The Walking Dead | Season 7 | Episode 4 | Service [AMC] [SPOILERS]

Omackeral

5

maximoose wrote: »

God I absolutely hated that Fly episode :pac:

Thought it was garbage myself. I was lucky as I binge watched, I can't imagine waiting a week for that... and then waiting another week for more. Shudder.

intheclouds

Sounds like

Bottle episode = filler episode.

The Talking Bread

6

intheclouds wrote: »

Sounds like

Bottle episode = filler episode.

As I said, not necessarily so? There is a fair claim to refer to the last 3 episodes being perceived as bottle episodes but they are far and away not filler episodes! Especially in the grand scheme of things going forward in the season narrative.

Fox Hound

6

To be honest the reason that the show has slowed down is probably down to the pressures from AMC,,,,the first season for me was my favorite and there was only 6 episodes, then it was followed by a very strong second season which was 13 episodes, then after that the show doubled in size in terms of series length.....So I think that the writers probably struggle to meet the demand of what AMC want from them and we are suffering...you always hear that Studios are always getting involved with scripts and length of serious because they feel that because they are pumping the money in that they have the power to make the show the way they want......In contrast to GOT, who have stuck to 10 episodes every season and get the Job done and leave people wanting more.....I don't blame the writers I think AMC have a lot to answer for in the change of format from season 1 and story telling!!

Dubh Geannain

5

maximoose wrote: »

Seem to be in the minority in enjoying that episode after a dull last two episodes.

If that turns out to be morse code though they can fûck right off, be even stupider than Shiva :pac:

I enjoyed it. Just not as much as I would have liked :cool:

intheclouds

The Talking Bread wrote: »

As I said, not necessarily so? There is a fair claim to refer to the last 3 episodes being perceived as bottle episodes but they are far and away not filler episodes! Especially in the grand scheme of things going forward in the season narrative.

Well the last 3 episodes were nothing like the fly BB episode.

But it is a pain the way TWD insists on only showing stuff from one storyline per episode.mit really affects the pace of the show. It also destroys cliffhangers. People lose interest when they something like Glenn and the dumpster and they don't show the outcome the next episode.

To me it feels like more old fashioned linear tv pacing.

What does the term bottle mean in bottle episode? I don't get it?

The Talking Bread

6

In fairness there has been nothing like the ridiculousness of the Glenn episode before! It was a mess! Mainly because everyone more or less knew he would survive but also because the plausibility of his escape was very low. I think there attention there was to try unconvincing to deceive the comic readers and general knowledge as to the fact Glenn may not be the recipient of Lucille. It was a kind of "they killed him off but brought him back so maybe they won't kill him off again" thing.
It kind of worked in that regard. It gave him and Maggie that itty bitty emotional reunion and magnified sense of hope before taking it away again.

I agree, it was a mess, only because there was no way they would kill off a main character like that, on his own, no witnesses etc unless they went down the farm shed route again and Zombie Glenn appeared on the street in front of Maggie.

In that way I was 99% sure, in fact 100% sure (confident) he wasn't dead so it wasn't really a cliffhanger I invested any emotional interest in!


Perhaps Google bottle episode? My description is from my own approach to what it means to me.

As I said I disagreed with the fact the other episodes were bottle episodes from my standpoint but I can acknowledge that others take different view based on their interpretation but they definitely weren't filler episodes and I think I gave decent enough arguments to support the rationale of how the last 3 episodes were structured. But from hereon I expect a wider mix between the locations in individual episodes as the season settles in.

skipper_G

5

The Talking Bread wrote: »

An episode that is largely confined to one location/only a few (or even just one) main characters/specific narrative.
The likes of Morgan's flashback episode last season or The Governors flashback episode would be on the higher end of bottle episodes on TWD. Remember the season when they were all spit into small groups after the prison destruction, focusing on, say Daryll and Beth in one episode, Rick, Morgan, Michonne and Carl in another.

Fly in BB is considered one of the most acclaimed "Bottle episodes"

I wouldn't even call a lot of these TWD episodes bottle episodes as they still push the narrative of the story on. Sometimes bottle episodes are just thrown in to fill in the season or out of artistic egotism by the producer who wants to grab a bit of the limelight!

Fly was fantastic

I wouldn't call the last few episodes bottle episodes. They've basically fractured the narrative into it's constituent parts. And while it does work sometimes, like you mentioned S4- Post prison destruction it reaffirmed the separation of the group. It doesn't work all the time. Right now, the writers have become over reliant on using it as a story device. And every episode is a single strand, watching week to week that method isn't as effective.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your earlier post, when you mentioned cost per episode and usage of the actors. This is AMC's cash cow, and they're milking it, I don't have a problem with the studio making some cash but not at the cost of the quality of the show.

storker

6

J. Marston wrote: »

The way Carl is written is ridiculous. He saw two people from his group have their heads reduced to red mush and still thinks it's a good idea to be acting the hard man towards that group.

Carl is probably the most consistent character in the group. He's always been incapable of doing what he's told or showing some common sense.

Omackeral wrote: »

I rated this episode a 6. There was a good load of tension throughout the entire show and you never know if Negan is going to just kick off. I usually do enjoy bad guys but I really wanna see him and Dwight get what's coming to them.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who finds Negan just annoying. His constant leaning back as he talks, his inability to shut up, and his equal inability despite having what must be hundreds of scavengers at his disposal, to find a pair of trousers that fits.

"Typical master criminal...loves the sound of his own voice" (Blackadder)

It doesn't seem to have dawned on Negan yet that his "system" is unsustainable. "Bring me something interesting or I'll kill someone." What a genius. Put unnecessary extra pressure on the people providing for you, who are already under additional pressure because their ability to provide for themselves has been halved, so no doubt Lucille will insist on her pound of brain, or some similar talky long drawn out b/s, thus rendering his servants' task even more difficult...and so it goes on.

Ezekiel seems to have thought it through much more intelligently, and while he admits he enjoys the trappings and status, he does seem to have the general good in his mind. He's a perfect foil for Negan. I do hope we'll get to see his tiger using Negan as a chew toy...or failing that, Dwight.

PhiloCypher

What was the significance of the smoking rubble Michonne was looking at the end ?

skipper_G

5

PhiloCypher wrote: »

What was the significance of the smoking rubble Michonne was looking at the end ?

That was the mattresses The Saviors took from Alexandria. They took them and burned them to show that they can

maximum12

skipper_G wrote: »

That was the mattresses The Saviors took from Alexandria. They took them and burned them to show that they can

I thought it was a pile of rubble too until I read the explanation on this thread.

nc6000

3

Wow, that was pretty poor.

They should have machine-gunned the lot of them when they turned up at the gate. Sorry Daryl but you'll have to be sacrificed for the good of the many.

That_Guy

5

I enjoyed this episode at the time of watching but since I've watched it a few things are bothering me about it.

- When Carl takes aim at that fella for taking all of their medicine why doesn't Negan "cut that shít out" and kill somebody to send a message to the rest of Alexandria?

- Poor Rosita (Roseeta? Rowzeta... Yer wan) has so much potential to be a badass but they stick her with a gormless idiot like Spencer in a fairly pointless scene.

- Negan is a bad ass for sure but how many times do we need to see him do his thing in the one episode? They're in danger of having it become overkill thus lessening the overall threat.

- We got a good look at Dwight last week and his character but they seem to have just erased everything about his doubts over Negan and is back to being a complete dick.

- Where in the fúck are Tara and Heath? Denise is gone, the group has suffered big losses but I have a feeling that the emotional anguish is going to be lost whenever they do decide to reappear.

- Standalone episodes are ok when there's interesting things going on but this is just pure filler for the most part. Again, pacing is killing this show and the writers/producers don't seem to see it.

I voted a 6. I probably would have voted higher if it was a shorter episode. There's the guts of a good episode but too much filler when the story could have been told in a standard episode and probably would have been more effective.

I like what they did with Daryl in this episode though. Silent and brooding all the way through.

One thing that really bugged me overall was that Negan and co walked into Alexandria without a care in the world. Rick could have assembled everyone with weapons in strategic positions to knock that whole crew off when they first arrived before taking everything.

maximum12

That_Guy wrote: »

One thing that really bugged me overall was that Negan and co walked into Alexandria without a care in the world. Rick could have assembled everyone with weapons in strategic positions to knock that whole crew off when they first arrived before taking everything.

Rick explained that they are totally out-numbered. How many people capable of fighting are in alexandria ? It's a handful. He made the mistake once of thinking they could take Negan on and it cost them heavily. So basically it would be one last suicidal stand.

That_Guy

5

maximum12 wrote: »

Rick explained that they are totally out-numbered. How many people capable of fighting are in alexandria ? It's a handful. He made the mistake once of thinking they could take Negan on and it cost them heavily. So basically it would be one last suicidal stand.

Outnumbered but not by much it looked like. A well placed shot with that rocket launcher could have wiped out a good few. Then it's just a matter of rigging the entrances with traps and taking out the rest who somehow make it past those.

I want to try and suspend my disbelief but Negan and co haven't been to Alexandria before. Rick and the group know the best vantage points and could have easily formed some sort of plan to try and deal with the threat.

We don't know how much time has past since the deaths so perhaps that was a factor in why they didn't try anything but I dunno. It seemed pretty glaring to me.

The Talking Bread

6

The actress that plays Tara was on maternity leave, back episode 6 I think. Likewise Heath, who was filming new series of 24.

Olishi4

That_Guy wrote: »

I enjoyed this episode at the time of watching but since I've watched it a few things are bothering me about it.

- When Carl takes aim at that fella for taking all of their medicine why doesn't Negan "cut that shít out" and kill somebody to send a message to the rest of Alexandria?

- We got a good look at Dwight last week and his character but they seem to have just erased everything about his doubts over Negan and is back to being a complete dick.

Negen doesn't "cut that **** out" here because he doesn't want to kill them. He wants everything that he can get from them. He wants them to respect him through fear but he has to do that by allowing little things to pass while constantly keeping them in check.

Had he killed someone in this visit after killing Glen and Abe, the group would retaliate because they would think that he is just going to kill them all off one by one. He doesn't want them to retaliate, he wants them to comply so he will do this by giving them little highs, letting the odd thing go and then some but not too many big lows where he lashes out and does something drastic to keep them in fear.

No they haven't erased Dwights doubts or personality. That's how he acts to get by and has always appeared to the group and the viewer. The viewer just know more about him and the reasons behind his behaviour now.

Fox Hound

6

One thing that really bugged me overall was that Negan and co walked into Alexandria without a care in the world. Rick could have assembled everyone with weapons in strategic positions to knock that whole crew off when they first arrived before taking everything.


Rick Didn't Know, Negan arrived unannounced and thats why they were caught off guard

The Talking Bread

6

Gregorym2 wrote: »

One thing that really bugged me overall was that Negan and co walked into Alexandria without a care in the world. Rick could have assembled everyone with weapons in strategic positions to knock that whole crew off when they first arrived before taking everything.


Rick Didn't Know, Negan arrived unannounced and thats why they were caught off guard

Yeah, they handled a lot of that badly. I imagine having Darryl was a reason for the standoffish expectation of The Alexandrians from The Saviours. They were never going to outgun an army of men so why risk their lives and especially the life of Daryll to gun down a small portion of Neagans guys who were readily armed and prepared for fight.


But as I said, it is really entering cartoon appreciation territory for the producers and they are probably suspending a lot of reality in that sense. The other thing is they came to Alexandria earlier than originally planned with Rick to catch them off guard somewhat.

maximum12

That_Guy wrote: »

Outnumbered but not by much it looked like. A well placed shot with that rocket launcher could have wiped out a good few. Then it's just a matter of rigging the entrances with traps and taking out the rest who somehow make it past those.

I want to try and suspend my disbelief but Negan and co haven't been to Alexandria before. Rick and the group know the best vantage points and could have easily formed some sort of plan to try and deal with the threat.

We don't know how much time has past since the deaths so perhaps that was a factor in why they didn't try anything but I dunno. It seemed pretty glaring to me.

In terms of timing it's only a few days since the deaths. We know because Rick complained to Negan when they turned up "you said a week "

Rick hasn't recovered from being broken by negan in that time'm to come up with a plan.

Also I don't think Rick had any idea how large the saviors group actually is. Presumably they didn't all travel to Alexandria. I can't remember but did different people do the pickup at the kingdom?

silverharp

some US critics seem to have become as unhinged as Negan :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ZetD0KQ8k

bazz26

Na, Donald Trump is really Biff Tannen from Back to the Future:

MadYaker

This whole Neegan thing is nonsense tbh. He showed up with what, 20/30 guys? How many people are there in Alexandria? They definitely have enough guns for every person in Alexandria. So kill Neegan and the guys he brought and it would all fall apart. Also the way Neegan is being acted is annoying and makes the whole thing hard to watch.

TerrorFirmer

7

Not a bad episode and I think Jeffrey Dean Morgan is doing a great job as Neagan, but I didn't quite buy into the alexandria thing. One or two well placed marksman could have easily taken out Neagan and the entire crew, not to mention that they had enough people and arms to go around for more than a fair fight - would Neagen really squander everything he has in some mad frontal assault on a well defended, walled compound?

For it to be really credible I feel they should have a major material advantage, ala the Governor and the tank in the earlier season, or some other significant assest like humvees or similar at least - maybe the show is just doing a poor job of explaining just how big an army Neagan commands, but Ep4 was pretty unconvincing with its portrayal of the takeover.

Otherwise good episode though, great acting from JDM and Lincoln.

StringerBell

5

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Not a bad episode and I think Jeffrey Dean Morgan is doing a great job as Neagan, but I didn't quite buy into the alexandria thing. One or two well placed marksman could have easily taken out Neagan and the entire crew, not to mention that they had enough people and arms to go around for more than a fair fight - would Neagen really squander everything he has in some mad frontal assault on a well defended, walled compound?

For it to be really credible I feel they should have a major material advantage, ala the Governor and the tank in the earlier season, or some other significant assest like humvees or similar at least - maybe the show is just doing a poor job of explaining just how big an army Neagan commands, but Ep4 was pretty unconvincing with its portrayal of the takeover.

Otherwise good episode though, great acting from JDM and Lincoln.

Started responding hours ago and got distracted so sorry if this has been said, but the Saviours have already been established as a pretty huge group, spread across multiple locations. There is no need to reinforce that again really, even if they defeat what is at Alexandria they know more will come, many more, with big guns and vehicles and they will likely be killed.

crisco10

StringerBell wrote: »

Started responding hours ago and got distracted so sorry if this has been said, but the Saviours have already been established as a pretty huge group, spread across multiple locations. There is no need to reinforce that again really, even if they defeat what is at Alexandria they know more will come, many more, with big guns and vehicles and they will likely be killed.

Was thinking that, was that not the intention of the episode in the last series? When Rick and Co were driving around and around but kept getting blockaded by the Saviours and each time with more and more vehicles and men. The implication there was that they were omnipresent and in almost infinite numbers.

DoozerT6

Rick and co didn't ambush and sniper the Saviours at the gates of Alexandria because they weren't expecting them - Negan arrived a couple of days earlier than he said he would. They were caught on the hop, so to speak. Although why wasn't there someone keeping watch from the walls (as we've seen in previous episodes), who could at least have given them a half-minute's notice or so to get themselves together?

Olishi4

crisco10 wrote: »

Was thinking that, was that not the intention of the episode in the last series? When Rick and Co were driving around and around but kept getting blockaded by the Saviours and each time with more and more vehicles and men. The implication there was that they were omnipresent and in almost infinite numbers.

Ye, the point is that Rick is genuinely afraid of Negan and his group and feels out of his depth.

There was a moment I think where Rick was holding Lucile and had the opportunity to attack Negan but he chickened out. He's too afraid to do anything now but obviously that will change when he feels there is a better opportunity and when Rick himself and his own group come to terms with their current situation and then they will look for a possible retaliation.

I know others think Negans character is too exaggerated but I find him quite believable. He psychologically scares people and messes with them and enjoys it.

PropJoe10

4

MadYaker wrote: »

This whole Neegan thing is nonsense tbh. He showed up with what, 20/30 guys? How many people are there in Alexandria? They definitely have enough guns for every person in Alexandria. So kill Neegan and the guys he brought and it would all fall apart. Also the way Neegan is being acted is annoying and makes the whole thing hard to watch.

Not to mention that Rick had about two dozen opportunities to skull Negan across the back of the head with the baseball bat. Getting really tired of this whole phase now.