President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

demfad

Count Dooku wrote: »

Key sentence

According to CNN, if few Russians met each other, it means interference to US elections

No the CIA have leaked that the parts of the Steele Dossier about Russian on Russian conversations have been corroborated. They say they have not collaborated the most salacious parts (sexual) yet. They have not annexed that any of the dossier has been ruled out. This is huge. The CIA have the goods and are willing to leak. If they can corroborate Russian on Russian. They will corroborate Russian on American.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/

jobbridge4life

MightyMandarin wrote: »

What media sources exactly?

All I hear is that mainstream sources are just as bad as the clowns at Breitbart, but I'd love to see an example of plain fabrication from CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Washington Post or other mainstream or 'liberal' sources.

Not to mention the egregious, hateful rhetoric that Brietbart willingly hosts.

RobertKK

MightyMandarin wrote: »

What media sources exactly?

All I hear is that mainstream sources are just as bad as the clowns at Breitbart, but I'd love to see an example of plain fabrication from CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Washington Post or other mainstream or 'liberal' sources.

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/830371171287834624
https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/830215050673598464
https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/830191568321654784
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/830244073021792256

I am not here to bash the media, but the Snowden story came from NBC, and now some are saying it is fake news.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

What media sources exactly?

All I hear is that mainstream sources are just as bad as the clowns at Breitbart, but I'd love to see an example of plain fabrication from CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Washington Post or other mainstream or 'liberal' sources.

I give you plenty such as accusing Trump of being the next Hitler.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I give you plenty such as accusing Trump of being the next Hitler.

Any sources on that?

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if that came up in an opinion piece. I'm looking for actual pieces of fake news- i.e. stories that were published as 'facts' that turned out to be blatant lies, not accusations or comparisons.

The reason I say this is actual fake news organisations like Breitbart have been caught publishing stories as 'facts' which turned out to be complete fabrications. I'm just wondering what proof people have to compare mainstream sources to them.

MightyMandarin

RobertKK wrote: »

I am not here to bash the media, but the Snowden story came from NBC, and now some are saying it is fake news.

Who says it's fake? Other than the Russian and US Govt.'s (who'd obviously say it's fake).

I'd relax with a story like this as it only just came out so there's not really enough to work with to determine if the media are lying. I'm looking for any story or incident in the past where the media were caught flat-out fabricating something.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Any sources on that?

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if that came up in an opinion piece. I'm looking for actual pieces of fake news- i.e. stories that were published as 'facts' that turned out to be blatant lies, not accusations or comparisons.

The reason I say this is actual fake news organisations like Breitbart have been caught publishing stories as 'facts' which turned out to be complete fabrications. I'm just wondering what proof people have to compare mainstream sources to them.

I dare you to google comparisons between Hitler and Trump and see what you get. Fact is the media has consistently over exaggerated not only Trump's views on a variety of occasions but have a shown an amateur level of understanding of the American electoral system.

Water John

As a BTW, listened to Mary Ellen Synon on with Matt Cooper yesterday. she worked for Breitbart. That was a good match. Good lord she is back in this country, spouting her rubbish.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I dare you to google comparisons between Hitler and Trump and see what you get. Fact is the media has consistently over exaggerated not only Trump's views on a variety of occasions but have a shown an amateur level of understanding of the American electoral system.

I'm not looking for exaggerations, I'm looking for the supposed 'fake news' the mainstream is purportedly guilty of publishing.

I'm not denying there's, at times, silly comparisons being drawn, but they're not held up as facts by anyone, certainly not the mainstream sources Trump and his team love brand as 'fake news'.

Do you have any examples of a fake story published by a mainstream source?

Count Dooku

MightyMandarin wrote: »

What media sources exactly?

All I hear is that mainstream sources are just as bad as the clowns at Breitbart, but I'd love to see an example of plain fabrication from CNN, MSNBC, NYT, Washington Post or other mainstream or 'liberal' sources.

seriously?:eek:

'Fake News' And How The Washington Post Rewrote Its Story On Russian Hacking Of The Power Grid

HAHAHAHA. Washington Post’s Fact Checker Punked By Fake Campaign Ads

Russia Hysteria Infects WashPost Again: False Story About Hacking U.S. Electric Grid

16 Fake News Stories Reporters Have Run Since Trump Won

LIST: Washington Post's Josh Rogin Has a BIG Fake News Problem

24 Pieces of MSM Fake News in 5 Days
if it is not enough, I can google more

MightyMandarin

Water John wrote: »

As a BTW, listened to Mary Ellen Synon on with Matt Cooper yesterday. she worked for Breitbart. That was a good match. Good lord she is back in this country, spouting her rubbish.

Honestly, I had no idea who she was, so I had a little look.

She is a columnist with the Mail on Sunday and a contributor to the Daily Mail in the United Kingdom and the Irish Daily Mail

Hmm..

Synon wrote an article claiming most rural crime in Ireland was caused by the travelling community and stated traveller life was "a life worse than the life of beasts, for beasts at least are guided by wholesome instinct"

Uh oh...

Synon caused further controversy when she criticized the Reconstruction and defended Nathan Bedford Forrest's actions during the period, arguing the first version of the Ku Klux Klan was necessary for law enforcement during the time.

Oh dear..

"It is time to suggest that these so-called Paralympics...are – well, one hesitates to say 'grotesque'. One will only say 'perverse'...Surely physical competition is about finding the best – the fastest, strongest, highest, all that. It is not about finding someone who can wobble his way around a track in a wheelchair, or who can swim from one end of a pool to the other by Braille.

She advised the disabled and blind to 'play to your competitive advantage' and added: 'In other words, Stephen Hawking shows his wisdom by staying out of the three-legged race.'

I think I've seen enough here.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'm not looking for exaggerations, I'm looking for the supposed 'fake news' the mainstream is purportedly guilty of publishing.

I'm not denying there's, at times, silly comparisons being drawn, but they're not held up as facts by anyone, certainly not the mainstream sources Trump and his team love brand as 'fake news'.

Do you have any examples of a fake story published by a mainstream source?

I don't have all night to traipse through all the papers that slammed Trump both before the election and during the post election period. With Social Media we have an army of anti Trump trolls who know about as much about the US voting system as i do about the ingredients of Guacamole.

sid waddell

Water John wrote: »

As a BTW, listened to Mary Ellen Synon on with Matt Cooper yesterday. she worked for Breitbart. That was a good match. Good lord she is back in this country, spouting her rubbish.

A vile person with vile views with a vile accent.

MightyMandarin

Count Dooku wrote: »

seriously?:eek:

'Fake News' And How The Washington Post Rewrote Its Story On Russian Hacking Of The Power Grid

HAHAHAHA. Washington Post’s Fact Checker Punked By Fake Campaign Ads

Russia Hysteria Infects WashPost Again: False Story About Hacking U.S. Electric Grid

16 Fake News Stories Reporters Have Run Since Trump Won

LIST: Washington Post's Josh Rogin Has a BIG Fake News Problem

24 Pieces of MSM Fake News in 5 Days
if it is not enough, I can google more

Fair enough, I couldn't access most of the websites due to ad-block blocking, but I managed to see the story about the "hacking" of Vermont's electrical grid by the Russians which never happened.

In fairness, the WP did write a follow-up
piece explaining that:

The Post initially reported incorrectly that the country’s electric grid had been penetrated through a Vermont utility. After Burlington Electric released its statement saying that the potentially compromised laptop had not been connected to the grid, The Post immediately corrected its article and later added an editor’s note explaining the change.

But yeah, they were caught out there.

Edit: Just to add for comparison though, Breitbart published a completely fake story about Dortmund's church being attacked by 'Muslims' on NYE. This turned out to be a complete fabrication, but instead of doing the honourable thing, they chose to stand by their claims, despite being completely debunked.

MightyMandarin

weisses wrote: »

Deleted post

Oh dear that guy and the people on that panel are a bunch of insufferable idiots.

As someone who actually believes in God and would consider themselves a christian, I find it easier to understand why ordinary muslims distance themselves from fundamentalists the same way I have to when agnostic or atheists attempt to portray all christians in the same light as these clowns.

Fundamentalism of all sorts, not even just religion, is the problem with the world not the objects themselves imo.

demfad

Just to understand the significance of the growing Flynn scandal.
Rachel Maddow spells it out here as a dam bursting story:
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/magnitude-of-trump-adviser-flynn-s-russia-scandal-gains-clarity-874908739801

9 'senior intelligence' sources reported to the Washington Post that Flynn had infact spoken to the Russian Amabassador about Obamas recent Russian sanctions before the inauguration. In itself this is extremely serious. It is illegal under the Logan Act (although no-one has ever been convicted). In a normal situation he would be fired.
On top of this Priubus, Flynn, Pence all categorically backed Flynns account that sanctions were not discussed and that there was only one call.
Either they are all lying or as Pence claimed this is the account Flynn gave him/them. This puts Pence in serious trouble too as he HAD ACCESS to the transcipts of the calls.
Now for the most serious part. The Intelligence sources also noted that there had been many contacts between Flynn and the ambassador (Russian Gov) BEFORE this.

Ill capitalise this for effect.

WHILE THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT WAS PLANNING AND EXECUTING A HACKING CAMPAIGN TO HELP DONALD TRUMP WIN THE ELECTION, TRUMPS CHIEF SECURITY ADVISOR WAS IN REGULAR CONTACT WITH THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT.

The other leak claiming that parts of the Steele 'dossier' (Russian to Russian conversations) have been verified is not coincidence and deliberately adds weight to the dossier.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/10/politics/russia-dossier-update/index.html


Jason Chavetz Utah Republican Senator and head of the Senate oversight committee so vocal about Trump's taxes etc during the campaign has been eerily silent since the election. He was shouted out of a speech at a local Utah town hall with chants to 'Do Your job'.

ION Rybolevlev suspected of being Putin's bagman and whose private jet had been spotted at Airports beside Trump's plane during the campaign, landed in Palm Springs yesterday and openly played a round of golf with Trump and Flynn. This is not normal and dangerous times.

ancapailldorcha

If this thread is going to degenerate into name calling and link dumping then I'm going to have to close it.

weisses

A Pastor claiming god Intervened by making him president ... One of the surprising consequences

“To me, it was so obvious that God had intervened in that situation,” Jeffress said. “I believe He intervened for Christians in this country. I really do.

And yet they are afraid of those evil Muslims and other bad hombres entering the country ... They should be afraid of their own christian fanatics

Mind boggles ...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/01/28/pastor-robert-jeffress-god-intervened-in-our-elections-to-make-donald-trump-president/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

demfad

weisses wrote: »

A Pastor claiming god Intervened by making him president ... One of the surprising consequences

And yet they are afraid of those evil Muslims and other bad hombres entering the country ... They should be afraid of their own christian fanatics

Mind boggles ...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/01/28/pastor-robert-jeffress-god-intervened-in-our-elections-to-make-donald-trump-president/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

The Christian right (dominionists and others), tea party and others are united through the Council for National Policy.
In a meeting with a 100 people apparently Bannon/Trump promised them everything. Betsy Devos is in a key position of education as the secularisation of young Americans is key to the survival of this outlook. Thses people are deep in Trumps administration. Doninionsists believe it is (white male) Christians destiny to rule and control government, media and other bodies.
These people knew Trump was a vessel. They don't care. That's why his core was steady. The deal was done, the promises was made.
The Christian far right are in power in the US. They couldn't elect their man Cruz, so Trump is the vessel and they will tolerate his kleptocracy even his treason to get their ends.
Trumps demise wont sink them unless there is a deep super scandal that takes the big Finance (Mercers etc) down also.

donaldtramp

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If this thread is going to degenerate into name calling and link dumping then I'm going to have to close it.

Finally someone with some sense to restore the peace!

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Any sources on that?

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if that came up in an opinion piece. I'm looking for actual pieces of fake news- i.e. stories that were published as 'facts' that turned out to be blatant lies, not accusations or comparisons.

The reason I say this is actual fake news organisations like Breitbart have been caught publishing stories as 'facts' which turned out to be complete fabrications. I'm just wondering what proof people have to compare mainstream sources to them.

How's this for a fact. The US and coalition allies are fighting terrorism is the Muslim world. More like harmful exaggeration.

recedite

demfad wrote: »

ION Rybolevlev suspected of being Putin's bagman and whose private jet had been spotted at Airports beside Trump's plane during the campaign, landed in Palm Springs yesterday and openly played a round of golf with Trump and Flynn. This is not normal and dangerous times.

"Putin's Bagman" acting suspiciously in Florida :pac:
What makes you think he is a "bagman" for anyone? He is a billionaire in his own right. He made money by modernising an old soviet potash fertiliser industry (and also created an environmental disaster at one of his mines).

The guy has a house there, which he bought from DJT. Of course he is going to be out on the golf course when DJT arrives with the Japanese premier in tow. What is the point in paying extortionate membership fees if you are not going to go down to the club for these kind of events?

The anti-Trump conspiracy theories are getting ridiculous.

MightyMandarin

http://observer.com/2017/02/donald-trump-administration-mike-flynn-russian-embassy/

In light of this, and out of worries about the White House’s ability to keep secrets, some of our spy agencies have begun withholding intelligence from the Oval Office. Why risk your most sensitive information if the president may ignore it anyway? A senior National Security Agency official explained that NSA was systematically holding back some of the “good stuff” from the White House, in an unprecedented move. For decades, NSA has prepared special reports for the president’s eyes only, containing enormously sensitive intelligence. In the last three weeks, however, NSA has ceased doing this, fearing Trump and his staff cannot keep their best SIGINT secrets.

This is insane. Even the NSA doesn't trust the president with information.

Whether you like Trump or not, if his administration has lost the trust of their intelligence agencies, something is going very, very wrong.

recedite

MightyMandarin wrote: »

This is insane. Even the NSA doesn't trust the president with information.

Oh really? Who exactly in the NSA says so?
According to your link...

A senior National Security Agency official explained that NSA was systematically holding back some of the “good stuff” from the White House, in an unprecedented move.

Right, so Mr Anonymous Top Spy said so. Say no more. Fake News.

Also your link says that General Flynn was fired by Obama in 2014 from the Defense Intelligence Agency for...

for managerial incompetence and poor judgment—flaws he has brought to the far more powerful and political NSC

His "incompetence" was to suggest to Obama that the White House at the time was not taking the rise of Islamic State, and Jihadi terrorism in general, seriously enough.
Subsequently we had rapid territorial gains by IS, millions of refugees pouring into the EU via Turkey in 2015, and numerous terrorist attacks in the EU and also the US by people pledging allegiance to IS.
Followed soon afterwards by Brexit, Trump, and the rise of the far right politicians in Europe.

So if being able to predict this kind of thing was Flynn's "poor judgement and incompetence" lets have lots more of it please

SkinnyBuddha

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Whether you like Trump or not, if his administration has lost the trust of their intelligence agencies, something is going very, very wrong.

They know he's involved with the russians.

MightyMandarin

recedite wrote: »

Oh really? Who exactly in the NSA says so?
According to your link...Right, so Mr Anonymous Top Spy said so. Say no more. Fake News.

So if being able to predict this kind of thing was Flynn's "poor judgement and incompetence" lets have lots more of it please

Christ if we've reached the stage where sources have to be publicly identified in order to be credible then we really have lost the plot as a society.

You do realise spies remain anonymous because, well, they're spies...
If they get caught there's a damn good chance they get killed, and you need only look to Russia to see what they do to spies.

If news agencies have to publish their sources in order to be credible, well then there'll never be any sort of investigative reporting done. How could Watergate have happened, or the Pentagon Papers, or the Panama Papers? How could anything horrific or illegal our Govt.'s or institutions do in secret be revealed?

I hope and don't expect news agencies to publish their sources or spies to become publicly identifiable just so clowns like you can't call it "fake news".


Also, Flynn has sure as hell proved himself to be incompetent by getting nabbed by US intelligence discussing the russian sanctions without authorisation thus breaking a felony. But you probably have some 'alternative facts' to dispute that.

Hank Scorpio

Russians infiltrated the state department too, not a peep in the MSM. After Abedin was under FBI investigation for her ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and taking leave for weeks stuff like this is sketchy as hell.

MightyMandarin

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Russians infiltrated the state department too, not a peep in the MSM. After Abedin was under FBI investigation for her ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and taking leave for weeks stuff like this is sketchy as hell.

Given this, do you think it's still a good idea for Trump and Putin to have a close relationship?

Hank Scorpio

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Given this, do you think it's still a good idea for Trump and Putin to have a close relationship?

You know I said Russians sarcastically right? It was three Muslim brothers stealing the information.

donaldtramp

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You know I said Russians sarcastically right? It was three Muslim brothers stealing the information.

Are you sure? What sources did you hear this from? My guy in Egypt says otherwise...