Julian Assange, President Trump and bipolar Sweden

recedite

Good quotes. There is a reason the movement was called "the Enlightenment". Not too many of that calibre around today, unfortunately.

CalamariFritti

Stopped reading at 'looney left Sweden'...did I miss something good however unlikely?

recedite

No. Go back to sleep.

Manach

johnp001 wrote: »

I doubt that any of the first three presidents you mention above would have considered Assange to be a perpetrator of treason or sedition based on their statements on the issue of free speech and a free press.

Again, slightly off-topic but I might disagree slightly there. I've read accounts of the those presidents and while Washington and Jefferson would (in general) be supportative of a free press whilst Adams was in power he attempted to muzzle opposition to his term and had sentenced dissidents to jail based on some very draconian laws. This is based on the book on the Madison vs Marbury case.

johnp001

Fair point about President Adams Manach.

In terms of the freedom of the press in the West it is impossible to assess the current situation without paying attention to the Hutton inquiry was a major watershed for governments destroying press freedom.
When the BBC reported information from David Kelly regarding misleading and false claims in the Joint Intelligence Committee report on Iraq's weapons that was used as justification for the 2003 invasion of Iraq David Kelly was found dead shortly afterwards.

The Hutton Inquiry into this death was farcical:
Revealed: How a Blair fixer picked the judge for the David Kelly Inquiry just three hours after the weapons inspector's suicide

Hutton inquiry closed David Kelly medical reports for 70 years

The upshot of the inquiry was that the journalist involved, the BBC's chairman and its director general all resigned.
The BBC can no longer be considered a credible source of information since the Hutton inquiry whose report (in the words of a journalist who was scapegoated to protect the politicians who lied):

Andrew Gilligan wrote:

This report casts a chill over all journalism, not just the BBC's. It seeks to hold reporters, with all the difficulties they face, to a standard that it does not appear to demand of, for instance, Government dossiers.

recedite

If this account is true, then Julian Assange narrowly avoided being "found dead" himself.

Can’t we just drone this guy.

He must be breathing a huge sigh of relief that Hillary isn't the one getting ready right now to take hold the reins of power.

HensVassal

Nody wrote: »

Oh how many faults in such few words; let's see.

First of all Swedish law does not allow anyone to be extradited if they face the death penalty as it's seen as cruel; so the US would have had to guaranteed that not being on the table and it would require USA to actually make such a request to be even considered. On the other hand UK has been very willing to hand over everyone inc. their own citizens with ADHD etc. for hacking and spying so great plan to flee to that country... Now that's esp. funny as he had applied for a work and residence permit in Sweden before the charges so he must have been really afraid of being extradited from Sweden, right? So before being notified of charges he applies for working permit and residence permit which would give you a public listed address etc.; after charges suddenly afraid of being extradited. Funny how that looks like someone trying to come up with an excuse to run...

Secondly the rape charges that were "trumped up" consisted of two different women accusing him of sex without consent; you know that's rape in most minds but I guess not in your mind and I know this will be a shocker for you but in Sweden a woman has the right to say no at any time inc. after penetration and you have to stop. I know those pesky women and freedom to decide over their body; should lock them up and stop abortion like Trump and Ireland, am I right or am I right?

Third the delay in the interview; this was correctly called out by Swedish court to be going slowly and telling them to put a bit of effort into it; and guess what they did and the interviews went ahead. You know how a legal system with controls and balances are suppose to work which is more than we can say about for example USA's court system.

So where do we now stand? Well we have a person who applied for residence and work permit in Sweden, get accused of rape and decide to run away from the country claiming he's at risk of extradition suddenly and when prosecution drags their feet they get called on it by the court and speed things up. You want to know what's the funny part? Trump could promise not to go after him in writing and Assange would still refuse to leave the embassy because he's not afraid of being extradited to the USA because that's not the reason he fled in the first place. If it was anyone else people would be up in arms about it but because it's Assange it has to be a big lie for some reason; reminds me of Trump and the locker talk excuse.

Are you aware that both women insist that no rape occurred?

alastair

recedite wrote: »

If this account is true, then Julian Assange narrowly avoided being "found dead" himself.
He must be breathing a huge sigh of relief that Hillary isn't the one getting ready right now to take hold the reins of power.

Death by sarcastic comments. It's the danger that we ignore at our peril.:rolleyes:

recedite

Around 7000 people killed by drone strikes during the Obama years.
Each was an extra-judicial killing. Every. Single. One.
Who knows whether they were accompanied by a sarcastic commentary at the time of the executions.

alastair

recedite wrote: »

Around 7000 people killed by drone strikes during the Obama years.
Each was an extra-judicial killing. Every. Single. One.
Who knows whether they were accompanied by a sarcastic commentary at the time of the executions.

If you think the comment was anything other than a joke, you're incredibly gullible. Every killing in a war is extra-judicial btw.

recedite

That is true I suppose. However there is something novel, something very direct and personal in the ability of the modern US administration to be able to sit in a comfortable chair watching a live video feed of somebody else living their own little life on the other side of the world, and to casually decide whether to kill that person.

When Napoleon said he only wanted "lucky" generals, it was really an admission that he had little or no control over an actual battle, and relied on other people to deal with events as they unfolded.

While no drone strike would occur in the countries that Julian Assange frequents, the mere existence of that "option" and also others such as the Gitmo "option" which exist outside of any legitimate legal process does seem to have had an effect on the mentality of those who nowadays inhabit the White House and the Pentagon. Its the very real notion that inconvenient people can be made to disappear, which was expressed in that half-joking way by Hillary.

alastair

recedite wrote: »

Its the very real notion that inconvenient people can be made to disappear, which was expressed in that half-joking way by Hillary.

Except they can't. Drone strikes, while as extra-judicial as any killings in war, are constrained by the terms of the congress-approved Authorization for Use of Military Force - which is limited to Al Qaeda related targets. I don't think Assange falls under that umbrella. Though I'm sure they could have a word with Putin, who seems to have no such compunction in disappearing any thorns in his side. Probably cheaper too.

Phoebas

I guess Assange is off to the USA now?

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/819630102787059713

recedite

This latest move is not about Assange, or even about Manning. Its Obama trying to rewrite his legacy..

johnp001 wrote: »

I think that Obama would be very well advised to pardon Snowden and Manning (hopefully along with Sterling, Brown and Hammond) before the end of his term in order not to be remembered as the president who carried out a war on whistleblowers.

Too little, too late.