President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Rightwing

Christy42 wrote: »

Actually one accidental effect of the Trump Presidency so far is to highlight Obama's legacy.

It shows off Obama's ability to tell people what he means to tell people. Trump contrasts Obama's knowledge of various policies and his work ethic. See the difference between the effort put into Obamacare vs the rushed Republican health care bill. Also Obama even managed to work with some Republicans on it, Trump could not work with a large chunk of his own party on health care nevermind the opposition.

Obama may have made Obamacare but Trump is the man who made Obamacare popular with American people.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/02/24/politics/pew-survey-obamacare-support-record-high/index.html

While he had issues with foreign policy thus far it seems like Obama will be in between two far more aggressive presidents (Obama intervened when countries had gone to pot, Bush made the mess in Iraq and Trump has serious upped the anti on Obama's various projects as well as taking attempting to use the military to scare north Korea. While Obama took far too long to stop weapons sales to the Saudis, Trump made the decision to start them again.

Obama also made the US far more popular in the western world after the Bush years. Trump has pissed off countries from all sorts. The only country that may have increased their respect for us could be Saudi Arabia as far as I can see.

I am unsure as to how much he deserves but Obama will get credit for the gay marriage becoming legal across the country which is contrasted with Trump removing some lgbt protections.

His legacy is he got Trump in as president. There's a lesson here for the Western world. They are abandoning the majority to pander to minority.

B_Wayne

Rightwing wrote: »

His legacy is he got Trump in as president. There's a lesson here for the Western world. They are abandoning the majority to pander to minority.

Yet Trump still cannot get rid of Obamacare which is a significant part of his legacy.

BabyCheeses

Building the wall and being a fiscal conservative is like being a steak eating vegan.

Billy86

Rightwing wrote: »

His legacy is he got Trump in as president. There's a lesson here for the Western world. They are abandoning the majority to pander to minority.

No matter how much you might want it to be, that's the legacy of the person Trump ran against as well as an amazingly under-informed and gullible electorate, not of Obama, who left office with one of the better approval ratings of any president since they began tracking.

Trump also lost the popular vote by millions, so your last sentence makes no sense. He literally won the election by pandering to the minority, but the EC system is also set to pander to the minority so it worked for him.

Rightwing

B_Wayne wrote: »

Yet Trump still cannot get rid of Obamacare which is a significant part of his legacy.

They will improve it. They'll do something on tax. Like in a match, you have to admit when your team is losing

relax carry on

Rightwing wrote: »

They will improve it. They'll do something on tax. Like in a match, you have to admit when your team is losing

So I'm assuming you are a republican. Do you see the Trump presidency as "winning" then? Do you not think his presidency will damage the party in anyway? Will he ultimately cause more harm than good for the Republicans?

Christy42

Rightwing wrote: »

They will improve it. They'll do something on tax. Like in a match, you have to admit when your team is losing

I am sure they will do something on tax. Health care was a big loss. They are Republican so they can't put more money into it. They can't reduce it as nothing but a complete repeal will satisfy and the democrats will fight any reduction of healthcare for the less well off. Trump had some nice soundbites about better cheaper healthcare but since he did not have a plan for it we can safely say it was a pack of lies.

Republicans have had 7 years to come up with something. They are not coming up with a plan anytime soon.

Rightwing

relax carry on wrote: »

So I'm assuming you are a republican. Do you see the Trump presidency as "winning" then? Do you not think his presidency will damage the party in anyway? Will he ultimately cause more harm than good for the Republicans?

They won, against all expectations. Got everything. Bit like Enda Kenny, no one really expected him to do so well, but again, the predecessor (cowen) was so poor, the door was left wide open.

InTheTrees

Christy42 wrote: »

Trump had some nice soundbites about better cheaper healthcare but since he did not have a plan for it we can safely say it was a pack of lies.

Yup. He blatantly lied. The white house never had any kind of idea what to do and ended up going with Ryans plan.

All his bluster about an "amazing" alternative everyone would love was lies.

B_Wayne

Rightwing wrote: »

They won, against all expectations. Got everything. Bit like Enda Kenny, no one really expected him to do so well, but again, the predecessor (cowen) was so poor, the door was left wide open.

And so far he has been absolutely disastrous in terms of actually doing anything within his first hundred day. That's the honeymoon period but he has literally failed miserably, he has numerous failed executive orders, his promise of getting rid of Obamacare failed. He has also had an investigation opened into collusion with Russia and has been plagued with numerous other scandals. His presidency to date has been a disaster.

Rightwing

B_Wayne wrote: »

And so far he has been absolutely disastrous in terms of actually doing anything within his first hundred day. That's the honeymoon period but he has literally failed miserably, he has numerous failed executive orders, his promise of getting rid of Obamacare failed. He has also had an investigation opened into collusion with Russia and has been plagued with numerous other scandals. His presidency to date has been a disaster.

All fake news.

Do people want his tenure to be a disaster (just because it's trump) ? Or would they prefer if he pulled off a good tax plan etc?

Water John

Do you know what 'fake news' is? It's not what Donald Trump calls fake news.

The 100 days by any objective measure, and you can use DT's own 100 day pledge as the measure if you want, has failed badly.

B_Wayne

Rightwing wrote: »

All fake news.

Do people want his tenure to be a disaster (just because it's trump) ? Or would they prefer if he pulled off a good tax plan etc?

Nope, none of the above is 'fake news'. This is based on his behaviour, his blocked executive orders which had a large tendency to be xenophobic, his constant attacks on the media, his weekly golf trips to his own resort and his failure to get through his landmark destruction of Obamacare. The Russia scandal is still ongoing and will continue to be for the foreseeable.

Since half of his policies consist of racist and xenophobic rubbish, I'm happy for him to be a disaster as he will be a lesson learned on the dangers of electing ignoramuses into positions of power. Which he is proving to be.

ancapailldorcha

Rightwing wrote: »

All fake news.

Do people want his tenure to be a disaster (just because it's trump) ? Or would they prefer if he pulled off a good tax plan etc?

Dismissing viewpoints you don't like as fake news is unaccepable here.

You have multiple below standard posts in this thread. Any more and you will get a ban.

Christy42

Rightwing wrote: »

All fake news.

Do people want his tenure to be a disaster (just because it's trump) ? Or would they prefer if he pulled off a good tax plan etc?

A: the definition of fake news does not apply here.

B: sure I would love him to come up with a good tax plan. I would also love if a monkey walked up and gave me a million quid. I have to accept they are exceptionally unlikely.

Donald placed a lot of political capital on the line for his first 100 days.
The immigration ban could not have a delay as the "bad dudes" would get in. However it was so badly implemented and supported that it is still not in place. Note that the original timeline for the main ban has since ended so presumably there is no need for it any more.

The wall needed to be started quickly was the excuse for the US paying for the wall (with Mexico paying back later theoretically) and now it doesn't look like it will be in the budget.

Even the health care bill was pushed with only a few weeks work on it. The sanctuary cities was also pushed. He pushed all these (while spending his weekends golfing). You can't start of trying to do everything in a frenzy as the great man who will cut through all the red tape. Fail spectacularly and then pass it off as just early days. He rushed these things forward not through he liberals.

Billy86

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yup. He blatantly lied. The white house never had any kind of idea what to do and ended up going with Ryans plan.

All his bluster about an "amazing" alternative everyone would love was lies.

Now now, Trump was happy to accept claims he wrote that bill before it completely died on it's arse. He can own that right along with the other Republicans, too.

RDM_83 again

Leroy42 wrote: »

Secondly, and I understand that this is no really valued by the US voters, but Obama got US 'liked' again. After 9/11, most countries were on the side of the US, but as time went on and W Bush made things worse, by the end of his term the US was seen as almost not welcome. Anti US sentiment was growing around the world. Not just the normal Anti Capitalist Pigs stuff, but normally pro US countries like Ireland were moving steadily away. Obama fixed this. Sure he might have all been BS, but it was sold well. That is very positive for the US.

Christy42 wrote: »

Obama also made the US far more popular in the western world after the Bush years. Trump has pissed off countries from all sorts. The only country that may have increased their respect for us could be Saudi Arabia as far as I can see.

I don't think outside opinion of current US really matters in the slightest with the possible exception of its real potential enemies.

Foreign person on the streets view doesn't matter to the voters and it really doesn't matter to the Republican voters, if they are concerned about what some random Brit or Italian thinks they probably vote Democrat anyway.

Friendly nations opinion doesn't matter, they aren't going to cause any issues in any significant way as the USA is too vital a trade partner, if they start to consider the US as a flakey ally its a win for the US anyway as they up their defence spending reducing the load on NATO.
Allies not aiding in foreign wars isn't a big deal, France goes its own way anyway, Britain will generally support the US anyway and even if those countries don't its not a loss that will effect mission capabilities.

Neutral smaller poorer countries, who else are they going to deal with apart from China who they already do anyway.

Larger potential players, China and Russia, both respect strength, don't care about foreign opinion and are more concerned about sphere's of influence and are strategically vastly weaker than the USA.

The cold war is over, there is no USSR, we had terms like the 3rd world because there was another major backer a country could switch too if the US wasn't sweet to them, that day is long past.

rossie1977 wrote: »

Us debt increased by 168% under Reagan and a number of years during his term the budget deficit exceeded $200 billion...the deficit had never exceeded $74b prior to Reagan

Reagan was a Cold War politician and should be judged as such, excessive defence spending might have been an wasteful tool but it had a point in and off itself aside from results thats less relevant these days (basically even if it wasn't delivering observable results the soviets could see the money being pumped in and remember they don't know whats waste and whats being diverted to black projects and Skunk works)

Rightwing

Christy42 wrote: »

A: the definition of fake news does not apply here.

B: sure I would love him to come up with a good tax plan. I would also love if a monkey walked up and gave me a million quid. I have to accept they are exceptionally unlikely.

Donald placed a lot of political capital on the line for his first 100 days.
The immigration ban could not have a delay as the "bad dudes" would get in. However it was so badly implemented and supported that it is still not in place. Note that the original timeline for the main ban has since ended so presumably there is no need for it any more.

The wall needed to be started quickly was the excuse for the US paying for the wall (with Mexico paying back later theoretically) and now it doesn't look like it will be in the budget.

Even the health care bill was pushed with only a few weeks work on it. The sanctuary cities was also pushed. He pushed all these (while spending his weekends golfing). You can't start of trying to do everything in a frenzy as the great man who will cut through all the red tape. Fail spectacularly and then pass it off as just early days. He rushed these things forward not through he liberals.

I'm not posting on this thread anymore for obvious reasons, but:

Fake news, does anyone know who or what to believe anymore?, I certainly don't. All this CIA stuff was an embarrassment.

His tax plan will struggle to get though because the country is in a poor situation economically. Bringing Corp Tax down to 15% is good in theory. Compete with the likes of Irl, but the deficit looks unsustainable.

I wouldn't get too caught up with the 100 day thing, that's just an arbitrary number. I do concede Trump does make things easy for his critics when spouting stuff.

Water John

Runs off a one page tax plan to get it inside the 100 days.
The emperor has no clothes, except one A4 page.

Professor Moriarty

President refuses to disclose 20 years of tax returns. President introduces large cuts to business taxes. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Christy42

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not posting on this thread anymore for obvious reasons, but:

Fake news, does anyone know who or what to believe anymore?, I certainly don't. All this CIA stuff was an embarrassment.

His tax plan will struggle to get though because the country is in a poor situation economically. Bringing Corp Tax down to 15% is good in theory. Compete with the likes of Irl, but the deficit looks unsustainable.

I wouldn't get too caught up with the 100 day thing, that's just an arbitrary number. I do concede Trump does make things easy for his critics when spouting stuff.

Someone said there are investigations into links between his campaign team and Russia which has already found some links. That the investigation is happening is fact and yet you call it fake news?

The US economy is hardly down the drain. That is merely Trump rhetoric so it seems his failure is not as bad as it is. Also a handy excuse when he screws millions out of healthcare.

pontoonz

how are they backing kig jong un into a corner,

bang bang

ancapailldorcha

pontoonz wrote: »

how are they backing kig jong un into a corner,

bang bang

Hi,

This is a forum for serious debate. Please read the charter before posting again.

Billy86

So... NAFTA... we all remember NAFTA right? The big giant evil that was NAFTA?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-nafta-canada-mexico-justin-trudeau-leaders-enrique-pe-a-nieto-a7705311.html

Donald Trump has revealed he backed down on pledges to scrap Nafta after calls from the leaders of Canada and Mexico.

He said that he had received calls from the two countries' leaders asking him to "renegotiate Nafta rather than terminate". It came one day after he told leaders of the two countries that he wouldn't end the trade pact, and just days after the White House said that the President was considering quitting it entirely.

Harika

Billy86 wrote: »

So... NAFTA... we all remember NAFTA right? The big giant evil that was NAFTA?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-nafta-canada-mexico-justin-trudeau-leaders-enrique-pe-a-nieto-a7705311.html

But he won, as he is now negotiating and showing his skills in crafting a new and better deal for America first.

Billy86

Harika wrote: »

But he won, as he is now negotiating and showing his skills in crafting a new and better deal for America first.

Except he didn't want to renegotiate it, one of the things his rust belt supporters liked most was that he wanted to kill it entirely/withdraw from it.

It's interesting watching the pennies slowly, slowly drop one after another with them how badly (and frankly, how easily) they were conned.

Peregrinus

Harika wrote: »

But he won, as he is now negotiating and showing his skills in crafting a new and better deal for America first.

Ah, yes. Those would be the same negotiating skills he brought to bear to win congressional acceptance for his brilliantly successful repeal-and-replacement of Obamacare!

Phonehead

Harika wrote: »

But he won, as he is now negotiating and showing his skills in crafting a new and better deal for America first.

I wouldn't really say he has a strong bargaining position with Canada, Canada is the largest market for US goods & services and the trade deficit is small ($11 billion in Canada's favour). What tips this deficit in Canada's favour is the $100billion of oil and gas that Canada exports AND which America is dependent on, to be honest I don't think Trump has any idea why there is a deficit and that's probably what Trudeau mentioned to him in their call. If Canada were to pull the plug on it's energy supplies for one day you'd see the entire Eastern and Western Seaboard of the US go dark... Imagine the economic impact of that!!! The GOP would pull the plug on Trumps Presidency in a heartbeat.

PopePalpatine

Billy86 wrote: »

Except he didn't want to renegotiate it, one of the things his rust belt supporters liked most was that he wanted to kill it entirely/withdraw from it.

It's interesting watching the pennies slowly, slowly drop one after another with them how badly (and frankly, how easily) they were conned.

I'm sure he'll distract them with some dog whistles, like the "criminal foreigner hotline".

Billy86

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm sure he'll distract them with some dog whistles, like the "criminal foreigner hotline".

Which is apparently being overrun with calls about actual aliens! :pac:

RDM_83 again

Phonehead wrote: »

If Canada were to pull the plug on it's energy supplies for one day you'd see the entire Eastern and Western Seaboard of the US go dark... Imagine the economic impact of that!!! The GOP would pull the plug on Trumps Presidency in a heartbeat.

completely and utterly false, there seems to be this idea that is always popular that consistently underestimates the USA's capacities, look up the Strategic Oil Reserve, they have more than a months oil stored by the federal government to feed normal consumption with no imports and no internal production.

As a long trend in general the USA is becoming less dependent on imported oil as time goes on.

Phonehead wrote: »

I wouldn't really say he has a strong bargaining position with Canada, Canada is the largest market for US goods & services and the trade deficit is small ($11 billion in Canada's favour).

He has an incredibly strong position, 62% of exports are to the USA, and its a simple two party negotiation, the UK is often quoted as having a weak position versus the EU yet its an economy probably 50% larger, negotiating with a group with diverse intentions and priorities and only 44% of exports go to the EU.

Phonehead

It's actually primarily crude oil, which as we both know needs to be refined before it is of any use, there is no clicking of a button and away we go.

wonderfullife

Phonehead wrote: »

I wouldn't really say he has a strong bargaining position with Canada, Canada is the largest market for US goods & services and the trade deficit is small ($11 billion in Canada's favour).

I remain convinced Donald Trump doesn't understand what a Trade Deficit actually is or how it works.

Trade Deficit's aren't even inherently or automatically a problem within themselves.

Anyway, in the genius mind of Donald, I presume he thinks Canada is robbing the US of $11 billion annually and will threaten to build a wall unless they pay before climbing down into building a trip-wire across 200 metres of the border.

Leroy42

I agree wonderlife, I think he thinks of a deficit in the same way as he thinks of tax. He is looking at from a business perspective. Tax is a cost and deficit means a loss. Therefore they are both bad.

Get rid of them both and everything improves. Says so in accounting 101.

I really think that is as far as his understanding goes

Phonehead

wonderfullife wrote: »

I remain convinced Donald Trump doesn't understand what a Trade Deficit actually is or how it works.

Trade Deficit's aren't even inherently or automatically a problem within themselves.

Anyway, in the genius mind of Donald, I presume he thinks Canada is robbing the US of $11 billion annually and will threaten to build a wall unless they pay before climbing down into building a trip-wire across 200 metres of the border.

That is a huge part of the problem!!! NAFTA has been hugely beneficial for all 3 countries, The US alone increased it's exports to Canada & Mexico by 400% because of this agreement, yet Trump for some reason thinks because Canadian lumber is cheaper than US lumber that the US got a bum deal!! He probably saw a segment on Fox & Friends discussing the plights of the lumberjack. It's a bizarre time we live in

Leroy42

So Trump, only 2 days ago was going to cancel Nafta, then he gets a call from the Pres of Mexico and the PM of Canada and he agrees to postpone and start to negotiate. He didn't give any timeline, he didn't give any redline issues, only that he has to be better. But what does that even mean? And in the meantime, the apparently terrible Nafta continues and therefore continues to cost jobs and profits for US companies.

The man is a complete failure. Seriously, how do those around him maintain any respect for him?

But from those that I have heard/read of that have worked with him, they hold him in great regard.

Kitsunegari

Interesting Flynn was re-issued a security clearance in 2016 by the Obama administration despite knowing what happened in 2015. The Democrats need to stop falling over themselves.

Igotadose

Leroy42 wrote: »

So Trump, only 2 days ago was going to cancel Nafta, then he gets a call from the Pres of Mexico and the PM of Canada and he agrees to postpone and start to negotiate. He didn't give any timeline, he didn't give any redline issues, only that he has to be better. But what does that even mean? And in the meantime, the apparently terrible Nafta continues and therefore continues to cost jobs and profits for US companies.

The man is a complete failure. Seriously, how do those around him maintain any respect for him?

But from those that I have heard/read of that have worked with him, they hold him in great regard.

Opinion piece on what's happening in the US re: the Trump administration

First line summary: "Because I was sentient 100 days ago, I’m old enough to remember a time when American presidents were expected, as a matter of course, not to have paid foreign agents among their senior staff. "

And then it goes on to just how broken this administration is, and how surreal things are now.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/04/how_frustrated_republicans_view_trump_s_first_100_days.html

Leroy42

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Interesting Flynn was re-issued a security clearance in 2016 by the Obama administration despite knowing what happened in 2015. The Democrats need to stop falling over themselves.

So wait, what? Thet should have denied him access based on only possibles?

So I assume you take the same line with Trump?

How can you possibly try to bring Obama into this?

Igotadose

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Interesting Flynn was re-issued a security clearance in 2016 by the Obama administration despite knowing what happened in 2015. The Democrats need to stop falling over themselves.

Nothingburger. (:P). It's all about the Trump admin GIVING FLYNN A CLEARANCE SO HE COULD RUN THE NSA. They did it, they own it.

I used to live in Washington state. One of the principles law enforcement follows there, I call 'You're in the ditch.' If a cop sees your vehicle in a ditch, he'll issue you a summons for driving faster than the conditions allowed. You can whine, "I was only going 40 in the 35 zone." Doesn't matter - you're in the ditch, ergo, driving faster than conditions allow.

Likewise, the Trump admin granting security clearance to Flynn, they did it, and it was W R O N G. Obama's no longer in office. Trump is. He owns this.

He's the one in the ditch.

wonderfullife

Leroy42 wrote: »

The man is a complete failure. Seriously, how do those around him maintain any respect for him?

But from those that I have heard/read of that have worked with him, they hold him in great regard.

Trump reminds me of one of those bluffers at the bar who will tell you all sorts of fanciful stories of their female conquests, epic sessions on the lash, amazing holidays and, of course, the obligatory "I had a trial with Manchester United when I was 15".

A lot of those spoofers are actually quite likeable in small doses because they're not bad intentioned, just Walter Mitty level delusional.

Igotadose wrote: »

Opinion piece on what's happening in the US re: the Trump administration

In the article above this one ^ - One of the people who voted for Trump listed 3 biggest accomplishments of Trump's Presidency so far:

1. Gorsuch to SCOTUS
2. Firing Missiles at Syria - which we all know bigly put that airfield out of action for about an hour.

and (this is golden)

3. Meeting with foreign leader, Xi Jinping.

The 3rd best achievement is apparently having chocolate cake with the leader of China.


That's what we're dealing with here. If he can tie his own shoelaces and not nuke the world, it's a success for his base.

mcmoustache

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Interesting Flynn was re-issued a security clearance in 2016 by the Obama administration despite knowing what happened in 2015. The Democrats need to stop falling over themselves.

Tell me something. Do you think Trump is doing a good job, politically?

Do you think he speaks well and coherently?

Do you think all of these russian connections are overblown or, perhaps, FAKE NEWS!!!?

Are his long holidays a sign of fatigue or is he just making deals, the best deals?

What about his deals so far?

How do you think he has changed the USA's standing in the world?

Don't worry. I don't need answers. A "But Obama..." or a "But Hillary" will suffice.

Itssoeasy

wonderfullife wrote: »

Trump reminds me of one of those bluffers at the bar who will tell you all sorts of fanciful stories of their female conquests, epic sessions on the lash, amazing holidays and, of course, the obligatory "I had a trial with Manchester United when I was 15".

A lot of those spoofers are actually quite likeable in small doses because they're not bad intentioned, just Walter Mitty level delusional.





In the article above this one ^ - One of the people who voted for Trump listed 3 biggest accomplishments of Trump's Presidency so far:

1. Gorsuch to SCOTUS
2. Firing Missiles at Syria - which we all know bigly put that airfield out of action for about an hour.

and (this is golden)

3. Meeting with foreign leader, Xi Jinping.

The 3rd best achievement is apparently having chocolate cake with the leader of China.


That's what we're dealing with here. If he can tie his own shoelaces and not nuke the world, it's a success for his base.

That's an expectation not an accomplishment. The president of the USA would be expected to meet his Chinese counterpart in 2017. You're right it's golden and a doozie. It seems if trump told his base the sky was red they'd believe him.

aloyisious

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/04/27/top-pentagon-watchdog-launches-investigation-into-money-that-mike-flynn-received-from-foreign-groups/

It may sound silly that such a simple thing as the clause that no official can accept a gift from a foreign power might trip up Flynn when the gift acceptance rule has been known about for ages. Even ministers here and in the UK have the rule about not accepting gifts personally, but of accepting them as an agent of the state making the gift state property.

InTheTrees

Flynn's problems are only getting worse. The Defense Department are investigating him as well now, they sent a letter to Flynn before he retired specifically warning him that he cannot accept payments from foreign governments without prior clearance. He ignored the warning so now his army pension is in jeopardy.

Peregrinus

wonderfullife wrote: »

In the article above this one ^ - One of the people who voted for Trump listed 3 biggest accomplishments of Trump's Presidency so far:

1. Gorsuch to SCOTUS
2. Firing Missiles at Syria - which we all know bigly put that airfield out of action for about an hour.

and (this is golden)

3. Meeting with foreign leader, Xi Jinping.

The 3rd best achievement is apparently having chocolate cake with the leader of China.

Oh, be fair. It was ""most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen". And Xi "really enjoyed it", which shows that China can't, after all, be a currency manipulator. And it was important to establish that, because who knew?

wonderfullife

Peregrinus wrote: »

Oh, be fair. It was ""most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen". And Xi "really enjoyed it", which shows that China can't, after all, be a currency manipulator. And it was important to establish that, because who knew?

Who knew granting Trump Org trademarks in China that had been withheld for years would be totally unrelated and purely coincidental to the softened stance.....

Lads it's actually mental what's going on in America now. I've no doubt in my mind that the most dangerous man in the world is currently the American President.

The fact he's also on record saying he'd bang Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter doesn't add any crumbs of comfort.

RDM_83 again

Phonehead wrote: »

It's actually primarily crude oil, which as we both know needs to be refined before it is of any use, there is no clicking of a button and away we go.

Ugh the fact I have to refute this line of reasoning as no other poster has is a good example of how this thread thread is basically just an anti-Trump circle jerk (and I view Trump the same way I view Berlusconi and Sarkozy) a poster can post stuff thats completely ludicrous and if its negative to Trump it gets a pass.

Canada imports crude to the USA, its the same stuff that is in the strategic oil reserve, people don't generally pipeline petrol

Additionally Canada is very dependent on the US buying its oil, the US buys a lot of oil from Canada yes, but its just 30-40% of its total imports*, OPEC and Russia could all scale up output extremely fast, hell the USA could just start buying from Iran.

Canada would be hit so much harder from any action like this its not even funny, if in a fit of insanity J. Trudeau managed to get the oil shut off to the USA I don't think its that sure that you wouldn't see Alberta leaving the Confederation, Trudeau senior left a toxic legacy there for much more minor oil related stuff when he served.

Anyway its complete unlikely this happening, J Trudeau is very much in favour of keeping the oil flowing south, its only a few months ago he was approving pipelines like Keystone XL, this is a good example of how a lot of modern Left-Liberal politics is just about image - Trump for Keystone XL = Outrage! The Environment ! Terrible!
Trudeau for Keystone XL = Gets a pass, look at how dreamy he is and his latest thing on Feminism or Yoga


*https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbblpd_a.htm

CMOTDibbler

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Ugh the fact I have to refute this line of reasoning as no other poster has is a good example of how this thread thread is basically just an anti-Trump circle jerk (and I view Trump the same way I view Berlusconi and Sarkozy) a poster can post stuff thats completely ludicrous and if its negative to Trump it gets a pass.

Canada imports crude to the USA, its the same stuff that is in the strategic oil reserve, people don't generally pipeline petrol

Additionally Canada is very dependent on the US buying its oil, the US buys a lot of oil from Canada yes, but its just 30-40% of its total imports*, OPEC and Russia could all scale up output extremely fast, hell the USA could just start buying from Iran.

Canada would be hit so much harder from any action like this its not even funny, if in a fit of insanity J. Trudeau managed to get the oil shut off to the USA I don't think its that sure that you wouldn't see Alberta leaving the Confederation, Trudeau senior left a toxic legacy there for much more minor oil related stuff when he served.

Anyway its complete unlikely this happening, J Trudeau is very much in favour of keeping the oil flowing south, its only a few months ago he was approving pipelines like Keystone XL, this is a good example of how a lot of modern Left-Liberal politics is just about image - Trump for Keystone XL = Outrage! The Environment ! Terrible!
Trudeau for Keystone XL = Gets a pass, look at how dreamy he is and his latest thing on Feminism or Yoga


*https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbblpd_a.htm

If the US could just as easily buy from Russia or Iran, is it not just as easy for Canada to export elsewhere?

It suits both countries to have that trade. Canada and the US share a border and can pipe the oil through. Anything else adds a much bigger transport cost.

Edit: Also the environmental impact of KXL is on the US side of the border. The Canadian leg is relatively much shorter and parallels the existing Phase 3b and is far shorter than it. From a Canadian persspective, it's potentially a much better alternative. Hard to understand how they'd object to that or to the US leg which is none of their business anyway.

Really Interested

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

If the US could just as easily buy from Russia or Iran, is it not just as easy for Canada to export elsewhere?

It suits both countries to have that trade. Canada and the US share a border and can pipe the oil through. Anything else adds a much bigger transport cost.

Edit: Also the environmental impact of KXL is on the US side of the border. The Canadian leg is relatively much shorter and parallels the existing Phase 3b and is far shorter than it. From a Canadian persspective, it's potentially a much better alternative. Hard to understand how they'd object to that or to the US leg which is none of their business anyway.

https://www.google.ie/amp/business.financialpost.com/news/energy/atlantic-canadian-oil-headed-to-china-for-the-first-time-amid-opec-cuts/amp

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4083723

It must be remembered also that for costs reasons Canada imports oil from the USA.


Trade goes both ways post Brexit and Trump some people forget that.

U.S. goods and services trade with Canada totaled an estimated $662.7 billion in 2015. Exports were $337.3 billion; imports were $325.4 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade surplus with Canada was $11.9 billion in 2015.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada

I would accept a trade war will effect Canada more than USA but seeing how when Trump has reality explained he changes tack I would doubt there will be much change in relations.

While I am no fan of Trump, I do see one positive trait, when he is shown the error of his stupid ideas, knowing that his support is Luke glue he can do what few politicians can and that's turn faster than an unpaid hooker.