DCM 2016 Graduates: Keep On Running

kabuxa

On a little 'sour' note Malaga marathon was cancelled this morning due to flooding and red alert. Imagine!
Sure it is always good weather in the south! ;0/

The Black Oil

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Have a read of the Notes and the plan most relevant to you and post here with any questions.

Thank to both of ye for this.

Base plan first. Should I throw my DCM time into the calculator or the Jingle Bells, or a better 5k time from earlier in the year? Or if there's a particular time I want to aim for (nothing mental!), should I use that?

What does MP stand for?

60 min progression (Easy to MP)

What does progression mean, you gradually move from easy to MP across the 60 minutes? What's a stride (Saturday in the base plan)?

Enough questions?

kin9pin

Plugged my Jingle Bells time into that calculator and apparently I should be able to do the marathon in 3:29:34 :eek:
But....I do like the training paces based on that time when plugged into the intermediate marathon plan. The plan seems to follow the same principle as HH Intermediate 2, except it adds more speed work on the Wednesday.

I'm slightly confused now in terms of training for London and would love some advice. My head is spinning with all the plans.

• I started out looking at the Asics sub-4 plan..........
• Then had a look at the MyAsics personal plan (didn't really like that as I felt it lacked mileage)..............
• Then bought Advanced Marathoning (reading it at the moment), thinking of doing the P&D55 18 week plan, but I'm concerned that's too advanced for me...........
• Then I decided on the Hal Higdon Intermediate 2 as I like the idea of running the Sunday LSR's on tired legs after the Saturday pace runs..........
• Now I'm thinking of the graduate intermediate plan.

Any help appreciated I ran DCM in 4:20 after fading badly from mile 16-17. Really looking for something that can both build on my endurance AND give me the confidence to push a little more when it gets tough (looking back, I think I was so worried about not finishing I went straight to plan C as soon as it got harder).

kin9pin

kin9pin wrote: »

Plugged my Jingle Bells time into that calculator and apparently I should be able to do the marathon in 3:29:34 :eek:
But....I do like the training paces based on that time when plugged into the intermediate marathon plan. The plan seems to follow the same principle as HH Intermediate 2, except it adds more speed work on the Wednesday.

I'm slightly confused now in terms of training for London and would love some advice. My head is spinning with all the plans.

• I started out looking at the Asics sub-4 plan..........
• Then had a look at the MyAsics personal plan (didn't really like that as I felt it lacked mileage)..............
• Then bought Advanced Marathoning (reading it at the moment), thinking of doing the P&D55 18 week plan, but I'm concerned that's too advanced for me...........
• Then I decided on the Hal Higdon Intermediate 2 as I like the idea of running the Sunday LSR's on tired legs after the Saturday pace runs..........
• Now I'm thinking of the graduate intermediate plan.

Any help appreciated I ran DCM in 4:20 after fading badly from mile 16-17. Really looking for something that can both build on my endurance AND give me the confidence to push a little more when it gets tough (looking back, I think I was so worried about not finishing I went straight to plan C as soon as it got harder).

Oh, Base Phase plus Intermediate, starting tomorrow, takes me exactly to London on 23rd April Thanks so much for putting this together.

Pomplamousse

Jingle bells 5k

I haven't done much running since DCM so I wasn't expecting too much from this race but overall it went relatively ok. I wasn't expecting a PB and I missed out on one by over 20 seconds but I think I got my second best 5k time so I'm not too far off. Did you all get an email or text message with your official result? I haven't received anything and when I try google the results nothing is coming up for me, I'm possibly being a total eejit though.

My very vague race plan was to use the first km as my slowest km to ease into things and then speed up as best I could and hope for the best. The first km was indeed my slowest but I didn't manage to pick up the pace by as much as I'd hoped. I started to get a stitch after about 500m and it lasted the entire rest of the race. This seems to be a regular occurrence for me lately (I had a stitch for a lot of DCM even though I wasn't exactly going fast, although thankfully it wasn't as bad as today's one) and I don't know what to do about it, I've tried everything I can think of

Anyway, I managed to very gradually up my pace throughout the race and enjoyed it somewhat. I had taken one of those jingly bells they were handing out before the race and attached it to one of my race pins; started to regret that after about 1km as the jingling noise started to get really annoying:o There was one weird part of the race, possibly close to the last km, where I was running along the very edge of the road and was about to overtake a girl running to my right. She glanced over & then swerved in front of me, completely blocking my path. Maybe I'd annoyed her with my jingling noises :P My running rage made an appearance and I refused to stay behind her so I sped up and went around her. I don't think she liked this as she then sped up and passed me out. So I sped up again and passed her out again and tried to maintain that pace until the end. Thankfully I didn't see her again. So thanks random running girl for helping me get a better time than I was on track to get!!

My km splits were 4:53, 4:45, 4:42, 4:35 and 4:15. Garmin time was 23:13.

Thought I was gonna vomit as soon as I stopped at the finishline but that feeling passed pretty quickly. Met bf at the finishline, who had run it in a brilliant time of under 21 mins despite only getting back into running recently after many years off (grrrr so unfair:(:p).
It was nice to randomly bump into Maximus and A Neurotic afterwards.

Looking forward to now starting the graduate plan and hopefully will see some new PBs along the way!

nop98

Well done Pompla - you did manage to speed up despite the discomfort Pity we missed you at the finishline.

Race-results are here:
http://www.championchipireland.com/results/index.php

Pomplamousse

nop98 wrote: »

Well done Pompla - you did manage to speed up despite the discomfort Pity we missed you at the finishline.

Race-results are here:
http://www.championchipireland.com/results/index.php

Thanks a mill for the link nop. It is a pity but well done on your pb!

My garmin was spot on with my chip time!

Wubble Wubble

Great work done by so many Graduates on Saturday. Sorry I missed most of you. The mentors led by example

paddydriver

Well done all on the 5k on Sat.. some good great times coming through!

paddydriver

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Massive thanks are due to Myles Splitz for this plan which has served - and continues to serve - many graduates so well.

Edit: Plan now linked from 1st post. Thanks, TFBubendorfer.

Hi Bungy Girl, Thanks for above.. Can I ask how we should use this plan? Is it to aim to take our running exploits to the next level or is it a general training plan?

My running at the moment is fairly aimless in that I am just going out and doing miles at all sorts of random paces - all generally faster than PMP. Would be great to get some steering on how best to maintain the miles and build on DCM and work on bringing the shorter distance times down - was Sorry to miss Sat 5k but will aim to get some more Park Run's in soon and see what times can be posted.

Thanks for all the help!

spaceylou

I'll be doing a proper race report on my log but a shortened version for here goes something like this:

Prep - not a lot, millage has been a lot lower since DCM, no speed work to speak of (with the except of some strides during the week), stayed up late watching the toy show Friday night. On the plus side, I did make sure to drink plenty of fluids on Thursday and Friday and resisted the urge to turn the toy show into a drinking game.

Race Morning - up, porridge, stretchy routine from physio, pack stuff in bag forgetting to bring any food whatsoever. Drive across, parked in Papal Cross carpark by 9:45. Wearing several layers start warm-up with a walk to the porta-loos and to check out the finish. Warm-up proper 2k very very easy for which my tummy is grumbling so much you'd swear I hadn't eaten in a week and I realise I have no banana like I'd normally eat before a race, some drills, some stretches while queuing for the loo again, take off all the layer and give to OH, few strides on way to start line. Spot the muppet just ahead, know he is faster but decide to try and not loose sight of him and we are off...

The Race
Slow enough start, some congestion, like why oh why do people start so far up when there are really clear signs for where the planned times should line up! Found this km tough but kept trying to reassure my self that it was the most 'uphill' km of the course and I was probably not 100 per cent warmed up after taking off all the layers. Decided I'd just hang on in there and see how I managed. Turned at roundabout, someone had collapsed and civil defence were trying to get across...hope they were okay. Decided I didn't feel so bad after all, I mean I was still upright. Continued to suffer throughout this k and third, tummy felt not 100 per cent and not sure why. Also had a dull, leaden kind of feeling - like lack of energy. Would have loved to quit but then the 3k mark appeared and I figured shortest way back to car was to keep going. Final 2k were not as bad, or rather they hurt, especially the final k but that was because I was pushing it. Crossed the line and had to drape myself over the barrier for a few minutes to catch my breath. Also was very very happy with the jellies I got at the finish line.

Worked my way through the finish shoot to claim my mug (very nice) and bumped into a gaggle of boardsies - nop; the muppet; bungygirl; annie get your run; the black oil; lauraac and one or two others I can't remember now, but lovely to have the chats and see everyone.

All in all, happy with my finish time, a PB of 19 sec but feel with a bit more sharpening and better prep could go faster again - something for 2017.

Splits: 5:30; 5:19; 5:17; 5:19; 4:50
Chip Time: 26:15 (previous pb 26:34, Apr 16 @ Clane)

spaceylou

OH and did anyone else see the person who took a short cut across the grass at the start of upp glen road? First I thought they were making a bee line for the ambulance that was parked there but then realised they were just taking a short cut. There were some kids (well teenagers) just in front of me that exchanged a look of 'wft' which kinda summed it up perfectly. :rolleyes:

The Muppet

My fridge is complete again with a print out of the 2016 graduate plan. I'm sorted for the next 20 weeks

6 weeks base building and the 14 weeks of the 5k/10k plan.

Really looking forward to getting some structure back .

Will be running 5 days , rest Monday and Friday . One pilates class and s&c as well.

That will get me up to marathon training for 2017 nicely.


One question do we need to do the basé building coming off the marathon training. It was not in previous years plans as far as I can remember.

Bungy Girl

The Black Oil wrote: »

Thank to both of ye for this.

Base plan first. Should I throw my DCM time into the calculator or the Jingle Bells, or a better 5k time from earlier in the year? Or if there's a particular time I want to aim for (nothing mental!), should I use that?

What does MP stand for?

What does progression mean, you gradually move from easy to MP across the 60 minutes? What's a stride (Saturday in the base plan)?

Enough questions?

I would put your most recent race time (JB) into the calculator as that is where you are now.

MP stands for marathon pace

Yes, progression means you start at easy pace and work gradually up through the paces towards MP. Allow 5-10 mins at the end for a cool down.

I wrote an explanation of strides a couple of pages back (post #183), along with the drills video and some other questions that had been asked. Let me know if you need more info.

kin9pin wrote: »

Plugged my Jingle Bells time into that calculator and apparently I should be able to do the marathon in 3:29:34 :eek:
But....I do like the training paces based on that time when plugged into the intermediate marathon plan. The plan seems to follow the same principle as HH Intermediate 2, except it adds more speed work on the Wednesday.

I'm slightly confused now in terms of training for London and would love some advice. My head is spinning with all the plans.

• I started out looking at the Asics sub-4 plan..........
• Then had a look at the MyAsics personal plan (didn't really like that as I felt it lacked mileage)..............
• Then bought Advanced Marathoning (reading it at the moment), thinking of doing the P&D55 18 week plan, but I'm concerned that's too advanced for me...........
• Then I decided on the Hal Higdon Intermediate 2 as I like the idea of running the Sunday LSR's on tired legs after the Saturday pace runs..........
• Now I'm thinking of the graduate intermediate plan.

Any help appreciated I ran DCM in 4:20 after fading badly from mile 16-17. Really looking for something that can both build on my endurance AND give me the confidence to push a little more when it gets tough (looking back, I think I was so worried about not finishing I went straight to plan C as soon as it got harder).

kin9pin wrote: »

Oh, Base Phase plus Intermediate, starting tomorrow, takes me exactly to London on 23rd April Thanks so much for putting this together.

Kin9pin I think you've just answered your own question !

The calculator is predicting that marathon time for you based on your potential i.e. you have to train appropriately to achieve the time that you are, potentially, based on your 5K time, capable of. The discrepancy between the two just shows a lack of endurance. You will improve your endurance by training at the appropriate paces and building your miles sensibly.

paddydriver wrote: »

Hi Bungy Girl, Thanks for above.. Can I ask how we should use this plan? Is it to aim to take our running exploits to the next level or is it a general training plan?

My running at the moment is fairly aimless in that I am just going out and doing miles at all sorts of random paces - all generally faster than PMP. Would be great to get some steering on how best to maintain the miles and build on DCM and work on bringing the shorter distance times down - was Sorry to miss Sat 5k but will aim to get some more Park Run's in soon and see what times can be posted.

Thanks for all the help!

There are several plans to choose from so if your focus is on the shorter distances go with the 5-10K plan. Use the running calculator linked in the Notes on the spreadsheet to determine your paces. That will take care of the running at random paces. It sounds like you're running waaaay too fast and that generally does not end well. Following a plan will give you focus, help to establish consistency with your running, and will progress you to the next level in a measured way.

The Muppet wrote: »

My fridge is complete again with a print out of the 2016 graduate plan. I'm sorted for the next 20 weeks

6 weeks base building and the 14 weeks of the 5k/10k plan.

Really looking forward to getting some structure back .

Will be running 5 days , rest Monday and Friday . One pilates class and s&c as well.

That will get me up to marathon training for 2017 nicely.


One question do we need to do the basé building coming off the marathon training. It was not in previous years plans as far as I can remember.

The idea of the base building is to ensure you have the foundation for the shorter, sharper work you will do in the plan. It's also to ensure you have the miles in the legs and the endurance that comes with that. It's never a good idea to work on adding mileage and speed at the same time so laying a good foundation will never be a waste of time.

Myles Splits base plan brings you up to a minimum of 6 hours running in week 6 so I would infer from that, that if you're already there in terms of time on your feet then you could skip or reduce the base building, otherwise I would recommend that you include it.

Hope that answers your queries so far. I haven't forgotten about the S&C post, just up to eyeballs at the minute so bear with me.

Bungy Girl

Pomplamousse wrote: »

I started to get a stitch after about 500m and it lasted the entire rest of the race. This seems to be a regular occurrence for me lately (I had a stitch for a lot of DCM even though I wasn't exactly going fast, although thankfully it wasn't as bad as today's one) and I don't know what to do about it, I've tried everything I can think of

Hi Pomplamousse, well done at JB and sorry not to have met you. Re the stitches, if you've tried all the obvious (timing and types of food/drink, breathing patterns, slowing down) the only other couple of things that might help is to consider your running posture (a relaxed, upright upper body stance allows for better breathing) and improving core strength (sometimes weak abdominal muscles can cause stitch type pain during running). A strong core will benefit your running regardless.

Pomplamousse wrote: »

So thanks random running girl for helping me get a better time than I was on track to get!!

Got to love those battles with random runners, especially when you end up getting more out of yourself than you would have otherwise .

Pomplamousse

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Hi Pomplamousse, well done at JB and sorry not to have met you. Re the stitches, if you've tried all the obvious (timing and types of food/drink, breathing patterns, slowing down) the only other couple of things that might help is to consider your running posture (a relaxed, upright upper body stance allows for better breathing) and improving core strength (sometimes week abdominal muscles can cause stitch type pain during running). A strong core will benefit your running regardless.

Hmm I've tried all those things you mention but I hadn't thought about my posture and core. Must get back into the pilates so, thanks for the tips:)

Bungy Girl

Pomplamousse wrote: »

Hmm I've tried all those things you mention but I hadn't thought about my posture and core. Must get back into the pilates so, thanks for the tips:)

:o Of course that should be weak abdominal rather than week abdominal :o

Murph_D

Wow - lots of good stuff in this thread. Super advice, detailed plans from Myles, day-by-day schedules for 20+ weeks, yiz are well looked after.

Advice based on my own bitter experience (injured training for second marathon) is, be ambitious but realistic with goal times, train well, which means don't skimp on the recovery. When the plan says easy or very easy, there's a reason, and that's what you need to be be doing. It's natural to feel a bit invincible after a successful first marathon and a few more good shorter races as you benefit from the new-found endurance - but your body is still adapting and it's easy to stretch the aul rubber band a bit too far and find yourself sidelined just when you were getting into your stride.

Best of luck for the next phase!

hot buttered scones

I might have a go off the 10k-HM plan after a few weeks of Base building. I followed the 2015 graduate thread and the PBs just rolled in.

The Black Oil

Right, have made a 'post DCM', folder on my PC, with the spreadsheet and another file with a few notes/definitions//things to think about. Bit hectic this week with work, so will not jump into the base plan just yet.

Bungy Girl wrote: »

The idea of the base building is to ensure you have the foundation for the shorter, sharper work you will do in the plan. It's also to ensure you have the miles in the legs and the endurance that comes with that. It's never a good idea to work on adding mileage and speed at the same time so laying a good foundation will never be a waste of time.

This is probably a fridge magnet in itself.

aceygray

Really enjoyed the JB on saturday. I finished in 22.20, 20 seconds off my pb. I'm really happy with that. I was really impressed with the amount of junior runners doing it. Not so impressed that I couldn't even keep up with some of them Didn't see any other grads there, but glad you all seem to have had good races.

Had my work Christmas party on Saturday night, and still managed an hour LSR on Sunday.

Maximus Alexander

I'm really liking the look of the plans Myles has put together for us. If you're reading this Myles, thanks!

Tough decision though. I'm starting with the base phase but I can't decide what I want to do next. Focus on speed for a while and get some 5-10k PBs, or do a spring marathon? Arrg!

tailgunner

You picked up a huge 5k PB at the weekend, and have unfinished business with the marathon. I know what I'd be doing!

spaceylou

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I'm really liking the look of the plans Myles has put together for us. If you're reading this Myles, thanks!

Tough decision though. I'm starting with the base phase but I can't decide what I want to do next. Focus on speed for a while and get some 5-10k PBs, or do a spring marathon? Arrg!

On the plus side doing the base phase gives you a few weeks to mull it over and decide

Maximus Alexander

That intermediate marathon plan does look like a lot of horrifying fun...

If I start the base phase this week, followed by the intermediate plan, it ends on 23rd of April. Which happens to be the day of Connemarathon...

robinwing

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That intermediate marathon plan does look like a lot of horrifying fun...

If I start the base phase this week, followed by the intermediate plan, it ends on 23rd of April. Which happens to be the day of Connemarathon...

23rd April is also the date of the 2017 London Marathon

The Muppet

Was planning to start the base building today but my hip is really bothering me today, I though it was settling down as it was fine Saturday and Sunday but obviously not .:mad: I'm not a good patient, typical male.

Maximus Alexander

robinwing wrote: »

23rd April is also the date of the 2017 London Marathon

I don't have an entry though.

kabuxa

Maximus Alexander wrote:

I don't have an entry though.

We will find something else ;0)))

kin9pin

7 mile easy run home from work tonight took me to 1000 miles for the year Never thought I'd be able to say that.