Would you report a dole scammer?

RainyDay

Riva10 wrote: »

Who do you report TDs and Senators to? :eek:

SIPO is yer only man - knock yourself out.

http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/Make-a-Complaint/Investigation-of-complaints/

nice_guy80

If they're able to work a few nixxers, surely they could just get a full time job?
Like most people try to do

Oh no, wait. Then they'd lose all the benefits - dole, free housing, medical card, free school books, free school uniforms, free communion dresses, help at christmas, help to pay household bills, money from SVdP

Goya

I dislike scammers as much as anyone but if a person qualified in a trade is on social welfare just while looking for a job and they do a nixer now and again (which is hardly enough to make a living) they're being enterprising surely. Better than being stuck at home all day.

And I doubt those who are critical of it wouldn't do the same. Of course they would!

Alun

Flimpson wrote: »

I dislike scammers as much as anyone but if a person qualified in a trade is on social welfare just while looking for a job and they do a nixer now and again (which is hardly enough to make a living) they're being enterprising surely. Better than being stuck at home all day.

What they are doing though is taking work away from other legitimate tradesmen, who in turn are probably employing other tradespeople. Reducing the amount of work they get could ultimately end up with them having to let one of their employees go. How is that a good thing?

Cartouche

The maximum dole available to any person should be 12 months. If you are able to work and cannot find any job after 12 months maybe you have an attitude problem. We have thousands of people in this country who spend their whole lives on welfare..... even in times of economic prosperity when we are importing workers from other countries.
Why do these people expect the working person to pay for them their whole life ?

Flint Fredstone

Cartouche wrote: »

The maximum dole available to any person should be 12 months. If you are able to work and cannot find any job after 12 months maybe you have an attitude problem. We have thousands of people in this country who spend their whole lives on welfare..... even in times of economic prosperity when we are importing workers from other countries.
Why do these people expect the working person to pay for them their whole life ?

Welfare as a lifestyle choice needs to be stamped out but at the same time I would imagine the amount of unemployed adults vastly outweighs the amount of available positions no?

I had a mate moan at me all through the boom times that he couldn't find a job anywhere. He never looked. He literally expected people to come to him and offer him a job. Friends often got him something and he would be missing days within the first week. Some people are not compatible with a working life through their own actions... or lack thereof.

That type of person should not be given enough money to live comfortably and be able to drink and smoke. A roof over their head and food vouchers is the most that they should be entitled to.

JohanFr

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I had a mate moan at me all through the boom times that he couldn't find a job anywhere. He never looked. He literally expected people to come to him and offer him a job. Friends often got him something and he would be missing days within the first week.

Sounds like someone who was lying to himself.

You have to go do something ****ty, ... but then you realize you can't because something that was previously minor and way down the list suddenly gets in the way.


Today: I know I have to go to the dentist but I can't do it today because I have to dig up that weed in the back garden. Shame I can't make it, but weeds are a very serious issue.

Yesterday: who gives a fck about the garden.

Goya

Alun wrote: »

What they are doing though is taking work away from other legitimate tradesmen, who in turn are probably employing other tradespeople. Reducing the amount of work they get could ultimately end up with them having to let one of their employees go. How is that a good thing?

It happens more like "Brian, do you want a few quid? I've a radiator that needs checking" or "Friend of mine needs the boiler checked" etc though - it's a "who you know" thing, done for convenience, and cost savings.

nice_guy80

Denial of dole money and other free services can be an amazing motivator for wasters

Which is what the majority of them are.

OldNotWIse

Welfare rates along with added benefits like RA and medical cards, make work less enticing, especially work that might only pay a tenner an hour. They need an incentive to get out and work. i.e. cut the rates

steddyeddy

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Welfare rates along with added benefits like RA and medical cards, make work less enticing, especially work that might only pay a tenner an hour. They need an incentive to get out and work. i.e. cut the rates

Well quit then and join the social welfare paradise.

Widdershins

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well quit then and join the social welfare paradise.

You can't claim social welfare if you've resigned (I know you were being sarcastic, but..)

Wanderer78

OldNotWIse wrote:

Welfare rates along with added benefits like RA and medical cards, make work less enticing, especially work that might only pay a tenner an hour. They need an incentive to get out and work. i.e. cut the rates

steddyeddy wrote:

Well quit then and join the social welfare paradise.

We have to stop this bloody race to the bottom in the working world, it's a bloody parasite

Edups

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Welfare rates along with added benefits like RA and medical cards, make work less enticing, especially work that might only pay a tenner an hour. They need an incentive to get out and work. i.e. cut the rates

...
BAHAHHAAHAHAHA

stop

At 10 odd an hour even a part time job offers me more cash in my wallet than job seekers would unit I think 24? I assure you cutting the JSA wouldn't make the lazy scum who have no plan to work get a job any faster, it just affects the ones who are genuinely trying and struggling more. It's either everyone is better off or everyone suffers, and someone who finds themselves on hard times shouldn't have to suffer because of some *****

OldNotWIse

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well quit then and join the social welfare paradise.

No, because I have a work ethic (and also earn more than a tenner an hour)

OldNotWIse

Edups wrote: »

...
BAHAHHAAHAHAHA

stop

At 10 odd an hour even a part time job offers me more cash in my wallet than job seekers would unit I think 24? I assure you cutting the JSA wouldn't make the lazy scum who have no plan to work get a job any faster, it just affects the ones who are genuinely trying and struggling more. It's either everyone is better off or everyone suffers, and someone who finds themselves on hard times shouldn't have to suffer because of some *****

Presumably someone finding themselves in hard times is relatively transient so why not give them more when they lose their jobs, and less to those on it long term. Why should someone who has been working for years and then loses their job get the same as someone who never worked? Why not link the rate to your contributions?

OldNotWIse

Cartouche wrote: »

The maximum dole available to any person should be 12 months. If you are able to work and cannot find any job after 12 months maybe you have an attitude problem. We have thousands of people in this country who spend their whole lives on welfare..... even in times of economic prosperity when we are importing workers from other countries.
Why do these people expect the working person to pay for them their whole life ?

Comin' over here, takin' our jobs, takin' our wimin

osarusan

Cartouche wrote: »

The maximum dole available to any person should be 12 months. If you are able to work and cannot find any job after 12 months maybe you have an attitude problem.

And then what?

What happens after 12 months?

Wanderer78

osarusan wrote: »

And then what?

What happens after 12 months?

its pretty obvious, starvation then death, or maybe desperation, criminality, starvation, then death! im not sure yet though as thankfully i havent had any experience.

Widdershins

osarusan wrote: »

And then what?

What happens after 12 months?

If you haven't found a job you mustn't have been trying hard enough.That's the theory, I think. If you were trying hard, well tough sh** anyway.

Macy0161

I don't believe in cutting rates, or limiting them.

However, anyone claiming after 12 months should be going somewhere every working day, be that training, jobs club, ce type scheme, even men's/ womens shed type stuff. Sitting around all day everyday and/or working and claiming just shouldn't be an option.

Edups

Wanderer78 wrote: »

its pretty obvious, starvation then death, or maybe desperation, criminality, starvation, then death! im not sure yet though as thankfully i havent had any experience.

Thank God some of ye aren't in a power position. You haven't two brain cells to bang together.

Flint Fredstone

Edups wrote: »

Thank God some of ye aren't in a power position. You haven't two brain cells to bang together.

And you haven't two sarcasm cells to bang together.

I would be in the reporting camp much of the time - but as with all things context can play heavily.

But since it _is_ a limited resource and if scammers _do_ drive down the availability of dole to those who actually need it - just like if insurance scammers _do_ somewhat drive up premiums for the honest joe - or nonsense woo alternative medicine might take resources away from HSE funds to fund actual treatments to people who actually need it - I would be heavily emotionally biased towards undermining that harm. And if that means reporting someone who has a job and is claiming the dole - or someone getting a huge payout for a car accident damaging their neck but they are every day out playing football with their kids - then so be it.

And if my tax money is paying that dole then they are not just stealing from people who need the dole - they are also stealing from _me_.

But that is a generalisation and context and actual situations will likely differ. I can think of exceptions. I am sure others can too.

Tsipras

Jesus even if half the people on the dole were scammers it would be peanuts compared to how much the banks scammed us we're all still paying for it and will be next time when it happens again.
They must laugh their asses off at people getting so annoyed over poor people having a bit of cash when they've cost us trillions and will again.

Edups

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

And you haven't two sarcasm cells to bang together.

Your retort is fantastic, will you be my teacher?

Flint Fredstone

Tsipras wrote: »

Jesus even if half the people on the dole were scammers it would be peanuts compared to how much the banks scammed us we're all still paying for it and will be next time when it happens again.
They must laugh their asses off at people getting so annoyed over poor people having a bit of cash when they've cost us trillions and will again.

You think people are ok with that? You can disapprove of more than one thing you know.

Flint Fredstone

Edups wrote: »

Your retort is fantastic, will you be my teacher?

You picked it up wrong. Don't worry, you'll get over it.

toadfly

I reported a colleagues boyfriend years ago, nothing came of it as far as I know. He was working cash in hand for 4 years earning about 30k annually and getting the dole.

MeatTwoVeg

Tsipras wrote:

Jesus even if half the people on the dole were scammers it would be peanuts compared to how much the banks scammed us we're all still paying for it and will be next time when it happens again. They must laugh their asses off at people getting so annoyed over poor people having a bit of cash when they've cost us trillions and will again.

I love the way someone pops up on every thread on Boards with a 'whatabout the banks' post.

Perhaps posters should caveat all their posts with a 'I don't support some of the reckless banking practices prevalent during the Boom either'. Just so we can avoid Mr 'What about the Banks' feeling he needs to interject with another non sequitur.

Macy0161

Tsipras wrote: »

Jesus even if half the people on the dole were scammers it would be peanuts compared to how much the banks scammed us we're all still paying for it and will be next time when it happens again.
They must laugh their asses off at people getting so annoyed over poor people having a bit of cash when they've cost us trillions and will again.

Wasn't aware it was either be annoyed at dole scammers or the banks. There was me annoyed with both....

OldNotWIse

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I love the way someone pops up on every thread on Boards with a 'whatabout the banks' post.

Perhaps posters should caveat all their posts with a 'I don't support some of the reckless banking practices prevalent during the Boom either'. Just so we can avoid Mr 'What about the Banks' feeling he needs to interject with another non sequitur.

Agree. It's like the two things are mutually exclusive or something, like we can't be annoyed about both :rolleyes:

Tsipras

Because it has no real impact on the world, the amounts are so small in the scheme of things, where as what banks do (not just the Boom,today right now) does have a huge negative impact on the world.
And 99% people on the dole are poor disadvantaged people just trying to get by and treads like these just play into the narrative of poor people being to blame for society's problems which is absolute nonsense.

Allinall

Tsipras wrote: »

Because it has no real impact on the world, the amounts are so small in the scheme of things, where as what banks do (not just the Boom,today right now) does have a huge negative impact on the world.
And 99% people on the dole are poor disadvantaged people just trying to get by and treads like these just play into the narrative of poor people being to blame for society's problems which is absolute nonsense.

The naivety in this post is astounding.

MeatTwoVeg

Tsipras wrote:

Because it has no real impact on the world, the amounts are so small in the scheme of things, where as what banks do (not just the Boom,today right now) does have a huge negative impact on the world. And 99% people on the dole are poor disadvantaged people just trying to get by and treads like these just play into the narrative of poor people being to blame for society's problems which is absolute nonsense.

Where're you getting your 99% figure from?

Tsipras

Anecdotal experience. Even if it's 90% my point would still be the same

Shergar6

toadfly wrote: »

I reported a colleagues boyfriend years ago, nothing came of it as far as I know. He was working cash in hand for 4 years earning about 30k annually and getting the dole.

In theory i wouldn't mind reporting somebody like this .. but i doubt i'd go to the effort of doing it unless he was really obnoxious. I know how horrible it is to have to be on the dole - albeit in my job i had no choice because they didn't pay me 3 months of the year so i had to sign on for that. It's not a nice way to live. I know a few guys around who are long term on the dole and as easy as it is to say they are lazy and idle, i actually feel sorry for them because a lot of them are just depressed. I think depression can lead to going on the dole in the first place and the lack of motivation to actually get work is crippling. Confidence disappears. And then you are stuck on some scheme for a year that makes you hate your life even more - you start boozing and the rest. A few of these guys have committed suicide in the last few years.

I do think think it's a good idea to get long term dolers into something, but it has to be worthwhile for them. If only to get them out of the house. They are out meeting people and you never know what might come of it.

At the end of the day, i think the vast majority of people want to be out working, but if there's only ****ty low paying jobs with no future opportunities then i don't blame them for saying '**** this'. Most people are getting college degrees now and still have to go work in a restaurant - if they're lucky.

Foxhound38

Tsipras wrote: »

Jesus even if half the people on the dole were scammers it would be peanuts compared to how much the banks scammed us we're all still paying for it and will be next time when it happens again.
They must laugh their asses off at people getting so annoyed over poor people having a bit of cash when they've cost us trillions and will again.

You realize that if something was done about the ****ehawks scamming the system, there would be more in the pot for genuine cases?

Why are you defending people that earn more cash in hand than many young people do going to a 9 - 5.30 for 5 days a week, then have the gall to claim dole on top of that? Sometimes I wonder why any of us eejits bother our holes to work legit while attitudes like that abound in this country.

What has any part of this thread got to do with banks? Do you make a habit of coming into discussions about armed robberies to have a rant about arsonists?

Tsipras

Ha ha like the government are using any of the money they save to help people who need it - Nah I don't believe for a second they're be 'more of a pot' for genuine cases, I think the government would think - wow we made some money catching people we should try even harder, in fact let's make people's lives on the dole such a misery by chasing them for a few euro that they'll f**k off and leave the country or top themselves and then it won't be our problem.

And the armed robberies - arsonists analogy? You're equating the two things, how does anybody really think scamming the dole is as bad as a system which causes people to be on the dole in the first place

Walter H Price

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote: »

Because it was Varadkar who said to report them!

You are the one who brought the "strain on the system" into it! They just tried to raise their own salaries by a substantial amount.

their salaries which they work for and pay the top bracket USC , PAYE and PRSI on those salaries , that's not a strain on the system that is the system. Work , Earn and Contribute , all PAYE workers do it politicians are no exception. if they paid no tax you might have a point but they do and you don't.

The strain comes when you scam welfare do f all take your dole money and get paid a bit of cheeky tax free cash in hand on the side contributing nothing other than the bare minimum VAT ... Thats the issue no PAYE / USC / PRSI tax in , dole money out.

You shouldn't qualify for it at all untill you have worked for 3-5 full years either full or part time and after that your payments should reflect your contribution (payed more tax receive more welfare if you become unemployed) and be reduced on a sliding scale over a 3-5 year period. That's a fair system that removes welfare as a lifestyle choice , children's allowance should be provided as a tax break (based on contribution) not a cash payment as should single mothers.

Employers should be incentivised to hire Irish staff over foreign workers particularly in blue collar and low skill sectors this would free up more than enough work for those currently living off the state. additionally while in receipt of welfare you should have to log some number of voluntary hours per week in order to claim , thus contributing in an alternative way while out of work.

OldNotWIse

Walter H Price wrote: »

their salaries which they work for and pay the top bracket USC , PAYE and PRSI on those salaries , that's not a strain on the system that is the system. Work , Earn and Contribute , all PAYE workers do it politicians are no exception. if they paid no tax you might have a point but they do and you don't.

The strain comes when you scam welfare do f all take your dole money and get paid a bit of cheeky tax free cash in hand on the side contributing nothing other than the bare minimum VAT ... Thats the issue no PAYE / USC / PRSI tax in , dole money out.

You shouldn't qualify for it at all untill you have worked for 3-5 full years either full or part time and after that your payments should reflect your contribution (payed more tax receive more welfare if you become unemployed) and be reduced on a sliding scale over a 3-5 year period. That's a fair system that removes welfare as a lifestyle choice , children's allowance should be provided as a tax break (based on contribution) not a cash payment as should single mothers.

Employers should be incentivised to hire Irish staff over foreign workers particularly in blue collar and low skill sectors this would free up more than enough work for those currently living off the state. additionally while in receipt of welfare you should have to log some number of voluntary hours per week in order to claim , thus contributing in an alternative way while out of work.

Agree with most of this except incentivizing employers to hire Irish. How could this be done without discrimination based on nationality? Either someone has a permit/permission to work or they don't. If they have permission to work they are as entitled as anyone to try to secure a job. Also, I don't think this would necessarily remove a lot of people from the live register. There was a time when any McDonalds or Burger King etc had predominantly foreign national staff, and it wasn't because the companies were being incentivized to employ them - they just couldn't get Irish people willing to work for €9 an hour. Ironically, probably the same people who complain about them "taking our jobs".

Also, a sliding scale is good in theory to prevent a culture of welfare as a lifestyle choice. I'd much rather have a system where if a man or woman who has been working for years in a high paying job (and as a result probably has large outgoings, mortgage etc) gets more money if they are laid off and presumably seeking other employment, which then dips off, than give everyone a flat rate regardless of whether they have ever worked in their lives.

Riva10

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

You think people are ok with that? You can disapprove of more than one thing you know.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let him without sin, cast the first stone.:D

Riva10

Allinall wrote: »

The naivety in this post is astounding.

And you are being obnoxious :mad:

Walter H Price

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Agree with most of this except incentivizing employers to hire Irish. How could this be done without discrimination based on nationality? Either someone has a permit/permission to work or they don't. If they have permission to work they are as entitled as anyone to try to secure a job. Also, I don't think this would necessarily remove a lot of people from the live register. There was a time when any McDonalds or Burger King etc had predominantly foreign national staff, and it wasn't because the companies were being incentivized to employ them - they just couldn't get Irish people willing to work for €9 an hour. Ironically, probably the same people who complain about them "taking our jobs".

Also, a sliding scale is good in theory to prevent a culture of welfare as a lifestyle choice. I'd much rather have a system where if a man or woman who has been working for years in a high paying job (and as a result probably has large outgoings, mortgage etc) gets more money if they are laid off and presumably seeking other employment, which then dips off, than give everyone a flat rate regardless of whether they have ever worked in their lives.

My view the Irish government should seek to provide jobs for irish people as a priority if that means a discriminatory incentive scheme so be it.

If your alternitive as a young lad leaving school was to go flipping burgers or cleaning toilets or have literally 0 income (No welfare untill 3-5 full years in part or full time employment) i guarantee they will take the job.

Full agree with payment based on contribution there's a big difference losing a low paying job to loosing a job with a goo salerie where you have been contributing far more.

OldNotWIse

Walter H Price wrote: »

My view the Irish government should seek to provide jobs for irish people as a priority if that means a discriminatory incentive scheme so be it.

If your alternitive as a young lad leaving school was to go flipping burgers or cleaning toilets or have literally 0 income (No welfare untill 3-5 full years in part or full time employment) i guarantee they will take the job.

Full agree with payment based on contribution there's a big difference losing a low paying job to loosing a job with a goo salerie where you have been contributing far more.

But my point was that these jobs existed and it seemed many Irish people didn't want them.

pilly

OldNotWIse wrote: »

But my point was that these jobs existed and it seemed many Irish people didn't want them.

Look guys, both these arguments are irrelevant as if someone is entitled to work in this country then they're entitled to social welfare also so every job is taking someone off the live register whether they be Irish or not.

Glenster

Simple solution,

Limit the length people can get the dole for. six months, a year tops.

the idea that some tracksuit wearing pleb thinks he's entitled to free money forever is crazy to me.

Allinall

Riva10 wrote: »

And you are being obnoxious :mad:

Aw... Does the truth upset you ?

Flint Fredstone

Riva10 wrote: »

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let him without sin, cast the first stone.:D

If we all thought like that there would be no money for anyone.

Walter H Price

OldNotWIse wrote: »

But my point was that these jobs existed and it seemed many Irish people didn't want them.

I think youre still missing it the starting point is no dole no welfare payments full stop unless you have worked and payed tax for a minimum 3-5 years ... So people wont be in a position where they can turn down work of any kind.

pilly wrote: »

Look guys, both these arguments are irrelevant as if someone is entitled to work in this country then they're entitled to social welfare also so every job is taking someone off the live register whether they be Irish or not.

Immigrants would besubject to the same rules 3-5 years contribution before any welfare entitlement tbh we should only have people coming in that have secured employment in advance of their arrival open door immigration is a farce and is encouraging economic migration.