Wiring new house for future Nest install

TheTubes

We have bought a house that is part of a new estate, it's in the process of being built (first fix).
There is some flexibility (extra charge) in terms of the spec that you put in the house.
I'm meeting the electrician next week to go through the extra stuff I want to add, lots of cat6, satellite cables, power points, etc.

One of the things I spoke to him about was installing Nest instead of the digital timer they put in by default, he wasn't very positive and I felt like he was trying to fob me off saying it could be installed later easily, etc.

The house has 2 heating zones and a hot water switch, all from the gas boiler.
So I believe I will need 2 Nests, that's fine.

I'm thinking about having him focusing on getting the networking etc right and letting Electric Ireland do the install later, it might be easier (possibly cheaper too).

If I go with the default digital programmer I'm thinking I should get it put in the utility, out of the way. Can it be un wired later without affecting the nest functionality (it wont need to be left in an on position like a light switch that is being controlled by Hue for example) ?

I believe EI install with the stand, I'd like to have them wired on the wall.
I know the spec says they need 12v from the Heat Link, it can be 12v from anywhere though, right?
Would it be difficult for an electrician to leave a 12v wire behind a blank plate next to where i have light switches?

Is there anything else I should consider putting in to facilitate the nest install now, without actually doing it.

Odd, i know

Stoner

Money saving option

I'd you are going for a smart timer. Get him to put in APT cheap mechanical timers , digital ones are expensive. Make sure you are getting a saving first

I'd say that he doesn't want to commission or stand over NESTs even if he did understand them. IMO it's a reasonable position

Ask to have neutrals wired to the light switches so that you have 220v at the switches to power inline dimmer.

Hue is very expensive, it's great but you can use it sparingly use cheaper dimmable lamps and pop inline dimmers into light switches.

Lots of good home auto options here that don't work because we don't have permanent 220v at switches or at the lights . The Brits wire things slightly differently to us.

drunkmonkey

Electric Ireland and fitting them for me next week, same set up 2 zones and hot water. Only powered by oil not gas.

Costing 99 for the first one to control downstairs and hot water and 270 for the second one to control upstairs.
There the 3rd gen nests and the price includes instillation.
Got some cash back on my bills and discount so it's not really costing me anything the discounts and cash back more than covered the costs of the nests.

Just installed a new Jule hot water cylinder that can do solar and oil as haven't added solar yet I'm using the 2 coils to heat water at the moment, pressurised the water system with a pump as adding a rain shower upstairs and getting rid of one of the t90's downstairs and changing it to power shower as well. . I'm in the middle of a loft conversion so it's a complete new zone upstairs.

Electrican wasn't so hot on going smart that's why I said I'd get onto Electric Ireland with there current offer. Was going to cost me anyway by the time the Electrican had installed everything and dumb controls and thermostats.

whiterebel

TheTubes wrote: »

We have bought a house that is part of a new estate, it's in the process of being built (first fix).
There is some flexibility (extra charge) in terms of the spec that you put in the house.
I'm meeting the electrician next week to go through the extra stuff I want to add, lots of cat6, satellite cables, power points, etc.

One of the things I spoke to him about was installing Nest instead of the digital timer they put in by default, he wasn't very positive and I felt like he was trying to fob me off saying it could be installed later easily, etc.

The house has 2 heating zones and a hot water switch, all from the gas boiler.
So I believe I will need 2 Nests, that's fine.

I'm thinking about having him focusing on getting the networking etc right and letting Electric Ireland do the install later, it might be easier (possibly cheaper too).

If I go with the default digital programmer I'm thinking I should get it put in the utility, out of the way. Can it be un wired later without affecting the nest functionality (it wont need to be left in an on position like a light switch that is being controlled by Hue for example) ?

I believe EI install with the stand, I'd like to have them wired on the wall.
I know the spec says they need 12v from the Heat Link, it can be 12v from anywhere though, right?
Would it be difficult for an electrician to leave a 12v wire behind a blank plate next to where i have light switches?

Is there anything else I should consider putting in to facilitate the nest install now, without actually doing it.

Odd, i know

He is probably right. I had a Hortsmann time clock attached to the boiler and 3 motorized valves - upstairs, downstairs and hot water. No thermostats.
Installer for Electric Ireland called this morning, in and out 90 minutes. Really very easy to do for these guys.
He had one Nest with a stand, I had bought an additional nest and two stands, not realising EI would install a second as well. It was too late by the time I had seen Drunkmonkey's posts about it.
Anyhooo, I would definitely recommend the stands - You can move them around until you figure the optimum position for it, as long as they are close to a socket. If you put them on the wall, they need to be near a socket and properly fixed. It will probably be trial and error finding out the optimum position in a new house.

They are brilliant, though, a real quality feel to the Nest.

drunkmonkey

I've nothing really wired up yet as in the zone valves etc, somebody might be able to tell me do I need to get any of this sorted before the EI guy arrives or just let him wire it all.
The 3rd zone isn't operational yet, its Plummed and all just the rads aren't put in and won't be by the time he comes, I'm assuming he can just tell that zone not to operate until it's ready.






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TheTubes

whiterebel wrote: »

Anyhooo, I would definitely recommend the stands - You can move them around until you figure the optimum position for it, as long as they are close to a socket. If you put them on the wall, they need to be near a socket and properly fixed. It will probably be trial and error finding out the optimum position in a new house.

Its the stands that Id like to avoid ideally, the thought of another valuable socket taken up by something that could be hard wired gives me an uneasy feeling
Really my question is can the electrician leave a 12v supply next to the light switch so that i can root it out when i want to wire up the nest, or have the EI guy do it.

I guess it's not a simple as "theres a light switch, run a wire and you have 12v" !!

whiterebel

TheTubes wrote: »

Its the stands that Id like to avoid ideally, the thought of another valuable socket taken up by something that could be hard wired gives me an uneasy feeling
Really my question is can the electrician leave a 12v supply next to the light switch so that i can root it out when i want to wire up the nest, or have the EI guy do it.

I guess it's not a simple as "theres a light switch, run a wire and you have 12v" !!

I may be wrong here, but I think you have to put the Thermostat within 2 feet of a socket - they will plug it into that, not hardwire it into a socket.

drunkmonkey

Thermostat can go in the hot press though,no? Do I need to drop an internet cable down to it or is it just wifi. Put the controllers one upstarts and the other downstairs.

whiterebel

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Thermostat can go in the hot press though,no? Do I need to drop an internet cable down to it or is it just wifi. Put the controllers one upstarts and the other downstairs.

Thermostat goes in to a room, shouldn't it? Wouldn't the hot press be too warm for it?

TheTubes

whiterebel wrote: »

I may be wrong here, but I think you have to put the Thermostat within 2 feet of a socket - they will plug it into that, not hardwire it into a socket.

If you buy the Nest without the stand you power it from a 12v that runs from the heat link.
I won't have a heat link setup so i'd like to find out if the electrician can run a 12v to a point in the wall where I'll put the thermostat later.
I'll check w him Monday i guess.

whiterebel wrote:

Thermostat goes in to a room, shouldn't it? Wouldn't the hot press be too warm for it?

Agreed, the heat link probably goes to a boiler room but the thermostat needs to be in a room to determine the ambient temp and decide if it should turn heating on or off. * as far as i know.

whiterebel

TheTubes wrote: »

If you buy the Nest without the stand you power it from a 12v that runs from the heat link.
I won't have a heat link setup so i'd like to find out if the electrician can run a 12v to a point in the wall where I'll put the thermostat later.
I'll check w him Monday i guess.

Maybe we're at cross purposes here, but from what I can see, each thermostat is powered independently with a USB lead and plug adaptor at the end of the lead. Installer told me that if there was no stand, he puts thermostat on a wall in close proximity to a socket, to plug it in.
The Heat link is right beside the boiler, wired directly into the mains there. The thermostats are 30-50 feet away from the heat link.

Apologies if I've got something wrong here.

drunkmonkey

Right so the heat link in the hot press (do I need to run an ethernet cable to that?)

ted1

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Thermostat can go in the hot press though,no? Do I need to drop an internet cable down to it or is it just wifi. Put the controllers one upstarts and the other downstairs.

Defeats the whole purpose of it.

drunkmonkey

ted1 wrote: »

Defeats the whole purpose of it.

I was calling the heat link the thermostat by mistake.

TheTubes

whiterebel wrote: »

Maybe we're at cross purposes here, but from what I can see, each thermostat is powered independently with a USB lead and plug adaptor at the end of the lead. Installer told me that if there was no stand, he puts thermostat on a wall in close proximity to a socket, to plug it in.
The Heat link is right beside the boiler, wired directly into the mains there. The thermostats are 30-50 feet away from the heat link.

Apologies if I've got something wrong here.

The USB lead & stand are an optional extra. Out of the box you power the thermostat from the heat link. Heat link gets wired to mains, 12v run off it to wherever you want to put the nest thermostat.
I didn't think you could power it via socket/usb without the stand.
I'd like to avoid the stand, just wire it to the 12v in the wall, no socket needed.
I just dont have the heatlink setup so i was wondering if an electrician can put a 12v supply to a random spot on the wall or if he is going to be pushing back on that idea, it's grand though. I'll check with him monday.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Right so the heat link in the hot press (do I need to run an ethernet cable to that?)

No, it connects to the Nest thermostat via wifi

NyOmnishambles

TheTubes wrote: »

so i was wondering if an electrician can put a 12v supply to a random spot on the wall or if he is going to be pushing back on that idea, it's grand though. I'll check with him monday.

Should be no issue with that
All my plumbing and Electrics were done first and a few weeks later the Nest was put in, I had gotten a cable put into a spot in the hallway to be wired up to the Nest and there was no issues

drunkmonkey

Right so you need a power point to each nest, can it be wired directly or has to be plugged in, has it batteries?

Wossack

they have a battery built in, but its more of a temporary backup to the wired connection afaik