on rats over mice and birds. How many rats would a cat kill anyway, one a day, maximum. Once it's feed it has no incentive to continue killing. A dog breed to do it however is going to kill as many rats as it can because it's not doing it for food. At any rate the cat or dog isn't going to do much about the fleas that carry the disease. It's probably only going to end up being a carrier itself and bring the fleas directly back to people.

Sanitation was the only cure to the black death.

Alun

Most farmyard cats will catch rats on an ongoing basis, killing young rats and pregnant females, keeping populations in check, but not eliminating them. If you let a rat problem get out of hand then yes, call in someone with a pair of Jack Russell to do a once off clearout, but a healthy population of cats will keep them under control after that.

petrolcan

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

well than in all fairness you're one of those that really needs treatment cause there's definitely something wrong with your empathy settings

I disagree.

The flying mouse

I am afraid of cats.

petrolcan

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

sure.can ya read?

Is there a need for the insult?

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

http://nationallinkcoalition.org/faqs/what-is-the-link

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/abuse_neglect/qa/cruelty_violence_connection_faq.html?referrer=https://www.google.ie/

http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/pets/care-and-welfare/animals-and-people/the-link-between-animal-abuse-and-human-violence

Thank you.

The flying mouse

Anyone who deliberately abuses animals should be punished.But I don't hold any animal above any human being,And I find any person saying that the abuser should be given the same or even worse punishment are as bad as people who abuse animals.

ScumLord

Alun wrote: »

Most farmyard cats will catch rats on an ongoing basis, killing young rats and pregnant females, keeping populations in check, but not eliminating them. If you let a rat problem get out of hand then yes, call in someone with a pair of Jack Russell to do a once off clearout, but a healthy population of cats will keep them under control after that.

On a farm. Might be a bit different when you're dealing with an urban food supply. More places to hide, much more food, constant influx of new rats on ships. I'd say trying to keep large food stores rodent free would be next to impossible at the time.

Alun

ScumLord wrote: »

I'd say trying to keep large food stores rodent free would be next to impossible at the time.

Tell that to the ancient Egyptians.

petrolcan

Alun wrote: »

You keep asking this every time this subject comes up, and clearly can't be arsed to look for yourself. Anyway, here's one ...

It's not that I can't be arsed, I've read several previously. The main reason that I ask is that I have had several conversations in the past where someone spouts the line 'cruel to animals means you'll be a psycho' and when challenged they cannot back it up.

Alun wrote: »

http://www.nyshumane.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Connection_Animal_And_Human_Abuse.pdf

Scroll down to the end of the document for references to a good number of academic studies which form the basis for this study.

Again, thanks.

That's not one I'd seen before but I am struck by the line (p19) "70% - 90% of all violent criminals were abused as children."

Seems to me to be an upbringing thing.

petrolcan

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

killing / abusing for pleasure or the feeling of power

I never got a feeling of pleasure or power.