Why do parents accept education for their kids "as is"?

Absolam

FortySeven wrote: »

I assume you mean me lying to get them in. Hmm. That priest knew I was an atheist. I told him it was just to get them in school. He didn't care, desperate I suppose. Eager to perhaps hopefully fill his empty pews. He even knew my children are bastards, all 3, and one is not even mine. Really lowering the bar they are. Let anyone in nowadays. A few years ago he'd have probably thrown them in a laundry, or a boys home, or a septic tank.

So... you don't need integrity if you think you can put other people down? Whatever gets you through your day I suppose.

FortySeven

Absolam wrote: »

You're recommending Protestant Christianity now? It certainly has a variety of flavours to choose from alright, so there's that in it's favour I suppose. I'm not convinced that those nations that tried to get rid of religion forever are exactly models of prosperity and peace though. Perhaps one of those children with the internet at their forefront can help you figure that one out? But don't ask them to indulge your predilection for rubbing with olive oil... that could go wrong quickly.

Communism suppressed religion and drove it underground. I'm not advocating that. We'll educate it out this time. The UK is a case in point. 25% don't have religion. When my mother's generation dies that number will treble. If it's not in schools it is over, that's why the church won't give it up.

Get em young and vulnerable and they'll believe anything.

kippy

FortySeven wrote: »

Communism suppressed religion and drove it underground. I'm not advocating that. We'll educate it out this time. The UK is a case in point. 25% don't have religion. When my mother's generation dies that number will treble. If it's not in schools it is over, that's why the church won't give it up.

Get em young and vulnerable and they'll believe anything.

The last sentence is patently not true.

FortySeven

kippy wrote: »

The last sentence is patently not true.

Ever heard of the tooth fairy? Santa? God?

Mr Arrior

FortySeven wrote:

I'm happy in the knowledge that there won't be a Catholic church in a few generations. Arguing about it now is pointless. It will die a natural death now we can all travel, use the internet and view the lie in its entirity.

FortySeven wrote:

Religion in schools is barbaric. The only difference between God and Santa is that at some point those who lied to us told us the truth about one of them.

FortySeven wrote:

Isn't it funny that far from omnipotent, most gods fade away to nothing at the distance of a sailing voyage?

FortySeven wrote:

Religion is geographical. We should not abuse our children with this archaeic way of living.

Typical bitter atheist.

kippy

FortySeven wrote: »

Ever heard of the tooth fairy? Santa? God?

And of course we all still believe in them.......as do kids of all ages.....indoctrination works.

Please will someone think of the children.

FortySeven

Mr Arrior wrote: »

Typical bitter atheist.

Is that a negative thing?

I am perfectly comfortable in the knowledge that Catholicism is in decline. I believe they have meetings about it? How to attract new recruits and all that.

How anyone still goes in the doors after all the kiddie fiddling? How the hell they're allowed near schools I have no idea. Makes me shiver.

(Thought I'd save the biggest reason for last, you know, the rampant pedophilia?)

Great bunch of lads. Can't wait to see what comes out of the Tuam sewer. Any day now. Might lose a few followers then too.

pwurple

Pretty happy with it in the school we use, it's one of the many reasons we chose the school even though we are not of that faith. The school is integrated with the local chuch, which is part of our community. The children sing at the services, the church runs a few parties for the community. I think it's a great way for us to interact with our local neighbours of all ages.

I enjoy meeting and knowing people who believe different things to us. There is very little teaching I would ban outright from a school. What's the point in living insular lives looking for echo chambers on the internet for close-minded views. So while we are not particularly devoted to any religion, we go to some services, some mass.. they are baptised catholic, but know a few jewish prayers too. There was an indian girl working with me for a few weeks, she kindly showed my girls about her religion and we participated in some ritual for that too. I want the children to be exposed to and be familiar with all the things that they are going to see in their lives, like funerals, baptism, weddings etc. Not just standing there like a lemon not knowing what the heck to do and getting freaked out.

And as for swapping religion for maths? I see a lot of value in understanding religion. The vast majority of the population of the planet are religious in some form. Learning about it in an abstract form from a book is not comparable to participation. If my children are going to deeply understand other people's motivations then participating in religion will be very useful.

While I would personally love more maths on the curriculum, because I love it, and my children love it, if I was going to strip anything out, it would be the much larger waste of resources -> Irish. But you know what, I don't get a bespoke school, and while I think the amount of time devoted to Irish is completely ludicrous, particularly given the poor level of it that most of us emerge with... I do see value in retaining our culture and being aware of our heritage.

Remember, religion isn't even a compulsory exam subject, without which you can't even bloody matriculate.

ps, it has been suggested multiple times, but you do have a say in how your school is run. I take an active involvement in ours. I am a member of the PA and am one of the parent reps on the board of management. Step up and take control if you want it. If I have time, You have time.

Orion

FortySeven wrote: »

He even knew my children are bastards, all 3, and one is not even mine.

Lovely thing to call a child :rolleyes: No more talk like that - even of your own children.

Orion

FortySeven wrote: »

Is that a negative thing?

I am perfectly comfortable in the knowledge that Catholicism is in decline. I believe they have meetings about it? How to attract new recruits and all that.

How anyone still goes in the doors after all the kiddie fiddling? How the hell they're allowed near schools I have no idea. Makes me shiver.

(Thought I'd save the biggest reason for last, you know, the rampant pedophilia?)

Great bunch of lads. Can't wait to see what comes out of the Tuam sewer. Any day now. Might lose a few followers then too.

I think you might need to take a break from this thread. I don't want to see any more of this type of posting style or soapboxing.

You can take your crusade against the catholic church to another forum - and I don't mean another one on boards - take it somewhere else entirely.

FortySeven

Orion wrote: »

Lovely thing to call a child :rolleyes: No more talk like that - even of your own children.

Apologies. I won't post again as I've said my piece.

That is the technical term though. Still.

nozzferrahhtoo

Zynks wrote: »

I want the state to take full responsibility for primary and secondary education removing all religions from the classroom.

Can someone help me understand why doesn’t the majority of people want this separation?

They probably do want it. But maybe what they want MORE is to send their child to the school that is A) the highest quality and geographically convenient. And for most people that is the Catholic School whether they like it or not. And they do not want to risk access to that school by kicking up a fuss, or upsetting the status quo.

One can offer all the alternatives in the world, but until such time as they show the same or better quality.... people will not be overly pushed to take them.

A lot of your goals align with those of Atheist Ireland who have worked closely with the UN Human Rights councils and with Educate Together on these issues, and have campaigned directly at some politicians.

Their AGM is this weekend as it happens. You might consider going along, joining up, and seeing if they can support you or you them in some way going forward.

If you get a chance while there, make a point of talking to Jane Donnolly which is their "Education Officer" in Atheist Ireland, and deals with this issue more than any other. She is remarkably well informed on the issue, the relevant laws, and what AI are doing about it and what you might be able to do to help.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

How are they at risk from physical or mental damage?

That would probably depend on the definition of mental damage and religion I guess. Certainly indoctrinating children into accepting not just slightly but ENTIRELY unsubstantiated nonsense poses the risk that they will be inclined to accept OTHER entirely unsubstantiated nonsense later in life. Which we would not want or we would live in a world where substantial numbers of people fund things like using over priced water as medicine..... or swaths of science are objected to with attempts made to replace them with stultifying nonsense like creationism....... oh wait.... we do live in that kind of world. Go figure

Tongue back out of cheek however, I can certainly understand where parents are coming from what they say they would prefer schools were solely for teaching the things we actually have SOME reason to think true or useful, while leaving indoctrination into unsubstantiated nonsense to the people who run the club houses for their particular hobby of choice. Compare the numbers of people in the world who want creationism taught in schools with the number of people in the world who want to teach Biological Evolution in churches and sunday schools..... and you will notice some disparity in the numbers I expect. We keep schooling out of their club house, it is not extreme to want to live in a society where the reverse is true too.

That is clearly not the system we currently live in, but I can certainly feel for the parents who wish we did.

Mr Arrior wrote: »

If its not for you, it doesnt give you the right to disrespect other peoples beliefs.

Why would it need to give you that right? We already have that right, and so we should. People deserve respect. Ideas and beliefs do not.

Calhoun wrote: »

I do agree that is a problem but there are folk within range of an ET school, there is also the opt out others have talked about in this thread.

Some people are not happy with the "opt out" that is offered by Catholic Schools however because there is a lot you can not opt out of it seems. We have what is called an "integrated curriculum" where people feel that even if you opt your child out of the specifically religious module.... that the religion is still permeated throughout the rest of the school day in other ways.

So some people feel it questionable just how effective the "opt out" procedure is.

Calhoun wrote: »

I wouldn't be against branching out and learning about other religions but there are people who like the ethos of schools and send children there specifically with that in mind.

I genuinely would love to know what the figures on that actually are, but I do not know myself if any studies have actually been done. Anecdotally in my own experience I do not know a single parent who has chosen a school based on ethos. The majority in my own experience chose solely based on location. And I myself was sent to the primary and secondary school closest to my home.

The only kids I know who were sent to a school not based on location, were sent based on the quality of the school. That is true of the friends I have now sending kids to school. And it was true of the kids I knew who went to my primary school but did not go on to the same secondary school as me. Their parents sent them to the school they thought was better.

Everyone elses anecdotes might vary of course, but the number of people I know of who made their decision based on ethos alone is currently precisely zero. I do not like to extrapolate from my own anecdotes however, so I would love to see studies done on the issue to get the actual numbers.

pwurple wrote: »

I enjoy meeting and knowing people who believe different things to us. There is very little teaching I would ban outright from a school.

I like meeting such people too. I am not sure what that has to do with schooling or the education curriculum though. There are multiple ways of achieving that without religious indoctrination or a religiously integrated curriculum.

In fact could the argument not be made that a school curriculum AND admissions policy that are both ENTIRELY blind to race, sex and religion would not be MORE likely to diversify the people you and your children meet..... than a curriculum and admissions policy that selects in any way for prioritizing any one over the rest?

As for banning things, I am not sure that banning is the right world. Rather I think our curriculum and educational approach should be modified under the hammer blows of modernity, and construction of a state curriculum in a school should be based around the ideal of teaching children what we actually have reasons to think true. Not things we have not just little, but ABSOLUTELY NO arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to think true.

pwurple wrote: »

What's the point in living insular lives looking for echo chambers on the internet for close-minded views.

What is "close minded" about it though? What is close minded about thinking schools are not the place for religious indoctrination? What is close minded about thinking that what we teach as "true" in schools should be at least SOMEWHAT substantiated?

Perhaps you have a different definition of "close minded" to me, but I really do not see what you think is "close minded" here.

pwurple wrote: »

And as for swapping religion for maths? I see a lot of value in understanding religion.

Indeed. I think a lot, if not the vast majority, of people against religion in schools are against indoctrination of religion in schools. Teaching any religion or religions as "true".

What you speak of in your post is more akin to a curriculum module on world religions and world cultures. And I have yet to meet a SINGLE person in my life against THAT. Quite the contrary. Many people would love to see it. Myself included. I love the image in my head of lots of little ambassadors for Ireland traveling the world with a working knowledge of the basics of the culture, customs, religions and history of any of the countries they happen to end up visiting.

For example, contrary to the expectation of many, Atheist Ireland campaign to have MORE people read and study the Bible. Including in schools. Not to teach it as true, but to learn the customs and history relevant to it, to learn what is in it and to read it, and to learn the relevance and impacts it has on many other things like English Literature. For example people CAN appreciate and enjoy Milton and Shakespeare without a grounding in Biblical literature of course........ just like color blind people CAN enjoy life every bit as much as you and I too. But that they are missing SOMETHING of the depth to either is also clear.

pwurple wrote: »

I think the amount of time devoted to Irish is completely ludicrous, particularly given the poor level of it that most of us emerge with...

I am not sure that is limited to Irish though. My feeling is that Ireland is particularly bad IN GENERAL at teaching other languages. My own feeling is that a large part of that problem is we learn those languages through English.

Whereas if you go to somewhere like Germany (where I currently live) they learn their foreign languages, like English French and Spanish, through THAT language. And their standard of use of those languages appears to me to be very high. I have spoken English with German kids of age 10-12 at a higher standard than my German has reached after a decade living here.

I think our state curriculum and teaching methods can be improved in many ways really, and the separation of religious indoctrination from that is only a fraction of what I feel can be done.

Orion

FortySeven wrote: »

Apologies. I won't post again as I've said my piece.

That is the technical term though. Still.

No it is not. It is from a time when these children were considered illegitimate. Those days are long past. Even imply it again and you're done on this forum. I've a zero tolerance approach for people who think they're big and clever for calling children offensive names.

Absolam

FortySeven wrote: »

Communism suppressed religion and drove it underground. I'm not advocating that.

Well obviously... it's the other plenty global leading countries that left the old system centuries ago and flourished (but not the Protestant ones), right?

FortySeven wrote: »

We'll educate it out this time. The UK is a case in point. 25% don't have religion. When my mother's generation dies that number will treble. If it's not in schools it is over, that's why the church won't give it up.

Sure... the same logic as putting the Bible in common language rather than latin. If it worked then it'll work now,eh? Though....

FortySeven wrote: »

Get em young and vulnerable and they'll believe anything.

Right. 'Cos that thinking worked with your three children... who are great believers, aren't they?
I'm starting to think your notions of indoctrination aren't all you're cracking them up to be, if I'm honest. Not a policy you approve of, obviously, but you know... just sayin'.

farmchoice

now i haven't read all this thread so apologies if this point has already been made but the reality is Irish people by and large see Catholicism as a cultural thing more then a religious thing.

in the last census ( not this year but the one before) 84% of people said they were roman catholic, basically in excess of 95% of all people christened a catholic were still claiming to be one even though we all know that actual attendance at mass or any effort to practice the faith is a fairly small fraction of this.

in fact i would argue that a majority of that 84% by and large hold a very dim view of the catholic church yet put it down on the census form!!

why? in my opinion they define themselves as an Irish catholic not because they are religious or even necessarily believe in god but because they see it as almost a life view informed by a vaguely religious upbringing that they credit with giving them certain positive traits, compassion generosity of spirit etc.

they are then happy for their children to experience the same because they view the whole prayers and religion as basically harmless and considering that none of them have said a prayer themselves in 30 years see no long term harm to the next generation who have to suffer it.

now i am an atheist and find this view of things from grown educated adults infuriating but at the same time let my children attend a catholic school. their mother wanted them to and it was more convenient and its a very good school etc etc.

the whole system is wrong in my view but while the vast majority of the population are happy with the status quo i'm afraid we are going to be stuck with it for a while yet.

Zynks

Zynks wrote: »

Thanks, your post illustrates perfectly the implicit pressure that would make many parents sit back and stop questioning things, perpetuating the status quo.

No, I'm afraid you and parents like you are the reason the Catholic church runs the majority of schools in the country.
I notice you didn't answer if your child is baptised?
I know plenty of friends who baptised their kids, so they could have a party for the child & get the kid into the local school.
It's hardly the answer if you want to take the church out of schools.

farmchoice

ye my child was christened my wife is a practicing catholic, well after the fashion of Irish Catholics, never goes near a church unless its for a wedding, christening ect, but still professes a great faith.

so I'm going to blame her more then me, but yes she and her ilk are very much the problem and are responsible for the maintenance of the status quo.

the thing is though she doesn't see it as a problem, she likes it. even though she hates many things about Catholicism, as i said she does not practice this religion in any real way, is liberal in her view on most matters campaigned actively in the marriage referendum and will do the same to repeal the 8th.

at the time of the marriage referendum she went campaigning with a friend of hers, a gay man and one time seminarian who had to leave maynooth because of his sexuality, this broke his heart as it was his hearts desire to be a priest and he didn't come from a very religious home either. to this day he loves the catholic church and is a very active member.

when i point out the outrageous hypocrisy of his position he just shrugs his shoulders and laughs and say things like '' ah sure you cant heed all of it''!!

this is the kind of thing you are up against, it might seem crazy to you and me but to the vast vast majority of Irish people its a perfectly reasonable position to hold.

MeatTwoVeg

I would agree that religion should be removed from schools entirely.
I probably don't feel strongly enough about it though to do anything.

I spent primary and secondary school in religious run schools and I was raised by two practicing Catholic parents.
I still came out of school an atheist, as did most of my friends. There is undoubtedly an attempt to indoctrine children in schools but it doesn't seem, to me anyway, to be very effective.

My own kids are in a Catholic school at present and I'd certainty prefer if the time spent on religion (and Irish for that matter) were spent on more practical subjects or PE, but in general I find the teachers to be excellent and think my kids are receiving a good education.

I'll trust them to make their own minds up when they're older, as far as I'm concerned they can believe in whatever they wish. I certainly wouldn't push an atheist viewpoint on them or contradict anything they're learning in school, but I would encourage them to always think about things for themselves if you like.

Just my 2cents worth.

Big Bag of Chips

Zynks wrote: »

I am legally required to place my daughter under the unsupervised supervision of strangers in a place for almost six hours per day.

You're not.

eviltwin wrote: »

It's a large chunk of time that could be better spent on learning something useful such as a language or on something for personal development such as music, sport etc.

In our school we're charged extra for music (tinwhistle, that most teachers could manage a couple of tunes) and sport (basketball and soccer coaches brought in by the school? Again, I'm not sure what skills need to be taught that the teachers couldn't handle themselves?) So I'm happy to take the free classes that are given... Whatever they are!

I used to be involved with the Parents Association and tried to address these issues, but other parents weren't interested in "rocking the boat".

Religion in primary school is mostly teaching children to be kind, and think of others, "love one another" etc. I would guess over 90% of the 20-40 year old population went to Catholic schools and I'd imagine a large percentage of that population wouldn't consider themselves Catholic now. Maybe as others mentioned they call themselves Catholic in a cultural sense rather than a religious sense. So, to use that unpopular line "it didn't do us any harm".

I think as years move on there will be a shift away from religion in schools. My children are in a Catholic school and already I can see a lot less religion and school masses etc than when I was in school. They have one school mass in Sept when they go back and one in June before they finish. We had one a month. Communion preparation, while yes practice and preparation is done in school, there are now designated masses not in anyway organised by the school that the children partake in on Sundays that we didn't have in our day.

Like everything, change will come, and is coming, but it will be slow. But as mentioned many parents have a "meh" attitude rather than feeling too strongly one way or another to fight it. Religion is a small enough part of their education. I don't think it is as huge as some people would like to make out it is. And you always have the choice of telling the school your child won't take part. Religion aside, the standard of education is pretty good. So that's why many parents are happy to accept it "as is". Religion isn't necessarily impacting on the rest of their education. It mightn't be of interest to some, but you could argue the same about certain maths concepts, or different areas of Geography (how many of us have ever needed to call on our knowledge of the formation of Ox-bow lakes?) I think the homework is irrelevant, unless people want them to get more homework!! English, Irish and maths homework is standard, but are not the only subjects they do. What they learn in school is reinforced by what they are taught at home. I have 2 children who believe and I have one who hasn't believed any of it, since about 1st class. I talk to all my children the same and I encourage them to believe what they want and to respect that others might believe differently. The 2 that do believe know that the other one doesn't.

It's working for us so far.

ectoraige

Our children are attending a Cathollc-ethos school. This wasn't our first choice, and they had started in the only non-denominational school in the area. However we had to remove our children from that school due to lies from the principal and violent outbursts from another person involved in the management of the school. When we moved school, we made it very clear to the principal that our children would be opted out of religion. We have also discussed religion and morality with our children regularly, they do not feel ostracised, if anything it is helping them learn to think critically.

Our daughter's class is preparing for communion, and the class teacher had started playing hymns during time when the class were practicing their handwriting. Our daughter recognised this as indoctrination, and asked the teacher to play different music. The teacher now plays relaxation music instead.

Our son's class is currently studying Irish history, and when they came to the introduction of Christianity to Ireland, the tale of St. Patrick driving snakes from Ireland was presented as fact. He was able to understand that this is not evidence-based, and is inappropriate to treat as history.

I don't understand the people who send their children to a Catholic school and claim they'd prefer not to, but don't take the basic step of opting their children out of religion.

implausible

I'm surprised that no one has referenced this document: Primary School Patronage survey. It was commissioned by Ruairi Quinn at the time and there is some interesting detail in the results, particularly when it comes to the number of respondents in some towns who would not avail of a greater choice of schools. In some places there is a "we would like change, but leave our own school alone" mentality.

I've been reading some heated opinions on this thread, this might add some data to the debate.

Zynks

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

...I would guess over 90% of the 20-40 year old population went to Catholic schools...

...many parents have a "meh" attitude rather than feeling too strongly one way or another to fight it.

You make good points, thanks. I am 'selectively picking' two snippets of your post because I believe they are not only connected, but actually are cause and effect to a large extent.

Catholic public education always dissuaded independent thinking and individuality (Catholic private education did, but that's another story).

Rubberchikken

if parents feel so strongly about what 'type' of school their kid goes to, wouldn't it make sense to decide where to live/proximity to preferred school before kid arrives?
i find it hypocritical in the extreme to send your child to a religious school and then start knocking the ethos of it.
allowing their religious practices to be ridiculed and mocked at home by supposed 'good' parents is pathetic imho.

i honestly don't think that a few prayers said with teacher and classmates each day will turn them into the monsters the op seems to think the catholic church, for one, is composed of.

if you can't abide what is done in a religious-run school, at least have the courage of your convections and remove your child until a school suited to your needs becomes available, otherwise, be grateful they are getting an education that isn't costing the earth - irrespective of how much money tax payers contribute.

farmchoice

Zynks wrote: »

You make good points, thanks. I am 'selectively picking' two snippets of your post because I believe they are not only connected, but actually are cause and effect to a large extent.

Catholic public education always dissuaded independent thinking and individuality (Catholic private education did, but that's another story).

that's a fairly sweeping statement and id like to see what you are backing it up with.

the vast majority of our tech graduates, all those bright young things that make Ireland a hub for innovative tech industries are from that demographic and came from those schools.

its not that people have not thought about it and just gone ''meh'' in fact its a good bit worse then that, they have thought about it, thought about it plenty and have come down on the side of 'meh it makes little difference''

Zynks

implausible wrote: »

I'm surprised that no one has referenced this document: Primary School Patronage survey. It was commissioned by Ruairi Quinn at the time and there is some interesting detail in the results, particularly when it comes to the number of respondents in some towns who would not avail of a greater choice of schools. In some places there is a "we would like change, but leave our own school alone" mentality.

I've been reading some heated opinions on this thread, this might add some data to the debate.

Thanks, I wasn't aware that this report had been made public. It is a great eye opener and does show how acceptance, tolerance and appetite for change vary across the country.

What really jumps out in my opinion is the third column in table 1: "Number of responses not in support of a wider choice of patronage", which I take as a clever way of finding levels of regional intolerance to diverging religious views. In some places these outnumber the more accepting or wanting change by over 2 to 1. Frankly, that's quite shocking.

Thankfully, the study finds that "The detailed analysis of the parental preferences expressed in each of the areas surveyed as part of the survey exercise indicates that there is sufficient parental demand supporting immediate changes in school patronage in 23 of the 38 areas."

There is hope!

ectoraige

Rubberchikken wrote: »

if parents feel so strongly about what 'type' of school their kid goes to, wouldn't it make sense to decide where to live/proximity to preferred school before kid arrives?
i find it hypocritical in the extreme to send your child to a religious school and then start knocking the ethos of it.
allowing their religious practices to be ridiculed and mocked at home by supposed 'good' parents is pathetic imho.

i honestly don't think that a few prayers said with teacher and classmates each day will turn them into the monsters the op seems to think the catholic church, for one, is composed of.

if you can't abide what is done in a religious-run school, at least have the courage of your convections and remove your child until a school suited to your needs becomes available, otherwise, be grateful they are getting an education that isn't costing the earth - irrespective of how much money tax payers contribute.

That's a facetious argument, one can't just pick where to live, nor can one predict what schools will have availability by the time children come along.
I agree with the hypocriticism of those who complain and yet allow their children to participate in religion. One problem however is that some schools have told parents who tried to opt out that it isn't something they do. Opting-out of religous indoctrination is a right that all children should be able to avail of, even when attending a school with a religous ethos.

Zynks

Zynks wrote: »

You make good points, thanks. I am 'selectively picking' two snippets of your post because I believe they are not only connected, but actually are cause and effect to a large extent.

Catholic public education always dissuaded independent thinking and individuality (Catholic private education did, but that's another story).

I believe the reason the church has such a majority of schools, is because of adults who, baptise their kids, then send them to Catholic schools & then allow them to participate in religion in school.
If enough parents pulled out of religion or rather, pulled their kids out of religion, then schools wouldn't be long changing.
Instead of just complaining OP, maybe you should actually do something?

Zynks

bubblypop wrote: »

I believe the reason the church has such a majority of schools, is because of adults who, baptise their kids, then send them to Catholic schools & then allow them to participate in religion in school.
If enough parents pulled out of religion or rather, pulled their kids out of religion, then schools wouldn't be long changing.
Instead of just complaining OP, maybe you should actually do something?

The reason the church has such a majority of schools is far more complex than what you suggest. It is an organisation that specialises in using guilt and shame for manipulating people and has done that for a very long time. Then it ostracises the ones that dare say they don't 'belong' with their state given 90% share of the schools through demands of affiliation. Added to that there are the many who feel they 'belong' and despise the ones who don't.

Yes, it is hard to break out and it does require people to do something about it, because it won't go away on its own. But don't assume that I am not doing something about it.

the_syco

Zynks wrote: »

Can someone help me understand why doesn’t the majority of people want this separation?

Do you mark on the census if you're part of the church, or not?

As I'd say 90% of Irish people say they are part of the church, the government asks the church for guidance for stuff such as education, etc. Also, said schools are usually owned by the church since many years ago.

Calhoun

It's funny the description of the Catholic Church and their tactics, from reading the thread the lessons have been well picked up as the language used is fairly manipulative.