Would you report a dole scammer?

Glenster

osarusan wrote: »

Part of the reason these are the causes in Irish society is because our social safety net catches those who would be there for purely financial reasons.

In a place like the USA, you could be two or 3 missed paychecks away from being homeless. In Ireland, you would apply for and get some aid.

Remove or reduce that safety net, and we will see financial reasons take its place on the list of causes.

Agreed. I think our priorities are the wrong way around in Ireland.

We don't help people with mental health issues, we just subsidize them which isolates them from society and hurts them long term.

And we have a growing number of people who have chosen not contributing to society as a way of life.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

mahoganygas

sashafierce wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There is no political appetite for that at the moment.
It's very difficult for a minister to cut welfare. The only practical way to reduce it is to hope that inflation outpaces it in the medium to long term.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

mahoganygas wrote:

I find that a bit of a cop out. I know people who suffer anxiety and health problems when they work. They get on with it. Life is not a picnic.

If their mental health problems are so severe, then they can be assessed for disability support. A well functioning welfare system should be able to provide adequate support for these people. I doubt you will find anybody here who would force disabled people into the workforce.

I don't think those people are disabled, I think they're sensible. Why work if irrespective you are paid? Why cause yourself undue anxiety just for more money and to assuage those who feel everyone should contribute to "society", whatever the hell that means to people who don't want to be part of it.

What about women who want to rear children? It's hard to find a job that will hire you if you're pregnant, or keep you if you require maternity leave. Should they be forced back into menial work because society has gotten so expensive to live in that both parents need to work now?

I'm hoping something will stop inflation before we bring back child labour here.

Glenster

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote: »

What about women who want to rear children? It's hard to find a job that will hire you if you're pregnant, or keep you if you require maternity leave. Should they be forced back into menial work because society has gotten so expensive to live in that both parents need to work now?

having kids should not be a passport to the dole for 18 years.

If it is the system is broken.

mahoganygas

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote: »

I don't think those people are disabled, I think they're sensible. Why work if irrespective you are paid? Why cause yourself undue anxiety just for more money and to assuage those who feel everyone should contribute to "society", whatever the hell that means to people who don't want to be part of it.

Please try to understand that general taxation pays for street lamps, schools, hospital, clean water, safe policing, electricity polls, the rule of law etc. If everyone decided not to contribute to "society" then there would be no society. Artists wouldn't have the time or freedom to pursue intellectual goals. They'd be wondering where their next meal was going to come from.

To be blunt, those people you are describing are selfish.

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote: »

What about women who want to rear children? It's hard to find a job that will hire you if you're pregnant, or keep you if you require maternity leave. Should they be forced back into menial work because society has gotten so expensive to live in that both parents need to work now?

This is a completely different issue. Women in high paying jobs or women who genuinely want to work face the same problems.

Widdershins

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote: »

I don't think those people are disabled, I think they're sensible. Why work if irrespective you are paid? Why cause yourself undue anxiety just for more money and to assuage those who feel everyone should contribute to "society", whatever the hell that means to people who don't want to be part of it.

What about women who want to rear children? It's hard to find a job that will hire you if you're pregnant, or keep you if you require maternity leave. Should they be forced back into menial work because society has gotten so expensive to live in that both parents need to work now?

I'm hoping something will stop inflation before we bring back child labour here.

Hmm. On one hand I believe in the importance of a parent raising their children but I also know women with depression, anxiety, fibromyalgia/m.e, supposed constant pain and incapacity yet they're having a baby every year. Supported by state benefits.

Glenster

I think we can all agree that the fairest and most logical thing to do with long term dole recipients who are able to work but don't is to put them on a raft and kick it out to sea. Exclude them from the society they refuse to contribute to.

Obviously we cant do that because of compassion.

But we cant do nothing because that's not fair to the people who pay their way.

My solution is for both sides to meet halfway. Let scroungers still use public services and the trappings of society (Hospitals, street lights, warm air coming from the vents of pubs, lack of wolf attacks) but stop giving them free money.

Glenster

Widdershins wrote: »

Hmm. On one hand I believe in the importance of a parent raising their children

I suppose, but blinking is important, it doesn't mean we pay people to do it.

Having kids is biological imperative. I don't see why people need to be paid for it.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

mahoganygas wrote:

To be blunt, those people you are describing are selfish.

What about people who opt out and live in communes and off the grid? F society, if society are the kind of people who hate travellers AND refugees and allow there to be homelessness and mental illness then they suck.

The roads are in disrepair, the hospitals are overcome, class sizes have become untenable, there is little to no tolerance for any alternative views and people are just generally miserable. The people who really need the system (disabled, elderly, chronically ill) are shafted by it.

The only people who really stand to benefit from the way it is set up are the rich. Your insistence on working and your adherence to this way of living because you think it's the only way that works - that's the real problem. You're just about scraping by, or maybe you're doing quite well, but it should matter to you more that an 80 year-old woman I care for only gets 16 hours respite a week as she looks after her totally immobile 60 year-old daughter with Cystic Fibrosis.

Glenster wrote:

Having kids is biological imperative. I don't see why people need to be paid for it.

Because having children is how society is perpetuated. It's not an entitlement, the system should be set up to facilitate the next generation and give them every opportunity. We're after regressing about ten decades since the government has brainwashed us into thinking having children should be the privilege of the rich and the misfortune of the ill-educated.

The whole system is set up to anally destroy the poor and middle classes over and over. Read some Adam Smith. Watch some Noam Chomsky. Don't feel bad about not working, don't resent others for not doing it. Things wouldn't be any better even if unemployment was completely eradicated. If you don't believe me, that's fine too.

SEPT 23 1989

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote: »

What about people who opt out and live in communes and off the grid? F society, if society are the kind of people who hate travellers AND refugees and allow there to be homelessness and mental illness then they suck.

The roads are in disrepair, the hospitals are overcome, class sizes have become untenable, there is little to no tolerance for any alternative views and people are just generally miserable. The people who really need the system (disabled, elderly, chronically ill) are shafted by it.

The only people who really stand to benefit from the way it is set up are the rich. Your insistence on working and your adherence to this way of living because you think it's the only way that works - that's the real problem. You're just about scraping by, or maybe you're doing quite well, but it should matter to you more that an 80 year-old woman I care for only gets 16 hours respite a week as she looks after her totally immobile 60 year-old daughter with Cystic Fibrosis.


Because having children is how society is perpetuated. It's not an entitlement, the system should be set up to facilitate the next generation and give them every opportunity. We're after regressing about ten decades since the government has brainwashed us into thinking having children should be the privilege of the rich and the misfortune of the ill-educated.

The whole system is set up to anally destroy the poor and middle classes over and over. Read some Adam Smith. Watch some Noam Chomsky. Don't feel bad about not working, don't resent others for not doing it. Things wouldn't be any better even if unemployment was completely eradicated. If you don't believe me, that's fine too.

That's a wonderful piece of clarity

Well done Sir

mahoganygas

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote:

What about people who opt out and live in communes and off the grid?

What if everybody chose this selfish way of life? Sounds a bit like Mad Max.

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote:

F society, if society are the kind of people who hate travellers AND refugees and allow there to be homelessness and mental illness then they suck.

I don't hate travellers or refugees. I still believe in society. So do most if not everybody I know.

If nobody paid tax, as you suggest, do you think homelessness & mental illness would get better or worse?

Genuine question.

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote:

The roads are in disrepair, the hospitals are overcome, class sizes have become untenable, there is little to no tolerance for any alternative views and people are just generally miserable.

If nobody paid tax (as you are suggesting) then the roads wouldn't exist, hospitals wouldn't exist, and schools wouldn't exist. At least now they are only in disrepair, overcome and untenable. Which would you prefer?

Malaysia Fat Fern wrote:

We're after regressing about ten decades since the government has brainwashed us into thinking having children should be the privilege of the rich and the misfortune of the ill-educated.

How many decades do you think we would regress in your utopia before "society" would benefit?

Again, genuine question.

Some people could theoretically live this lifestyle you are advocating. But what would happen if everybody wanted it?

That's why I think it's selfish.

Widdershins

mahoganygas wrote: »

What if everybody chose this selfish way of life? Sounds a bit like Mad Max.



I don't hate travellers or refugees. I still believe in society. So do most if not everybody I know.

If nobody paid tax, as you suggest, do you think homelessness & mental illness would get better or worse?

Genuine question.



If nobody paid tax (as you are suggesting) then the roads wouldn't exist, hospitals wouldn't exist, and schools wouldn't exist. At least now they are only in disrepair, overcome and untenable. Which would you prefer?




How many decades do you think we would regress in your utopia before "society" would benefit?

Again, genuine question.

Some people could theoretically live this lifestyle you are advocating. But what would happen if everybody wanted it?

That's why I think it's selfish.

Nothing wrong with that lifestyle as long as others aren't expected to pay for it. If you want to opt out of the system you have to opt out of all of it, including handouts from the state.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Widdershins wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that lifestyle as long as others aren't expected to pay for it. If you want to opt out of the system you have to opt out of all of it, including handouts from the state.

Exactly this.

snubbleste

Details of alleged DSP fraudsters are in logs of tip-offs to the DSP's anti-fraud phone line.
2015 - 16,456 allegations of welfare fraud made - 45 moans per day!
Ytd October 2016 - 15,541 allegations
The massive increase in reports to social welfare officials has seen the taxpayer claw back €21m in the last 2 years alone.

"Caller alleges that above named is working and claiming a social welfare payment.
He also has land and horses, he currently has a horse in training for racing. He is a self-employed builder and does all his work for cash. He undercuts the caller on all jobs."

"I reported this yesterday but forgot to state that she is a lone parent and is running a gym at the back of the house.
She charges €9 per person per group and €20 for personal training.
She makes at least €100 per day and her day starts at 9.30am and classes go on so as to suit her clients until 9pm some nights.
She has a Facebook page to make appointments,"

B.A._Baracus

Geez 15,000 reports so far this year?
I remember reading before (in 2013 I think) where it was thousands of reports too but only a few hundred genuine cases of social welfare fraud.

I still think that's mad. Has to be so many people are reporting with no evidence someone is scamming at all.

steddyeddy

15k a@#holes with nothing better to do.

Oliver Beetroot

steddyeddy wrote: »

15k a@#holes with nothing better to do.

Yeah, because stealing from the taxpayer is something we should all aspire to.

annascott

My neighbour was laughing about them having a medical card. Her husband has a six figure salary. I felt annoyed by it and told her she should be ashamed. I have less respect for them but would not report them though, bad karma etc

steddyeddy

Oliver Beetroot wrote: »

Yeah, because stealing from the taxpayer is something we should all aspire to.

Well yeah seeing as our TDs do it. One lives on an island ffs.

jackofalltrades

steddyeddy wrote: »

15k a@#holes with nothing better to do.

Seems like you're trolling for a response.
You do realise that some of those reports will lead to savings which could be used to help out genuine cases?

Well yeah seeing as our TDs do it. One lives on an island ffs.

This has to be one of the weakest arguments going.
TD's behaviour doesn't excuse others from committing fraud.

steddyeddy

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Seems like you're trolling for a response.
You do realise that some of those reports will lead to savings which could be used to help out genuine cases?

This has to be one of the weakest arguments going.
TD's behaviour doesn't excuse others from committing fraud.

I actually make enough money and enough purpose in life to not act in such a base manner towards my neighbours. Most of the reports were idle gossip.

B.A._Baracus

Oliver Beetroot wrote: »

Yeah, because stealing from the taxpayer is something we should all aspire to.

Maybe it's just me but I hate the thought of people reporting on others based on no information. I mean 15,000 reports. How many are based on something real.

It would be like me ringing up the social welfare on one of my neighbours. Not knowing if he is on the dole or not :pac:

Widdershins

steddyeddy wrote: »

I actually make enough money and enough purpose in life to not act in such a base manner towards my neighbours. Most of the reports were idle gossip.

I make peanuts and have lost my way in life and I wouldn't do it either. (Well, I don't think I would..)

BalcombeSt4

No I would not, I view them as socialists re-distributing the wealth.

mahoganygas

BalcombeSt4 wrote:

No I would not, I view them as socialists re-distributing the wealth.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

When does re-distributing wealth (into your own pocket) stop being socialism and start being theft?

Oliver Beetroot

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well yeah seeing as our TDs do it. One lives on an island ffs.

So that excuses everything. Just because Mick 'Scarecrow' Wallace misappropriated his employees pension contributions and unlawfully withheld VAT from property sales doesn't give the rest of us a free pass.

TerrorFirmer

annascott wrote: »

My neighbour was laughing about them having a medical card. Her husband has a six figure salary. I felt annoyed by it and told her she should be ashamed. I have less respect for them but would not report them though, bad karma etc

Some people have automatic entitlements to medical cards, and there are others ways to get them as well other than simple means testing.

You don't know people's circumstances. A six figure salary isn't the full story.

steddyeddy

mahoganygas wrote: »

Hahahahahahahahaha.

When does re-distributing wealth (into your own pocket) stop being socialism and start being theft?

It's hard to tell in this country with socialists like Bertie.

Stonedpilot

Joshua J wrote: »

Your average high ranking Civil servant would spend more on lunch putting it through expenses than Jimmy getting a few euro for a nixxer.

+1. Very good point, so many will whinge about Joe Soap getting an extra €50 or a €100 and whinge 'my taxes this and my taxes that' and never focus on the big fish cleaning out the country of hundreds of thousands left right and center.

Talk about tunnel vision.

steddyeddy

Stonedpilot wrote: »

+1. Very good point, so many will whinge about Joe Soap getting an extra €50 or a €100 and whinge 'my taxes this and my taxes that' and never focus on the big fish cleaning out the country of hundreds of thousands left right and center.

Talk about tunnel vision.

Idiots with a grudge. Before my PhD I worked in a HSE lab. Apart from the civil servants hiring their own nieces and nephews at the taxpayers expense there was massive waste. Some civil servants had job descriptions that I struggled to figure out. One guy seemed to make the tea every day.

Fr_Dougal

steddyeddy wrote: »

15k a@#holes with nothing better to do.

Who do you expect to pay for the CF drug in the other thread?

steddyeddy

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Who do you expect to pay for the CF drug in the other thread?

A reduction in the waste in the HSE.

Fr_Dougal

steddyeddy wrote: »

A reduction in the waste in the HSE.

And who funds the HSE?

Not having a go at you, but we all have our part to play in society. Why should some workers pay tax and others not?

steddyeddy

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

And who funds the HSE?

Not having a go at you, but we all have our part to play in society. Why should some workers pay tax and others not?

We fund the HSE. I'm not saying workers shouldn't pay tax?

pilly

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Some people have automatic entitlements to medical cards, and there are others ways to get them as well other than simple means testing.

You don't know people's circumstances. A six figure salary isn't the full story.

Exactly, some people have them because they've a long term serious illness and if they have then fair play to them. They need it.