Would you report a dole scammer?

Widdershins

relax carry on wrote: »

This topic comes up regularly and to be honest, I find it fascinating. Welfare fraud and tax evasion cost the state millions each year which could be put towards other uses. Whether those uses are justified is another matter. The posts here saying sure it's just a small bit, an odd nixer here and there are only thinking of the individual(s) they know of. It's a cumulative affect. All of those little bits add up to the millions reported.

We are all part of this society and there are rules and regulations to follow for the equitable treatment of all. Having a suspicion of welfare fraud or tax evasion and reporting it, doesn't mean that it is actually happening. All you are doing is providing the relevant authorities information which can be added to their existing knowledge base and may or may not lead to anything after its been investigated. There are limited numbers of Revenue and Welfare staff, so unless they get assistance like the Gardai do, combating fraud and evasion will be harder and less effective.

Yes there are problems everywhere in this society of ours but give the authorities at least some help in dealing with these specific issues regardless of your feelings on bank bailouts, tax rates, Apple etc. You are contributing to helping make the society more equitable. Keep raising all the other issues you see wrong with the society you live in with your local politicians and eventually they may get addressed. At least try.

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/ReportFraud.aspx

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/shadow-economy/reporting.html

But there's no investigation. They act on a report by cutting off peoples payment and writing to them to tell them-inform them- that they have been working. My boyfriend at the time was falsely reported (he must have been) had his payment cut off without any contact or query from social welfare. They made no investigation and gave him no warning or chance to answer for himself. Just like that.

mariaalice

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/600-people-face-social-welfare-fraud-charges-363803.html

animaal

pilly wrote: »

It's human nature to take advantage of any system that doesn't work. If all your tax wasn't taken straight from your pay would you calculate it fairly and pay it on time? Probably not, that's why the deduction at source is a system that does work. The social welfare system doesn't work because it encourages long timers while short timers struggle badly.

Yes, it's human nature. The reasons we have laws, and enforce them, is because the smooth running of society takes precedence over an individual's actions due to human nature.

If we tolerate crime (by allowing it to continue), we are in effect saying it's ok to continue doing so. And if it's ok for people to continue to commit crime, then it must be ok for more people to start commiting the same crime. There needs to be a deterrence.

relax carry on

Widdershins wrote: »

But there's no investigation. They act on a report by cutting off peoples payment and writing to them to tell them-inform them- that they have been working. My boyfriend at the time was falsely reported (he must have been) had his payment cut off without any contact or query from social welfare. They made no investigation and gave him no warning or chance to answer for himself. Just like that.

Not according to DSP'S website. If they didn't follow their own rules then a complaint should have been raised and followed through.

"Reports of abuse (whether confidential, anonymous or otherwise) should be used by Scheme Areas and Inspectors as an indication of suitable lines of enquiry. However being "hearsay evidence" they have no weight as evidence and should not be kept on file.

The "trigger" for an investigation should not be divulged to the customer as reports of scheme abuse (whether confidential, anonymous or otherwise) can be only used as an indication of suitable lines of enquiry.

The allegation must either be proved independently by obtaining sufficient evidence or by obtaining an admission from the customer before reporting to the Deciding Officer.

If putting information to the customer obtains an admission, then it is this admission that forms the necessary evidence. However, in putting this information to the customer, it should not be disclosed that it was as a result of an anonymous report.

In some instances, members of the public who make reports in confidence, will give their identity for contact purposes in support of the investigation of the case. It is imperative that confidentiality is maintained in such cases and their identity is not divulged to the customer.

If an investigation disproves the report, or fails to obtain sufficient evidence to substantiate it, no further action is required in respect of the allegation at that time and the report should be destroyed unless the investigation remains open"

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Confidential-and-Anonymous-Reports.aspx

kittensmittens

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote: »

Good advice. I might say that to him. I don't think he has a medical card or health insurance but I could give him the money. I really feel for the lad because I'm a substitute teacher (sporadic work but I'm not on JA because my partner and I technically earn enough to stay above the poverty line) and I know how hard finding work is, even with the connections I'm fortunate to have made in the four years since finishing college. He doesn't even have that advantage.

Can happen to anyone and its hard to watch.
A friend of mine suffered very severe Post Natal depression. Her doctor advised and signed for her to go on DA, the DSP wouldnt approve it(despite many letters and reports from Dr's etc).
Instead the DSP put her on Job seekers(Im not 100% sure of the exact details but I dont think there were enough stamps for JSB, again not 100% sure of all the details, not sure of what exact payment it was she received, I only know it wasnt disability)

They HOUNDED her to find work, she couldnt even shower herself at times she was so bad. Constant phone calls, letters and meetings.
She took an overdose but thankfully survived. The stress just got too much.

Widdershins

relax carry on wrote: »

Not according to DSP'S website. If they didn't follow their own rules then a complaint should have been raised and followed through.

"Reports of abuse (whether confidential, anonymous or otherwise) should be used by Scheme Areas and Inspectors as an indication of suitable lines of enquiry. However being "hearsay evidence" they have no weight as evidence and should not be kept on file.

The "trigger" for an investigation should not be divulged to the customer as reports of scheme abuse (whether confidential, anonymous or otherwise) can be only used as an indication of suitable lines of enquiry.

The allegation must either be proved independently by obtaining sufficient evidence or by obtaining an admission from the customer before reporting to the Deciding Officer.

If putting information to the customer obtains an admission, then it is this admission that forms the necessary evidence. However, in putting this information to the customer, it should not be disclosed that it was as a result of an anonymous report.

In some instances, members of the public who make reports in confidence, will give their identity for contact purposes in support of the investigation of the case. It is imperative that confidentiality is maintained in such cases and their identity is not divulged to the customer.

If an investigation disproves the report, or fails to obtain sufficient evidence to substantiate it, no further action is required in respect of the allegation at that time and the report should be destroyed unless the investigation remains open"

https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Confidential-and-Anonymous-Reports.aspx

It was few years back and we didn't know any of this, unfortunately. I have to wonder how many people the social welfare have done it to.
Now that I'm thinking about it I can remember he wasn't treated fairly on other occasions and felt powerless and totally reliant on them and at their mercy. Unless things have changed dramatically I have a feeling making a complaint would be as productive as banging your head against the wall.

mariaalice

Widdershins wrote: »

It was few years back and we didn't know any of this, unfortunately. I have to wonder how many people the social welfare have done it to.
Now that I'm thinking about it I can remember he wasn't treated fairly on other occasions and felt powerless and totally reliant on them and at their mercy. Unless things have changed dramatically I have a feeling making a complaint would be as productive as banging your head against the wall.

You would need to explain the circumstances a bit better, there are well known apples producers and if who ever he dealt with in the welfare system deviated from established procedures he would have been well within his right to complain and would have been taken seriously.

noodler

Its amazing that amount of people who who begrudge pay restoration for Public Servants but wouldn't mind/report/care about people claiming unemployment benefit illegally whilst they no pay no tax on undeclared income.


Ignore PS pay for a moment, the money being illegally claimed cannot be used for State Pensions, additional staff, capital investment, childcare programmes etc.

I'm always amazed at the way some Irish people view politicans as greedy or insidous but when the issue of an 'ordinary' type (which could mean a salary of 50k) irrefutably carrying out two illegal acts which defraud the State (Non-payment of tax and benefit fraud) they are almost encouraged.

tl:dr I'm amazed quite easily.

mariaalice

kittensmittens wrote: »

Can happen to anyone and its hard to watch.
A friend of mine suffered very severe Post Natal depression. Her doctor advised and signed for her to go on DA, the DSP wouldnt approve it(despite many letters and reports from Dr's etc).
Instead the DSP put her on Job seekers(Im not 100% sure of the exact details but I dont think there were enough stamps for JSB, again not 100% sure of all the details, not sure of what exact payment it was she received, I only know it wasnt disability)

They HOUNDED her to find work, she couldnt even shower herself at times she was so bad. Constant phone calls, letters and meetings.
She took an overdose but thankfully survived. The stress just got too much.

Why did she not apply for one parent family payment if she was a lone parent?

Widdershins

mariaalice wrote: »

You would need to explain the circumstances a bit better, there are well known apples producers and if who ever he dealt with in the welfare system deviated from established procedures he would have been well within his right to complain and would have been taken seriously.

Is apples producers a euphemism..?
I don't even remember it very well and there's not much to explain. He was claiming unemployment benefit legitimately, not working, and suddenly his payments were cut off and he received a letter telling him it was because he had been working while claiming the payments-which he had not.

I can't remember the other issues I just have the impression that it was not a nice time when unemployed and drawing social welfare, and dealing with the social welfare department was unpleasant. We always felt that there were people who knew their way around the system and even deliberately 'milked' it and that they didn't seem to have any trouble from the social welfare people, and they kept claiming it for years without ever being bothered.

mariaalice

noodler wrote: »

Its amazing that amount of people who who begrudge pay restoration for Public Servants but wouldn't mind/report/care about people claiming unemployment benefit illegally whilst they no pay no tax on undeclared income.


Ignore PS pay for a moment, the money being illegally claimed cannot be used for State Pensions, additional staff, capital investment, childcare programmes etc.

I'm always amazed at the way some Irish people view politicans as greedy or insidous but when the issue of an 'ordinary' type (which could mean a salary of 50k) irrefutably carrying out two illegal acts which defraud the State (Non-payment of tax and benefit fraud) they are almost encouraged.

tl:dr I'm amazed quite easily.

Nobody should be braking the law, but they does not explain the massive interest in this one issue.

Milly33

I dont think i would. If you had asked me a few years ago knowing a few people who were doing it, I would have been thinking I would. But in fairness if they cant figure out which ones are the scammers and which ones arent they thats their own wrong doing..

mariaalice

Widdershins wrote: »

Is apples producers a euphemism..?
I don't even remember it very well and there's not much to explain. He was claiming unemployment benefit legitimately, not working, and suddenly his payments were cut off and he received a letter telling him it was because he had been working while claiming the payments-which he had not.

I can't remember the other issues I just have the impression that it was not a nice time when unemployed and drawing social welfare, and dealing with the social welfare department was unpleasant. We always felt that there were people who knew their way around the system and even deliberately 'milked' it and that they didn't seem to have any trouble from the social welfare people, and they kept claiming it for years without ever being bothered.

I mean appeal, did he get his payments restored?

Widdershins

mariaalice wrote: »

I mean appeal, did he get his payments restored?

Hard to have faith in it when you've got the impression we had gotten at that stage. He didn't . I don't know how he managed. After a while found work and he's never claimed any benefits since then. He was also told to pay back a certain amount of his social welfare at the time which obviously he did not do as he had been wrongly cut off, and didn't have the money anyway.

the_syco

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

That's the job of the Social Welfare Inspectors and if there's not enough of them, maybe more should be employed.

So more should be spent because there is less money to go around?

Summer wind wrote: »

They are on huge salaries to run the country so let them do their jobs and I'll do mine.

This is something I never got. How people don't mind being scammed by the politicians, and scammed by the people.

Summer wind wrote: »

Me reporting Johnny or Mary down the road even if I wanted to do it wouldn't make any difference.

Over a third of the governments spend is Social Welfare. There is no money for more nurses. If there was less fraud, it stands to reason that there'd be more money.

Summer wind wrote: »

The government have created this mess let them sort it.

And because the low level fraud is tolerated, you'll find that the politicians get away with fraud. And not much is said about their €5,000 pay increase.

mahoganygas

mariaalice wrote: »

Nobody should be braking the law, but they does not explain the massive interest in this one issue.

That's like saying why bother giving people motoring fines when there are murderers out there?

I suspect the reason why people (myself included) are so irked by social welfare fraud is because it is often brazen and calculated stealing. On top of that, people who genuinely rely on the resources of the Department of Social Protection are directly impacted by this fraud.

In my eyes, it's the same as stealing from a charity. Disgusting.
That's why I have massive interest in it.

Walter H Price

mahoganygas wrote: »

That's like saying why bother giving people motoring fines when there are murderers out there?

I suspect the reason why people (myself included) are so irked by social welfare fraud is because it is often brazen and calculated stealing. On top of that, people who genuinely rely on the resources of the Department of Social Protection are directly impacted by this fraud.

In my eyes, it's the same as stealing from a charity. Disgusting.
That's why I have massive interest in it.

that plus we pay enough in tax and its beyond irritating to see it squandered on welfare recipients rater then spent on improving infrastructure , hospitals ,schools etc...

Most people will tolerate it for genuine cases of misfortune but the ones choosing it as a lifestyle choice should be cut off

Joshua J

Where's all these cash in hand full time jobs lol?. Ye talk like there out there and you know of it and say ye'd report it but none of ye have mentioned a time ye did report. Conclusion: lads dreaming of fairytale full time cash in hand jobs so they can have an outlet for their anger on people they feel superior to. Can we get examples lads that aren't figments of your imagination of these jobs. And not "Well Paddy down the road told me.......".

pilly

animaal wrote: »

Yes, it's human nature. The reasons we have laws, and enforce them, is because the smooth running of society takes precedence over an individual's actions due to human nature.

If we tolerate crime (by allowing it to continue), we are in effect saying it's ok to continue doing so. And if it's ok for people to continue to commit crime, then it must be ok for more people to start commiting the same crime. There needs to be a deterrence.

I agree it's the reason we have laws I just don't believe it's the general publics duty to be judge, jury and executioner in this case by reporting someone. In fact it could be used against someone simply because of a grudge and it has been.

I don't think I actually know anybody on the dole. In terms of ratting out parasites, I'd rather report John Bruton for taking millions in a pension in the past 34 years since he was 34 years old in 1982 (€142,000 last year alone).

But that remains "legal" so, no, I don't feel like ratting out the little parasite who is doing something illegal while the far greater parasite who's doing something legal is apparently "respectable".

pilly

Joshua J wrote: »

Where's all these cash in hand full time jobs lol?. Ye talk like there out there and you know of it and say ye'd report it but none of ye have mentioned a time ye did report. Conclusion: lads dreaming of fairytale full time cash in hand jobs so they can have an outlet for their anger on people they feel superior to. Can we get examples lads that aren't figments of your imagination of these jobs. And not "Well Paddy down the road told me.......".

Good point, very very few places pay people cash in hand anymore, which is a good thing. There are still the odd nixers going on but they are not full time work.

Joshua J

pilly wrote: »

Good point, very very few places pay people cash in hand anymore, which is a good thing. There are still the odd nixers going on but they are not full time work.

Not one person running a business would pay someone cash in hand for a full time job, it's a fantasy that the lads on here have.

the_syco

Joshua J wrote: »

Where's all these cash in hand full time jobs lol?. Ye talk like there out there and you know of it and say ye'd report it but none of ye have mentioned a time ye did report.

Most lads that I know who do "cash in hand" jobs do their own tax.

mariaalice

mahoganygas wrote: »

That's like saying why bother giving people motoring fines when there are murderers out there?

I suspect the reason why people (myself included) are so irked by social welfare fraud is because it is often brazen and calculated stealing. On top of that, people who genuinely rely on the resources of the Department of Social Protection are directly impacted by this fraud.

In my eyes, it's the same as stealing from a charity. Disgusting.
That's why I have massive interest in it.

But do you know for certain the exact circumstances of individuals who are calming welfare or are you responding to a belief that there is massive welfare fraud that is my point.

Joshua J

the_syco wrote: »

Most lads that I know who do "cash in hand" jobs do their own tax.

Self-employed and on the scratcher?. You sure?. You're not making it up?.

RainyDay

Joshua J wrote: »

Your average high ranking Civil servant would spend more on lunch putting it through expenses than Jimmy getting a few euro for a nixxer.

Did Jimmy get less than €14 for his nixer? 'cos that's the civil servant's lunch allowance, on days that he happens to be more than 8km from his office.

http://circulars.gov.ie/pdf/circular/per/2015/05.pdf

If you want to see the expense claims, just submit an FOI request. It is all public record.

mahoganygas

mariaalice wrote: »

But do you know for certain the exact circumstances of individuals who are calming welfare or are you responding to a belief that there is massive welfare fraud that is my point.

Both.

mahoganygas wrote: »

I know somebody close to me who hasn't worked since finishing school. He has spent the best part of a decade on various courses (unfinished), schemes, and applying for jobs that he is guaranteed not to get.

He has no intention of working and will be quite honest about this. But he will do jobs on the side as they arrise.

He is a family member so I would not report him.

I have to bite my tongue every time he gives out about our 'corrupt government' who doesn't care about the working class. I have to leave the room when he says he's heading out to collect his 'wages' then comes back with fags, lotto tickets and take aways.

It's getting harder and harder to stay quiet.

I cancelled plans with him one day as I had just worked a 50 hour week and needed a night to just relax in front of the telly. I nearly went for him when he said 'ah sure you're always tired'.

mariaalice

Joshua J wrote: »

Self-employed and on the scratcher?. You sure?. You're not making it up?.

It might surprise you the amount of self employed people calming family income supplement. That is what always make me suspicious of these kind of threads. It is nearly always better if someone has work to claim FIS.

Joshua J

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Balls - that's whataboutery of the highest order.

A crime is a crime, and those who are scamming the social are reducing the amount in the pot for genuine cases. If you actually contributed to society and paid taxes, I'd imagine you would understand why people stealing public money meant as a leg up to the vulnerable is a problem for most people.

A crime is a crime yeah?. Well until the law applies to everyone equally and not just those who can't buy it I'm not gonna fret about the a lad getting a few Euro when absolute fortunes are leaving the country every year into off shore bank accounts of the already very wealthy. Look this system is going to collapse on top of itself with greed sooner rather than later but I won't be a part of it.

You do you.

kittensmittens

mariaalice wrote: »

Why did she not apply for one parent family payment if she was a lone parent?

Her GP didnt see her as "fit for work" and DA was applied for and refused. The DSP put her on Job Seekers.
All very well and good saying this that and the other, but when someone is in the middle of serious mental illness, you expect the "services" to serve you properly.
They dont.
I'm sure you'll be glad to know that she recovered(after 2 years of a very hard path)and is back at work.

Foxhound38

Joshua J wrote: »

A crime is a crime yeah?. Well until the law applies to everyone equally and not just those who can't buy it I'm not gonna fret about the a lad getting a few Euro when absolute fortunes are leaving the country every year into off shore bank accounts of the already very wealthy. Look this system is going to collapse on top of itself with greed sooner rather than later but I won't be a part of it.

You do you.

So presumably you're not going to see assaults as a problem because murders also happen then too?

Some people break the law so it's OK if everyone breaks the law? Nobody should be allowed to break the law - anything less is whataboutery and you know it.

Joshua J

Foxhound38 wrote: »

So presumably you're not going to see assaults as a problem because murders also happen then too?

Some people break the law so it's OK if everyone breaks the law? Nobody should be allowed to break the law - anything less is whataboutery and you know it.

We were talking about the pilfering of public funds, if you want to make a ridiculous comparison that's up to you. You want to go from the bottom and go after the lad making 50E whereas I'd rather go after the lads taking millions but there's no guts to do it, turkeys don't vote for chritmas. So I'm to just shrug my shoulders and say "Well the big lads are untouchable I'll go after the little lad instead". Nah I'll leave it, batter away yourself.

Mortpourvelo

Offshore tax management is legal.

Stealing from public funds is not.

End of.

Unearthly

Yes I would. I worked hard through life to get a proper job and put in long hours each week and pay a huge amount of tax so definitely if I saw someone abusing that money I'd report it

Mortpourvelo

Offshore tax management is legal.

Stealing from public funds is not.

End of.

the_syco

Joshua J wrote: »

Self-employed and on the scratcher?. You sure?. You're not making it up?.

Never said "on the scratcher", I said "cash in hand". My point was that those that I know who do "cash in hand" are still on the up and up. There is a large market for "cash in hand" jobs, but as it's done by word of mouth, it's Russian Roulette with the taxman if you're not doing your own taxes.

corner of hells

Unearthly wrote: »

Yes I would. I worked hard through life to get a proper job and put in long hours each week and pay a huge amount of tax so definitely if I saw someone abusing that money I'd report it

I would too.
Recently an acquaintance of mine was caught not paying tax in a second income of about 150 euros a week on top of being in full time employment.

What was astonishing was that he tried find out if someone had tipped of revenue about him and then tried to justify what he had been doing .
He had this this second income of 150 euro a week for about 10 years and argued with the dept of revenue until they told him to be grateful that they weren't going to look at a persecution or seek money off him.

70 grand tax free.

Joshua J

the_syco wrote: »

Never said "on the scratcher", I said "cash in hand". My point was that those that I know who do "cash in hand" are still on the up and up. There is a large market for "cash in hand" jobs, but as it's done by word of mouth, it's Russian Roulette with the taxman if you're not doing your own taxes.

Ah ok I see your point now but that's tax evasion not dole scamming. Yes there are cash in hand jobs, usually done by registered traders my issue was with people claiming that there are people working full-time cash in hand jobs making 400-500 euro p/w while on the scratcher. That's fantasy land imo.

Joshua J

Mortpourvelo wrote: »

Offshore tax management is legal.

Stealing from public funds is not.

End of.

Let me write the law I'll make anything legal. Even better, for a large fee, I'll do it for you to .

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Foxhound38 wrote:

What does this have to do with TD's salaries?

Because it was Varadkar who said to report them!

Walter H Price wrote:

such a lazy ill thought out argument.

You are the one who brought the "strain on the system" into it! They just tried to raise their own salaries by a substantial amount.

Summer wind

the_syco wrote: »

So more should be spent because there is less money to go around?


This is something I never got. How people don't mind being scammed by the politicians, and scammed by the people.


Over a third of the governments spend is Social Welfare. There is no money for more nurses. If there was less fraud, it stands to reason that there'd be more money.


And because the low level fraud is tolerated, you'll find that the politicians get away with fraud. And not much is said about their €5,000 pay increase.

Yes I agree with you completely the welfare system is being abused by some. In my area alone there are generations of able bodied men and women that have never held a job. Surely when so much of the governments spend is on social welfare it should be their top priority to lessen that spend. I don't believe it should have to fall to the public to do their work for them.

Riva10

Unearthly wrote: »

Yes I would. I worked hard through life to get a proper job and put in long hours each week and pay a huge amount of tax so definitely if I saw someone abusing that money I'd report it

Who do you report TDs and Senators to? :eek:

Widdershins

Riva10 wrote: »

Who do you report TDs and Senators to? :eek:

Would that we could!

dublinman1990

I thought it would be much harder to claim fraud on social welfare now than it was in the past.

I knew of a recent system upgrade that relates to collecting SW payments in my local post office while collecting JA for a short time. When I collected that payment in the post office for a period of two weeks; I had to have my PS ID card scanned from a machine & sign my name via a digital signature to claim my payment. I thought is a very good idea in all fairness. Now if the DSP had implemented laws to include a extra layer of security such as a biometric fingerprint scan which would replace the need of a digital signature from a claimant; that could help the distribution of SW payments going to genuine cases to be fairer & more accurate instead of going to the dole cheats.

I could be open to correction on this; but would you think that this is a good idea in principle to reduce the annual spend on SW payments in general?

Before this type of scheme happened; people would have to claim social welfare via a paper receipt to claim their payment which I was thought was a very outdated system now & which was open to constant abuse.

I wonder what will happen if a dole cheat had the intention to collect their payment in the post office & find out their payment have not been processed after the machine detects a mismatch of information from the intended claimant. Would automatic reporting of that type of fraud to the DSP & to others like The Gardaí be substantially increased in that instance?

To keep on topic; No I would not report someone to the DSP for dole fraud because I would think the entire consequence of reporting on suspected fraud is a very complex issue to find out on the part of the claimant. I don't want to find myself in the situation of reporting inaccurate evidence on suspected dole cheats. I think a person would need a level headed scope of knowledge on that person before they would have the intention to report them for fraud to the authorities.

FloatingVoter

I work for the DSP and no...I wouldn't snitch on a bit of graft on the side.
The few I do see squealing are embittered exes trying to get one over. They are listened to in a considerate manner and filed under the empty fag packet in the bin.

Away From Home

I wouldn't rat, people should worry about themselves and stop sticking their noses into others business.

I'd say there's very few actually working full time now and still collecting their full dole, 90%+ are getting a day here and a day there, live and let live.

Widdershins

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I work for the DSP and no...I wouldn't snitch on a bit of graft on the side.
The few I do see squealing are embittered exes trying to get one over. They are listened to in a considerate manner and filed under the empty fag packet in the bin.

Seriously? Should you not investigate it and rule it out if it is a false complaint?

FloatingVoter

Widdershins wrote: »

Seriously? Should you not investigate it and rule it out if it is a false complaint?

Most are wobbling into an Intreo office, scribbling some half arsed "complaint" on the form. A quick "investigation" divulges the barring order, the womens refuge and the sad squealers past. They are pests.
She might be doing a little on the side. He's on drugs, refusing to pay maintenance and this is his Friday afternoon. You be the judge.

Widdershins

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Most are wobbling into an Intreo office, scribbling some half arsed "complaint" on the form. A quick "investigation" divulges the barring order, the womens refuge and the sad squealers past. They are pests.
She might be doing a little on the side. He's on drugs, refusing to pay maintenance and this is his Friday afternoon. You be the judge.

I get you now!

Edups

Jodotman wrote: »

From free money. I wouldn't class it as rent. Are they paying 1100 a month for somewhere decent to live?



Widowed - no problem with that.
Father fecked off? Well thats the womens fault. Have a stable income before having kids.

I truly hope you one day find yourself in a position to eat those words. How very dare you.