Why do parents accept education for their kids "as is"?

vicwatson

kippy wrote: »

Would you prefer that they got religion homework also - they may at some point......
You are suggesting that schools keep parents in the dark?

Your accusations, calling parents lazy, just because they don't have your viewpoint etc, is not going to help you gain traction with them in trying to get support for your goals.

Missing the point post, deliberately or otherwise:rolleyes:

eviltwin

kippy wrote: »

There is ALWAYS a choice, it is whether the parents feel strongly enough about it to make that choice.

There has to be reasonable choice. It's not good enough to tell a parent there is a place in a school of their choice but they have to drive over an hour to get there. Or tell them they can opt their child out of religious instruction but they have to take time off work to supervise their child.

The Muppet

vicwatson wrote: »

Drivvle, because, by far, for the majority there is NOT a choice

Perhaps the reason there is no choice is because there is no sufficent demand for that choice.

kippy

Zynks wrote: »

Sure, but why is the dominant viewpoint in education that of an organisation that doesn't include a single (officially) parent?

Well, that would be a very complex answer and well outside the scope of my interest in this topic.

kippy

eviltwin wrote: »

There has to be reasonable choice. It's not good enough to tell a parent there is a place in a school of their choice but they have to drive over an hour to get there. Or tell them they can opt their child out of religious instruction but they have to take time off work to supervise their child.

Again, you said there was no choice - there is a choice - how strongly you feel about it is usually the decider.
People want more choice - they one would expect enough like minded people get together and register their interest in having a choice.

vicwatson

kippy wrote: »

There is ALWAYS a choice, it is whether the parents feel strongly enough about it to make that choice.

Head in sand wont get anyone far, not all people living in Ireland live in an Urban area like Dublin

Zynks

The Muppet wrote: »

Perhaps the reason there is no choice is because there is no sufficent demand for that choice.

That is a possibility that hasn't been discarded yet.

kippy

vicwatson wrote: »

Missing the point post, deliberately or otherwise:rolleyes:

I don't know - otherwise?
What was the point of the post? The OP believes the schools are hiding the amount of time given to religion from parents, therefore parents never get a full picture?

Birdsong

OP, if you care so much you need to get involved and change from the inside. Get involved in the parents council, the board of management. In situations like this my answer is "step up or shut up"

I think as well that when people talk about what else kids could be doing in school they forget that kids have short attention spans, they aren't going to be able to learn non stop from 9.00-3.00.

eviltwin

kippy wrote: »

Again, you said there was no choice - there is a choice - how strongly you feel about it is usually the decider.
People want more choice - they one would expect enough like minded people get together and register their interest in having a choice.

You might see that as a choice but I see that as a cop out and completely unworkable for the majority of people.

kippy

vicwatson wrote: »

Head in sand wont get anyone far, not all people living in Ireland live in an Urban area like Dublin

Again - you stated there was no choice. This kind of thing annoys me - a lot.
There is a choice. The fact that it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean that there isn't a choice.

vicwatson

The Muppet wrote: »

Perhaps the reason there is no choice is because there is no sufficent demand for that choice.

Ah here, you said there was choice earlier and now you agree there isn;t a choice, make your mind up:rolleyes:

The_Valeyard

vicwatson wrote: »

And this is a thread dedicated to it in Parenting, whats the problem with that?

No problem, simply stated she might find more people with similar views in that A&A thread? Whats the problem with that?

vicwatson

Birdsong wrote: »

OP, if you care so much you need to get involved and change from the inside. Get involved in the parents council, the board of management. In situations like this my answer is "step up or shut up"

I think as well that when people talk about what else kids could be doing in school they forget that kids have short attention spans, they aren't going to be able to learn non stop from 9.00-3.00.

I'd love to hear your further proposals for this change from the inside you talk about, how does one master this?

The_Valeyard

Zynks wrote: »

I am questioning the imposition of religion in education, not the entire education system.

Not sure if this applies to all public schools, but my kids only get maths, reading and writing homework. Why is religion hidden from parents at home? Is it so we don't question it? Why is it that none of the parents I met this afternoon after talking to my daughter could tell me whether they prayed everyday in the classroom or how many times? It suits them to keep it out of sight of the 'responsible' adults, I think it suits lazy parents to pretend it is not an issue and just let it be.

What you define as imposition others do not see it that way. Your views are not the only views out there. It is not hidden from parents. If you read the schools ethos, code of conduct, etc it would state curriculum, syllabus, class times, etc. Its hardly a secret now. Its not kept away from adults what you are insinuating is disgraceful.

Zynks

kippy wrote: »

I don't know - otherwise?
What was the point of the post? The OP believes the schools are hiding the amount of time given to religion from parents, therefore parents never get a full picture?

Out of sight, out of mind. That was the point.

vicwatson

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Probably the opposite actually. A very vocal organised atheist group with media support tend to shout down those who disagree.

Actually you will find people who agree with you on the A&A forums, they have a thread dedicated to this.

I'm not sure the OP is looking for "people who agree" with them, they have just posed some questions

The Muppet

Let's be honest if we are talking about time spent on religion there is another subject that more time is spent on and will be of less use in the day to day life of the majority of students than religion is.

kippy

Zynks wrote: »

Out of sight, out of mind. That was the point.

But, its a nonsense point - for multiple reasons already outlined.

The_Valeyard

vicwatson wrote: »

I'm not sure the OP is looking for "people who agree" with them, they have just posed some questions

It does not seem that way in my opinion.

kippy

The Muppet wrote: »

Let's be honest if we are talking about time spent on religion there is another subject that more time is spent on and will be of less use in the day to day life of the majority of students than religion is.

Indeed - but there are multiple subjects that are taught to kids that certain kids will never have the direct need for - but that's not the entire end game of education.

vicwatson

The_Valeyard wrote: »

It does not seem that way in my opinion.

And you are entitled to it, but you should really read the OP

kippy

vicwatson wrote: »

And you are entitled to it, but you should really read the OP

The OP has been given multiple answers but chosen to ignore them or belittle them.

vicwatson

kippy wrote: »

The OP has been given multiple answers but chosen to ignore them or belittle them.

All yours answers maybe?

meeeeh

This thread could make some decent points if OP wouldn't be preoccupied telling everyone how much better parent they are than anyone else. Although how it escaped to such an invested parent how much praying they do for three years and a bit is beyond me.

Anyway mine is in catholic school. It's a good, well run local school. That was main criteria but yeah I would prefer if religion was outside of school. Just not strongly enough to send him to local educate together (or other religious schools close by). The sad fact is that religion doesn't determine how well you will do in school, where you live does.

The_Valeyard

vicwatson wrote: »

And you are entitled to it, but you should really read the OP

I think its obvious I have and I do not need instruction from you on that.

Zynks

kippy wrote: »

Again - you stated there was no choice. This kind of thing annoys me - a lot.
There is a choice. The fact that it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean that there isn't a choice.

In business, 25% market share constitutes a monopoly open to abuse of power and therefore regulated. Now, you are suggesting that with an organisation controlling 90% of the education 'market' that there is choice?

kippy

vicwatson wrote: »

All yours answers maybe?

No, pretty much all of them that don't align with their own viewpoint.
Calling parents lazy, schools secretive were two highlights for me.

kippy

Zynks wrote: »

In business, 25% market share constitutes a monopoly open to abuse of power and therefore regulated. Now, you are suggesting that with an organisation controlling 90% of the education 'market' that there is choice?

Business?
Market?
Come on.
If you want to make those comparisons you'd better be prepared to continue the logic.

There is choice.

vicwatson

Zynks wrote: »

is it just that we feel powerless?

Why is this still happening? Do people really think this is OK?

Sure, you may argue that I “put my child in a catholic school, what do I expect?”. True, I expected some unwanted indoctrination, which I am happy to ridicule when my kids arrive home, but seriously, how many religious adults pray four times before 9 am and 2.30 pm? So why is it OK to force five year olds to do it?

Are children not entitled to freedom of religion? How about freedom from religion?

Can someone help me understand why doesn’t the majority of people want this separation?

They are above

The OP has been given multiple answers but chosen to ignore them or belittle them.

I think its obvious I have and I do not need instruction from you on that.

Why not take the opportunity to respond one by one?