How high will the rental rates go ?

beauf

Graham wrote: »

beauf wrote: »

Yes you've looked at one relatively minor tax without any context to the bigger issues.

That is the issue, it's a relatively minor tax. There's currently no incentive to change behaviour or attitudes. As a result we have people occupying property much larger than they need or even worse in the current environment, properties lying empty.

I do agree with you in one aspect. Increased property taxation alone isn't a solution to the current housing crisis but it could/should be a part of a multifaceted approach to addressing it.

You can't downsize to a property that doesn't exist.

Graham

beauf wrote: »

You can't downsize to a property that doesn't exist.

Lots of markets don't exist before economics/necessity/incentive creates them.

beauf

Graham wrote: »

cerastes wrote: »

Because its mostly not practical, cost effective or realistic to downsize.

Really, lots of people manage to downsize without a problem.

The 'cost effective' part can be rebalanced by making it more expensive not to downsize.

Lots of people manage to rent. Maybe that's not a problem either.

.The demand is not for larger houses And We are not building property suitable to down size into.

Making more expensive taxes helps no one.

beauf

Graham wrote: »

beauf wrote: »

You can't downsize to a property that doesn't exist.

Lots of markets don't exist before economics/necessity/incentive creates them.

Housing is too expensive. Your plan is to make it even more expensive.

Graham

<snip>

beauf wrote: »

Making more expensive taxes helps no one.

Could help lots of people if other taxes are reduced as a result or spending is increased in other areas. I'm generally against higher taxation but property is one area where I think it's appropriate to encourage most effective use of limited resources (housing/land).

murphaph

beauf wrote: »

You'd think by now someone would have considered they whole country can't live in Dublin.

There is loads of development land on Dublin. It's not a remotely overcrowded city. The problems are a lack of joined up thinking mostly.

Lukeskyrunner

Is Dublin more expensive to rent in than Melbourne?

surrender monkey

God this thread has taken a horrible slant altogether.

So we should force people to downsize to properties when they don't want to by taxing them into poverty now? They have worked and financed the roof over their own heads and probably struggled during the years they paid their mortgage to keep up with maintenance and all the associated costs of property ownership (life assurance, house insurance etc)

On the other side of the coin though Local Authority tenants get a house for life on a differential rent of 10-15% of household income ( with free boiler services, upgrades to windows, insulation, electrical and heating all funded from capital expenditure. The very notion of those tenants having to downsize to free up that property to a family off the housing list would never be entertained even though there are over 100,000 families waiting for their accommodation on the housing list.

I own a small 3 bed in Dublin, not a great area but with a low mortgage and I can tell you I have struggled to pay for everything and have sacrificed a lot. I would trade down if I could but it is simply not feasible for me as I would have to take out a new mortgage at a very unattractive rate and loose my tracker. I would have a lesser property and pay more for it and struggle even more. Taxing me into oblivion would simply mean I couldn't pay bills and put me into debt. Where would I go? How would I afford that? I couldn't afford market rent and don't think I should have to house share in my 60's. I've been working since I'm 14 years old and I've never claimed anything I've been self suffient .Its a very inhumane solution in my opinion but I'm guessing the people who agree with this are possibly trying to get on the ladder so to speak, my guess is when their children leave home and it's their turn to be removed from their properties it would feel unfair to them too.

athtrasna

Mod note

You were asked to keep this thread on topic yet today we strayed into Fair Deal and vehicle emissions. Not to mention personal attacks.

No more warnings, the thread is on borrowed time.

Graham and Surrendermonkey take it to pm please

beauf

murphaph wrote: »

There is loads of development land on Dublin. It's not a remotely overcrowded city. The problems are a lack of joined up thinking mostly.

Its not overcrowding. Its the lack of housing.

Anyway the point remains. There is a chronic shortage of housing. Rents will increase until that basic issue is resolved. Rent caps don't work it just makes it go on behind closed doors. As has been experienced elsewhere.

appfry

Stella Clever Strapless wrote: »

Most people don't want to leave their homes, they have lived there for years, brought up their kids there and would most likely want to leave the house to one or more of their kids. I think it would be a disgusting move to try tax people out of their properties and I don't believe it would work anyway. They have propably spent many years getting the house just as they want it so why would they want to leave it.

Also just because 2 people live in a 5 bed house doesn't mean the other rooms aren't required. The peoples children come to visit and need rooms (this is a very regular thing in some families with people home most weekends), grandchildren calling and staying etc etc. A house is a lot more than blocks and a roof to most people its memories and a place they love.

Well said there.
I believe that people have also spent a lifetime making a life and getting to know and rely on their friends and neighbors in their are. Now that they are old and need the help and friendship of those that they have built that relationship with over many many years it is cruel of people to start suggesting ways of forcing them out of their homes and more importantly their life as they know it.

People looking to treat old people like this really disgust me to tell the truth.
They dont just want to take these peoples houses, they want to take their lives.

Graham

appfry wrote: »

People looking to treat old people like this really disgust me to tell the truth.

That would be quite shocking if it had been suggested.